[HN Gopher] VW is putting buttons back in cars
___________________________________________________________________
VW is putting buttons back in cars
Author : sklargh
Score : 290 points
Date : 2023-12-18 19:24 UTC (3 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.thedrive.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.thedrive.com)
| jqpabc123 wrote:
| Touch screen is good for setup and info display but should not be
| used for active control while driving.
|
| Hiding the wipers or lights or temperature controls deep in menus
| is a flippin' disaster.
|
| Hyundai has about the right balance from what I have seen.
| silisili wrote:
| IMO it shouldn't be a touchscreen at all. By nature you have to
| look at it to interact. Just have a nontouch screen for display
| purposes, and physical buttons to interact with it as
| necessary.
| doubled112 wrote:
| I can't put my phone in a cup holder and change songs at a
| red light, they'll take my license.
|
| Yet the car comes with a device I also need to take my eyes
| off the road and poke around at.
| Tagbert wrote:
| Which you don't need to poke at while you are driving.
| kube-system wrote:
| Unless there are safety critical controls on those
| screens, which was the root complaint in this thread.
| jqpabc123 wrote:
| Yes, it's kinda comical isn't it.
|
| It's illegal to use your cellphone while driving in many
| areas --- so they built a cellphone UI into the car ---
| which is every bit as distracting and dangerous to use
| while driving.
| mikestew wrote:
| _Hyundai has about the right balance from what I have seen._
|
| Owner of a '23 Ioniq 5 here. Hyundai has struck _a_ balance,
| but not quite the right balance. There are physical buttons,
| but they don 't control the climate or seat warmers. In fact,
| one of my few annoyances with this car is when I use the
| physical volume button, my finger often brushes up against the
| capacitive "climate" button area, hence flipping on the heat
| when I just wanted to turn the podcast down.
|
| Now, there are the usual physical controls like wiper and turn
| signals, but that's not because Hyundai are paragons of control
| design, but rather because they're not idiots. And the
| complaints above are not _that_ big a deal, as the "buttons"
| are right at hand. But with just a minor tweak or two, they
| could have done much better. And, as other commenters point
| out, it could be much, much worse.
| coldpie wrote:
| Ioniq 5 is at the top of my list for when we go car shopping,
| probably late next year. Coming from a pre-touchscreen-era
| 2011 Mazda, I'm pretty nervous about the UI disaster cars
| have turned into these days. I wish Mazda would build a good
| EV, but it sounds like it's not happening any time in the
| near term.
| bdcravens wrote:
| Also consider the EV6, since they're the same platform
| (very much the same, though have a few UX differences, as I
| described in another comment)
| coldpie wrote:
| Cheers, will do.
| mikestew wrote:
| Oh, it's not so bad that I would not consider buying the
| car (like we did with VW). Day-to-day it's not a huge deal.
| If the auto-climate is already set to what you like, then
| you just hit the clearly-labelled, but-still-capacitive,
| "climate" button and you're done. And the voice control
| actually...works; what will they think of next? :-)
|
| But it certainly could be better.
| jqpabc123 wrote:
| _There are physical buttons, but they don 't control the
| climate or seat warmers._
|
| Most Hyundai's I've seen have a physical button for the seat
| warmers and a nice 1 knob control for automated climate. Just
| turn to the temperature you want and the car handles whatever
| is needed to get you there. It don't get any simpler.
| bdcravens wrote:
| Own a Kia EV6, the sibling to that car. I'm unsure if it's
| the case on the Ioniq 5, but the GT Line has that same
| problem, but the lesser trim that I have (Wind) actually has
| real buttons for those controls. (Wind doesn't have HUD, auto
| door handles, or sunroof)
| mikestew wrote:
| We have the top-trim Ioniq, but AFAICT the controls are the
| same as lower-spec vehicles. It is interesting how the two
| cars are badge-engineered, but have such different
| interiors.
| jdewerd wrote:
| About damn time.
| FredPret wrote:
| I always buy gadgets with physical buttons when possible.
|
| - Microwave ovens should have a knob-button combo that I can work
| in 0.5 seconds without looking or reading the manual
|
| - Ovens and stoves should have knobs I can turn with wet or oven-
| mitted hands
|
| - Cars should have volume buttons I can twist or smack into
| silence without thinking about it for more than a moment
|
| - Same with seat heaters, wipers, and anything I might do while
| the car is moving
| jpk wrote:
| > Ovens and stoves should have knobs I can turn with wet or
| oven-mitted hands
|
| Ooh, yeah this is a big one for me now. A few years ago I got a
| new range and the controls are all capacitive touch. Mitts are
| a minor inconvenience, but also sometimes cooking is messy and
| liquid gets spilled here or there. Now imagine how your phone
| works when you get some rain on the screen... yeah, it's not
| great. I've learned enough tricks to live with it since it's
| honestly the only thing I don't like about that range, but next
| time I'll probably shell out a little more for knobs if I have
| to.
| FredPret wrote:
| There's a reason the most important controls on phones (which
| are all about interactive interfaces) are physical buttons!
| kube-system wrote:
| I have a clothes dryer with capacitive touch buttons. When
| the ambient conditions are just right, static will build up
| when it is drying clothes, and it will change its own
| settings randomly.
| maximus-decimus wrote:
| Aren't dryers grounded?
| kube-system wrote:
| Yes. Although I'm not sure if mine was designed to ground
| the plastic front panel that the buttons are on.
| mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote:
| I've used a stovetop like that in the past. I don't
| understand how this crap gets through even rudimentary
| testing. First time I used it I damn near started a fire
| because the controls became unusuable at the worst possible
| time. And false inputs are a real problem too.
| serial_dev wrote:
| I bought a Dacia Duster and I love the physical buttons and
| knobs. It's a cheap brand with tech lagging behind the current
| by about ten years (guesstimate), which is annoying when it
| comes to safety features, but I love that I don't need to read
| the manual back to back to understand all its features and I
| can control the AC in curvy mountain roads without hesitation.
| And, big plus, they didn't invent their own silly overly
| complicated custom OS, you just connect your phone and you are
| good to go.
| FirmwareBurner wrote:
| _> I bought a Dacia Duster and I love the physical buttons
| and knobs_
|
| You know what's funny? The 2024 Dacia Duster, still a cheap
| but functional car, has 4 physical switches to control the
| windows, unlike the mess that's the VW ID.4 which went full
| cost cutting mode to the extreme.
|
| How did VW fall so low? If a budget Franco-Romanian brand can
| school them on UX, then the Chinese will eat them alive.
| drewzero1 wrote:
| Yes, that has been one of my biggest gripes with our Ford
| Fusion. The seat heater control is on the touch screen which is
| (a) not very responsive or accurate when cold and (b) taken
| over by the rear view camera when backing up. If you miss the
| seat heat button, it goes to another view where the buttons
| move and are only slightly bigger. Almost all of the climate
| and radio controls are mirrored in touch buttons under the
| screen that also can't be felt while driving or operated with
| gloves.
|
| I really like the climate controls on my slightly older Jetta,
| with three knobs: temp, fan, and position. The left- and right-
| most knobs have a button in the center that controls the heated
| seats. VW had a perfect system and I hope more automakers
| rediscover knobs and buttons soon.
| bryanlarsen wrote:
| The best UI on a gadget more complicated than a toaster that
| I've experienced was on a Maytag commercial washer/dryer combo.
| Just knobs, no buttons, let alone capacitive buttons or touch
| screens. Reminiscent of the old dumb machines but a sprinkling
| of smarts that made it better, not more complicated.
|
| It also shows the power of a good vendor. My uncle had a dealer
| he knew well and trusted, so bought them sight unseen when his
| old ones broke. Probably paid extra for the commercial line
| rather than the consumer line, but I assume they will last way
| longer too.
| vidanay wrote:
| The microwave oven we had in the 80's when I was a kid had two
| knobs, and a single button.
|
| Knob 1: A rotary timer. Twist it so the little arrow points at
| the time to cook (+/- 30 seconds)
|
| Knob 2: Nobody knows. This was some sort of a "mode" selector
| that wasn't touched in eight years as far as I remember.
|
| Button: More similar to a space bar on a mechanical keyboard -
| push to start cooking.
|
| The door was just a simple "pull to open", there was no "eject"
| button to open the door.
|
| When it was done cooking, there was a single "ding".
| jeffrallen wrote:
| Team Amana Radar Range, represent!
| vidanay wrote:
| Nailed it. The thing weighed like 100 lbs too.
| twisteriffic wrote:
| Panasonic I bet, with woodgrain printed metal case. I can
| still feel the satisfying clunk the door on ours made.
| vidanay wrote:
| Nope, Amana Radar Range
| arp242 wrote:
| > Ovens and stoves should have knobs I can turn with wet or
| oven-mitted hands
|
| Stoves with touchscreen buttons that become completely unusable
| as soon as more that 4 water molecules get within a 2 metre
| radius are infuriating beyond belief.
|
| I sometimes had to disable the fuses to turn off the indiction
| stove. I kid you not. It would beep incessantly if something
| spilled near the controls (it was all one flat surface, so easy
| thing to do when e.g. boiling anything) and I just couldn't
| turn the fucking thing off.
|
| I genuinely wonder if the people who designed this have ever
| tried using it themselves in any real-world conditions. It's
| just broken.
| leoedin wrote:
| I have had a couple of AEG capacitive touch stoves, and
| they've been pretty good. You do need to have a tea towel to
| hand to aggressively wipe any spills near the controls - but
| the stove detects if the controls are wet, locks them out and
| then gives you about 10 seconds before it turns itself
| completely off - which is normally enough time to dry the
| spill.
|
| The benefits in ease of cleaning outweigh the negatives in my
| opinion. And I use that stove a lot.
| arp242 wrote:
| I don't recall what brand I had, it was at my previous
| rental, and it would indeed "lock up", which is fine but it
| was damn near impossible to unlock it after that and it
| just kept on beeping at a it "hurts my ears" volume level.
| And dealing with the finicky controls while that's
| inflicted on you while your food is burning ... yeah, I'd
| rather spend a bit of extra time cleaning.
| georgeecollins wrote:
| My wife and I just bought a very expensive range, to replace a
| very nice one that was probably twenty years or older. Every
| time they showed us something with a touchscreen or display I
| was like, "next". Imagine how stuff like that is going to age.
| With most home fixtures I have found the more basic and
| standard (although not necessarily the cheapest) the more
| likely they are to survive and be repairable. No fancy faucets
| please! I can measure water myself.
| rurp wrote:
| Yeah it's crazy how my process for evaluating expensive
| purchases (cars, appliances) has changed from looking for
| what I _do_ want to mostly focusing on what I _don 't_ want.
| So many products have gotten bogged down with anti-features
| like touch screens, AI nonsense, or shitty phone apps.
|
| When I was car shopping a couple years ago I immediately
| disqualified at least half of the ones I looked at because of
| garbage features. Now I'm looking for a new fridge and that
| market hasn't gotten as bad yet, but it's already bad. I have
| no interest in a fridge that has a camera and a wifi
| connection, or needs an app to change the temperature.
| mortenjorck wrote:
| _> Microwave ovens should have a knob-button combo that I can
| work in 0.5 seconds without looking or reading the manual_
|
| Alas, a knob is no guarantee of a decent user interface. I have
| a higher-end GE microwave with a knob that is completely inert
| until you know what you're supposed to press first. Granted,
| "cook time" is not an entirely unintuitive prerequisite, but
| why the designers didn't at least consider that this would be
| the 95% use case and simply default the knob to that function
| is beyond me.
| JumpCrisscross wrote:
| > _a higher-end GE microwave with a knob that is completely
| inert until you know what you 're supposed to press first_
|
| Breville has, in my experience, nailed the interaction
| between physical knobs and digital input.
| nesky wrote:
| I have a 2021 Mazda and I can't say enough good things about it's
| infotainment interface. The dial and 5 buttons on the center
| console behind the shifter is wonderful, I can glance at the
| screen while using the dial and I know what each of the 5 buttons
| do across the system. I've been in a few vehicles from Honda,
| Toyota and Chevy and the Mazda is multiples better at interacting
| with the system while driving.
| llamaInSouth wrote:
| > The dial and 5 buttons on the center console behind the
| shifter is wonderful
|
| One of my favorite feature on Mazdas... never seen anything
| like it before
| bobbytables1 wrote:
| I'm not sure, but what's being described sounds a lot like
| BMWs iDrive which I love and has been around for a while(15+
| years).
| llamaInSouth wrote:
| Basically, I can access it without looking while keeping my
| arm on the arm rest
| pivo wrote:
| That's funny because as I recall the BMW iDrive was widely
| derided when it came out. I have one on my old BMW and I
| like it, never understood the objections.
| eesmith wrote:
| Here's an NYT article at the time, from https://web.archi
| ve.org/web/20150527202158/https://www.nytim... :
|
| > Car enthusiasts were not smitten with iDrive; many
| found that the system had the opposite of its intended
| effect, requiring more, not less, visual attention.
| Automobile Week wrote that iDrive ''turned the
| 'experience' of driving the car into a computerized
| affair.'' And even experts who sympathize with the
| impulse behind iDrive note its shortcomings. ''I spent an
| hour experimenting in a simulator, and I got lost in the
| menus,'' says Don Norman, the author of ''The Design of
| Everyday Things.'' BMW countered by including a cheat
| sheet that can be affixed to the steering wheel for
| befuddled parking valets. Eventually, some initially
| skeptical reviewers have conceded that once accustomed to
| it, they find the iDrive indispensable; however, that
| acclimation has taken as long as three months.
|
| Norman wrote more about it at https://jnd.org/design-as-
| communication/ .
|
| > By logic, the iDrive was a superior device. Alas,
| people function through stories, not logic. Moreover,
| people are spatial, we remember where things are in
| space, whereas the iDrive destroyed spatiality. And
| finally, the stories we remember and the conceptual
| models we prefer have to do with how a particular device
| functions: heating and cooling the automobile, changing
| the station of the radio, checking what distance remains
| for our trip. Each activity requires a separate story,
| separate control, and a separate location for operation.
| Alas, the iDrive collapsed everything into one location.
| cmrdporcupine wrote:
| Audi cars used to have a system like this (dial based), but
| don't anymore.
| Arrath wrote:
| Straight up the best method of interacting with the
| infotainment system I've ever used. It was a breeze.
| cmrdporcupine wrote:
| I rented one with the last year of that system, and
| they'd integrated it with Android Auto, and I was
| surprised with how well it worked. Someone at Google was
| clearly thinking about this modality.
|
| However I doubt Google has done the work in the interim
| to keep the UX in Android Auto working well with dial
| controls. Esp if only Mazda is doing this.
| bdavbdav wrote:
| Most other tier 1 manufacturers have had this - BMW, Merc,
| Audi, Lexus...
| freetonik wrote:
| It's very similar to BMW's iDrive system. I believe Mazda's
| UX, in several areas, was inspired by several car
| manufacturers.
| woobar wrote:
| Mazda copied BMW's iDrive. iDrive was derided when it was
| introduced in 2001 [1], but it has turned out to be a good
| compromise.
|
| Unfortunately BMW moved to eliminating a lot of hardware
| buttons in the latest version of the iDrive with a giant
| curved screen. They still have dial and buttons on the center
| console, plus few additional buttons under the main screen.
| But they have removed one of another great features - eight
| programmable buttons in the center. These are great and you
| can assign any function from the touch screen to them.
|
| [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_iDrive
| LawnGnome wrote:
| Agreed! I have a 2021 CX-5, and it's not just the infotainment
| controls (which are great, and work really well with Android
| Auto), but also just having real buttons -- some with indicator
| lights, even -- for all the heating/cooling/demisting controls.
|
| I've rented several other cars in the last couple of years that
| have been touchscreen only (or, at the very least, very heavily
| biased towards touchscreens), and the amount of extra time
| needed to orient where you're pressing is honestly kind of
| terrifying when you need to, say, demist a windscreen quickly.
| VBprogrammer wrote:
| The worst I've come across for this was taking the MG4 for a
| test drive. The whole thing felt like it consisted of
| programmer art (mismatched, inconsistent, ugly etc). I
| quickly found the windscreen misting up on a cold evening -
| and had to stop to figure out enough of the interface to find
| the correct button.
| lacker wrote:
| Yeah, the Mazda physical interface is great. More car
| manufacturers seem to be adopting the wheel to control CarPlay
| which is a lot nicer than reaching over to use the touch
| screen.
|
| I just wish the Mazda software was similarly well-designed.
| They have so many on-screen popups, for everything from
| "Warning, screens can be distracting! Select okay to
| acknowledge." to "Your XM radio has lost connection" when I'm
| not listening to the XM radio. And they display their own
| popups over CarPlay while CarPlay is active, which I basically
| never want to see.
| agloe_dreams wrote:
| > More car manufacturers seem to be adopting the wheel to
| control CarPlay which is a lot nicer than reaching over to
| use the touch screen.
|
| Who? Virtually all makes are moving to all-touch infotainment
| systems, even VW here. The VW change is that they were using
| weird touch-sensitive 'buttons' for volume and steering wheel
| control and you literally couldn't rest your fingers on the
| steering wheel. The only reason touch suckls on Mazda is that
| the display is placed too far away to be reached on purpose.
| JohnFen wrote:
| > The only reason touch suckls on Mazda is that the display
| is placed too far away to be reached on purpose.
|
| Well, that certainly makes it worse on Mazdas, but those
| touch screens are terrible on everything.
| cramjabsyn wrote:
| It'd be nice if there was more control out of the box but the
| HN crowd would probably appreciate that it can be customized
| with a little hacking https://mazdatweaks.com/
| pa7ch wrote:
| I got a mazda because I liked their interface design. Owning
| it for a bit, I agree the software design is horrible.
| Obnoxious seat-belt warnings while in park is also
| frustrating.
| wlesieutre wrote:
| _> And they display their own popups over CarPlay while
| CarPlay is active, which I basically never want to see._
|
| What year/model is this? I've never had a popup on top of
| CarPlay, except for the volume bar that appears along the
| bottom of the screen.
|
| I got a Carlinkit wireless adapter so I don't even see the
| Mazda UI except for a couple of seconds while the adapter
| boots up, or if I want to put it on the clock screen because
| there's nothing on CarPlay that I need.
| ModernMech wrote:
| When I was 16 there was no other car I wanted more than an Audi
| A4. I vowed that when I got my first job I'd get one. Then came
| dieselgate, and I've never considered an Audi or VW since.
|
| Instead I went with a Mazda and stayed with them since. Just
| great all around cars: safe, reliable, low maintenance,
| freaking fun to drive, and always good tech (Love the heads up
| display!), upscale fit and finish. Not super expensive but
| expensive enough that you're getting a good car.
|
| I would easily choose my CX-30 over an A4 any day.
| thisismyaccoun7 wrote:
| When I bought my 2015 Mazda 3, there were already articles on
| how they had found buttons and the dial superior to touchscreen
| only. They were quick on that and now have a decade more work
| going into it.
|
| Every few years since then there has been an article like this
| that another brand "discovered" the same thing.
| agloe_dreams wrote:
| Fun fact - Mazda actually ranks pretty poorly in this category
| in consumer surveys.
| https://www.torquenews.com/sites/default/files/j.d._power_te...
|
| ^ Check it, dead last in the industry according to people who
| bought the car.
|
| The system is coated in buttons...but most units do not allow
| you to use Carplay with touch. That's right. You need to
| navigate the UI as if you were using a keyboard to use windows.
| 'spin spin spin, highlighted?, select, spin spin spin
| highlighted?, select' The outcome is considerably more time
| spent looking at the screen no matter how proud they are about
| killing touch. Carplay and Android Auto are both noted by
| customers as the number 1 technology priority in new cars.
|
| The system is virtually unchanged in UX since 2012 with only a
| UI refresh in 2019. They claim it as if it is an intentional
| design when they really are just selling 12 year old tech on
| $60K CX-90s.
|
| This is no rebuttal to you, if you love it, that is great! But
| here and reddit both seem to think that Mazda's UX is amazing
| when customers truly hate it.
| Supermancho wrote:
| This reads that the innovation score is lowest. It makes
| sense, because the innovation is basically zero for physical
| controls. I don't think this is the same as ranking UX
| overall, nor do I think it is indicating that users "truly
| hate it".
| Etheryte wrote:
| That graph does not mean what you think it means.
| mattgreenrocks wrote:
| No offense, but is a JD Power survey what you're citing here?
| :)
|
| Seems like my 2016 CX-5 ignores touch inputs if the car is
| moving, and CarPlay can't override this.
| evanreichard wrote:
| > The outcome is considerably more time spent looking at the
| screen [...]
|
| Quite the opposite. The wheel has discrete clicks while
| rotating so muscle memory becomes a thing. I've got half a
| dozen "workflows" memorized so I don't even need to look at
| the screen to do things like love a song, add it to my
| favorites, switch between apps, report an accident, etc.
| throw7 wrote:
| I drove a mazda cx-5 on a multi-day road trip and was
| pleasantly surprised with the interface. Clearly some thought
| was put into it and I appreciated it... and I'm one who hates
| the move to monitor screens in cars (not to even say
| touchscreens).
| glimshe wrote:
| I have a 2023 CX-5 and I love using the rotary dial. But their
| infotainment needs some work - the eternal disclaimer popup
| when turning on the car and lacking the ability to go to the
| next folder directly when listening to music. Some minor tweaks
| and their software would be _perfect_ , but that's not yet the
| case even on their latest models.
| rudasn wrote:
| Mazda had been consistently delivering good design for the last
| decade, if not more.
|
| I find the newer Mazda red to be far sexier than Ferrari red.
| (Ferrari red is still best choice for Ferraris though)
| TYPE_FASTER wrote:
| Yes, totally agree. We just got a 2020 and it's really nice to
| have physical controls.
| karaterobot wrote:
| I bought 3 VWs, then switched to a Mazda for my last car after
| they went full-touchscreen. And I told my dealer that was the
| reason when they called me. I assume they ran that up to the
| boardroom in Germany, and that's why this changed. You're
| welcome, everybody. /s
|
| > This is reassuring for the simple fact that actual buttons just
| work. The touch sliders and whatnot in the Mk8 Golf and ID.4 are
| finicky, only operating like they should some of the time. They
| also aren't backlit, making them difficult to find and use in the
| dark.
|
| I'd frame it differently. It's not that, under certain
| circumstances, buttons work better than touchscreens. It's that
| there are particular situations when touchscreens are superior to
| physical buttons (nav is one of them), and for every other use
| case, buttons provide a more intuitive, consistent, discoverable,
| pleasurable experience for users. Because I can do GPS nav on my
| phone anyway, if I have to choose one, I'd say it's reasonable to
| conclude that physical controls are superior _in general_ as UI
| for cars.
|
| The other problem with touchscreen interfaces is that,
| paradoxically, they can result in worse design. You'd think that
| an all-software interface would give designers more options. What
| it seems to do--and many designers will recognize this
| antipattern from the real world--is make it so that you don't get
| as much time to think about the right design, and you don't have
| to make the difficult decisions that result in a simple,
| opinionated design. Instead, the UI ends up being an afterthought
| because it's _just software_ , and every VP with a dumb idea gets
| to have it crammed into the design. That's why touchscreen
| controls for cars still suck, 10 years into them being
| ubiquitous, while a dashboard from the 1970s can be controlled by
| a child.
| jansan wrote:
| > I bought 3 VWs, then switched to a Mazda for my last car
| after they went full-touchscreen. And I told my dealer that was
| the reason when they called me. I assume they ran that up to
| the boardroom in Germany, and that's why this changed. You're
| welcome, everybody. /s
|
| Thank you, sweetheart!!!
| matsemann wrote:
| The VWs/Cupras I've driven recently have had these insane
| buttons on the steering wheel, that aren't physical but
| supposedly does some weird vibration/haptic feedback when
| pressed. Makes it absolutely impossible to control the cruise
| control etc. Just insane. Reason alone for me not considering
| those cars at all when buying.
| georgeecollins wrote:
| I took a class in cognitive design (fancy name for controls
| design) with Donald Norman (he wrote Design of Everyday things)
| and his standard assignment was to ask us to make the controls
| for a clock radio television. This was a long time ago. One of
| the points of the exercise was to make us realize that
| combining different devices and their controls didn't always
| make sense. In the same sense in a car their is a lot to be
| gained by keeping the controls for audio and the controls for
| temperature separate. The only good reason is to save money on
| buttons and knobs.
| coolbreezetft22 wrote:
| Good. I have an ID4 and really like but the touch panel for
| climate controls is definitely a nuisance, physical buttons are
| definitely preferable.
|
| Glad to see this trend is going in reverse.
| balls187 wrote:
| I have the climate control to resume, so I don't often need to
| adjust it.
|
| I also use the siri shortcut to start climate control a few
| minutes before I leave the house.
| ksec wrote:
| Just like everything else I remember at the time most of HN were
| singing songs and praise about the Tesla infotainment interface
| and everything touch screen. People who preferred buttons were
| the minorities. "You already have to look at buttons for playing
| songs or X why not make everything touch screen."
|
| Now the tide has finally turned. Sigh.
| CrzyLngPwd wrote:
| Why sigh?
| CrzyLngPwd wrote:
| Why downvote a simple question?
| jansan wrote:
| Comments without content and humor is a sure fire way on HN
| to get downvoted.
| CrzyLngPwd wrote:
| Oh the drama. I'll downvote them, as payback haha.
| mqus wrote:
| I think in VWs case there was the additional circumstance that
| their touch screen was just abysmal.
| bdcravens wrote:
| I haven't driven a Tesla, but perhaps the interface is more
| intuitive? I feel like on VW and others with terrible
| interfaces, it was more of an afterthought, kinda like a web
| app that spent $200k on the API and then had a budget of $10k
| for the front end that needed to go live in a couple of weeks.
| TheKnack wrote:
| The Tesla interface reminds me of the iOS settings page. A
| huge list of options and you have to drill down multiple
| levels to find the setting you want to change. Definitely not
| easy to use while driving, IMO.
|
| There have been lots of complaints because there are no
| physical controls for things such as windshield wiper speed
| on some Tesla models. They just put out a software update in
| response to complaints about that, but people don't seem to
| like the "fix".
|
| https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaModelY/comments/1305970/finall.
| ..
|
| I test drove a Model S but ended up buying a RAV4 Prime plug-
| in hybrid instead. The controls are much better on the RAV4.
| There are physical buttons for almost everything.
| agloe_dreams wrote:
| > A huge list of options and you have to drill down
| multiple levels to find the setting you want to change.
|
| I'm confused by your concept that there are multiple levels
| -There isn't. There is the car page with 10 tabs, all with
| only top-level information and the default tab has steering
| wheel and mirror controls, both are set-it-and-forget-it
| with driver profiles.
|
| The wipers suck, for sure. I honestly think they could fix
| that in a software update or at least make more intuitive
| controls. Currently the wipe speed menu pops up if you hit
| the wipe button. That said, zero of the settings in the car
| menu should ever be used while driving. The auto-headlights
| work well enough and it has a traditional stalk for that
| anyways.
| metabagel wrote:
| > I'm confused by your concept that there are multiple
| levels -There isn't. There is the car page with 10 tabs
|
| Ten tabs? This sounds complicated.
| dzhiurgis wrote:
| What settings would you ever want to change there? The
| settings in the settings menu are something you setup when
| you buy the car and generally never touch again.
| vincnetas wrote:
| These are not necessary the same people ;)
| ricardobeat wrote:
| There is a sea of distance between the UI on a Tesla, and the
| UI on the Volkswagen. The lack of buttons in a Tesla is mildly
| annoying but everything is still pretty usable.
|
| On the VW the software is so bad it makes you want to scream in
| despair, and the buttons they do have are the worst of both
| worlds: unclear, unresponsive, no feedback, and invisible in
| the dark.
| cmrdporcupine wrote:
| There's a big difference between classic Tesla Model S, which
| had lots of physical buttons for the traditional things that
| cars used physical buttons for; but also had the big
| touchscreen...
|
| And the Model 3, etc... which, well... sorry, I won't drive
| one.
|
| Yes, I know you can program buttons on the stalks and crap, but
| I'm the kind of person who has used emacs for 30 years with the
| stock keybindings, so...
| agloe_dreams wrote:
| Had a 20' Jetta and then a 22' Taos, a Volvo Xc40 and now a
| Tesla Model 3. Comparing VW MIB with Tesla's OS is like
| comparing a knockoff android TV streaming stick plugged into a
| 720p tv with an iPad Pro. Just miles of difference in UX,
| design, and performance. After having it for three months, so
| far my take is that the VW does exactly one thing better -
| Wiper controls. Notably, the Tesla Auto Wiper is pure trash and
| the VW one works well so you don't need to play with it. You
| are constantly in the Tesla menu because auto-wipers just don't
| work correctly.
| metabagel wrote:
| > Just like everything else I remember at the time most of HN
| were singing songs and praise about the Tesla infotainment
| interface and everything touch screen. People who preferred
| buttons were the minorities.
|
| My recollection is different. I recall there was always a
| significant sentiment against eliminating buttons and knobs in
| favor of a centralized touch screen.
| Ajay-p wrote:
| That's good to hear. I test drove a Range Rover and it was
| bewildering. Buttons would change function based on which mode
| they were in. It became very confusing very quickly and I had to
| pull over and spend a few minutes to figure it out. Even then it
| was awful.
| cpursley wrote:
| Were you really considering one? They're rated consistently at
| the bottom in terms of reliability and have for 30 years or
| more. Porsche and BMW make a much higher quality vehicle in
| that price range.
|
| (Don't get me wrong, I'd love an old Defender 90; those are
| cool)
| jansan wrote:
| I had a Volkswagen Arteon Shooting Brake as a rental car on
| holiday this summer. Me and my family just loved the car, but the
| buttons on the steering wheel were really weird. I am not sure if
| you can get used to it, but I really prefer classic buttons on
| the steering wheel, so I get clear feedback when pressing them.
|
| Too bad the Arteon will be phased out and the ID7, which looks
| like a great car, will have the same buttons. At least the new
| Passat seems to get the haptic buttons again.
| hawski wrote:
| Off-topic: Is this only my perception or many things lately
| that come in single digit tiers (with some mostly irrelevant
| prefixes)? It is not a bad trend really (number big -> thing
| pricey), but funny to see.
| jansan wrote:
| Volkswagen just wanted to make everything new with their
| electric cars. Therefore they chose the "ID" prefix, which is
| probably supposed to sound futuristic to the average buyer.
| But Audi for example had something very similar going on for
| a long time with their A2, A3, ... A8 and Q3, Q4, ... Q8.
| rambambram wrote:
| Even before I used adblockers I purposefully bought a speakerset
| with one big volume knob to turn down the volume whenever an ad
| or otherwise annoying sound 'hit' my computer. No more fiddling
| with mouse clicks in menus to regulate the volume. Also no
| buttons to gradually turn down the volume step-by-step, just
| swing the wheel. Best purchase ever for peace of mind.
| bdcravens wrote:
| I'm spoiled by keyboards that have a single button for mute.
| That said, one of the best keyboards I've owned was a Das
| Keyboard Pro with a giant volume knob like you described.
| rambambram wrote:
| Nice one! Integrated in the keyboard would be even better for
| me.
| bdcravens wrote:
| My wife has a 2023 ID.4. As the article says, it's a good EV
| ruined by the touch controls. It is without a doubt the worst UX
| I've experienced in any car. Prime example: a touch toggle with
| no real feedback to switch between the front and rear window
| controls, since there's only one button.
| balls187 wrote:
| (also a driver of a 2023 id4): That switch between rear and
| front windows is mindbogglingly terrible UX.
|
| Other bad UX:
|
| I also only have one user profile setup and I have to hit
| "okay" every time I start my car.
|
| The self parking feature works maybe 40% of the time.
|
| You cannot disable child locks independently, it's either on or
| off.
|
| The alert that my phone is charging everytime I put it into the
| wireless charging spot.
|
| Cannot disable assists without disabling acc.
| cco wrote:
| > I also only have one user profile setup and I have to hit
| "okay" every time I start my car.
|
| I blame Netflix, fairly or not, for this UI pattern.
|
| The idea of "choosing a profile" on startup is a UX that I
| don't think was common before Netflix made it the de facto in
| streaming.
|
| Now every video streaming service, regardless of how many
| profile _actually_ exist (for me, only one), asks you to pick
| a profile on startup. Absolutely annoying.
| acd wrote:
| Airplane computers already have touch knob interface figured out.
|
| Display in the middle physicall buttons and knobs to control the
| interface.
| jmye wrote:
| Great that they're putting them back, but even then, the included
| pictures make it clear they have no idea why they're putting them
| back or what the actual issue was with removing them. Hiding
| them, essentially, behind the steering wheel on the driver's left
| hand side instead of putting them back in the center console is
| really, really dumb. Less dumb than the touchscreen, but still
| dumb.
| boppo1 wrote:
| It's so people get into accidents and they can say 'oh told you
| so'
| tw04 wrote:
| Thread from yesterday:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38678853
| dang wrote:
| That one only spent 21 minutes on HN's front page and the
| source looks a bit dodgier, so maybe we'll let the current
| thread run as well. Interested readers might want to look at
| both.
| NotYourLawyer wrote:
| Tesla please read this article.
| ojosilva wrote:
| UI is hard for any carmaker to get right. The target user range
| (from pops to teen to soccer mom to SV tycoon) is way, way
| wider than the typical user that gets a figma-designed UX on
| top of React. Being conservative pays off in this arena, but,
| duh, we do need innovation and evolution in cars too, specially
| .
|
| I tend to get confused when cars have too many buttons, console
| cluster areas and there are cars where, after years as a owner,
| I just couldn't find the alert button, the rear defogger or
| some of the other "quick-fire" buttons, such as the "resume"
| cruise position on the steering wheel right joystick on my
| wife's Kia. Yes, things buried deep in a menu can also be
| annoying. To me the best compromise is: give me a steering-
| wheel "mouse" so that I can at least hit a shortcut somewhere
| without lifting my hands off the steering wheel.
| lnsru wrote:
| Audi e-tron 50 or A6 digital cockpit disasters should go into
| design books: https://www.leasefetcher.co.uk/guides/car-
| technology/audi-vi... Screens on the left, on the right and in
| the middle. Good luck playing with that on autobahn speeds.
| toddmorey wrote:
| Woohoo collective sanity prevails! Now let's do Tesla!
| jessriedel wrote:
| Does anyone have a reasonable explanation for why this is done?
|
| > Then there's the ID.4, which only has two window switches on
| the driver's door, with a separate button that shifts their
| controls between the front and rear windows.
|
| https://www.thedrive.com/news/vw-ceo-admits-frustrating-golf...
|
| Unreal. Note that explanations like "they want to make everything
| software" don't work, because it was still physical buttons. At
| best you are reducing the number of physical buttons by two, but
| then also increasing the number of haptic buttons by one.
|
| Here is a video _by VW_ that tries to explain it.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDj4sSyNl_Y
|
| Just absolute lunacy.
| agloe_dreams wrote:
| Designers running rampant with no UX oversight combined with
| 'Hey it is cheaper'. Anything to look cool to the next buyer.
| wmeredith wrote:
| In my career, I've found that a lot of poor decisions like this
| get made in a committee that's already been at each other's
| throats for 7 hours and just wants to go home for the day.
| ska wrote:
| And option 3 is 11c/unit cheaper.
| entrox wrote:
| > Does anyone have a reasonable explanation for why this is
| done?
|
| It's cheaper. That's all there is to it.
|
| Automotive design is heavily influenced by bill--of-materials
| cost, there are committees upon committees deliberating and
| ultimately deciding on saving cents per unit.
| mattmcknight wrote:
| "no modes"- Larry Tesler
| the_mitsuhiko wrote:
| Oddly enough that is the only thing I like about the ID models.
| I constantly roll down the rear windows on my VAG car when I
| enter car parks accidentally. On the ID.3 this does not happen,
| because I just never tap the mode switch button. Operating the
| rear windows is such an uncommon operation for me, that I
| really do not see the need.
| maximus-decimus wrote:
| touch buttons are cheaper and 3 buttons are cheaper than 4.
| They must have save a huge 1$ or something.
| pornel wrote:
| Probably a consultant like Munro told them that two buttons
| fewer is saving them $2 per car, they make million cars, so
| they've just saved them two million bucks, and "it looks
| cleaner".
| browningstreet wrote:
| ..and the piano black stuff please.
|
| I recently watched this video: "NEW BYD Seal vs Tesla Model 3 vs
| VW ID.7" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-f9mLCxgrw
|
| Shocked at how ugly the VW interface was, esp in their next
| flagship.
|
| I will say this: I used to have the first gen VW CC. Loved that
| car, especially the physical "Jump" (that's how it was labeled)
| button that took you to the first radio station preset. So I got
| used to ordering my music stations by preference, so I could move
| through the list by the steering wheel arrows but go back
| directly to #1 whenever I wanted. Can't believe how much I miss
| that feature.
| FirmwareBurner wrote:
| _> Shocked at how ugly the VW interface was, esp in their next
| flagship._
|
| And bear in mind that this is the end product after VW spent
| billions on a sister spin-off company, Cariad, that would just
| focus on creating the best possible in-car software separate
| from their archaic car business. And this is what they got. Now
| they're gonna lay off thousands.
|
| There's something with big German companies and consumer facing
| software that never manages to click no matter how much money
| they spend. If you have a broken design culture/process with
| terrible managers, it won't matter how much money you spend or
| how many people you lay off.
| w-m wrote:
| I would expect something like a new VW car interface, that is put
| into millions of cars, to pass some kind of internal design
| review. How do these things (like touch controlled AC sliders
| without backlight) get introduced, which would take two minutes
| of usability testing to be thrown out? Can this just be explained
| by cost savings, or is there something else going on?
| newsclues wrote:
| The entire industry shifted, from the suppliers to OEMs.
| ChrisArchitect wrote:
| [dupe]
|
| More discussion yesterday:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38678853
| eknkc wrote:
| I have a hybrid volvo with 5 drive modes. In order to change the
| drive mode you touch a small settings icon on bottom right
| corner. Touch Drive on the navigation list and then touch the
| desired mode.
|
| Whoever thought this was a good idea is an imbecile.
| tonymet wrote:
| I personally prefer tactile interfaces on everything -- cars,
| home appliances, tools , etc. But producers are not to blame
| here. Consumers are buying these products based on appearance and
| not usability. The flashy-but-useless UI trend will continue
| until consumers purchasing decisions change.
|
| If VW produced a 90s style interior today, would anyone buy it?
| Yes it would be more usable and safer , but it wouldn't sell.
| FuriouslyAdrift wrote:
| The Corrado was amazing in its day!
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Corrado
| egberts1 wrote:
| Eureka! Now i am going back to VW again
| agloe_dreams wrote:
| Everyone - This isn't about the touch screen. This is about the
| buttons in recent VWs that are touch based, including the
| steering wheel and window selector switch for the window buttons.
| All of these are capacitive and are horrible.
| indymike wrote:
| One of the things I really like about my Subaru is the over-
| abundance of buttons, and the really hands on wheel button
| controls. The touch screen is perfectly supplemental and that
| makes it much less irritating.
| efields wrote:
| In the ID4's steering wheel buttons are sub-par. In a d-pad
| layout, right hand, they decided an "up/down" was necessary so
| they made vol- and vol+ left and right.
|
| Well now you can't have skip/back, because those _have_ to be
| left/right. Meanwhile everyone's phone vol-/+ is vertically
| oriented, up/down, so I'd argue that's a folk default.
|
| Here's the thing: I don't use the up/down buttons for everyday
| use. I'm guessing they work a menu. They are clearly an over-
| prioritized affordance. And I'm stuck with it until the lease is
| up.
|
| I've done 40k miles in a model 3. The cabin temps are automatic
| to the temp I like. I never change it. It's easy to pick the last
| few things I listened to from the touch screens. I can use Siri
| for other things (Bluetooth, no CarPlay)... buttons are
| overrated.
| tahoeskibum wrote:
| I guess I'm in a minority, as I like the minimalist elegance of a
| Tesla touchscreen and voice controls.
| crabmusket wrote:
| For me, "I press the button and it does what I wanted" is both
| minimalist and elegant. Form must follow function.
| primax wrote:
| I'd disagree, because a button for everything means a button
| for every function. This very quickly becomes cluttered,
| which is the opposite of minimalist.
| FuriouslyAdrift wrote:
| I would be willing to pay an extra $5k just to have the exact
| layout of the 2006 Honda CR-V.
|
| I could manage every setting of that vehicle without even
| looking.
|
| It was standardised across most Hondas, so I could do the same in
| any other vehicle of the same model era range.
|
| https://static0.topspeedimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uplo...
| twisteriffic wrote:
| 05/06 CRV were the best vehicles Honda ever made. Absolutely
| reliable and super easy to work on. Crazy amount of rear
| legroom. A hatch that swings sideways instead of up. Roof rails
| that you can bolt a 2x4 to to haul stuff around. And they have
| a picnic table in the back!
| 1-6 wrote:
| Buttons aren't necessary if the UI doesn't suck.
| JohnFen wrote:
| I'd love to see even a single example of this being true. How
| can a touch screen UI be so good that it can be operated
| without looking at it?
| raminf wrote:
| Have a 2023 ID.4. There are three things I do most frequently:
|
| - Connect my phone via CarPlay (as only user).
|
| - Adjust AC depending on outside temperature and passengers.
|
| - Plug car in at home to charge after midnight (cheaper rates).
|
| In all three cases, the car forgets previous settings, requires
| multiple taps (up to 5-6 at a time), or makes it hard to find the
| screen to make the adjustment.
|
| My last car ran fine for 20+ years. This is the third VW I've
| ever driven; the first two were a long time ago. I intentionally
| leased this one since I figured EV technology would evolve, so
| best to hold off before purchasing outright.
|
| Unless they figure out how to make those features be 0-touch (or
| even 1-touch) operations, this will be the last VW for me. The EV
| part works fine, but I grit my teeth every time I get in or out
| of the car.
| magicalhippo wrote:
| My sister got an earlier ID.4, and after a weekend trip to our
| cabin I got to experience the horrible AC controls.
|
| I got a Renault Megane e-Tech this summer, and it does the
| things you mention right. Not only does it remember AC
| settings, CarPlay/Android Auto and such per profile (my SO uses
| Android Auto, I don't), but it has physical buttons for
| adjusting temperature, fan speed, max AC, rear window heater
| and air recycling.
|
| While they have physical buttons they can also be adjusted via
| the voice interface of course.
|
| Having physical buttons for those key operations is one of the
| reasons we got it. Not having it was a hard pass.
|
| Compared to our previous BMW i3, I also really enjoy having
| easy access to the regen settings via paddles on the steering
| wheel. I live in the suburbs, so drive a lot on both fast and
| slow roads, and actively switching between regen settings
| depending on speed limit and traffic makes it more enjoyable to
| drive.
| leetharris wrote:
| I think the transition is jarring for many people and while
| ultimately I think physical buttons are often better, I am the
| type that will gladly accept a little degradation in favor of
| progress and minimalism. I also think there's an extremely vocal
| minority that feels like no-buttons is backwards progress.
|
| Note, this is not an excuse or justification for touchscreen-only
| interfaces, but my personal feelings towards the matter.
|
| I have two Teslas and I have never found the touchscreen to be a
| problem when the "automatic" setting is GOOD. For example, I
| almost never touch the AC. I set it to the temperature I like and
| it keeps me comfortable during the entire ride.
|
| However, when things like the automatic windshield wipers are bad
| (and they constantly fluctuate between disastrous and good enough
| between software updates), I get really frustrated because I have
| to tinker with the bullshit screen too much.
|
| Personally, I think the end game is minimalist physical buttons
| (some multipurpose) + software that is actually good enough to
| not interact with the touchscreen very often. Most companies that
| aren't Tesla really struggle on the latter portion.4
|
| After having these 2 cars for a couple of years, I find most cars
| extremely cluttered and almost claustrophobic. I really like how
| clean and simple the Tesla interior is. I hope we don't
| overcorrect back into the 2010s and even 80s style of "put a
| button right in front for EVERYTHING." But I do think there's a
| ton of room for healthy middle ground.
| tremon wrote:
| So your argument is basically, "touchscreens are OK as long as
| I don't have to actually use them"? And I don't get your
| argument about degradation in favour of progress -- progress
| towards what, exactly?
| leetharris wrote:
| Yes. When I am charging, or not moving, I GREATLY prefer the
| touchscreen over hundreds of physical buttons scattered all
| over the car. The minimalism is appreciated. Less moving
| parts to break, less clutter, and everything is extremely
| centralized.
|
| When I am driving 85mph obviously I don't want to have to
| look over at a screen to adjust windshield wiper settings.
|
| One day, ideally most of this stuff is handled automatically
| or through a simple interface like voice. Stuff like window
| controls should always exist, but things like windshield
| wipers or speed should ideally be automated one day.
| jjav wrote:
| > accept a little degradation in favor of progress
|
| What does this mean?
|
| Progress means making it better, degradation means making it
| worse. It can't be both.
|
| Too many industries seem to confuse "new" with "better".
|
| New just means it is a recent change, it might be better or
| much worse.
|
| New does not make something better. _Better_ is better.
| Sometimes what is better is how it used to be.
| leetharris wrote:
| I mean when two concepts are at war and are sometimes
| incompatible.
|
| For example, I am a PC gamer. I think mouse / keyboard is the
| best way to play many types of games.
|
| But it impractical to have a M/KB on a phone.
|
| So when I play a mobile game I wish I had a M/KB, but I am OK
| with sacrificing it because I have a portable form factor
| that was previously not possible.
|
| The new Volvo CX30, for example, put a lot of very simple
| buttons in the center so they wouldn't need to manufacture a
| left side driver and right side driver model with completely
| different layouts. It's likely not as intuitive, but the
| reduction in manufacturing costs allows them to deliver EVs
| for cheaper.
|
| This is the kind of idea I was trying to convey, but I admit
| it was confusing.
| dzhiurgis wrote:
| I agree Tesla's touchscreen is perfect.
|
| I would love to disable few things in UI (i.e. some
| minimalistic mode with speedo only) but it's fine.
|
| What I do hate with climate is the stupid vents. I know many
| people hate when wind blows to their face, but I love it and
| it's impossible to get it right in mine. Even if you dial it
| down to be barely acceptable it seems to reset after each
| drive.
| glimshe wrote:
| "New" isn't the same as "progress". Touchscreen-only interfaces
| are a degradation in favor of degradation.
| leetharris wrote:
| I think you are intentionally ignoring the benefits in favor
| of your point.
|
| Controls are centralized, I have everything in one place
| which I greatly prefer. There are far less physical buttons
| that can break or wear out. Manufacturing is much simpler.
| Visually it's far less cluttered.
|
| And no cars are going "touchscreen only." Even Tesla with its
| aggressive move towards less parts still has controls for
| windows, hazards, lights, etc.
| JohnFen wrote:
| > I am the type that will gladly accept a little degradation in
| favor of progress and minimalism.
|
| Is it really progress if it's a degradation? And what's so
| awesome about minimalism that it's worth a worse UI? Just
| trying to understand the cost/benefit analysis here.
| leetharris wrote:
| I'll give you an example of something that I think is
| progress and some may disagree with me.
|
| For vent control on a Tesla, you have to pull up a
| visualization and "drag" the airflow to where you want it to
| go. Kinda silly compared to just moving your vent like in the
| old days.
|
| But when I use it on that screen, I can adjust airflow for
| ALL of my passengers from one spot. I can change the airflow
| for multiple areas of the car, I can change heated/cooled
| seats, I can split the air, I can turn on biohazard mode,
| etc.
|
| To contrast this, on my previous car, the physical "heated
| seats" button was in a different place for every single seat.
| So if my wife or kid left theirs on, it stayed on unless I
| reach across the car to turn it off or get out and go into
| the backseat.
|
| I get that this is an extremely minor example, but I do think
| a combination of good centralized physical buttons and a well
| made UI can be a good combo.
|
| Another small simple example I'm thinking of off the top of
| my head is sound balance. On my previous car to change
| fade/balance to avoid waking small children on a road trip,
| it was a physical button click and scrolling through menus to
| scroll an arbitrary number for left/right, then backing out,
| then doing the same for an arbitrary number for back/front.
| In a Tesla, I just pull up the visualization and click one
| time in one spot for exactly where I want the sound to be
| centered.
|
| These little things add up and I think eventually someone
| will nail it.
| rsync wrote:
| Too bad Volvo needed to burn an entire (upcoming) model
| generation with their own UI/UX experimentation:
|
| https://cdn.motor1.com/images/mgl/Akg2QO/s1/2025-volvo-ex30-...
|
| All I wanted was an electric version of the V90 wagon. Instead,
| Volvo wants to sell us space-cars ... Tron-mobiles ...
| eInitiative iCars.
|
| Since a model generation is something like five years long, it's
| going to be a while.
| adolph wrote:
| There are also aftermarket physical buttons that can be added to
| cars. I thought I had seen an esp32 CAN project but can't find it
| now. Here is a commercial example:
|
| https://enhauto.com/
| rompledorph wrote:
| The TV in the center console needs an off button
| mortenjorck wrote:
| Related, it's good to see that while VW was unable to resist the
| cargo cult of touchscreen maximalism and must now course-correct,
| they presumably (based on the images in the article) never
| adopted the dreadful ergonomics pioneered by the Prius and
| popularized by Tesla of eschewing a driver-side instrument
| cluster for a single, central screen.
| wand3r wrote:
| I am definitely in the minority here. I want a touch screen and I
| want control. I did (and do) love the VW tactical knobs in my VW
| Golf, but the Mazda knob is horrific for me.
|
| I want dumb TVs that I can control in my house. I want dumb
| screens that mirror my phones UX in my car. I want dumb pipes
| delivering my internet. I want control.
|
| That said, I do agree outside of "infotainment" I want knobs and
| buttons for the actual car processes like A/C, windows, etc.
| JohnFen wrote:
| > I do agree outside of "infotainment" I want knobs and buttons
| for the actual car processes like A/C, windows, etc.
|
| I'd be fine with that, since I wouldn't be using the
| "infotainment" stuff to begin with. But everything that I need
| to adjust while driving needs to be a physical control that I
| don't have to look at when I use it.
| jimjimjim wrote:
| At last, touch screens are terrible for most things while you are
| driving. Misclicks and finger slide make for a frustrating
| experience in my opinion. Even just having some physical buttons
| under or alongside the screen would be great. A large physical
| ok/yes/go button and a cancel/no/escape button that I can hit
| without concentrating would solve 3/4 of the interaction
| problems.
| vletal wrote:
| In my first car (1989 Ford Escort, 3-door) I could adjust both
| temperature and radio volume without loosing eye contact with the
| road. I felt under control and safe. Recently I've rented a Tesla
| Model 3 and man, how far did we come since then. If just the
| voice control did not keep telling me "Sorry, I can not do that
| yet".
|
| My dad (65yo) just bought a new car with a mediocre central
| display. It makes me super uneasy to see him drive. The man used
| to slap me over my wrist for looking at my phone while driving.
| Now it takes him 1+ seconds JUST TO adjust his eye sight to be
| able to while switching from the road to the display and back!
| Then he has to navigate the touch menus...
|
| I am really worried he is going to hurt himself or someone in 10
| years time he will likely own this car.
| trimal wrote:
| I don't know why car manufacturer need to re-invent things in
| interior.
|
| Many people are familiar with shifting knob but now companies are
| introducing switches (Tesla takes it up notch in their latest
| cyber truck, they are putting drive switches below rear view
| mirror) I would prefer for critical activities like wiper, heater
| where I can rely on muscle memory.
| JohnFen wrote:
| Here's hoping that VW is a trendsetter on this.
| deckard1 wrote:
| Here's a good video from Jason Cammisa about the new (at the
| time) mk8:
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGbPHp6QfkQ
|
| I had a mk7 and it is the best interior + UX I've seen in a car.
| Everything is as simple and ergonomic as possible. The volume
| adjustment is a knob, with soft rubber knurling and indents for
| feedback. It's not some awful feeling smooth afterthought that
| you see on certain Toyotas or Hondas. It's not a push button
| (beep beep beep beep) you find on old Pioneer stereos from the
| '90s. It's exactly what you want to adjust the volume. The AC is
| similar. Heated seats are a button with 3 LEDs indicating
| high/med/low. Everything just makes sense.
|
| And then VW got cheap and greedy. The mk8 is almost the complete
| opposite of what the mk7 was.
| kmoser wrote:
| Even VW's physical buttons don't guarantee an intuitive UI. I
| tried to set the clock on a Jetta and had to look it up online.
| At first I went through the infotainment system's screen, which
| had settings for just about everything else. Why not the clock?
| Who knows. Anyway, there was a promising looking button on the
| dashboard to the right of the steering wheel (i.e. fairly near
| the clock) that did _something_ with the clock, but no
| combination of pressing it actually let me _actually_ set the
| clock. It turns out there is a _second_ button on the dashboard,
| on the _left_ side of the steering wheel, that is used to
| configure whether you are setting the hours or minutes, and must
| be used in conjunction with the button on the _right_ side of the
| dash. I consider this a hard UI fail.
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