[HN Gopher] New UK record for wind power set today - 21.81 GW be...
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       New UK record for wind power set today - 21.81 GW between 0900-0930
       GMT
        
       Author : scrlk
       Score  : 130 points
       Date   : 2023-12-21 09:58 UTC (13 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (grid.iamkate.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (grid.iamkate.com)
        
       | mytailorisrich wrote:
       | Storm Pia is passing over the UK today, and it is a very windy
       | day [1]
       | 
       | [1] https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/warnings-and-
       | advice/uk-...
        
         | ttrrooppeerr wrote:
         | No great loss without some gain!
        
         | meindnoch wrote:
         | Imagine how much windier would it be, if they didn't extract
         | that energy with wind farms.
        
           | CorrectHorseBat wrote:
           | Probably not measurable
        
       | hunglee2 wrote:
       | UK could obviously be a wind / wave energy super power. Despite
       | multi-decade mismanagement by government, we can be bullish about
       | UK prospects, especially now Scottish Independence is receding
       | from the conversation
        
         | secfirstmd wrote:
         | Why would Scottish independence matter? Are they gonna take
         | their wind with them?
        
           | throwaway0665 wrote:
           | There are a considerable number of existing wind farms in
           | Scottland
        
           | s0l1dsnak3123 wrote:
           | Well, yes, Scotland has many of the best sites for wind
           | turbine generation in the UK. In all likelihood my country
           | would be able to sell energy and water to the rest of the UK
           | when Scotland finally leaves (I am still certain it will
           | happen in my lifetime).
        
             | martinald wrote:
             | Not really, most offshore is off the coast of England now,
             | not Scotland.
        
               | anovikov wrote:
               | And this is probably exactly because of Scottish
               | independence concerns in the past...
        
               | martinald wrote:
               | I don't think there is a huge difference in output of
               | English vs Scottish territorial water wind output.
               | 
               | There is a massive shortage of Scottish -> England
               | transmission though. So it's a lot better to build them
               | closer to where the power is needed.
               | 
               | However, there is nearly 10GW of HVDC in the pipeline to
               | transmit power from Scotland to England (look up national
               | grid eastern link 1, 2, 3 and 4).
        
               | louthy wrote:
               | Just to back that up:
               | 
               | https://www.researchgate.net/figure/The-locations-of-
               | constru...
        
               | martinald wrote:
               | That's from 2010. This is a more up to date one, but
               | still probably outdated:
               | https://www.windenergynetwork.co.uk/wp-
               | content/uploads/2021/...
        
             | scythe wrote:
             | One of the major limitations of wind power in England is
             | that new onshore wind farms are very difficult to construct
             | if not totally illegal in England. This is probably part of
             | the reason for the situation another commenter noticed:
             | most UK offshore is currently in England's territorial
             | waters. But another reason is due to shortfalls in the
             | physical interconnection between the Scottish and English
             | power grids. UK must construct additional pylons.
             | 
             | There's also major potential for wind farms in Wales,
             | although it's been controversial since some of the sites
             | are on top of peat bogs or scenic hills.
             | 
             | >Scotland finally leaves (I am still certain it will happen
             | in my lifetime).
             | 
             | Scotland could aim for a Channel Islands-type arrangement
             | where they still enjoy an economic union without an
             | administrative one. That would be similar to the situation
             | that existed before the Acts of Union. Of course, they're
             | quite a bit bigger than Jersey, so it could be tricky.
        
             | tremon wrote:
             | But are you then implying that once the UK left the EU, all
             | power transmission wires were cut as well? Because I don't
             | see a reason why England wouldn't still enjoy low prices
             | for wind energy even if Scotland were independent -- if
             | Scotland has overcapacity, they'll have to sell at any
             | price anyway to avoid disrupting their power grid.
             | 
             | Besides, the European electricity grid is much larger than
             | the EU, it spans all the way from Ireland to Turkey, and
             | from Finland to Morocco.
        
               | secfirstmd wrote:
               | This
        
           | Anon826 wrote:
           | UK government pays for energy projects in Scotland to help
           | Scottish economy. Scotland makes up 7% of UK economy.
           | Scotland claims 100% ownership after independence. Genius
           | SNP.
        
             | jl6 wrote:
             | The big wind projects aren't "owned" by the UK/Scottish
             | governments, they are private* assets built under a
             | government license. Most likely an independent Scotland
             | would continue to license these wind farms and the energy
             | trade with the rest of the UK would continue under very
             | similar terms.
             | 
             | * Actually, many of them are owned by non-UK governments.
        
             | yread wrote:
             | Isn't it the other way around? British gov sells licenses
             | for windparks for billions. It then guarantees electricity
             | price to a certain degree. This would be presumably paid by
             | the Scottish gov.
        
           | krallja wrote:
           | They would take the Scottish coast with them.
        
           | thebruce87m wrote:
           | Scottish independence is directly linked to energy. If
           | Scottish independence is in the news then the amount of oil
           | in the North Sea vanishes overnight. Luckily it all comes
           | back when independence talk dies down.
        
         | walthamstow wrote:
         | I thought I read that wave/tidal was basically not worth the
         | investment and ecological impact for the power it generates.
        
           | MrsPeaches wrote:
           | Seawater ain't no joke.
           | 
           | I remember reading a few papers about essentially underwater
           | turbines in tidal estuaries. Where you have natural flow of
           | water that you can just tap. If I recall correctly impact on
           | local wildlife (seals iirc) was lower than expected.
           | 
           | Main argument I could see was that water had 1000x the
           | density of air so 1000x the amount of power for a rotor with
           | the same swept area. Of course fluid speeds are lower so it's
           | not quite that easy. But much more predictable. They did some
           | fancy optimisations in the blades and came up with decent
           | efficiencies. It's a great little series of papers by Batten
           | and Bahaj et. al from 2006.
           | 
           | I assume the art has progressed since then.
           | 
           | But yeah, anything with moving parts in seawater is a
           | nightmare as far as I can tell.
        
             | riv991 wrote:
             | Tidal energy is not renewable! We'd be tidally locked to
             | the moon in 1000 years if we used Tidal for 1% of our
             | energy consumption.
             | 
             | https://cs.stanford.edu/people/zjl/pdf/tide.pdf
        
               | anovikov wrote:
               | That article is based on ridiculous assumptions of future
               | energy consumption growth, and was probably created as a
               | joke. Which backfired since it got seriously quoted in so
               | many places.
        
               | midasuni wrote:
               | They have a 2% increase in energy use each year for 1000
               | years, currently 10^12W
               | 
               | That would mean we'd be well into the type 1 civilisation
               | about 10^19W a year and we'll be on the way to a type 2
               | civilisation.
        
               | pfdietz wrote:
               | Sunlight hitting Earth is around 10^17 W, so that
               | civilization would be rather toasty.
        
               | midasuni wrote:
               | In theory if you used the power and radiated it to space
               | (via laser, RF, etc) you'd be ok. You could even use also
               | use that energy to put into rotational energy to increase
               | the earths rotational speed
        
               | pfdietz wrote:
               | Lasers can't radiate heat, as a laser beam has no
               | entropy. Ditto for coherent radio waves.
        
             | jdietrich wrote:
             | _> I assume the art has progressed since then._
             | 
             | Not really, no. Even if you completely solved the issue of
             | corrosion (which we absolutely haven't), you'd still have
             | to deal with biofouling - anything you leave underwater
             | will rapidly become covered in algae, seaweed and
             | invertebrates. We have antifouling coatings, but a) they're
             | quite toxic, for obvious reasons and b) they need to be
             | regularly renewed.
             | 
             | That would be enough of a problem, but you've also got the
             | cost and difficulty of maintaining underwater
             | infrastructure. It's inherently dangerous, very slow and
             | often made impossible by tidal or weather conditions.
             | 
             | Offshore wind turbines are already much more expensive to
             | build and maintain than onshore, but tidal generators are
             | on another level entirely.
        
               | mytailorisrich wrote:
               | The Rance tidal power station [1] in France has been
               | operating since 1966 so I don't think that there are
               | technical issues, at least with this type of tidal power
               | generation (ie. a dam across a tidal estuary and good old
               | turbines to produce electricity). That specific power
               | station doubles as a much needed road bridge, as well.
               | 
               | [1]
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rance_Tidal_Power_Station
        
               | creer wrote:
               | It has been operating - but it was a research project and
               | it's not like tidal has proliferated since then. Not
               | quite a dead end yet - people are still working on
               | submerged tidal kinds of things. But close.
        
               | jdietrich wrote:
               | It wouldn't be legal to build Rance in the EU today,
               | because of the enormously disruptive effects on the local
               | ecosystem. It's not something that bothers me personally,
               | but it's a total dealbreaker in a country like the UK
               | where wildlife activists hold considerably more political
               | sway that climate activists.
        
               | mytailorisrich wrote:
               | Yes, that's what I was thinking.
               | 
               | There was a project to build a tidal lagoon in Cardiff
               | [1] that was eventually abandoned, and I don't know about
               | the environmental impact. But it had the merit of being
               | ambitious.
               | 
               | [1] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-41213528
        
           | loufe wrote:
           | I understand the use of wave in this context like hydrogen
           | fuel cells in NA. It's amazing to hear that our governments
           | are still giving money to what is clearly a bad idea
           | (hydrogen). I think, like in the case of tidal power, you
           | could chalk it up to doing something to sate special
           | interests.
        
             | pydry wrote:
             | Hydrogen will probably fill a niche for seasonal grid
             | energy storage. In general pumped storage > batteries >
             | hydrogen for cost/efficiency, but hydrogen has the
             | advantage that it's cheap to store for weeks or months at a
             | time while pumped storage/batteries are suited only to
             | smoothing out daily or weekly variations in solar and wind
             | output.
             | 
             | It's more useful for getting from 90%/95% to 100% green
             | energy than from 0% - 90% though, and it's more expensive
             | than natural gas performing the same function so we likely
             | won't see it used in anger for a while.
        
               | thworp wrote:
               | > but hydrogen has the advantage that it's cheap to store
               | for weeks or months at a time
               | 
               | Where did you get that idea? Hydrogen is extremely hard
               | to work with and really really wants to escape from any
               | containment vessel you put it in. See https://www.science
               | direct.com/science/article/pii/S136403212...
        
               | pydry wrote:
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underground_hydrogen_storag
               | e
               | 
               | Your article talks about it positively.
        
         | ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
         | I had a friend that lived in the Outer Hebrides (Northwest
         | coast of Scotland).
         | 
         | He said it wasn't unusual to have gales in the winter, with
         | >100Km/hr winds.
         | 
         | Seems to be a rich local resource.
        
           | neilkk wrote:
           | Wind turbines have a max windspeed beyond which they stop
           | generating, as it's too risky to let the blades spin that
           | fast.
        
             | julosflb wrote:
             | Cut off wind speed is typically around 25m/s steady, so
             | almost 100km/h. Beyond that indeed they stop producing.
        
       | mavhc wrote:
       | Only downside is it's taken loads of public transport offline
        
         | deadbunny wrote:
         | If only someone had planned ahead and added some redundancy to
         | the lines running out or Euston to Manchester.
         | 
         | Oh wait.
        
       | tupac_speedrap wrote:
       | I'm not surprised, there are wheelie bins all over the place,
       | it's like a warzone out there.
        
         | dnel wrote:
         | the storms only ever pass on bin day, I'm seeing the pattern
        
           | Baldbvrhunter wrote:
           | every day is bin day somewhere in your region
        
         | scrlk wrote:
         | It's a wheelie bad situation (sorry, couldn't help myself) -
         | got woken up at 0600 when the recycling bins lined up on my
         | street started to topple over, scattering cans and bottles
         | everywhere.
        
       | buggeryorkshire wrote:
       | Not surprised as it knocked my outdoor Christmas tree down...
        
       | toomuchtodo wrote:
       | VikingLink turns up Dec 29, which will bring 800MW of clean wind
       | energy to the UK from Denmark until transmission work in Denmark
       | allows for the full 1.4GW link capacity to be utilized.
       | 
       | https://www.offshore-energy.biz/viking-link-worlds-largest-i...
       | 
       | https://www.viking-link.com/
        
         | frereubu wrote:
         | And it's going to get better:
         | 
         | "Orsted is to press ahead with developing the world's largest
         | offshore wind farm in the North Sea after the UK increased
         | financial support for the sector in a big boost for the Danish
         | group after a string of setbacks."
         | 
         | https://www.ft.com/content/4d3cc6d4-f479-4607-9574-63e320af8...
         | https://archive.is/Rm9Hi
        
           | CaptainOfCoit wrote:
           | It's great to see how the usage of the North Sea have shifted
           | over time, and it still remains as useful as before. We've
           | always fished there, and I remember my grandpa being involved
           | with some oil/gas engineering there, he used to have some
           | maps of the North Sea with planned stations or something, and
           | now the wind farms getting expanded to provide cleaner
           | energy.
        
           | ksec wrote:
           | Has there been any study that if we populate the say 20-30%
           | of North Sea with Wind Turbine, how much electricity could
           | that provide?
        
             | toomuchtodo wrote:
             | Offshore:
             | 
             | https://windeurope.org/policy/topics/offshore-wind-energy/
             | 
             | https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/north-sea-
             | countries-...
             | 
             | https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S23524847
             | 2...
             | 
             | https://www.uib.no/sites/w3.uib.no/files/attachments/presen
             | t...
             | 
             | Onshore, Europe has enough wind potential to power the
             | world.
        
               | cjrp wrote:
               | There's a David McWilliams podcast episode about how
               | Ireland has enough wind potential to meet their entire
               | energy demand and be a net exporter. Interesting listen
               | https://shows.acast.com/the-david-mcwilliams-
               | podcast/episode...
        
               | toomuchtodo wrote:
               | Thanks for sharing this. Northern Ireland just retired
               | their last coal fired generator at the end of September
               | 2023 and the Republic of Ireland has a 2025 phaseout
               | target for the remaining generators.
               | 
               | https://web.archive.org/web/20231004055500/https://www.bb
               | c.c...
               | 
               | https://beyondfossilfuels.org/europes-coal-exit/
        
             | abainbridge wrote:
             | Not a direct answer to your questions, but there's some
             | nice data here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_offsh
             | ore_wind_farms_in...
             | 
             | Currently we have 14.7 GW of operational off-shore wind
             | gen. Another 13 GW is in the planning stage and 46 GW more
             | in the "early planning" stage.
             | 
             | There's currently 14 GW of on-shore wind gen.
        
       | Arbortheus wrote:
       | A super cheap wholesale price on a windy day like this.
       | 
       | Past year average: PS97.90/MWh Right now: PS5.99/MWh.
       | 
       | Better transmission and storage tech or better ways to scale
       | demand at different times will be a game changer here.
        
         | toomuchtodo wrote:
         | It was once said that nuclear fission would be too cheap to
         | meter. Turns out, that promise will be met with fusion at a
         | distance.
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37502924 (citations)
         | 
         | (edit @ oezi: wind power is solar power)
        
           | oezi wrote:
           | Solar alone won't cut it in the winter. We need wind as well.
        
             | ben_w wrote:
             | While I prefer a mix of sources to avoid correlated black
             | swan failures, _technically_ you could power the world just
             | fine with distributed PV and a sufficiently fat[0] wire
             | connecting everything.
             | 
             | [0] 1m^2 cross section if it's aluminium
        
               | throwup238 wrote:
               | Hopefully they'll use plasma conduits instead and all the
               | years of binge watching Star Trek and Stargate will pay
               | off.
        
               | pfdietz wrote:
               | Or with hydrogen storage.
        
               | toomuchtodo wrote:
               | Ammonia.
        
               | pfdietz wrote:
               | You can store hydrogen underground. I don't think that
               | would work as well with ammonia.
        
               | toomuchtodo wrote:
               | https://patents.google.com/patent/US2901403A/en
               | 
               | https://www.oxfordenergy.org/wpcms/wp-
               | content/uploads/2020/1...
               | 
               | https://www.nj.gov/dep/njgs/enviroed/infocirc/StorCavsIC.
               | pdf (Control-F "Repauno Works")
               | 
               | TLDR It is a superior long duration liquid energy storage
               | system vs hydrogen.
        
               | pfdietz wrote:
               | Conceded! Except for round trip efficiency.
        
               | toomuchtodo wrote:
               | No worries, we are all learning together.
               | 
               | https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acssuschemeng.7b02219
        
             | throwaway2990 wrote:
             | Wind and solar are terrible solutions. Another 10-20 years
             | and people will be complaining about cost of power as all
             | the wind and solar need to be replaced and repaired. And
             | the discussions on irreversible damage it's done.
        
               | throwbadubadu wrote:
               | Lucky us we are past that already with nuclear, those
               | plants never need replacement, neither heavy subsidies
               | upfront, or also afterwards to dismantle and clean up..
               | why humans so stupid? Did I forgot that they also never
               | need maintenance, as all the other tech? Except gas and
               | coal plants, which are also maintenance free, and we can
               | even make profit on the resources they consume!
        
         | jermaustin1 wrote:
         | I got it! A huge fan that blows a lot of wind when demand
         | peaks!
        
           | function_seven wrote:
           | Literally importing the wind from one place to another. What
           | a time to be alive!
        
         | Gibbon1 wrote:
         | At that price resistive heating would be cheaper than nat gas.
        
           | creer wrote:
           | And the appliances are inexpensive too.
        
       | jonatron wrote:
       | I got paid to use electricity this morning:
       | https://agileprices.co.uk/
        
         | shaoonb wrote:
         | Didn't know this site existed. Way better than the Octopus app.
        
           | jonatron wrote:
           | There's also a handy twitter account for predicting slightly
           | further ahead: https://twitter.com/agilepredict
        
           | adamm255 wrote:
           | "Octo-Aid" is great if your on iOS.
        
         | forinti wrote:
         | Nice time to turn on a bitcoin miner.
         | 
         | Is there an API to monitor prices?
        
           | jonatron wrote:
           | Octopus do have an API:
           | https://developer.octopus.energy/docs/api/
        
         | itsoktocry wrote:
         | How have your energy costs looked, overall, over the past 2-3
         | years? Getting cheaper or more expensive?
         | 
         | I ask because I frequently see posts like this one, but then
         | also that Europeans are paying more than ever etc. Hard to
         | figure if we are putting a dent in anything.
        
           | Peanuts99 wrote:
           | I've been on Agile for about 6 months and my average energy
           | price is around 0.22p/kWh which is significantly less than
           | the standard tariff most people get which is around
           | 0.36p/kWh. There's been a few weeks where prices have been
           | higher but it balances out so far.
        
             | uf00lme wrote:
             | I have octopus agile for electricity and octopus tracker
             | for gas. Been on both since February when my last fixed
             | rate ended.
             | 
             | It has worked out great so far, some days when there isn't
             | much wind can be painful but overall it works out better.
             | Even if it didn't, I'd rather pay a fair amount than have
             | energy companies rip me off.
        
           | jonatron wrote:
           | Over the last year, my overall average rate on the agile
           | (time of use) tariff has been about PS0.19/kWh. It's
           | significantly cheaper than on the standard tariff, which
           | would have been somewhere between PS0.28/kWh and PS0.35/kWh
           | approx.
        
             | cjrp wrote:
             | Do you still pay the same standing charge? That's where a
             | lot of the cost seems to have shifted (on my non-variable
             | tariff at least).
        
               | jonatron wrote:
               | For some reason the standing charge is a bit less too.
        
               | ZeroGravitas wrote:
               | The higher the standing charge as a percentage of the
               | final cost, the less motivation there is to respond to
               | the price signal, which is part of the point of providing
               | varying prices to the end user.
        
       | passwordoops wrote:
       | Awesome. With increasing capacity they'll keep on breaking
       | records. Now can we start sharing links to storage projects too?
       | Because not every day is windy
        
         | jonatron wrote:
         | On 9 August 2019 there was a significant power cut due to lack
         | of inertia. This duration was significantly reduced because of
         | batteries [1]. Since then, gas turbines have been repurposed to
         | provide inertia without generation [2]. Check out the
         | documentary series "Guy Martin's Great British Power Trip" [3]
         | for more national grid facts.
         | 
         | [1]
         | https://www.theblackoutreport.co.uk/2023/08/09/9-august-2019...
         | [2] https://www.nationalgrideso.com/news/deeside-power-
         | station-b... [3] https://www.channel4.com/programmes/guy-
         | martins-great-britis...
        
           | 4ggr0 wrote:
           | For everyone who doesn't know Guy Martin, I initially know
           | him as a superbiker and first heard of him in the context of
           | the Isle of Man TT[0][1], so I was a bit surprised to see
           | he's now doing docuseries about power grids :D
           | 
           | [0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmNXCJt7K3Q
           | 
           | [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isle_of_Man_TT
        
         | cm2187 wrote:
         | I am not even aware that any are planned at scale. I think
         | their plan is to keep using LNG to offset.
        
           | martinald wrote:
           | There is an absolutely enormous amount of battery storage in
           | the pipeline. There's been major problems with transmission
           | capacity though which National Grid is seemingly finally
           | getting on top of - https://www.pv-
           | magazine.com/2023/11/07/uk-grid-operator-stre....
        
             | cm2187 wrote:
             | This link and the other websites where I tried to find the
             | numbers quote the capacity in GW, which is very curious
             | because that's not a battery capacity unit. I have the
             | feeling that when they quote 10GW, they mean 10GWh. If it
             | is the case those batteries are peanuts. On a typical year
             | you often have episodes of several days if not a couple of
             | weeks with low to no wind.
        
               | chippiewill wrote:
               | It's not about the capacity of the batteries themselves,
               | it's about the _grid_ capacity they can cover. GW isn't a
               | mistake, they care that it can deliver 10GW of
               | instantaneous power, not 10GWh.
               | 
               | National Grid don't want these storage projects to allow
               | us to tide over for days of no wind / no solar, but to
               | add grid balancing.
               | 
               | At the moment if a large power supplier disconnects (e.g.
               | a 1.2GW Nuclear plant) then to handle the drop in
               | supplied power over a period of seconds/minutes before a
               | standby gas turbine generator can fire up they currently
               | rely on the "spinning" mass within the system - literally
               | the intertia of the spinning steel within all the
               | remaining nuclear, gas, coal, biomass power plants. As
               | the grid is being decarbonised this spinning mass is
               | being reduced (Unfortunately wind turbines don't have
               | enough mass for this) and they need to add more
               | responsive balancing.
        
               | cm2187 wrote:
               | ok but then we are back to my point that there is no
               | large battery capacity to deal with the volatility of
               | wind. From what I can tell from gridwatch, LNG is what
               | they fire up when there is no wind.
        
         | ksec wrote:
         | I would like to think the best way for Storage isn't a a giant
         | battery somewhere ( although we could certainly do that with
         | Hydro Dam ), may be something like a Tesla Powerwall that could
         | work 20-30 years minimum, minimal to zero fire risk. All the
         | homes could then install their own and take advantage of the
         | cheap electricity price at night or in other hours. It would
         | ultimately serve as the biggest buffer to any surge in energy
         | usage.
        
           | standeven wrote:
           | A buried flywheel storage system would accomplish this,
           | they're just prohibitively expensive at the moment. Vehicle-
           | to-grid will be big once it catches on and consumers get over
           | the idea of adding cycles to their vehicle batteries.
        
           | cm2187 wrote:
           | Why? You lose the diversification effect. You would have to
           | size the battery to each house's max consumption.
        
         | mytailorisrich wrote:
         | The grid is still a big bottleneck across the board, from
         | production (can't connect wind or solar farms) to deliver
         | (can't connect charging stations, etc).
        
         | Blehmo wrote:
         | Easy: get an EV and allow bidirectional charging; done.
         | 
         | My ev has 100kWh, just the bi directional is not yet working
        
           | r00fus wrote:
           | Which EV is that? I know Tesla doesn't support bidirectional
           | and most other EVs top off at 75-80kWh.
        
         | standeven wrote:
         | Here's the storage solution project I'm working on:
         | https://vortical.io
         | 
         | Flywheel storage (which is not new), but we sacrifice some
         | efficiency and energy density so we can do it for cheap.
        
           | lolc wrote:
           | Unfortunately the linked page has zero info on how their
           | flywheels differ from current tech.
        
             | standeven wrote:
             | Waiting for patents to file before public disclosure of the
             | tech, but I can give you a basic overview. We use mass
             | instead of speed to store energy. This is slightly less
             | efficient but way less expensive; speed requires magnetic
             | bearings and operating in a vacuum and many other expensive
             | design constraints. Other flywheels operate in the 7500 -
             | 100k RPM range, and we spin at 2000.
        
               | lolc wrote:
               | If you forego magnetic bearings and vacuum, the energy
               | drains within hours, no?
        
               | standeven wrote:
               | Bearing and windage losses scale down drastically with
               | lower speeds, so only slightly worse than other flywheel
               | systems. They are best for daily cycles or multiple-daily
               | cycles. Things like load shifting, peak shaving,
               | frequency regulation, etc. They are not well suited for
               | storage beyond a few days.
        
       | bufio wrote:
       | Lovely. Can we have lower bills yet?
        
         | tonyedgecombe wrote:
         | No, they are going up in the new year.
        
         | swarnie wrote:
         | Its already pretty cheap right?
         | 
         | Checking Octopus it seems to be averaging about PS140 a month
         | on my account.
        
           | midasuni wrote:
           | That's menaingless without saying what your consumption is
        
         | maccard wrote:
         | If you have a smart meter, yes. My electricity rate today is
         | 15p/kWh.
        
         | uf00lme wrote:
         | As per other comments, I will likely net profit today from
         | maxing out usage during negative pricing via octopus agile.
        
       | bryanlarsen wrote:
       | On the solstice, too, when solar production will be relatively
       | low. It's a good anecdote in the conversation about the renewable
       | mix.
        
         | standeven wrote:
         | Wind often increases when solar energy decreases and vice
         | versa, which is why they are deployed together when possible.
        
       | cm2187 wrote:
       | It's a pity it was really low when it was really cold in early
       | Dec.
        
         | sovande wrote:
         | Really cold weather doesn't have much wind. It's metrology.
         | Without long term storage, wind power during the winter in the
         | northern hemisphere is just meh. Same with any variable
         | renewable energy source. Instead of celebrating the few times
         | renewable energy actually produces energy when it's needed we
         | should celebrate every time a new Nuclear power plant comes
         | online.
        
           | doingtheiroming wrote:
           | The constant 15% that everyone forgets. And the U.K. is still
           | importing French nuclear energy today.
        
           | thehappypm wrote:
           | Generally speaking extreme temps don't coexist with wind for
           | very long. Wind, after all, convects air around, and
           | fundamentally you'll have the extremes mixed with non-extreme
           | air.
           | 
           | Like a heat dome, for example, is only possible when there's
           | no wind to push the dome away.
        
       | alamsterdam wrote:
       | Ireland is generating 75% renewable today also!
       | 
       | https://www.eirgrid.ie/grid/real-time-system-information
        
         | mrspuratic wrote:
         | I understand 75% is the current "limit", I guess for grid
         | stability: https://www.eirgrid.ie/news/eirgrid-and-soni-
         | recognised-rene... (aiming for 95% by 2030, pending ROCOF
         | related upgrades)
         | 
         | The forecast is to beat the record peak 4610MW for wind today
         | too.
        
           | wiredfool wrote:
           | Looks like a peak of 4517MW from wind today, just shy of the
           | record.
        
       | jwhiles wrote:
       | I did think it was very windy today.
        
       | louthy wrote:
       | I'm not surprised, it's like Lord of the Rings outside right now!
        
       | gandalfian wrote:
       | While impressive to be boring electricity use was about 30GW but
       | direct heating by gas and oil consumption was another 150GW or
       | so. Heat pumps might reduce that in theory but still quite a way
       | to go...
        
         | jahnu wrote:
         | If I understand it correctly a heat pump would have produced
         | the same heat with 1/3 the energy?
         | 
         | Yeah a long way to go but considering we are only really at the
         | beginning of the green energy revolution this is all great
         | news. It affirms that we can do it.
        
           | chippiewill wrote:
           | Yes, and a heat pump tends to run at lower output for longer
           | periods of time versus traditional fuel fired boilers so the
           | peak power demand would be even lower still.
        
           | time4tea wrote:
           | Can confirm that in my 1920s house, now with heat pump, my
           | energy use is now a fraction of what it used to be, since
           | replacing boiler with heat pump.
           | 
           | Before: Jan 600kWh electricity, 3300kWh gas = 3900kWh
           | 
           | After: Jan 1580 kWh electricity, 20kWh gas (cooking hob)
           | 
           | So in total, 41% of previous amount, and for heating, 30%.
           | 
           | So yes, for crappy uk houses heat pumps are totally fine.
           | 
           | Adding in solar pv, and a time shifting battery, and the
           | bills are maybe PS2k per year lower than they would be.
        
       | choeger wrote:
       | Germany today (massively rainy and windy day) had a peak of over
       | 50GW. Surprisingly we still had 2GW solar peak even today with
       | the worst possible weather and over 9GW just two days ago.
        
       | TheFuzzball wrote:
       | Yeah it's pretty windy out.
        
       | petercooper wrote:
       | It's particularly impressive to me given the stormy conditions. I
       | remember about twenty years ago when my area got a huge wind farm
       | and they used to "turn it off" if it got a bit too windy which
       | always seemed amusing to me.
       | 
       | Look further at the 'past day' stats on that page, 61% of power
       | came from wind in the past 24 hours and 78.5% from 'zero carbon'
       | sources overall (also including hydro and nuclear). This is
       | fantastic progress.
        
       | vegancap wrote:
       | Was lying in bed last night listening to the wind, thinking 'I
       | wonder how much energy that's generating', checked this morning
       | and wasn't disappointed. If we could sort renewable energy
       | storage out, we'd be laughing energy prices wise. We're a windy
       | little island, after all.
        
         | standeven wrote:
         | Yes, storage is the bottleneck that not many people talk about.
         | The transition to renewable energy is still young and already
         | we're seeing negative spot prices. My company is working on
         | affordable, lithium-free storage for the grid to address this.
        
           | vegancap wrote:
           | Well, I wish you and your company the very best of luck and
           | hope you succeed! It's going to change the game completely
           | once that problem's addressed
        
       | superposeur wrote:
       | Great Scot! 21.81 Gigawatts!
       | 
       | https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fzuO9wHrvGg
        
       | fulafel wrote:
       | See also: https://theconversation.com/britain-is-a-net-
       | electricity-exp... (" Britain is a net electricity exporter for
       | first time in 44 years ")
       | 
       | Seems the links to/from rest of europe are working out fairly
       | well. Is there some web source that would show the "trade
       | balance" on eg monthly basis?
        
         | speps wrote:
         | You can see a live map there:
         | https://app.electricitymaps.com/map
        
           | fulafel wrote:
           | Maybe I'm missing something but there doesn't seem to be
           | import/export angle shown there?
        
         | youngtaff wrote:
         | Part of the reason we were a net export last winter was the gas
         | pipeline's to continental Europe were at capacity, so we were
         | burning the LNG here and then exporting the electricity instead
         | 
         | Since then Germany has increases it's own LNG capability and
         | gas storage in Europe was filled much sooner
        
       | Angostura wrote:
       | This would explain why yesterday evening and this evening Octopus
       | Energy's electricity price is negative (I'm on their agile
       | tariff). My olar batteries will be going on forced charge during
       | that time and my electric water heater (usually unused - we are
       | on gas) will automatically come on.
        
       | Angostura wrote:
       | If anyone doesn't know it - Gridwatch is fun
       | 
       | http://gridwatch.templar.co.uk
        
       | zeristor wrote:
       | Caveat: I have gleaned bits and bobs from across the web, but I
       | do not work in the UK power industry.
       | 
       | I believe there might be a lot of wind power, but the UK grid
       | doesn't yet have the capacity to transfer it, with London and the
       | SE being a key user of power. Until then a proportion of wind
       | power needs to be curtained, and gas power generated near the
       | South East.
       | 
       | A coming link from Scotland to Norway should allow power to be
       | exported, in addition to the England Norway link.
       | 
       | The main issue I believe is the Scotland to England link, a
       | second interconnect, this time on the Eastern side of the British
       | isles is being built.
       | 
       | Batteries can only soak up only so much extra wind power, and
       | currently there isn't much call for desalination plants in
       | Glasgow.
        
       | youngtaff wrote:
       | Robin Hawkes GB Renewables Map is great for looking at wind farms
       | and how much energy they're producing
       | 
       | https://renewables-map.robinhawkes.com/#5/55/-3.2
        
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       (page generated 2023-12-21 23:02 UTC)