[HN Gopher] An AI that learns about chemical reactions and desig...
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       An AI that learns about chemical reactions and designs a procedure
       to make them
        
       Author : geox
       Score  : 109 points
       Date   : 2023-12-20 17:32 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (new.nsf.gov)
 (TXT) w3m dump (new.nsf.gov)
        
       | 6stringmerc wrote:
       | Wait, it works cheaper than Post Docs? I am somewhat serious
       | because I am a musician. In Dallas my view is Bench Science is
       | woefully underpaid and over performs at an unsustainable dynamic.
        
         | postpawl wrote:
         | > I am somewhat serious because I am a musician.
         | 
         | ?
        
           | hiddencost wrote:
           | Saying the post docs might have it worse than musicians.
        
           | tejtm wrote:
           | musicians/artists are the archetypal poster children for
           | intense training with underpaid work. That a musician is
           | calling out science work as the same, is notable as the
           | musician would have the experience to know.
        
         | ska wrote:
         | Typical post-docs may be the worst systemic ratio of pay to
         | skills and experience anywhere. Probably related: it's
         | otherwise often a pretty amazing gig. Not universal obviously.
        
       | JonChesterfield wrote:
       | Copied text from Wikipedia somehow seems different from deriving
       | the nobel prize winning process from a dataset that didn't have
       | the answer in it.
       | 
       | And downvotes. The article presents this as a magic box capable
       | of novel work, and some distance down says it found the answers
       | on Wikipedia. Those are different things, whether you're excited
       | about LLMs or not.
        
         | Obscurity4340 wrote:
         | Can you clarify what you're trying to say, I'm a little slow
         | today hehe
        
         | devmor wrote:
         | Definitely different things but I suppose "machine that finds
         | related prior research for me effortlessly" is still quite
         | useful.
        
           | obmelvin wrote:
           | Yes, missing prior work at best can impact your review, and
           | at worst can mean you waste a significant amount of research
           | time
        
         | striking wrote:
         | > In less than four minutes, Coscientist had designed an
         | accurate procedure for producing the required reactions using
         | chemicals provided by the team. When it sought to carry out its
         | procedure in the physical world with robots, it made a mistake
         | in the code it wrote to control a device that heats and shakes
         | liquid samples. Without prompting from humans, Coscientist
         | spotted the problem, referred back to the technical manual for
         | the device, corrected its code and tried again.
         | 
         | What does it matter that it looked up the reactions on
         | Wikipedia? They're building a "coscientist", not an AI-based
         | Nobel prize winning researcher.
        
           | Filligree wrote:
           | > What does it matter that it looked up the reactions on
           | Wikipedia? They're building a "coscientist", not an AI-based
           | Nobel prize winning researcher.
           | 
           | Well, quite. This is attempting to automate the boring, time-
           | consuming _and dangerous_ part of chemical research.
           | 
           | We should be applauding.
        
         | exit wrote:
         | "a magic box capable of novel work"
         | 
         | or a box whose content can be cleanly swapped out with future
         | iterations which already demonstrate the potential for novel
         | discovery:
         | 
         | https://thenextweb.com/news/deepminds-ai-finds-solution-to-d...
         | 
         | "Researchers claim it is the first time an LLM has made a novel
         | scientific discovery"
        
           | riku_iki wrote:
           | > "Researchers claim it is the first time an LLM has made a
           | novel scientific discovery"
           | 
           | LLM didn't make discovery on its own in that work, it played
           | role in one step of unknown importance, other steps were lots
           | of manual coding and lots of CPUs to brute force solution.
        
         | teepo wrote:
         | I think the point was that the application includes the source
         | attribute of the data.
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | so crediting prior work is the novel thing done by the AI?
        
         | bglazer wrote:
         | You should read the actual paper before dismissing it. Fig 6
         | and the surrounding discussion shows that their system is able
         | to iteratively optimize a reaction by adding steps and changing
         | reaction conditions. Based on how poorly the model does on its
         | first try, it seems unlikely that it had already just memorized
         | the best reaction. So, they show that the model can try things,
         | observe results, and try again.
         | 
         | Also their model converts the "wikipedia answer" into steps
         | that they run on a robot, which hasn't been done before for
         | this specific reaction.
        
         | mym1990 wrote:
         | Novel work can often be accomplished by taking two existing
         | methods and implementing parts of both, it doesn't have to be a
         | eureka moment that stems from nothing. In this case, seeing
         | what went wrong in one experiment, seeing what went right in
         | another, combining the best of both, and re-implementing...is
         | novel work.
        
       | thenerdhead wrote:
       | "Consider a future device ... in which an individual stores all
       | his books, records, and communications, and which is mechanized
       | so that it may be consulted with exceeding speed and flexibility.
       | It is an enlarged intimate supplement to his memory."
       | 
       | By Vannevar Bush
        
         | Obscurity4340 wrote:
         | The Memex
        
           | KRAKRISMOTT wrote:
           | A great idea until Big Brother subpoenas you and decides that
           | pleading the fifth does not apply for electronic devices.
        
             | jahewson wrote:
             | It doesn't apply to paper documents either. Though it does
             | apply to your passcode :)
        
             | mistermann wrote:
             | "Say, that's a nice 'democratic' governmental organization
             | you have there....would be a real shame if something was to
             | happen to it."
        
             | meesles wrote:
             | I would assume a device that records data is already fair
             | game for evidence by legal means. If you want to get
             | technocratic about it, you'd need to start arguing that
             | this kind of tool is an extension of your
             | mind/consciousness of which you are currently entitled
             | privacy to (probably more due to lack of tech than strong
             | ethics). But there's no tech the government does not want
             | to regulate, so your version is probably right.
        
           | Obscurity4340 wrote:
           | Smartphones are basically already "The Memex", didnt really
           | expect this would start te current thread aha
        
         | obmelvin wrote:
         | Read/discussed "As We May Think" in a grad school HCI class -
         | highly recommend it to anyone interested in the history of
         | computing.
         | 
         | It is available behind a paywall on The Atlantic website, but
         | you can see the original magazine layout here (which is even
         | cooler IMO) - https://archive.org/details/as-we-may-think
        
         | mensetmanusman wrote:
         | Building 13 @ MIT is named after him.
         | 
         | Cool to think this tech will be there soon :)
        
           | ithkuil wrote:
           | I thought we already had that. We humans are never happy with
           | the current stuff
        
       | figassis wrote:
       | Looking forward to having my own personal Jarvis
        
       | teeray wrote:
       | Yeah science! Yeah Mr. GPT!
        
       | mcphage wrote:
       | It seems... unlikely, that a LLM built from scraped webpages,
       | would be able to predict the results of novel chemical reactions.
       | I don't really understand what information in the model's source
       | would lead to new insights into chemistry.
        
       | calebkaiser wrote:
       | For anyone interested in the applications of ML to chemistry,
       | PostEra has been doing some pretty cool stuff in medicinal
       | chemistry for the last several years: https://postera.ai/
        
       | mahastore wrote:
       | This framework of retrieving information , analyzing it with
       | program code as an output , programming machines to do something
       | , retrieve information about the output of the machines ,
       | analyzing it to see if it matches the expectations and if not
       | repeat and rinse until you get the perfect outcome ....
       | 
       | seems useful in general for all kind of AI agents. Is this
       | framework open source yet?
        
       | joshuamcginnis wrote:
       | This is identical to what I've been building and using my own gpt
       | (via ChatGPT) with API integration to automate full genome base-
       | calling, assembly, annotation and prediction pipelines. Using
       | this approach, me and my team can use it to debug pipeline
       | failures, interpret the results, draw inferences and create
       | context-dependent experiments. There's no leap in the tech beyond
       | GPT facilitating the interaction with APIs, but it is a
       | completely new way of working. This is what I can currently do:
       | 
       | User: Show me my genomes
       | 
       | ChatGPT: Here's a list of your genomes ... [API call to GET
       | /genomes]
       | 
       | User: Annotate genome #nnnn
       | 
       | ChatGPT: Kicking off annotation [API call to POST /annotate]
       | 
       | User: Show me what genes are related to growth regulation for the
       | genome
       | 
       | ChatGPT: The genome appears to have several genes related to
       | growth regulation. Here's a list [API call to GET
       | /genome/X/annotations] ...
       | 
       | User: Design an experiment to knock-out this gene using CRISPR in
       | Aspergillus niger, include the guideRNA specific to this gene.
       | 
       | ChatGPT: Here you go...
        
         | Nesco wrote:
         | Really interesting, what would be your real-world use cases?
        
           | joshuamcginnis wrote:
           | This is the real-world use-case! We're using to accelerate
           | the discovery and elucidation of novel or unknown gene
           | function in previously unstudied fungal strains.
        
             | Nesco wrote:
             | I should have meant, have you already found customers? I am
             | also working on a project on genomics, which is very
             | orthogonal to yours, and finding customers in this field
             | the difficult part
        
               | joshuamcginnis wrote:
               | We're pursuing grant-funded research at the moment. We
               | have some hunches on some specific fungal genetic
               | functions but they need to be better characterized before
               | we think about commercialization.
        
         | ck_one wrote:
         | Why do you need ChatGPT for the API calls?
        
           | joshuamcginnis wrote:
           | As an example, asking questions like "show me which genes
           | from my genome are related to growth regulation" requires an
           | API call to give ChatGPT a list of annotated genes from the
           | genome we're studying so it can then filter them into growth
           | regulation related genes. Leveraging ChatGPT's extensive
           | knowledge of genes lets us find new insights into our newly
           | assembled genomes much faster.
        
         | candiddevmike wrote:
         | Is this doing anything more than using ChatGPT as a frontend? I
         | thought based on your comment ChatGPT would run all of that,
         | not just call an API that does the actual work.
        
           | joshuamcginnis wrote:
           | The parent article isn't doing anything more than using
           | ChatGPT as a frontend either. The API does all the _work_
           | (pipeline running, robot control, etc) while ChatGPT uses
           | it's vast knowledge to interpret, analyze and iterate on
           | future commands sent to the API.
        
         | throwawaymaths wrote:
         | Oh God this is going to be really bad, there are so so so many
         | misannotated genes, even well known ones that have more or less
         | "wrong names"[0], that a lot of lazy scientists are going to
         | either be led astray or totally miss targets as a result from
         | an uncritically science-believing LLM
         | 
         | [0] do you really really think ferritin is _best_ described as
         | an  "iron carrier"?
        
       | gigel82 wrote:
       | I have a friend that works on Azure Quantum Elements and they
       | said the Copilot integration is pretty impressive. I imagine
       | that's a very specific niche though so likely not interesting if
       | you're not into material science or computational chemistry.
        
       | babyshake wrote:
       | Is there something along these lines for physics experiments?
        
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       (page generated 2023-12-20 23:01 UTC)