[HN Gopher] A structured note-taking app for personal use
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       A structured note-taking app for personal use
        
       Author : 0xyz
       Score  : 197 points
       Date   : 2023-12-22 04:36 UTC (18 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (github.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (github.com)
        
       | gnatolf wrote:
       | This looks robust and the example project works fine.
       | 
       | I am low-key into these type of apps. Similar enough to Google
       | Keep, with more privacy and (potentially, didn't really check)
       | E2E encryption.
       | 
       | Sharing and cooperating notes with others is a must-have, but
       | it's unclear if there are any plans.
        
         | eternityforest wrote:
         | I'm super into these apps too, but I have had less interest
         | since trying keep.
         | 
         | Nobody else really comes close, at least not in the FOSS space,
         | but hopefully one of these days someone will!
        
         | 0xyz wrote:
         | Of course, the development of the sharing feature is in
         | planning
        
       | Yodel0914 wrote:
       | This looks pretty nice.
       | 
       | In the same space, personally, I'm a huge fan of Joplin. Apps for
       | every platform I care about, and the ability to self-host the
       | server component (which is what I do). I has some really nice
       | features, like import/export of directories of markdown files,
       | and sharing notebooks with other users.
        
         | Ringz wrote:
         | Since Joplin's developer decided to put all Markdown files into
         | a database and thus give up all the advantages of a flat file
         | system, I have uninstalled Joplin. In my view, the last
         | discussion in Joplin's forum on this topic further discredited
         | the developer.
        
           | burnished wrote:
           | That seems an odd take given the content of the discussion:
           | https://discourse.joplinapp.org/t/why-im-leaving-joplin-
           | for-... Especially since it looks like a solution via plugin
           | was identified?
           | 
           | Thanks for bringing it up though, I went for spicy programmer
           | drama but instead found a somewhat interesting and incredibly
           | polite disagreement. I am curious about what happened that
           | they have such a solid opinion about acceptable use of file
           | metadata.
        
             | MezzoDelCammin wrote:
             | Thanks for bringing this one up. It's almost strange to see
             | a civilized discussion about something that clearly
             | polarizes a lot of people in the thread. Makes me wonder
             | exactly what kind of social dynamic results in a bunch of
             | people actually talking through their differences, instead
             | of the these days usual trench warfare...
        
             | fauigerzigerk wrote:
             | _> incredibly polite disagreement_
             | 
             | Not sure I agree. Here's one comment by the developer
             | (laurent):
             | 
             |  _" Ok, there's so much wrong in what you write about that
             | it's hard to know where to start. I guess it would help if
             | you had a clue about what you're talking about."_
             | 
             | https://discourse.joplinapp.org/t/why-im-leaving-joplin-
             | for-...
        
               | wiseowise wrote:
               | Ouch.
        
               | laurent123456 wrote:
               | I'm not proud of that answer but to be fair there are
               | also more balanced views in this thread. It's also an old
               | thread and some of what's in there is no longer relevant.
               | For example someone recently created a prototype of the
               | app that saves the notes to disk, and although we can't
               | merge his work as it is, we plan to investigate and see
               | whether it can be somehow integrated.
               | 
               | It's one of these features that, all things being equal,
               | we'd rather have than not have, but it's obviously not
               | trivial to add it when the app wasn't originally designed
               | for it.
        
               | fauigerzigerk wrote:
               | I completely understand. It wasn't my intention to blow
               | this out of proportion. It's a single expression of
               | frustration that every developer can relate to.
        
               | burnished wrote:
               | Sure - but it is a departure in tone and sandwiched by
               | more normal and productive comments (from that dev). It
               | isnt ideal but it is also a pretty normal and minor human
               | mistake (growing frustrated and then short to be
               | specific).
               | 
               | And the previous comments were claiming that this
               | project's data was 'proprietary' and not 'open' and the
               | situation was inexcusable, basically because they assumed
               | a database was this big scary thing (as opposed to an
               | open book). That is a frustrating experience, and yeah
               | maybe indicates that the person telling you how to write
               | software doesn't know what they are talking about (for
               | the folks following along at home, those frivolous cries
               | of foul play were distracting from the real need they had
               | for plain text over a database, someone else describes it
               | quite succinctly a little later)
        
               | fauigerzigerk wrote:
               | Sure, it's no big deal and it's completely
               | understandable. I just wouldn't characterise it as
               | "incredibly polite".
               | 
               | I think file system vs database storage is very much
               | about trade-offs. Unfortunately the debate descends too
               | quickly into who is right and who is wrong.
               | 
               | It's always difficult for developers to talk to users who
               | often really don't know what they are talking about. I
               | know that very well.
               | 
               | The only thing you can do as a developer (if you have
               | time and patience) is to translate what users say into
               | the closest thing that does make sense in terms of trade-
               | offs.
               | 
               | But nobody is always patient.
        
               | darkwater wrote:
               | I applause Laurent's answer. I'm so tired of self-
               | entitled users that don't contribute anything and have no
               | skin in the game and just complain "this should be done
               | as I say because I'm smart". Yes, obviously sometimes
               | maintainer can get something bad and a better solution is
               | easily available, but as app complexity goes up, it's
               | unfair (to not say naive or a worse word) for users
               | assume that developers are clueless and hadn't thought
               | about the problem space before taking the design
               | decision.
        
           | tovej wrote:
           | Well, if what you need is a flat file system, the json-as-
           | database approach that penx is taking isn't really an
           | improvement.
           | 
           | I'm interested in what advantages you have lost. Joplin
           | allows you to export your entire notebook as a directory of
           | markdown files (with front matter), and from a performance,
           | reliability, and replication perspective, a database seems
           | like a much better choice.
        
             | Ringz wrote:
             | I won a lot and didn't lose anything. Obsidian plus a few
             | plugins beats Joplin on every level. And I can edit all
             | notes without redundancy by exporting from a Joplin
             | database with nvim, iA Writer, find, grep, cat and millions
             | of other tools.
        
               | PurpleRamen wrote:
               | > Obsidian plus a few plugins beats Joplin on every
               | level.
               | 
               | Not really. Obsidian has its shares of problems too, and
               | most of them originate from using Markdown. Markdown is a
               | freeform text-format, and works very well for writing
               | text, but it really sucks for data and structured
               | content. Most plugins and features in that area are very
               | brittle and overspecialized, working only well enough in
               | their specific use case. And gosh, Obsidian has really a
               | huge amount of plugins for data-handling. At some point,
               | it was so bad that there were multiple competing task-
               | plugins which broke each other just because they had
               | different formatting for dates.
        
               | rubslopes wrote:
               | > And gosh, Obsidian has really a huge amount of plugins
               | for data-handling. At some point, it was so bad that
               | there were multiple competing task-plugins which broke
               | each other just because they had different formatting for
               | dates.
               | 
               | Depends on how you see it. I think it's great that they
               | have a free market of open-sourced plug-ins that you can
               | donate to. I'm actually impressed of how rarely they
               | break each other.
        
               | Ringz wrote:
               | Agree! See my next comment.
        
               | Ringz wrote:
               | > Not really. Obsidian has its shares of problems too,
               | and most of them originate from using Markdown.
               | 
               | Aha. Which problems do you mean?
               | 
               | > Markdown is a freeform text-format, and works very well
               | for writing text, but it really sucks for data and
               | structured content.
               | 
               | Joplin is using md to. And if Joplin does a good job on
               | "data" and "structured content" (whatever you mean by
               | that) by separating that in their DB, it's a big NO for
               | me since it's a closed silo.
               | 
               | This: https://github.com/blacksmithgu/obsidian-dataview
               | works so wonderful for me, and it never breaks anything
               | in my simple md files.
               | 
               | > Most plugins and features in that area are very brittle
               | and overspecialized, working only well enough in their
               | specific use case.
               | 
               | Aha. I don't think so. Which authority says that? And
               | even if It's like that, my markdown files would survive
               | everything, since they are a) in git.
               | https://github.com/denolehov/obsidian-git and b) easy to
               | fix since it's a text file. Gosh!
               | 
               | > And gosh, Obsidian has really a huge amount of plugins
               | for data-handling.
               | 
               | And gosh, this is a good thing!
               | 
               | > At some point, it was so bad that there were multiple
               | competing task-plugins which broke each other just
               | because they had different formatting for dates.
               | 
               | Installing multiple task plugins shows that something is
               | "broke" on the user side. It's not the fault of Markdown
               | or Obsidian.
               | 
               | Just have a look on: https://github.com/ivan-
               | lednev/obsidian-day-planner but you dont need a fancy
               | task plugin like this, if you know your way around
               | https://github.com/blacksmithgu/obsidian-dataview or
               | https://github.com/obsidian-tasks-group/obsidian-tasks
               | 
               | Since the Ecosystem around Obsidian and pure Markdown,
               | most of the time I stay in my browser
               | https://github.com/deathau/markdownload and nvim
               | https://github.com/epwalsh/obsidian.nvim
        
               | PurpleRamen wrote:
               | > Joplin is using md to.
               | 
               | The way it's handled can make the difference in control.
               | 
               | > by separating that in their DB, it's a big NO for me
               | since it's a closed silo.
               | 
               | Joplin is using a popular open database with a healthy
               | community and good tooling. It's as open as markdown.
               | Maybe not for you, when you lack the knowledge, but
               | markdown is similar closed for anyone not understanding
               | filesystems and editors.
               | 
               | > This: https://github.com/blacksmithgu/obsidian-dataview
               | works so wonderful for me
               | 
               | Good for you, but that is very low level in terms of
               | data-handling. Dataview is really just an elaborated
               | search, there is no good level of interaction. Datacore,
               | the next project of the Dataview is supposed to bring
               | this, but it's not even usable yet AFAIK. Coincidental,
               | the Obsidian-devs are also working on that front, but
               | nothing is finished yet.
               | 
               | > https://github.com/denolehov/obsidian-git and b) easy
               | to fix since it's a text file. Gosh!
               | 
               | That's useless when the app itself is not working. And
               | even worse if you are not realizing the errors early.
               | 
               | > Aha. I don't think so. Which authority says that?
               | 
               | My own experience. I've tested enough plugins over the
               | years to know their dark corners.
               | 
               | > And even if It's like that, my markdown files would
               | survive everything
               | 
               | The thing is, technically you are not even having proper
               | markdown, but a fork with some extensions of Obsidian. So
               | some features of your parts might break when switching
               | away from Obsidian. And the reason for all this is also
               | because markdown is lacking definitions for what
               | obsidian-people are doing with it. Coincidentally, this
               | seems also one of the reasons why Joplin is using a
               | database.
               | 
               | > And gosh, this is a good thing!
               | 
               | Not if they all suck.
               | 
               | > Installing multiple task plugins shows that something
               | is "broke" on the user side.
               | 
               | Sure, because the plugins are lacking features, its the
               | users fault... Maybe some users have just very different
               | levels of requirements from you.
        
           | eviks wrote:
           | The linked discussion also lists some huge limitations of the
           | flat markdown file system, how did he discredit himself?
        
             | jauntywundrkind wrote:
             | I loved the TinaCMS blog post on how they still use flat
             | files as their source of truth, but have a level.js
             | database that powers a bunch of their functionality.
             | https://tina.io/blog/Tina-CMS--Leveljs/
             | 
             | You can blow up the db & regenerate it very quickly. All
             | the data is still flat files. But the advanced functions
             | harvest & are derived from the source of truth. Seems like
             | a perfect compromise.
             | 
             | I haven't done it yet but I have a git-auto-cimmit project
             | I intend to use with logseq, that'll help me better keep a
             | record of changes over time. That ability to have a flat
             | file source of truth feels hugely hugely empowering to me,
             | and I have a hard time imagining having anything else.
        
       | midtake wrote:
       | The issue for me is that I don't want to run another web service
       | just to take personal notes. I'll likely keep using Obsidian
       | until I can find something else that is self-managed and "flat".
        
         | 0xyz wrote:
         | Currently, you can install it as a PWA app. when the web
         | version is stable, I will develop a desktop app.
        
           | atoav wrote:
           | In which format are the notes stored? Many of us have been
           | bitten by vendor lock in before, so we prefer our notes tobe
           | in simple human readable formats that can also be read in 30
           | years when your app (more likely than not) doesn't exist
           | anymore.
        
             | uxp8u61q wrote:
             | If you expect that your notes will still be valuable in 30
             | years, then you should probably migrate them to something
             | other than a quick note taking app. If everything I wrote
             | into onenote before eg last year disappeared right now, I
             | wouldn't lose much sleep.
        
               | atoav wrote:
               | Why would I do that? I use only apps that use text files
               | anyways. I am pretty confident I will be able to open
               | them in 30 years.
        
               | Sakos wrote:
               | I even have files from 20+ years ago that I can open just
               | fine, including notes.
               | 
               | If you use something proprietary, then yeah, it might be
               | difficult. But that doesn't stop us from asking whether
               | something we're interested in using now uses data formats
               | that would be easily readable in 20-30 years.
        
               | atoav wrote:
               | Exactly my point, then.
        
               | Sakos wrote:
               | I agree with you, I'm largely confused by the one who
               | replied to you before.
        
               | uxp8u61q wrote:
               | My point is that I sincerely doubt that these notes will
               | have any usefulness in 30 years.
        
               | atoav wrote:
               | Depends on which notes you take. I still have academic
               | notes from 15 years ago that are useful.
        
               | uxp8u61q wrote:
               | I'm an academic. Any kind of note that I didn't migrate
               | to a durable support from more than a year ago is
               | basically gone.
        
               | filchermcurr wrote:
               | Situational, I suppose. I still have an active project
               | that's not quite 30 years old (it's mid-20's) that I
               | reference old notes for all the time.
               | 
               | Actually... I reference a lot of notes from at least 20
               | years ago. There is a lot that doesn't change, you
               | forget, and is an instantaneous search away. I don't
               | foresee this changing in the interim 10 years.
        
               | FalconSensei wrote:
               | If you are making notes about your life, memories, etc,
               | you might want to revisit them years in the future, and
               | not tomorrow
        
             | eviks wrote:
             | It's not a human readable format outside of simplistically
             | formatted text, but even then the vendor locking is solved
             | via exporting to that simplistic format so that you can
             | easily do that when the app dies and you need to move to
             | another one, no need for every app to suffer the
             | limitations by choosing that as its internal data format
        
         | adhamsalama wrote:
         | Try SiYuan Note.
         | 
         | It's a free and open source local-first of Notion+ Obsidian.
         | 
         | https://github.com/siyuan-note/siyuan
        
       | replygirl wrote:
       | i wouldn't call completely broken on mobile a beta
        
         | happytiger wrote:
         | Yea it's pretty broke.
        
         | 0xyz wrote:
         | Sorry, It's not stable yet,but I am working on it
        
       | cjbprime wrote:
       | FWIW I need a Kanban board view from a note-taking app, am using
       | extensions which add one to Obsidian and vscode.
        
         | 0xyz wrote:
         | I am working on the Kanban view now
        
         | nivertech wrote:
         | What are your typical workflow when you use Kanban extension in
         | Obsidian vs the one in VSCode?
         | 
         | Do you use the former to manager personal tasks, while the
         | latter for coding tasks?
        
           | cjbprime wrote:
           | It's actually just that I'm in the process of moving from
           | Obsidian to vscode in general. (Lack of a mobile version of
           | vscode is a problem though!)
        
             | nivertech wrote:
             | Before finally settling on Obsidian I tried Foam extension
             | for VSCode.
             | 
             | I thought Foam would be great, b/c I already wrote lots of
             | Markdown in VSCode, but Obsidian was much better for me.
        
         | rubymamis wrote:
         | I'm working on a new block editor that will have Kanban board
         | supprt within your note[1].
         | 
         | I already made a Kanban board for my previous note-taking app
         | but it's in a different view[2][3].
         | 
         | [1] https://www.get-plume.com/
         | 
         | [2] https://rubymamistvalove.com/notes/kanban.mp4
         | 
         | [3] https://www.get-notes.com/
        
         | tovej wrote:
         | Joplin's kanban plugin is quite nice:
         | 
         | https://github.com/joplin/plugin-kanban
        
       | saint11 wrote:
       | This has definitely caught my attention. The fact that it's a web
       | app that allows me to self-host it makes this a strong contender
       | against Obsidian. Looks great too!
        
       | astound473 wrote:
       | This looks really similar to Logseq, are the notable differences?
        
       | simonbw wrote:
       | For me it seems like the _Previous Day_ and _Next Day_ buttons
       | have an off-by-one error. _Next day_ keeps me on the same day and
       | _Previous Day_ takes me back _2_ days.
        
         | dathos wrote:
         | It's even worse for me, already the first load is full of UI
         | errors.
         | 
         | - The splash screen asking me to install as PWA or to go to the
         | web app is not hiding the app. Overlapping the text and
         | confusing me - The buttons for the days don't work - The
         | calendar selector is not working either
        
         | nesarkvechnep wrote:
         | Welcome to Node! This is one of the least buggy "apps".
        
       | zero0529 wrote:
       | Does it keep my folder structure and files as plain md? This is
       | the biggest reason I still use obsidian. There is no vendor
       | locking.
        
       | vunderba wrote:
       | Nice going. I've gone through quite the list of note taking tools
       | from a bunch of unorganized text files, to Microsoft OneNote, to
       | Evernote before it became a total pile of molten garbage, Logseq,
       | and finally settled on Obsidian.
       | 
       | There's a healthy ecosystem of plug-ins, searching is highly
       | performant, all of my files are just structured in folders as
       | markdown files so there's zero vendor lock-in, has a very good
       | mobile app, and I use git for easy sync / versioning.
       | 
       | The only downside is that it's not open source.
        
         | szszrk wrote:
         | What you disliked about Logseq? Are you good at self-organizing
         | (were you before)?
         | 
         | While the initial experience is super confusing and I barely
         | knew what that tool is supposed to do, later on it turned out
         | to be the first tool that helped me keep some structure in my
         | notes.
         | 
         | I love note taking but I'm horrible at it, chaotic and
         | inconsistent. Daily notes plus the way logseq easily links
         | articles gave me some decent notes. I even left those to my
         | colleagues when I switched jobs and even plain markdown files
         | were useful for them.
        
           | bayindirh wrote:
           | Logseq is "Everything plus the kitchen sink" when compared to
           | Obsidian out of the box.
           | 
           | For me, I already have a daily planning and project
           | management tool, and it's called Pagico. What I needed is a
           | note taking application. Simple, down to earth, knowledge
           | base. A successor to Zim wiki, I may say.
           | 
           | That thing is Obsidian. I tried to resist to moving it for so
           | long because it's closed source, but it creates value and
           | extracts structure and knowledge from your Markdown files,
           | locally and super-fast, without bogging you down.
           | 
           | Also, logseq's webpage is very ambiguous. Tons of promises,
           | no screenshots, you enter the live demo, it looks like a
           | simple web page.
           | 
           | In short, Logseq feels too big, feels too hard to start with,
           | and demands too much at the first impression. If failed to
           | get me, and I failed to get it.
        
             | arbitrandomuser wrote:
             | I hate it that all their explanations are videos and not
             | articles I can read
        
             | Al-Khwarizmi wrote:
             | In which way does Obsidian "create value and extract
             | structure and knowledge from your Markdown files"?
             | 
             | I tried it a few months ago because of all the hype, and
             | from a quick try I didn't see anything useful that my
             | current choice (Joplin) didn't have, but from what you are
             | saying, maybe I didn't try for long enough?
             | 
             | I like Joplin, one of its strong points being that it's
             | open source, but I'd be willing to switch if an alternative
             | really adds value.
        
               | Brajeshwar wrote:
               | I like Obsidian on the Desktop and not much on the phone
               | where I like iA Writer. As I manage the files and synced,
               | I can use anything to access the files. I can use iA
               | Writer on the Mobile and still access my files, while I
               | edit that on Obsidian on the Desktop. Sometimes, I just
               | open the whole folder in Sublime Text and start editing
               | it or use Draw/Excalidraw to work on something. Obsidian
               | being the primary but I'm not limited.
               | 
               | My reasoning is to approach contents as data-first with
               | tools on the top. Obsidian happens to be one such
               | brilliant tool for now.
        
               | bayindirh wrote:
               | iA writer is a great tool for focused writing. I use it
               | for authoring my blog posts, and it's "filler detection"
               | does wonders.
        
               | bayindirh wrote:
               | > In which way does Obsidian "create value and extract
               | structure and knowledge from your Markdown files"?
               | 
               | It's search is extremely fast, plus with a bit of
               | metadata, you can pack tons of information into a
               | standard markdown file.
               | 
               | Moreover, when you start to add more and more knowledge,
               | you start to connect notes to each other, which creates a
               | Zettelkasten-like connected notes web. I write gigantic
               | notes generally, but even they have connections, and
               | again the searching for linking is so instant, you can
               | write at the speed of thought.
               | 
               | I have a simple tree note organization scheme, and
               | Obsidian can handle it extremely well, plus files are
               | open on the filesystem. I can unleash another tool on top
               | of that file tree, if I want to edit or analyze them.
               | 
               | I still use Evernote for some personal notes, and Joplin
               | is just the same thing, and its limitations on file/note
               | organization is very limiting for my needs.
               | 
               | Lastly, Obsidian vaults are completely isolated from each
               | other, so the vault which I manage my small digital
               | garden is completely isolated from my work vault. They
               | are on different places, sycned differently, can have
               | different plugins, etc. This is a very nice feature.
               | 
               | TL;DR: Obsidian is a pure "knowledge/documentation"
               | management tool and allows for creation at the speed of
               | thought. It's unobtrusive and Markdown metadata is
               | extremely powerful. Also leveraging internote-connections
               | supercharges Obsidian.
        
               | deafpolygon wrote:
               | > Zettelkasten-like connected notes web
               | 
               | ZK isn't a notes web or anything like that. Just because
               | it can replicate some of the ZK 'methodology' doesn't
               | mean it's Zettelkasten-like.
               | 
               | It's a wiki-like connected notes application.
        
               | bayindirh wrote:
               | I have neither said it replicates ZK nor I use it as a ZK
               | tool. It's wiki-like, yes, and ZK is not a simple "web of
               | notes". However Obsidian's management of notes and links
               | make it more advanced than a simple Wiki-Like
               | application.
               | 
               | It's less linear than a Zim Wiki like desktop wiki, but
               | more linear than a "cloud of floating notes" approach of
               | TiddlyWiki.
        
             | utybo wrote:
             | Logseq is great, but I definitely agree that everything
             | around it (docs, website, ...) is terrible. They really
             | need to rework their marketing pitch and give proper docs.
             | Right now you have docs scattered across 3 websites, and
             | the only useful one is made in Logseq itself, which isn't a
             | good system for scaling documentation.
        
               | kirso wrote:
               | The sad part is that the tool is really underrated.
               | 
               | You don't need to even think where to put notes.
               | 
               | All that overwhelm that all the folks are speaking about,
               | just start writing in your daily page, when you look back
               | -> you have a clear link.
               | 
               | It actually kills ambiguity without having folders and
               | having too much un-needed structure (obviously use-case
               | varies).
               | 
               | Logseq doesn't need plugins because a lot of it is
               | already in-built (tasks, block-references, in-built
               | queries).
               | 
               | It reminds me of the discussion when people praise
               | Next.js for all the packages, and ecosystem but its not a
               | feature, there is a reason people building these.
        
               | bayindirh wrote:
               | I think an application's usefulness depends on how much
               | you align with its design and mindset it brings to the
               | table.
               | 
               | For some people, stuffing pages into a notebook (a-la
               | Evernote/Joplin) is fine. I use Evernote, and it's fine
               | for most things.
               | 
               | However when things start to get crowded, this model
               | breaks down. I also don't like shoving things into an
               | application and meta-sort it with tags and whatnot. I
               | like structured work, because I can put clutter aside in
               | the structure and focus on what I'm working on.
               | 
               | Also, having the files as plain Markdown files is a plus
               | for me, even if it doesn't have the block references. As
               | I already said, I need Obsidian for document and knowhow
               | management, and glorified text files are _what I exactly
               | want_.
        
             | sciurus wrote:
             | > In short, Logseq feels too big, feels too hard to start
             | with, and demands too much at the first impression. If
             | failed to get me, and I failed to get it.
             | 
             | This is interesting, because it wasn't my experience at
             | all. I migrated from Roam to Logseq after I realized I
             | didn't use enough of the fancier features to justify the
             | price. Basically I open Logseq, take notes in my daily
             | journal, and tag blocks so that I can easily pull them up
             | by topic/person/etc later. That's all it took for me to get
             | started, and also as far as I've felt the need to go. For
             | better or worse I have no idea what other "kitchen sink"
             | features it has.
        
               | bayindirh wrote:
               | I think, because the reason is what we want from our
               | tools is different. I already use a much sophisticated
               | tool for my tasks, and project planning (Pagico), and
               | what I want is a bona fide desktop wiki which I want to
               | store my technical research and howto docs (and share
               | them in my digital garden).
               | 
               | This is what Obsidian is. If I wanted something to
               | organize my tasks and other things, I'd take a much
               | different route.
               | 
               | What I'm aiming to get is akin to these: [0] & [1]
               | 
               | [0]: https://nick-black.com/dankwiki/index.php/Hack_on
               | 
               | [1]: https://notes.joschua.io/
        
               | Sander3Utile wrote:
               | Hey I follow that first guy on Goodreads. Good taste in
               | book he has.
        
           | codethief wrote:
           | > What you disliked about Logseq?
           | 
           | For me it was the fact that it's a pure outliner and I
           | couldn't write free-form text. Everything had to be list.
        
         | Roark66 wrote:
         | >Evernote
         | 
         | I _still_ have some notes in Evernote. Imagine my surprise when
         | I logged in after maybe a year of not using it and now search
         | in text notes is not working unless "you upgrade". WTF?
         | 
         | The only good feature of everyone now is that it's easy to
         | export ones notes (I hope that still works).
         | 
         | (about Obsidian) >The only downside is that it's not open
         | source
         | 
         | Indeed, but a saving grace is that it can just store in a bunch
         | of text files you can use any editor with. Some editors
         | (neovim/emacs I think) have plugins to read/write obsidian's
         | notes properly.
        
           | viddo wrote:
           | FWIW, I exported all my Evernote notebooks just recently from
           | my old free account. Used
           | https://github.com/akosbalasko/yarle to convert them to
           | Markdown. It also has support for various PKB formats, like
           | Obsidian. Hope that helps!
        
           | rubslopes wrote:
           | It got worse: 3 weeks ago Evernote announced that their free
           | version will be limited to 50 notes
           | 
           | https://www.theverge.com/2023/11/29/23981683/evernote-
           | limit-...
        
         | Brajeshwar wrote:
         | Wow! This is me. I'm not worried about the open-source part
         | because, as you mentioned, we own the files and their
         | organization. I will just walk out and still have everything I
         | need with me.
         | 
         | I'm kinda pretty well organized. If you wake me up in the
         | middle of my slumber, I can tell you where I have kept
         | something with a series of steps to make it easy for you to
         | find. Even if not precise at times, I will have a way via a
         | general direction. So, this works for something like Obsidian
         | and will only work for things I know how the underlying things
         | are organized.
         | 
         | This is also why I lost Logseg - it was too smart for me and my
         | ways.
        
         | gexla wrote:
         | Same, and it took some months before the plugin ecosystem got
         | to the point where I found it useful. I don't think I would go
         | through that with another note taking app. And it would be
         | difficult for another app to create such a big ecosystem.
        
         | Vingdoloras wrote:
         | How does Obsidian's text editing experience compare to VSCode?
         | I'm using VSC for everything at the moment, which includes a
         | workspace roughly structured into GTD categories via
         | subfolders, filled with markdown documents. The only thing that
         | keeps me curious about Obsidian is the note linking/network
         | visualization and features related to that. But I'm so used to
         | having dev tool levels of text editing available in VSC that I
         | can't bring myself to try switching Obsidian.
        
           | jddj wrote:
           | Same here, but other side of the chasm.
           | 
           | I use logseq for note keeping but I just want the text
           | editing experience of vs code.
           | 
           | I'm not sure why they all roll their own editor. Can't it be
           | a plugin?
        
             | creesch wrote:
             | Fyi, if you are ever looking for a fun project you might be
             | able to implement this. The vscode editor source is
             | available as a library https://microsoft.github.io/monaco-
             | editor/
        
             | ParetoOptimal wrote:
             | Seeing vscode users want their knowledge base in their
             | editor makes me think of the parallel to emacs users.
        
               | creesch wrote:
               | I think you might be confusing the two different meanings
               | of editor here.
               | 
               | 1. Editor as in a complete program that is VScode and
               | everything it entails.
               | 
               | 2. Editor as in the actual text editing experience with
               | syntax highlighting, code completion, etc.
               | 
               | You are likely thinking about the first type. Where the
               | person you respond to is talking about the second one.
               | The experience of editing markdown in VScode is a very
               | pleasant one so I can see why people would want that
               | editing experience in other markdown based note apps.
        
             | mratsim wrote:
             | I tried Dendron, and I preferred to have a fully separate
             | editor.
             | 
             | This way I context switch completely away from code.
             | 
             | Also it annoying to swap workspaces and keep the up.
        
               | jddj wrote:
               | Thanks for this, I'll give it a go.
               | 
               | I can see how having the environment be at least
               | cosmetically different might help though. I feel like
               | there must be a good enough solution to that, I'll have a
               | poke around
        
             | PurpleRamen wrote:
             | > I'm not sure why they all roll their own editor. Can't it
             | be a plugin?
             | 
             | There are multiple reason, like editors having too much of
             | their own baggage, or not being meant to be used as a
             | foundation for a mature app. But I guess mainly it's a
             | matter of licensing, and building your own editing-
             | experience.
             | 
             | VS Code is for plaintext, while obsidian has deep rich-
             | text-handling. It's probably not that easy to combine both
             | flawless and still supporting all the plaintext-editing.
        
             | jmhammond wrote:
             | In Logseq, you can open the current note in the default
             | system editor - I do this for long form note taking (in my
             | case in emacs) but everything is back in the Logseq graph
             | for connection and search and all its syncing goodies.
        
           | tuffff wrote:
           | There is a Vim plugin for Obsidian, so for me the editing is
           | pretty similar. And I guess it's a good indicator that a
           | plugin for your taste may also exist.
           | 
           | For actual coffee editing, there is also
           | https://github.com/sunxvming/obsidian-vscode-editor
        
           | NicuCalcea wrote:
           | You should have a look at Foam:
           | https://github.com/foambubble/foam
        
           | 2shortplanks wrote:
           | That's actually one of the main reasons I like Obsidian -
           | that I can easily use vscode with it. Obsidian's backend is
           | just markdown files on the file system which you're free to
           | edit with another editor at the same time as you have
           | Obsidian open (it'll notice file system changes and update
           | any open documents near instantly). I even have a plugin
           | setup that when I hit a keyboard shortcut it executes the
           | necessary vscode command line tool to open whatever I'm
           | viewing in obsidian in vscode.
        
         | adhamsalama wrote:
         | Try SiYuan Note. It's free and open source local-first mix of
         | Notion and Obsidian.
         | 
         | https://github.com/siyuan-note/siyuan
        
         | canoebuilder wrote:
         | Are you(or anybody) using the Obsidian iOS mobile app with git
         | for sync/versioning? Is that possible?
        
         | aiisjustanif wrote:
         | Weird that people find Obsidian before Joplin
        
       | DeathArrow wrote:
       | Is there a free, cross platform note taking app (mobile, PC, Mac)
       | that allows you to save on cloud and sync?
        
         | bobmaxup wrote:
         | Joplin
        
         | anticrymactic wrote:
         | Obsidian + Syncthing
        
           | poulpy123 wrote:
           | I found syncthing lost severals of my changes . I settled on
           | the live sync plugin and for the moment it works nicely
        
             | Brajeshwar wrote:
             | How did Syncthing lost your changes? Are you talking about
             | versions or the sync? I'm gradually transitioning to
             | Syncthing for a lot of stuffs and I want to be prepared.
        
               | poulpy123 wrote:
               | I lost changes that I made on one device. To be fair it
               | was probably a mistake on my side, but I didn't notice
               | how it happened so I prefered look elsewhere for a sync
               | solution for obsidian.
        
             | remram wrote:
             | Thanks for the pointer!
             | 
             | https://github.com/vrtmrz/obsidian-livesync: self-hostable
             | sync via CouchDB, MIT license, supports the visual conflict
             | resolver and end-to-end encryption.
        
               | poulpy123 wrote:
               | I'm using a free hosting by IBM, the set up is decribed
               | in the plug in github, so it was easy
        
         | RockstarSprain wrote:
         | Simplenote.
        
       | codingpanga wrote:
       | This is nice. But, how this is different from Joplin?
       | 
       | Any comparison?
        
       | baq wrote:
       | I've been using Dendron on vscode with some success:
       | https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=dendron....
        
         | bachmeier wrote:
         | Dendron development stopped about a year ago:
         | https://github.com/dendronhq/dendron/discussions/3890#discus...
        
           | baq wrote:
           | Oh.
           | 
           | Well, at least it isn't cloud software.
        
       | tarcon wrote:
       | Don't put any real data in the hosted demo. The database
       | credentials are leaked in the .env file.
        
         | mdaniel wrote:
         | I especially enjoyed the header saying ".env is .gitignored"
         | https://github.com/penxio/penx/blob/main/.env#L1
        
         | sphars wrote:
         | Apparently that's for development, the deployed production
         | version is using a separate database:
         | https://github.com/penxio/penx/issues/20#issuecomment-186770...
        
       | account-5 wrote:
       | Unless I'm missing something obviously, quite likely, I can't see
       | how the notes are structured. Screenshots would be nice.
       | 
       | Why would I use this over sonething like zim-wiki? Admittedly
       | there is no mobile client but in a pinch I use markor for that.
        
         | vrnvu wrote:
         | If you visit the website, there is a demo: https://www.penx.io/
        
       | swah wrote:
       | Looks good, but cmd+a test failed ;)
        
       | Der_Einzige wrote:
       | The best note taking app ever made by far is called verbatim and
       | was built originally for the competitive debate community. It's
       | so good that people who watched me use it in college were jealous
       | at the power it enables within Microsoft word for structured
       | notes.
       | 
       | https://paperlessdebate.com/verbatim/
        
         | remram wrote:
         | Why do you think so?
         | 
         | Does it sync between devices? Does it work on mobile at all?
        
         | kseistrup wrote:
         | It seems to be for Windows and Mac only, right?
        
         | replwoacause wrote:
         | Honestly difficult to tell what it even does
        
       | isodev wrote:
       | Say I'm already using Obsidian, what would be some cool features
       | it can add to my workflow?
       | 
       | Side note: "Privacy first" but then "Login with Google" :)
        
       | tovej wrote:
       | It seems like this tool is creating a hierarchical document
       | database, it reminds me of XML, but it's json! (or serializes to
       | json at the very least)
       | 
       | I don't know what to make of this. I do like the fact that it's a
       | tree, and you can sort of create a document-like hierarchy. The
       | issue with enforced hierarchies is that you now have to find a
       | spot in this arbitrary tree structure for every note you take.
       | 
       | It's also a little jarring that list items are treated in the
       | same way that two articles would be. I'm not sure I like that.
       | Lists are a useful readability tool, but articles and chapters
       | are semantic partitioning concepts. I get a little bit of a weird
       | feeling when this is the only representation of the note set
       | that's available. And it feels like cross-referenced notes might
       | be difficult to represent.
       | 
       | I do like the representation from a minimap perspective, and it's
       | making me think that maybe the best solution is to use this tree-
       | view as a UI model rather than a canonical representation.
        
       | linhns wrote:
       | Looks cool. My suggestion would be to change your color from
       | purple as it seems ripped off from Obsidian.
        
       | smusamashah wrote:
       | This looks very similar to Logseq. I would go as far as calling
       | it a clone because the main page looks almost exactly the same.
       | Logseq has matured a lot over the years, what is PenX doing
       | better than Logseq? From the demo it feels like it's still behind
       | Logseq a lot.
        
         | manyty wrote:
         | +1 and curious, too
         | 
         | I would go further than that also. It directly mirrors
         | https://anytype.io/ but without the desktop or mobile clients
         | to actually store the workspace on your device.
        
       | hellectronic wrote:
       | For me it is important to have effective note taking and
       | management. I tried a lot of note taking apps myself and I am not
       | satisfied with the ones I tried. Even unsuccessful planed and
       | tried to write one myself : ) I used zim-wiki[1] in the past and
       | at the moment I am using Obsidian[2], that is working good for
       | me.
       | 
       | I like the way you use to take notes. I know it from Workflowy
       | [3].
       | 
       | Everyone has some personal approach and use cases for taking
       | notes. From taking only notes for a grocery list to a full-
       | fledged personal wiki system. And it is important to figure out
       | what PND (pain/need/desire) your application should really
       | satisfy.
       | 
       | [1] https://zim-wiki.org
       | 
       | [2] https://obsidian.md
       | 
       | [3] https://workflowy.com
        
         | jbverschoor wrote:
         | For me it's obsidian and noteplan.
        
       | redleader55 wrote:
       | I wonder what's the use for this "https://explorer-
       | api.walletconnect.com/w3m/v1/getAssetImage/..." which fails to
       | load on my Firefox.
        
       | southernplaces7 wrote:
       | The fundamental question for me is about privacy. Good, well-
       | created note-taking apps abound these days, but few really
       | promise and deliver solid privacy that even their creators cant
       | breach. One need not be taking notes on "howz to makez bombez
       | 101" to value nobody being able to snoop their notes at will.
        
       | codemusings wrote:
       | Nothing fishy at all about wanting to connect to
       | _walletconnect.com_
        
         | berkes wrote:
         | I usually don't like the hate on everything cryptocurrency or
         | web3. But I cannot see nor understand why it would be needed
         | here.
         | 
         | IPFS maybe?
        
       | gtirloni wrote:
       | Tangential question: I see you chose the AGPL license.
       | Coincidentally, I was reading more about it yesterday and it
       | seems like a good choice for software that can be hosted. Could
       | you share your decision process on what or any insights you might
       | have?
        
       | vdo1138 wrote:
       | Nice but, does a note taking app with 3 contributors need a
       | Discord?
        
       | CrypticShift wrote:
       | This is what I call an outliner-database hybrid. FYI, many note-
       | taking apps are going in this direction.
       | 
       | - Tana.inc (closed alpha) introduced the concept of supertags
       | [1], equivalent to what this app calls meta tags
       | 
       | - Remnote.com also added editable tables [2] to its outlines not
       | long ago (only in the paid version).
       | 
       | - Logseq.com is planning such an addition soon.
       | 
       | It is a powerful combo because it combines two very primary ways
       | of interacting with data: the tree (outliner) mode and the grid
       | (table/DB) mode.
       | 
       | So for me, this could be an alternative to logseq as OSS/local.
       | It seems promising, I hope it will continue to grow.
       | 
       | [1] https://tana.inc/docs/supertags [2]
       | https://help.remnote.com/en/articles/8118336-tables
        
         | swah wrote:
         | Capacities too. But I feel like Notion is easier to maintain in
         | the end and has the databases with linked records and you can
         | do lots of stuff with that... not sure why Notion gets so much
         | hate.
        
           | CrypticShift wrote:
           | Yeah, they both have DBs, and you can kind of outline inside
           | pages. The difference is that, technically, in a "real
           | outliner", each "node" (or line) is (by default) a different
           | entry in the database, whereas in page-based apps
           | (Capacities/Notion), it is the whole page.
           | 
           | Capacities is partially going in this direction. Notion, less
           | so, but it is simple and advanced (linked records...) and
           | hence a favorite of mine too.
        
       | albert_e wrote:
       | Is there a similar tool that allows pasting of images and
       | uploading of files --- that I can self host on say AWS and use S3
       | for storage and hosting?
        
       | bradley13 wrote:
       | I look at these apps occasionally, and I've even tried a few of
       | them. In the end, I find them to just be overkill. Give me a
       | simple text editor, and I put the text files where the
       | information belongs.
       | 
       | Using fancy apps, where you can do formatting, place links, etc?
       | I spend too much time futzing with all that stuff and less time
       | actually getting stuff done.
        
         | Aicy wrote:
         | I spent lots of time with notion and obsidian and this is what
         | I came to as well.
         | 
         | What I do now is have markdown files, and use the OS folder
         | system for organising. I then use OneDrive for syncing - this
         | works perfectly fine between MacOS and Windows, and for both I
         | use Visual Studio Code for editing. For android I use an app
         | called FolderSync to sync and TMarkor for editing.
         | 
         | Has been working perfectly for over a year now.
        
           | mejutoco wrote:
           | Obsidian also uses markdown files, so you could have stayed
           | with it and backup the folders normally, if you do not want
           | to pay for the syncing.
        
           | stack_underflow wrote:
           | Just curious, any reason you're using TMarkor instead of
           | Markor? (https://github.com/gsantner/markor/ , https://play.g
           | oogle.com/store/apps/details?id=net.gsantner.m...)
           | 
           | Only asking since this was also the editor I ended up
           | settling on in Android, but it seems like TMarkor is just a
           | repackaging of Markor without any references to its forked(?)
           | source.
           | 
           | My requirement was that the editor had to be open source so
           | that I could audit the repo and compile the APK from source,
           | as well as potentially fork it for personal modifications if
           | needed.
        
       | purplecats wrote:
       | taskpaper is my go to for this
        
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