[HN Gopher] Microsoft ending support for Windows 10 could send 2...
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       Microsoft ending support for Windows 10 could send 240M PCs to
       landfills
        
       Author : cpeterso
       Score  : 32 points
       Date   : 2023-12-22 18:26 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.reuters.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.reuters.com)
        
       | ewweezdsd wrote:
       | Alternatively people could just install some beginner-friendly
       | Linux distro, and enjoy a much better desktop experience without
       | ads and bloat.
        
         | wkat4242 wrote:
         | Yeah as if. You know bit going to happen. They could just as
         | easily install windows 11 because the limitations are easily
         | bypassed and purely commercially motivated.
        
         | lemoncookiechip wrote:
         | I'll probably get downvoted for this, if not push-back, but.
         | Linux is great for customization, and freedom of expression,
         | but it's also not so great if you don't like troubleshooting
         | every time you want to use some new software or when something
         | updates and breaks your system.
         | 
         | Obviously not all Distros are the same and some are more
         | reliable than others, but my experience with Linux is just many
         | hours of troubleshooting why XYZ doesn't work out of the box,
         | granted this has gotten better over the years, but I dunno if a
         | non-tech-savvy user would be able to fix these problems (if
         | they occur) without calling me every month.
        
           | squigz wrote:
           | Personally, I have more issues with Windows than I do with
           | Linux. Granted, I know how to troubleshoot either OS, but the
           | implication Windows doesn't have issues is... confusing to
           | me.
           | 
           | I am curious when your last experience with Linux was, and
           | with what distro(s)? As you say, the general Linux experience
           | has gotten better over the years, to the point where I think
           | a non-tech-savvy user would have the same issues on Ubuntu as
           | they do on Windows - which is to say issues they'd have on
           | any OS, because they're not savvy :P
           | 
           | > I'll probably get downvoted for this, if not push-back
           | 
           | Nothing wrong with "push-back"; I'd hope you'd be happy to
           | hear opposing views
        
             | tmtvl wrote:
             | This very week I had major issues with both: on my
             | roommate's W11 laptop all her pictures were deleted after I
             | removed them from her OneDrive because she had gotten a
             | warning that her OD was nearly full (so stupid, why try to
             | sync files from a 1TB SSD to a 5GB OD? It's batshit).
             | 
             | The next day I installed OpenSUSE on my PC and couldn't
             | connect to the internet. Eventually I found out that the
             | problem is that the rndis module is blacklisted and AOSP
             | can't use CDC ethernet*, and I can only connect to my
             | internet by using USB tethering with my smartphone.
             | 
             | * <https://jordemort.dev/blog/why-android-cant-use-cdc-
             | ethernet...>
        
           | Barrin92 wrote:
           | >when something updates and breaks your system
           | 
           | I don't think an update on a Ubuntu LTS release in like 15
           | years has ever broken the system. Don't install arch on your
           | grandmothers laptop.
           | 
           | As for apps, yes there's an uncanney valley to it where mid-
           | level users, like say gamers, will run into more problems on
           | linux, but most people these days live in Chrome. My 60 year
           | old parents happily browse away on linux. It's functionally a
           | chromebook for them. Exactly the use case OP was talking
           | about. Old laptops that they'd have thrown away are snappy
           | again.
        
             | faeriechangling wrote:
             | Even the Linux games situation is changing a lot. If I can
             | run 90% of games jut fine on Linux, I'm going to be
             | inclined to use Linux and 90% of games on the market,
             | rather than Windows and 100%.
             | 
             | I see new awesome software being released on Linux first
             | every year. Every cool Windows software project I can even
             | name started maybe 10 or 30 years ago. The amount of
             | development dollars going to Android gaming has long since
             | surpassed the dollars going to Windows gaming, and the
             | revenue is already in Android's favour, but there are still
             | more quality games on Windows. That will flip one day and
             | when it does things like Proton will make more and more
             | sense.
             | 
             | For me, Linux feels like the future as flawed as it is,
             | while Windows feels like the past. The only way Microsoft
             | could possibly save Windows at this point would be to open
             | source it and rescind their monopoly to it and adopt the
             | Red Hat business model, and that might not be enough, and I
             | don't see it happening.
        
           | ttt3ts wrote:
           | Windows UI has gotten considerably worse for casual users who
           | just want a web browser. There are so many ads and pop ups in
           | the OS now.
           | 
           | I installed Ubuntu on my grandma's machine after she
           | installed malware on her windows machine. I get less
           | questions because it doesn't update with "features"
           | constantly.
        
             | rootsudo wrote:
             | You're conflating UI and UX. People don't care. There are
             | ads on the internet, why aren't there ads in the os?
             | 
             | 99% of people can't tell what an ad is. Is a trial software
             | an ad? Is a shortcut on the start menu an ad?
             | 
             | People want a bmw, they don't care that heated seats are
             | now a subscription service. People use YouTube, they see
             | ads as part of the entertainment.
             | 
             | For majority of people, they don't know there's better so
             | they don't care.
        
           | faeriechangling wrote:
           | What I'm seeing is the most popular Linux distro,
           | ChromeOS/ChromeOS Flex, absolutely demolishing Windows
           | marketshare.
           | 
           | It also has even worse support than Windows.
           | 
           | I think most modern users don't care about their operating
           | system anymore because the browser is the operating system
           | 90% of the time. Which I suppose why it's a shame Windows 10
           | is seeing end of support because it's really, for 90% of
           | users, just as good as Windows 11.
        
           | 999900000999 wrote:
           | Even if your an experienced software engineer, Linux makes
           | somethings impossible.
           | 
           | Want to play some Call of Duty or The Finals, nope anti cheat
           | only works on Windows.
           | 
           | I'd probably tell most people to just buy a Mac if they don't
           | want to play games. I like Linux personally, but I don't find
           | myself using it as a desktop OS unless I want to tinker with
           | something.
           | 
           | I do find Linux great for programming through, no temptation
           | to jump into a game.
        
         | absrec wrote:
         | A very feasible option for the casual user as most software has
         | moved to the web. Few years ago a casual user would have major
         | concerns about office suites but now with office365 and the
         | whole google docs/slides/sheets offerings a browser is all you
         | need.
        
       | ralph84 wrote:
       | I lost track of how many times the article uses the words "could"
       | or "potentially".
        
         | deafpolygon wrote:
         | Would it make a suitable drinking game?
        
           | jzombie wrote:
           | Could potentially.
        
       | gumballindie wrote:
       | > Microsoft aims to discontinue support for Windows 10 by October
       | 2025. The next generation of the OS, anticipated to bring
       | advanced artificial intelligence technology to PCs, could
       | potentially boost the sluggish PC market.
       | 
       | Planned obsolesce so they can push ai, a cancer of the software
       | world.
        
         | rany_ wrote:
         | It's not even on device AI, so that's really no excuse.
        
           | jzombie wrote:
           | I think nano LLMs are the next trendy thing, but I agree with
           | your sentiment.
        
       | theropost wrote:
       | Windows releases should have some regulatory review to determine
       | if it is actually a valuable upgrade, that results in
       | productivity gains, etc. It seems Windows it just forcing
       | upgrades through monopolization of their desktop product at this
       | point.
        
         | akagusu wrote:
         | Forcing upgrades through monopolization of PC market is exactly
         | what Microsoft has been doing since forever.
        
       | blibble wrote:
       | 240 million new potential sales of Windows licenses...
        
       | tmtvl wrote:
       | How about we round up the MS board of directors and give them
       | each one lash for every computer available sold the last 5 years
       | which supports W10 but doesn't support W11? We could also gather
       | their immediate families and lop off their hands and feet, but
       | that'd be a bit cruel.
        
         | crest wrote:
         | Tie them to four stakes hammered into the ground and start
         | stacking such computers on top of them until they understand
         | that a TPM isn't required to run an operating system?
        
       | jiggawatts wrote:
       | Everyone here is ignoring that Windows 10 was released in 2015
       | and security update support will end in 2028 -- that's thirteen
       | years of support!
       | 
       | Sure, sure, hardware _can_ last longer than that, but would be
       | hilariously outdated by that point.
       | 
       | For industrial and special-purpose usage such as kiosks or
       | embedded controllers there is the Long-Term Servicing Channel,
       | which will have extended security updates until 2029:
       | https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/products/windows...
       | 
       | For comparison, there aren't any other mainstream operating
       | systems with even vaguely comparable support longevity.
       | 
       | Everyone here advising people to install Ubuntu should look at
       | its support lifecycle table: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases
       | 
       | The version released in 2015 is already in extended support and
       | will reach EoL in April 2024, just months from now.
       | 
       | I doubt it'll be a smooth experience installing a 2028 or 2029
       | version of Ubuntu on a PC made in 2015 or even earlier!
        
         | bombcar wrote:
         | It's not when the first one was sold, it's when the _last_ one
         | was.
        
         | kevincox wrote:
         | I think the bigger issue isn't so much that they are dropping
         | support for 10 but that 11 has seemingly unnecessary
         | requirements that block it from working on modern systems.
        
         | popcalc wrote:
         | >Everyone here is ignoring that Windows 10 was released in 2015
         | and security update support will end in 2028 -- that's thirteen
         | years of support!
         | 
         | >Sure, sure, hardware can last longer than that, but would be
         | hilariously outdated by that point.
         | 
         | The $500 gaming PC I built in 2015 still runs mainstream games
         | and has zero problem with running Office suite or any task a
         | normal person would require.
        
       | DrNosferatu wrote:
       | It will be the year of the Linux desktop!
        
       | ptek wrote:
       | Send them to developing nations with windows XP and office XP?!
       | 
       | As long as people learn the basics with them, VBA scripting in
       | Excel, Basic HTML and Javscript Design and the most important
       | Spider Solitaire.
        
       | scohesc wrote:
       | Absolutely disgusting that Microsoft and all these silicon valley
       | companies preach that they're green, eco-friendly, safe for the
       | world, etc. - but when push comes to shove if they want to push
       | changes that make millions of computers obsolete to make a quick
       | buck, they will.
       | 
       | You don't need a TPM to run an operating system. You need a TPM
       | to enable Microsoft to lock down your operating system more and
       | more into their walled garden ecosystem under the guise and
       | excuse of "security".
       | 
       | All this e-waste because Microsoft says so... Didn't they get
       | their feet held to the fire for anti-trust reasons? Maybe it
       | needs to happen again along with all the other silicon valley
       | companies.
        
       | kova12 wrote:
       | Can I have some of these PCs? I have no problem running Ubuntu on
       | them, just send me.
        
         | jzombie wrote:
         | Indeed. A landfill is the worst possible solution for this.
        
       | add-sub-mul-div wrote:
       | Are the people running machines after EOL aware of the official
       | EOL date, or even necessarily that there is one? Ridiculous idea,
       | that people will just march out to the dumps with their still
       | functioning computers.
        
         | FirmwareBurner wrote:
         | No, obviously people aren't gonna throw away their PCs after
         | next year just because Win 10 won't get any more updates, the
         | same way how they don't immediately throw away their Macs and
         | Androids that stopped getting SW updates. People are just
         | throwing hissy fits over nothing burgers.
         | 
         | I wish editorialized click-bait garbage articles like this
         | would stop ending up on HN frontpage. If I had a cookie for
         | every FUD Windows 10 EOL article on HN frontpage I'd be
         | diabetic already.
        
         | cyanydeez wrote:
         | well, normally, one could upgrade windows but w they're
         | artificially gatekeeping hardware upgrades so, it's not exactly
         | hyperbole. also, business doesn't Play around.
        
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       (page generated 2023-12-22 23:02 UTC)