[HN Gopher] The Hofmann Wobble: Wikipedia and the problem of his...
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       The Hofmann Wobble: Wikipedia and the problem of historical memory
        
       Author : pepys
       Score  : 27 points
       Date   : 2023-12-21 21:02 UTC (2 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (harpers.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (harpers.org)
        
       | bawolff wrote:
       | I find the writing style of pieces like this insufferable. Tell
       | us the point you are trying to make!
       | 
       | I read the whole thing (albeit i did skim parts), and i really
       | don't know what point that the author is trying to make. That it
       | is possible to use sock puppets on wikipedia to try to manipulate
       | wikipedia? Yes, to a certain extent, but also not as much as
       | people often imagine it is.
        
         | trompe-le-monde wrote:
         | It's a piece of short fiction written like a straightforward
         | account of one fellow's history manipulating Wikipedia, which I
         | suppose is easy to miss if you aren't familiar with the sort of
         | stuff that Harper's tends to put out (which admittedly is
         | sometimes insufferable). I think anybody looking for practical
         | or technical insights in the piece will probably come up short,
         | but I was impressed by its thematic depth w/r/t truth, personal
         | integrity, etc.
        
         | pvg wrote:
         | Whatever the merits of the piece, the purpose of writing can be
         | something beside the delivery of 'points'. It's perfectly fine
         | if you don't like that but there's not much conversation to be
         | had about the fact that you don't.
        
           | bawolff wrote:
           | Sure, but i don't think it really has anything interesting to
           | say thematically either.
        
           | anigbrowl wrote:
           | The thing is the title is making an argument, but then the
           | reader is subjected to a long meandering personal discourse.
           | OK if you're on a long journey and want to be diverted,
           | deeply annoying if you are sufficiently interested by the
           | headline to want to engage with the argument. I used to
           | admire this style of writing but as I've gotten older I have
           | less patience with it; I'd rather just read a novel.
        
         | mock-possum wrote:
         | It's a very particular style of prose so I can see why you
         | might have a strong negative reaction, but - honestly I have
         | the opposite reaction.
         | 
         | The narrator doesn't sound like a man whose morals I much
         | respect - but the way the story is written is playful, all the
         | little loops of foreshadowing and callback are fun; it reminds
         | me a bit of Neal Stephenson, on the edge of trying too hard to
         | be smart while also affecting mock humility - but winking at
         | the audience the whole time. " _you're_ clever enough to be in
         | on the joke," it reassures you.
         | 
         | I think rather than seeing that style as an obstacle to the
         | point being made, the style _is_ part of the point. It's a mode
         | of storytelling to be enjoyed. (Or not, in your case.) The
         | point is that the narrator is this wonderful character who is
         | smarter than his surroundings and he gets up to mischief, the
         | consequences of which echo farther than you might expect. Is
         | one man truly responsible for shaping the way an entire
         | generation thinks, by careful manipulation of Wikipedia? Could
         | you well have done the same, if you were the right man, at the
         | right time and place? Would you?
        
           | bawolff wrote:
           | Perhaps my issue is i find the premise unbelievable and lose
           | suspension of disbelief, which makes me annoyed with the rest
           | of the story.
           | 
           | People try to manipulate wikipedia in this fashion every day.
           | Many of those who do are much much more sophisticated than
           | the protagonist in this story and the story doesn't take into
           | account the checks & balances to prevent this sort of thing.
           | Perhaps that's just the conceit for the story and we are
           | supposed to accept it so that the rest of the story can take
           | place. However stories about individuals getting ultimate
           | power and then struggling with the moral implications of that
           | are a dime a dozen. The only unique thing about this story is
           | the premise, which i find obnoxiously simplified.
        
             | pvg wrote:
             | Careful, you keep adding this sort of detail and maybe take
             | out some of the bombast ('insufferable', 'obnoxiously') and
             | next thing you know, you'd end up with a perfectly
             | reasonable personal critique of this thing!
        
             | resolutebat wrote:
             | The story is set in the early days of Wikipedia, when
             | awareness of its power and restraints on manipulation were
             | much weaker.
             | 
             | As a wiki admin myself, what I found unbelievable is the
             | length to which they supposedly went to maintain the
             | subterfuge. Most sock puppets and PR flacks are glaringly
             | obvious.
        
         | starkparker wrote:
         | Maybe you can run it through ChatGPT for a summary.
        
         | RecycledEle wrote:
         | Exactly!
         | 
         | This article should be entered in an Obfuscated Programming
         | contest.
         | 
         | Why submit an article about a nasty break-up to HN?
        
       | joemazerino wrote:
       | Great writing.
        
       | angelsbrood wrote:
       | Banger
        
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       (page generated 2023-12-23 23:02 UTC)