[HN Gopher] He felt 'creatively dead', then harnessed the power ...
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       He felt 'creatively dead', then harnessed the power of boredom
        
       Author : mooreds
       Score  : 93 points
       Date   : 2023-12-17 22:05 UTC (2 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.npr.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.npr.org)
        
       | mock-possum wrote:
       | Could've used more details on how exactly that process worked,
       | but - big Song Exploder fan.
        
         | BiteCode_dev wrote:
         | Any long time with yourself will do: walking for days in the
         | mountains, isolating youself in a cabin in the wood to write, a
         | meditation retreat...
         | 
         | It's hard to have your own thoughts when the entire world is
         | constantly inputting its own in your psyche.
         | 
         | After long periods of silence, you start emptying and the mind
         | fills the void. Ideas come in.
         | 
         | With practice, it will stop filling the void. But this isn't
         | necessary if all you want is producing new ideas.
         | 
         | Even being bored is not necessary, but we are so not used to
         | less input that we easily get bored.
        
           | JKCalhoun wrote:
           | Road trips are my (not so) secret sauce to boredom and, as
           | pointed out, ultimately my more creative ideas.
        
             | cableshaft wrote:
             | Same. I've had a lot of game design ideas while driving on
             | the road.
             | 
             | Doesn't work for me if I have music with lyrics on, though.
             | Sometimes podcasts work, because something they say might
             | spark an idea, but songs with lyrics don't work at all.
        
       | petercooper wrote:
       | _I started doing Song Exploder as a kind of distraction, you
       | know, a little side hobby idea that could also be a way to
       | hopefully give myself a day job in between tours and making
       | records and things like that._
       | 
       | It might even be the opposite of "boredom" but I think this is
       | pretty common and a neat technique if you're feeling "blocked" in
       | your pursuits: do something that pushes your buttons but still
       | uses other aspects of your knowledge and skills, and you can find
       | another way through.
        
       | mattgreenrocks wrote:
       | > I would set everything else aside. I wouldn't look at my
       | emails. I wouldn't have any meetings. I wouldn't do anything for
       | the podcast. Just music. It allowed some space for my brain to
       | get bored.
       | 
       | I feel creatively dead, but mostly only at work. Never have
       | enough time/space to let things just settle down, it seems like.
       | 
       | This might be why I still resist management stuff: I dislike
       | accepting responsibility for the problems of the org because I
       | know they will eat up more time and energy than any accompanying
       | pay increase. And then I get resentful because I'm supposed to be
       | the one holding things together.
        
         | dfxm12 wrote:
         | Welcome to the rat race. Just wait until you get the
         | responsibilities of a manager anyway without the pay increase!
         | Might as well fight for that title...
        
           | ravenstine wrote:
           | Is it really so inevitable? I sure hope not. Unless I get a
           | meaningful amount of real autonomy, I am not cut out for
           | management. Fortunately, any vague promises I've ever been
           | given for more managerial roles have not actually
           | materialized. I want to say no if they ever do.
        
             | tomca32 wrote:
             | It's not, at least not from my experience, but you have to
             | be vocal about what you want.
             | 
             | I was offered a managerial position multiple times and
             | declined it every time saying that it would be a loss for
             | both myself and the company. I'm way more useful in an
             | individual contributor role and a better way to leverage my
             | experience would be to be a cross-team IC and help on the
             | more demanding projects/initiatives.
             | 
             | Eventually, after being vocal about it for a while and
             | actively helping other teams with parts of the system they
             | didn't have experience with, that's what I got. The bad
             | part is that most challenging work often ends up in my lap.
             | The good part is that most challenging work ends up in my
             | lap.
        
               | sarkhan wrote:
               | Eeh, at some point, a nepotic Manager will move resources
               | around in a way that an IC (should be manager) will be
               | banging head on the railing with a question why am I not
               | calling the shots.
        
               | spydum wrote:
               | and often thats when you know it's time to look for a new
               | manager (inside or outside). Most folks with competency
               | to solve hard problems have options
        
             | Log_out_ wrote:
             | A colleague of mine is stuck in this, tried to fight it all
             | his life. Then they fired half the org and expected the
             | survivors to self manage in the it ruins without the
             | knowledge of the fired predecessors. And so he is in
             | meetings every day as they manage the recovering. Hardly
             | gets to code..
        
           | ericmcer wrote:
           | Work is what you make of it, you can definitely prove
           | yourself to be competent and valuable while not becoming
           | critical. Just be respected enough to get your yearly
           | raise/bonus, survive layoffs and get future referrals and
           | recommendations. Not super complicated really.
        
         | BLKNSLVR wrote:
         | I thought I must have written that myself in some kind of fugue
         | state. I'm in the same boat.
         | 
         | What I find strange about it, is that I'm the opposite outside
         | of work. Life life is just great, I'm improving at sports and
         | learning new things in my side projects.
         | 
         | But at work I feel like I've got writers block. Any progress is
         | super hard earned.
        
           | notnaut wrote:
           | I'm jealous as hell. I can only improve when given a list of
           | tasks and a carrot/stick. Tried for decades to figure out how
           | to self impose and have not had luck yet!
        
         | twodave wrote:
         | My 2c--I went ahead and took the pay increase and added
         | responsibility, then used it as an excuse to only do the most
         | impactful thing possible at any given time. Leads to telling
         | people "no" a lot, but also less stress.
        
       | throwup238 wrote:
       | Text only version of NPR? What is this goodness and why don't
       | more sites have one?!
        
         | flobosg wrote:
         | Here's some lists of text-only websites:
         | 
         | * https://sjmulder.nl/en/textonly.html
         | 
         | * https://greycoder.com/a-list-of-text-only-new-sites/
        
         | 1over137 wrote:
         | also:
         | 
         | https://www.cbc.ca/lite/
         | 
         | https://lite.cnn.com/
        
       | dmillar wrote:
       | " _HIRWAY: ...Just music. It allowed some space for my brain to
       | get bored. Another thing that I learned was how much boredom was,
       | like, an essential part of creativity. Maybe boredom is too
       | strong of a word for it, but it 's something like..._"
       | mindfulness.
       | 
       | I remember hearing Sam Harris (I think) say something to the
       | effect of 'once you reach some stage/awareness of mindfulness,
       | you can never be truly bored.' Like, if you're bored, you're not
       | paying attention. That's stuck with me.
        
       | guerrilla wrote:
       | Meta: Why are there fads like this? Like do people not see this?
       | Everyone's suddenly so interested in how great boredom is, before
       | this it was some other crap, then something else. I don't have a
       | point but I just find it mildly irritating for some reason. It
       | does make sense to collectively research things and exchange
       | ideas but at the same time there's something off about it when it
       | comes to mass media, like it's lazy or something.
        
         | Jensson wrote:
         | We know A, B and C are useful. Media just likes to copy each
         | other so when one writes that one of those are good others
         | wants to write the same thing so you see:
         | 
         | Media: A is the shit, everyone do A!
         | 
         | Media few years later: B is best, B B B!
         | 
         | Media even more later: C, never forget C!
        
         | ravenstine wrote:
         | I, too, find it incredibly obvious. Today's fads that are at
         | all adjacent to self-help or productivity are usually doing
         | either of the following:
         | 
         | - Inverting an existing idea
         | 
         | - Excessively applying mechanistic explanations to human
         | problems (see Huberman and dopamine)
         | 
         | To me it's really obvious, but I'm sure there's a constant
         | supply of new buyers who don't know any better.
        
         | an_ko wrote:
         | Fads come in waves because it's easier and safer to do or
         | discuss something when it's already on the mind of people
         | around you.
         | 
         | Perhaps the irritation comes from having seen enough media that
         | you've started to see this meta-level pattern, which is stale
         | and eternal.
         | 
         | [Snarky overused The Matrix movie reference goes here.]
        
         | Zambyte wrote:
         | People have been interested in intentionally inducing boredom
         | for literally hundreds of thousands of years (under the name
         | "meditation"), so I think it is safe to say it is not a fad by
         | now.
        
           | guerrilla wrote:
           | Counterpoint: That's a very superficial conception of
           | meditation.
        
           | akomtu wrote:
           | Meditation is more about learning to focus attention on
           | boring things and discovering that the effort itself is
           | rewarding. It's a lame materialistic description, but it's
           | much closer to the truth. Doing gym stuff is a good analogy:
           | moving weights around and to their original position looks
           | silly to an outsider, but that's because the outsiders try to
           | judge with their minds what can only be understood thru
           | direct experience.
        
           | broscillator wrote:
           | For how long have you practiced meditation?
        
         | saiya-jin wrote:
         | Herd mentality. We all have it to some extent, even when
         | actively trying to suppress it (me for example). It made human
         | society what it is, and most probably was a great survival
         | advantage early on.
         | 
         | Now it makes masses susceptible to populists, but wasn't it
         | always the case? Just that masses before were even more
         | meaningless and powerless without things like voting rights.
        
           | BLKNSLVR wrote:
           | +1 for suppressing herd mentality.
           | 
           | If I find myself in agreement with a majority of people, I
           | usually don't have a long distance to travel to work out
           | where I've gone wrong.
        
         | RankingMember wrote:
         | "His business was 'approaching bankruptcy', until he harnessed
         | the power of self-delusion"
        
         | kgwxd wrote:
         | Stumble on a well, pump it dry, keep on stumblin'
        
       | markrages wrote:
       | "Creativity is the residue of time wasted" -- dubiously
       | attributed to Einstein
        
       | bilsbie wrote:
       | What's the actionable take away from this?
        
         | bryancoxwell wrote:
         | I don't believe it's the goal of Enlighten Me to produce
         | actionable takeaways.
        
       | SoftTalker wrote:
       | On the subject of intimate conversation...
       | 
       | > I think it means that you get to a place where you feel
       | comfortable being vulnerable with someone else. It's sort of a
       | shared environment that gets created between both people, where
       | everyone involved in the conversation can say, yeah, I'm going to
       | let down my guard. I'm going to reveal something true about
       | myself
       | 
       | This would be exceedingly difficult for me to do, especially with
       | someone I just met. I pretty much don't do it with anyone, to be
       | honest. Seems like there are only downsides, especially in the
       | age of social media where someone says something that is is then
       | quoted out of context and follows you forever. Also why I'm not
       | on social media.
        
         | thefaux wrote:
         | There is tremendous upside to intimacy (which I admittedly
         | struggle with too). By closing yourself off, you foreclose the
         | possibility of deep relationships in which you are truly seem
         | for the whole person you are. We are all deeply flawed and that
         | is almost paradoxically what makes lovable. It is wise to
         | protect yourself but the walks we build to protect ourselves
         | become a prison.
        
           | metadat wrote:
           | Your comment really struck a chord with me. Wise words.
        
       | bilsbie wrote:
       | I never know when I have boredom vs dopamine starvation. Having
       | lots of possible things to do but not finding them motivating.
        
         | broscillator wrote:
         | How would you distinguish them semantically?
        
       | aschearer wrote:
       | I recently stumbled upon "Artists Way a Spiritual Path to Higher
       | Creativity" and really resonate with a practice it puts forward:
       | "morning pages" and "artist dates." The exact nomenclature isn't
       | important, but the idea of a "signal and response" pattern is, in
       | my opinion, spot on. Like meditation, it's one of those things
       | that sounds far fetched but that you can try for yourself -- and
       | the results will speak for themselves.
        
         | broscillator wrote:
         | Dude I'm on week 5 of this book rn, the morning pages really
         | are quite something.
         | 
         | The artist dates were harder to incorporate at first but I
         | think I got the hang of it.
        
           | aschearer wrote:
           | I was fortunate to stumble upon the practice by accident. I
           | was journaling just because, and my two dogs ensure I have
           | plenty of solitary walks through nature. It really is
           | incredibly important to have that time, and to maintain a
           | curious, open mind.
           | 
           | Likely there are other ingredients. Some sort of catalyst may
           | be needed for the process to get into gear. (Full disclosure,
           | I'm still partway through the book so perhaps Ms. Cameron
           | discloses them, but I stand by signal-response practice from
           | direct experience.)
           | 
           | To hazard a guess, I would say joy/wonder may that catalyst.
           | Or rather, our sense of wonder will lead us to joy which
           | triggers the necessary inner reaction.
           | 
           | I'm curious to hear more about your experiences.
        
       | akomtu wrote:
       | Creativity rests on two pillars:
       | 
       | 1. Not wasting your energy on irrelevant things, that is
       | temperance. Everyone knows what those things are. It seems
       | obvious that without this inner energy, you can't turn any of the
       | creative ideas into reality. At most you'd be a passive observer
       | of those ideas.
       | 
       | 2. Not cluttering your mind with rubbish. This is poetically
       | called the inner peace, and it's often confused with boredom.
       | It's not necessary to retreat into a cabin in the mountains, as
       | the inner peace comes from within. Once that state is reached,
       | you can start seeing reflections of the stars in the sky - the
       | higher ideas that inspire creativity.
       | 
       | Creativity, in essense, is the need to express yourself. It's the
       | reason behind the desire to live or any existence at all. Even
       | savages are driven by this need, they just find different outlets
       | for self expression. It's also what gives such power to the need
       | for pro-creation.
        
       | havan_agrawal wrote:
       | I might be suffering from imposter syndrome, but I feel like I'm
       | not the right audience for "taking advantage of boredom".
       | 
       | I feel people who benefit from this "diffuse state" are those who
       | already have a base level of competence in their field or
       | challenging problems they're trying to solve, and so boredom
       | gives their brain an opportunity to express creativity in that
       | domain.
       | 
       | For me, my brain is just "quiet" when bored. It doesn't come up
       | with "novel ways to solve problem X", or "a brand new idea". When
       | it is at all noisy, it is mostly regurgitation of thoughts I've
       | already had before, replays of conversations from the past week,
       | mundane things like that.
       | 
       | Does anyone else feel this way, or is it just me?
        
       | traviswingo wrote:
       | I didn't have time to read the entire article, so forgive me if I
       | blatantly state what it said.
       | 
       | But, isn't "being bored" leading to enhanced productivity deeply
       | rooted in neuroscience, particularly with regards to dopamine and
       | the reward centers of the brain?
       | 
       | Dopamine is incredibly powerful when understood properly. It can
       | both be the reason you can't seem to start, and also the thing
       | that allows you to accomplish your goals. Your brain uses
       | dopamine to get you to do more stuff that's "good for you."
       | 
       | The problem is, everything in our lives today is engineered to
       | release dopamine, so we get "rewarded" for doing nothing.
       | 
       | By being bored, you dilute yourself down to either doing nothing,
       | or doing the thing you've been putting off. It doesn't take long
       | before the thing starts looking appealing, and you get rewarded
       | for doing it.
       | 
       | This is essentially what people experience when they do a
       | "dopamine fast," which isn't really a thing at all, it's more of
       | a fast from stuff that isn't productive. It simply works because
       | we really seem to have a dopamine limit within a short time
       | period, where, once reached, things that used to be enjoyable
       | simply aren't anymore.
       | 
       | Same goes for creativity, motivation, etc. Just stepping away
       | from all the stimulation brings those baseline levels back down
       | and allows you to get excited about doing stuff again, even if
       | it's not insanely fun.
        
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