[HN Gopher] The New Essential Guide to Electronics in Shenzhen
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       The New Essential Guide to Electronics in Shenzhen
        
       Author : kungfudoi
       Score  : 399 points
       Date   : 2023-12-16 17:25 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.bunniestudios.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.bunniestudios.com)
        
       | Animats wrote:
       | It's good to know that Naomi Wu is still allowed to communicate
       | with the outside world, a little.
        
         | user_7832 wrote:
         | Out of the loop, what happened with her?
        
           | toomuchtodo wrote:
           | Heavy hand of the CCP.
           | 
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37154414
           | 
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37154745
        
             | user_7832 wrote:
             | Thanks!
        
               | toomuchtodo wrote:
               | Happy to help!
        
           | kmeisthax wrote:
           | She tried to enforce the GPL on a Chinese company and the
           | mainland Chinese government threatened her with... something.
           | Speculation is rampant. Naomi had a Uighur wife, and mainland
           | China is both homophobic _and_ currently doing ethnic
           | cleansing of Uighurs in Xinjiang. In fact, her wife isn 't
           | even allowed to leave the country, so it's entirely possible
           | that they said "shut up or we jail her".
           | 
           | The way that authoritarianism[0] works is that there are two
           | sets of laws. The real laws are secret and ever changing.
           | Sometimes they will change for just one person. The published
           | laws are the excuses and punishments they will use against
           | you for violating the real laws you were never told.
           | 
           | [0] In any form of liberalism, the real laws will always be a
           | subset of the published laws. The government is free to not
           | enforce a law they think is obsolete, but they cannot invent
           | a new law without telling anyone and make up a punishment for
           | it.
        
       | jancsika wrote:
       | Is there any niche of vendors somewhat equivalent to free
       | software zealots in Shenzhen? E.g., "you can boot this little
       | keychain thingy without blobs."
        
         | carom wrote:
         | There are another few bunnie blogs [1] on that. The concept is
         | called gongkai. It means open in the sense of IP is shared
         | freely.
         | 
         | 1. https://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=4297
        
           | jancsika wrote:
           | Hm, if that's the case then why don't Western open source
           | hardware projects just send a bilingual tourist over to
           | Shenzhen to muck around until they connect with someone who
           | can give them the docs needed to bootstrap the relevant
           | firmware/drivers for the boards?
        
             | aleph_minus_one wrote:
             | My guess: legal concerns. What is legal (or at least
             | tolerated) in China with respect to gongkai is not
             | necessarily legal in the Western world.
        
               | jancsika wrote:
               | I'm just surprised there seems to be no bridge whatsoever
               | between the two.
               | 
               | Like the developer asks, "what's the address to set this
               | bit?" and the tourist responds with whatever it is.
        
             | DeathArrow wrote:
             | Because that costs money.
        
             | numpad0 wrote:
             | Why wouldn't they be able to ask in IRC/Discord/whatever
             | still works in Hong Kong? Or, just have a Taiwanese hacker
             | guy in the group?
        
           | contrarian1234 wrote:
           | Do you know what he's up to?
           | 
           | I remember he was working on some super encrypted FPGA phone
           | ages ago.. and then I haven't hear his name in .. years?
        
             | 0xCMP wrote:
             | He is still working on it, the precursor, they're just
             | starting development of the messaging app that will run on
             | that dev platform and eventually run on the betrusted final
             | device.
        
           | jacquesm wrote:
           | That is still one of the most interesting reverse engineering
           | blog posts ever. In the 80's I was pretty good at this stuff,
           | especially figuring out various over-the-wire protocols to
           | get hardware to do stuff that it wasn't intended to do. But
           | this is on an entirely different level.
        
           | kmeisthax wrote:
           | Gongkai sounds like what happens in piracy scenes, or perhaps
           | more specifically the game modding and ROM hacking scene.
           | People innovating and modifying without giving a crap about
           | who-owns-what.
        
         | wannacboatmovie wrote:
         | There's plenty of free software thieves (the GPL violating
         | kind) in Shenzhen. Sadly, there isn't a goddamn thing we can do
         | about it.
         | 
         | Go ahead, try enforcing the GPL in China. They'll just laugh in
         | your face whilst trying to sell you the next shoddy widget on
         | AliExpressazon.
        
           | isnifailed wrote:
           | So, exactly like in the West?
        
             | cscurmudgeon wrote:
             | False equivalence
             | 
             | https://opensource.stackexchange.com/questions/11452/have-
             | th...
             | 
             | How many of those are in mainland China?m
             | 
             | Even the neighboring country of Taiwan is careful about GPL
             | 
             | https://www.leetsai.com/ltp-special-column/legal-issues-
             | that...
        
               | userbinator wrote:
               | Incidentally, don't call Taiwan a "neighboring country"
               | when in mainland China.
        
               | cscurmudgeon wrote:
               | It is a neighbor and a separate country though.
        
             | neilv wrote:
             | I get the impression that Western companies (and Chinese
             | companies with non-disposable brands marketed in the West)
             | _can_ have GPL enforced against them.
             | 
             | For example: https://sfconservancy.org/activities/
             | 
             | I know one of the other dynamics is when the GPL copyright
             | holder is more of a crunchy-granola hippie guru, who might
             | just want to lovingly bring the lost soul into the fold,
             | because they know not what they do.
             | 
             | That's really not a deterrent to the people who know
             | exactly what they're doing.
             | 
             | Personally, I'd like to see copyright holders be less
             | flower-child toward abusers, and more like a Scout who was
             | helping an elderly person across the street, when they were
             | attacked by a group of violent racists. It's not time to
             | turn the other cheek, but to grab a heavy stick.
        
               | isnifailed wrote:
               | Yeah, no, they can't. Plenty of western examples, such as
               | Mikrotik.
        
           | Animats wrote:
           | > Go ahead, try enforcing the GPL in China.
           | 
           | Naomi Wu has actually done that.[1]
           | 
           | [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vj04MKykmnQ
        
             | wannacboatmovie wrote:
             | The same Naomi Wu that recently was visited by CCP goons
             | who told her to mind her p's and q's? Yeah I don't see this
             | happening again.
        
               | faitswulff wrote:
               | How is that relevant to enforcing GPL?
        
               | obmelvin wrote:
               | See this peer comment -
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38669000
        
               | chpatrick wrote:
               | As far as I know it was because of "reactionary" tweets,
               | not GPL enforcement.
        
               | NicoJuicy wrote:
               | No, it was after she went to a business that violated
               | gpl.
               | 
               | She put it on YouTube and then she got silenced.
        
               | lvturner wrote:
               | Assuming this linked video is accurate, your statement is
               | not quite correct.
               | 
               | https://youtu.be/3p7bl7eFaEo?si=kAXZHfA2lxbXlLv-
        
               | NicoJuicy wrote:
               | It got the attention of the government.
               | 
               | And she doesn't advocate gpl anymore too.
               | 
               | The one doesn't exclude the other.
        
               | obscurette wrote:
               | That's not how autocratic systems work. In any autocratic
               | system you allowed to be somewhat independent. How
               | independent? It depends on you position in hierarchy. But
               | if you cross the line, you will get punished for all your
               | independent actions and even thoughts. There is no
               | "because of this and that". The only thing that matters
               | is that you crossed the invisible line.
        
             | NicoJuicy wrote:
             | ReallySexyCyborg?
             | 
             | Yeah, she tried that and then guess what happened...
             | 
             | > Ok for those of you that haven't figured it out I got my
             | wings clipped and they weren't gentle about it- so there's
             | not going to be much posting on social media anymore and
             | only on very specific subjects. I can leave but Kaidi can't
             | so we're just going to follow the new rules and that's
             | that. Nothing personal if I don't like and reply like I
             | used to. I'll be focusing on the store and the occasional
             | video. Thanks for understanding, it was fun while it
             | lasted.
             | 
             | https://twitter.com/RealSexyCyborg/status/16774808094508359
             | 6...
             | 
             | She stopped uploading YouTube videos 6 months ago after 7
             | years.
             | 
             | More here: https://www.hackingbutlegal.com/p/naomi-wu-and-
             | the-silence-t...
        
               | JimDabell wrote:
               | That wasn't anything to do with attempting to enforce the
               | GPL though.
        
               | NicoJuicy wrote:
               | It was all around the same time. A security vulnerability
               | and gpl enforcement are the things she stopped since
               | then.
               | 
               | Except trying to start her business, which she still
               | does.
        
               | kahnclusions wrote:
               | Wow, the police sent plainclothes thugs to her home to
               | harass her, and her partner who is an Uygher is banned
               | from leaving the country.
        
           | DeathArrow wrote:
           | I think many Chinese companies freely share code between
           | them, regardless if it's open source or not. They just don't
           | care about licenses and IP the way the West does.
           | 
           | So, if you want to get the source code for X, you just have
           | to learn Cantonese, go there and ask nicely.
        
             | SeanLuke wrote:
             | As a former good Cantonese speaker, now terrible, let me
             | assure you that there is no way to ask anything nicely in
             | Cantonese. It's a rough-and-tumble, loud, crude, obnoxious
             | gutter language. It's awesome. So much better than
             | Mandarin. There's a reason why Cantonese is always the go-
             | to language for "misc bizarre foreign language spoken by
             | asians in the background" in movies, well that and the very
             | high number of first-rate actors available from Hong Kong's
             | movie industry. It's my favorite language in the world.
        
       | jonatron wrote:
       | There's not a lot of info about the Shenzhen SEZ Visa on arrival,
       | but I can say that if you use the Luohu/Lo Wu port, aim to get
       | there as they open because they don't get through many before
       | they stop for lunch.
        
         | juujian wrote:
         | I got over half a dozen of those. Never remember there being
         | much traffic anyways at the office where they issue those. Time
         | period is ~2016--2019.
        
           | jonatron wrote:
           | My single data point is October 2023. I don't know if they're
           | slower than they used to be.
        
         | woutr_be wrote:
         | I've gotten that visa countless times at the Lok Ma Chau border
         | crossing, never had to wait more than 15-30 minutes really.
         | 
         | There's now also 15-day visa free travel if you're one of 6
         | countries: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-67516777
        
         | dewey wrote:
         | If you are coming from HK then Shekou port on arrival visa is
         | also fast and painless (If you don't show up in the lunch break
         | like I did).
        
       | ofrzeta wrote:
       | I have a hard time imagining how you can get into business with
       | people in Huaqiangbei without speaking Mandarin even with that
       | guide in hand but without an interpreter. But maybe it can work
       | out with pointing and writing down arabic numbers?
        
         | terminous wrote:
         | Real time voice translation is getting really good. Standard
         | text translation is pretty much perfect for technical details,
         | but just may miss idioms. You just have your smartphones out,
         | type your message, and show the translation to the other
         | person. They read it and start typing on their phone, then show
         | it to you. I got through China pretty painlessly this way, and
         | it is so normal for many, especially the young. I went to one
         | restaurant where they got the younger waiter when they saw me
         | walk in, who I thought would speak English. She just knew the
         | phone text translation ritual, but was an expert in that.
         | 
         | But for millennia, people have gone to far away lands where
         | they don't speak the language, and somehow managed to build
         | trade routes without even having a dictionary or calculator. It
         | is not that hard to work out a pidgin. Tons of things you can
         | do with pointing and gesturing. Marco Polo would have killed to
         | even have Google Translate circa 2010.
         | 
         | I'll also assert with no evidence that it is generally harder
         | for an English speaking engineer to successfully communicate a
         | technical idea into business speak for English speaking VC
         | investors than it is for an English speaking engineer to
         | communicate a request to buy a specific part to a Mandarin
         | speaking engineer.
        
           | ClumsyPilot wrote:
           | > I'll also assert with no evidence that it is generally
           | harder for an English speaking engineer to successfully
           | communicate a technical idea into business speak for English
           | speaking VC investors than it is for an English speaking
           | engineer to communicate a request to buy a specific part to a
           | Mandarin speaking engineer
           | 
           | sounds like a fun challange, probably true
        
             | Saigonautica wrote:
             | I've never done this in China, but I've done it in Vietnam
             | (before I learned more of the language) and in Japan.
             | 
             | It is surprising how much you can communicate by drawing
             | circuit diagrams, sketches of oscilloscope traces, and
             | equations! It works quite well!
             | 
             | However one problem I encountered was that many (maybe
             | most) vendors were not engineers and had no understanding
             | of the parts sold. They just knew the name of the parts
             | they had in stock, and how much they could sell them for,
             | and that's it. Often they weren't even being paid -- it's a
             | family business and they were just the niece or nephew that
             | got roped in to vaguely watching the store while playing
             | games on their phone.
             | 
             | This was much more of an issue in Vietnam (Nhat Tao market)
             | than in Tokyo (Tokyo Radio tower). In the latter there
             | appeared to be quite a few retired engineers who were quite
             | enthusiastic to meet someone who was looking for something
             | specific. It was pretty neat, and I occasionally
             | encountered someone with a wealth of knowledge!
        
           | DeathArrow wrote:
           | My baby son doesn't talk yet, aside of 5 words, but he still
           | manages to transmit me what he wants by using his hands,
           | muttering and mumbling on different tones. If I still don't
           | get it, he grabs me by the hand and go show me what he wants
           | by pointing his finger.
           | 
           | I somewhat did the same when traveling to foreign countries
           | and meeting people that don't speak any of the languages I
           | speak.
        
         | jonatron wrote:
         | They usually have a calculator to show you prices. Translation
         | apps that aren't Google work to some extent. Some speak enough
         | English to haggle, so numbers mostly, and it's not hard to
         | learn Chinese numbers.
        
         | smackeyacky wrote:
         | It's not quite as bad as that. I speak no Mandarin but managed
         | to purchase parts in the markets just by gesticulating and
         | having part numbers (where appropriate).
         | 
         | A surprising number of the vendors had at least a little
         | english - enough for commerce anyway.
        
         | DeathArrow wrote:
         | >I have a hard time imagining how you can get into business
         | with people in Huaqiangbei without speaking Mandarin
         | 
         | By speaking the same language as they do, which is Cantonese?
        
           | ofrzeta wrote:
           | You know, I got that idea from the Crowdsupply page that says
           | "... sourcing tool for non-Mandarin speakers".
        
           | lvturner wrote:
           | It's MOSTLY Mandarin you will hear spoken in Shenzhen, while
           | it is true that Guangdong province is generally Cantonese
           | speaking - Shenzhen is a city mostly made up of migrants from
           | all over China so Mandarin is the lingua franca.
           | 
           | Somewhat related, as a result of this, Shenzhen is a great
           | place to try out many different regional Chinese foods.
        
           | Taniwha wrote:
           | Most people are in Shenzhen are from other parts of China,
           | you'll hear Mandarin (the default) Cantonese, Hakka, Hokkien
           | etc - most people probably speak some dialect of Mandarin as
           | well as their birth language
        
         | Taniwha wrote:
         | Buy and read the book - you can point at stuff in it, it's
         | designed with that in mind - take a hand calculator so you can
         | type numbers/prices - point at things, smile a lot
         | 
         | Do learn a little Mandarin, start with Nihao = hello, Xiexie
         | (shay shay) == thank you - na = that, zhe = this - bu = no, dui
         | = correct - also yuan/kuai the currency (kuai is used
         | interchangeably, a bit like "bucks").
         | 
         | It's all pretty easy, everyone wants to do a deal, they want
         | you to come back as a repeat customer
        
           | jacquesm wrote:
           | This comment could well serve as a template for a guide to
           | use by anybody in a country where they don't speak the
           | language.
           | 
           | I'd add: be nice.
        
         | asfarley wrote:
         | Google translate, except for connector gender
        
       | zeroCalories wrote:
       | I don't plan on ever doing business in China, much less
       | purchasing electronics, but the book looks very interesting from
       | the index. Might buy a copy.
        
         | toomuchtodo wrote:
         | I bought the first one to send a copy to the Internet Archive
         | for long term physical archival. Going to do the same with this
         | release.
        
       | narag wrote:
       | I love the cover. Nice mix.
        
       | lifeisstillgood wrote:
       | >>> Since ... 2016, the population of Shenzhen has grown by over
       | 2 million people, the metro system has added over one hundred
       | kilometers of track, and dozens of new stations have been opened.
       | The city's taxi and bus fleets were converted from gas to
       | electric. The entirety of Huaqiangbei Road - the center of the
       | electronic market district - has been torn up and replaced with a
       | pedestrian boulevard.
       | 
       | Holy crap. As a Brit we have recently spent 100 billion and twice
       | that time to fail to build a railway between two cities, London
       | still runs almost all petrol bus and taxis and ...
       | 
       | As we have (hopefully) an election coming soon and might see some
       | change I would be interested in _why_ the UK - who about 150
       | years ago woukd have growth stats very similar to that - has got
       | well, meh.
       | 
       | The usual suspects for such terrible performance are
       | 
       | - much lower starting point. It's easier to setup mobile phone
       | masts than replace the POTS.
       | 
       | - too much regulation (from safety to public consultations that
       | allow NIMBYism to slow things down)
       | 
       | - we are not growing - if the number of people buying mobile
       | phones in year X is twice the number of people who already have a
       | phone, then you can see a different market than if everyone keeps
       | their phone for one extra year. Does something else play out for
       | cities, streets and factories?
       | 
       | - just money coming in. The UK is having serious lack of growth
       | and presumably shenzen is not.
       | 
       | Or is it, that "ooomph" ? a level of belief that tomorrow will be
       | better?
        
         | wannacboatmovie wrote:
         | The West has safety regulations that are followed.
         | 
         | If a building collapses or a train crashes in China, they just
         | brick over it and build a new one.
        
           | djmips wrote:
           | Move fast and break things.
        
           | toyg wrote:
           | Yes. Also, rules and regulations on expropriation of land,
           | relocation of people etc, with plenty of long appeal
           | processes.
           | 
           | China? "Go away or else".
        
             | southerntofu wrote:
             | I don't know where you live, but in France and surrounding
             | countries expropriations are certainly "go away or else".
             | It's very common for the cops to evict people for
             | industrial projects that have been found illegal by
             | tribunals, and it's not unheard of that the mafia itself
             | beats up small owners until they "give up" their land. It's
             | also common for people to get maimed protesting industrial
             | projects (lose an eye, hand, foot due to military
             | grenades), and not unheard of for them to die killed by the
             | State (Vital Michalon, Remi Fraisse, etc).
             | 
             | In France, most appeals processes you can have when your
             | eviction has been decided can in fact not delay the
             | eviction. You can be evicted before having your appeals
             | hearing. The Grand Paris has already expropriated so many
             | small owners (from popular districts) for the olympic games
             | madness, and it's so common for farmers to be expropriated
             | away from their lands to build crazy useless projects, such
             | as the NDDL airport where residents had to defend
             | themselves with molotov cocktails against more than 500
             | riot cops trying to destroy their homes back in 2012.
             | 
             | So, maybe it's better where you live but please don't
             | pretend the West is a marvelous land of human rights. I'm
             | of course not saying China is a dream-like State of human
             | bliss and safety ; they're a tyrannical regime crushing
             | their population. I'm just saying if you scratch the
             | surface, it's not _wildly different_ here (although
             | comparatively better in some regards).
        
             | Dah00n wrote:
             | That is not at all how the system in China works..
        
             | kmeisthax wrote:
             | While mainland China's land ownership is more like a series
             | of 99-year leases, those leases are notoriously difficult
             | to break. There are loads of examples of buildings in China
             | being built around a few land holdouts. In fact, it's so
             | common that real estate developers in China call them "nail
             | houses[0]".
             | 
             | [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holdout_(real_estate)#Nai
             | l_hou...
        
           | southerntofu wrote:
           | As a westerner myself, i think you have a misguided view of
           | the West that's biased by a higher socio-economic status.
           | 
           | Safety regulations are often _not_ followed in the West. See
           | for example  "Greenfell tower", "rue d'Aubagne Marseille" or
           | "East palestine train derailment".
        
           | Dah00n wrote:
           | That's so biased, it reads like xenophobia. Have you seen the
           | state of trains, railways, bridges, etc. in the US? China is
           | a much safer place to travel on bridges, rail, etc.
        
         | autocanopener wrote:
         | As always, engineers on hacker news have like 2-3 year delay of
         | news out of China. The rest of the world has already moved onto
         | other countries.
         | 
         | 1.) "just money coming in"
         | 
         | Outflows of foreign direct investment in China have exceeded
         | inflows for the first time as tensions with the U.S. over
         | semiconductor technology and concerns about increased anti-
         | spying activity heighten risks. FDI came to minus $11.8 billion
         | 
         | https://asia.nikkei.com/Economy/Foreign-investment-in-China-...
         | 
         | Moody's Cuts China Credit Outlook to Negative on Growing Debt
         | Risks
         | 
         | https://www.wsj.com/finance/moodys-cuts-chinas-credit-outloo...
         | 
         | 2.) "the metro system has added over one hundred kilometers of
         | track"
         | 
         | China's Cities Are Buried in Debt, but They Keep Shoveling It
         | On
         | 
         | China has long pursued growth by public spending, even after
         | the payoff has faded. Cities stuck with the bill are still
         | spending -- and cutting essential services.
         | 
         | https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/28/business/china-local-fina...
         | 
         | China orders local governments to cut exposure to public-
         | private projects as debt risks rise
         | 
         | https://www.reuters.com/markets/asia/china-orders-local-gove...
         | 
         | 3.) "we are not growing"
         | 
         | Shenzhen reports decrease in population
         | 
         | The southern boomtown of Shenzhen reported a slight population
         | decrease for 2022 -- a first since the city's founding in 1979.
         | 
         | https://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202305/10/WS645b514ba310b605...
        
           | ClumsyPilot wrote:
           | > China's Cities Are Buried in Debt, but They Keep Shoveling
           | It On
           | 
           | Finance is fictional, trains are real. In the anglospheric
           | West, when a spreadsheet and real world disagrees,
           | Beancounters will believe their spreadsheet.
        
         | hnthrowaway0315 wrote:
         | There are a lot of contributing factors:
         | 
         | 1. Shenzhen is sort of a tech center of Southern China so it
         | requires good and new infras
         | 
         | 2. Local governments are economically and politically
         | encouraged to build infra (Google Tu Di Jing Ji ) in general
         | 
         | 3. Infra is built faster and cheaper in China so Shenzhen is
         | not an outlier. Usually it starts with some planning to build a
         | line in a remote area (to save buyout costs) -> line gets built
         | -> other infrastructures including super markets, post offices,
         | whatever get built -> apartment buildings get built ->
         | government gets paid back by taxes collected from real estate
         | companies, super markets and other expanded economy entities
         | 
         | 4. Some cities actually lost the bets on building new infras
         | and this created a whole range of issues (Google Di Fang Zhai
         | and Di Fang Rong Zi Ping Tai Gong Si Zhai )
        
           | nirui wrote:
           | A well-know thing is, rebuilding things was a fairly common
           | (and for some, important) method for the local gov to raise
           | funds.
           | 
           | One instance in our city almost 10 years back, they built a
           | perfectly acceptable 4-lane city road, and then completely
           | rebuilt it again just few years later.
           | 
           | Of course that method is no longer be used as wild as it did
           | under chairman Xi and his uh... successful economic policy
           | which greatly reduced the need of roads. But things are bit
           | different back in 2016.
        
         | nox100 wrote:
         | SF spent $1.6 billion and 10 years to make 2.7k line that no
         | one rides
         | 
         | https://sfist.com/2023/03/16/central-subway-ridership-alread...
         | 
         | I love public transportation when it's good (Tokyo, Singapore,
         | HK, Seoul, Paris, London, Berlin, Amsterdam, ...) but I have
         | zero expectations for public transportation to get to "good"
         | levels in any city in the USA except the 3 where it's already
         | just so-so (NYC, Chicago, DC)
         | 
         | As long as it's seen as "the thing poor people who can't afford
         | a car use" it will always be funded and run as such. ... and
         | feel like it. I never feel safe on SF nor NYCs public transit.
        
           | vmurthy wrote:
           | As a Sydneysider, I feel offended that you left us out ;-).
           | Or included in the "..."
        
           | bluGill wrote:
           | Ny, chicago are not doing a good job of improving. I look
           | less known cities to leapfrog them in 20 years.
        
         | tim333 wrote:
         | London's black cabs are now 50% electric and rising
         | https://electrek.co/2023/12/07/half-of-londons-iconic-black-...
        
           | jacquesm wrote:
           | https://www.wired.co.uk/article/levc-geely-london-
           | electric-b...
        
           | Taniwha wrote:
           | For a while Shenzen had both - but charged a 2 kuai tax if
           | you got in a petrol cab (the electric ones were blue) - now
           | they're all electric
        
         | Taniwha wrote:
         | This animation gives you a great idea of how fast it has grown
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Shenzhen_Metro_evolution....
         | 
         | It's a modern subway (puts NY to shame) - I've been going since
         | ~ 2010, almost every year a new line or two has opened up.
         | 
         | From the beginning you get on the subway in Hong Kong, take a
         | train to the end of the line, exit the subway, go thru customs,
         | walk over a bridge, thru CN customs, and down into the green
         | line subway station in Shenzhen. Now days there's also a high
         | speed train from Hong Kong/Kowloon
        
           | mlrtime wrote:
           | Do they still have the arcades (markets) right at the train
           | stop selling all kinds of fake goods? I used to go there and
           | buy all kinds of knock-offs but they were not the best
           | quality.
           | 
           | Also, all my friends in HK said don't stray to far from that
           | mall as it gets dangerous at night (This was around 2002) and
           | I know "dangerous" is relative.
        
       | kqr2 wrote:
       | There used to be some hacker tours of Shenzhen via Dangerous
       | Prototypes and Noise Bridge. Any other recent or current ones?
        
       | TheLegace wrote:
       | I own this book. It was invaluable navigating Shenzhen
       | electronics markets. In Shenzhen it is easy to find any
       | electronic part you need and has an extensive recycling
       | ecosystem. You can find parts on the street which find it's way
       | upstream and end up in completed phones. Those phones are then
       | resold.
       | 
       | That was my goal when I was there to build an iPhone in my hotel
       | room by buying every individual part. And except for the
       | thumbprint(because it needs to be reflashed) everything worked
       | perfectly. I even named it my non-Sweatshop iPhone.
        
         | conception wrote:
         | That sounds like an amazing vlog/blog article. Any chance you
         | made one?
        
           | starkparker wrote:
           | Not OP, but: https://www.strangeparts.com/how-i-made-my-own-
           | iphone-in-chi...
           | 
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14100989
           | 
           | EDIT: Noticed that's Naomi Wu with the top comment on that HN
           | discussion.
        
         | mensetmanusman wrote:
         | How much cheaper was it?
        
           | smashed wrote:
           | It doesn't have to be about saving money.
        
         | cortesoft wrote:
         | > I even named it my non-Sweatshop iPhone
         | 
         | Are the conditions at the parts factories any better than at
         | the final assembly factory?
        
           | KeplerBoy wrote:
           | Probably. I guess the final assembly requires the highest
           | amount of cheap relatively unskilled labor.
           | 
           | Actual chip foundries are no sweat shops.
        
         | ametrau wrote:
         | Ha. I was thinking about that exact video when I saw the title.
        
       | jacquesm wrote:
       | Note this not so veiled warning in the text:
       | 
       | "The other reason there won't be an electronic edition is that
       | unlike bunnie, I'm a Chinese national. My offering an app or
       | download specifically for English-speaking hardware engineers to
       | install on their phones would be... iffy. If at some point "I" do
       | offer you such a thing, I'd suggest you not use it."
       | 
       | Especially the "I" bit.
        
       | zoom6628 wrote:
       | Placed my order out of respect for Bunnie and Naomi. Legends for
       | different reasons but for any real hardware hacker they are
       | worthy of due respect for their work, their communicating of it,
       | and their sharing.
        
         | short_throw wrote:
         | Bunnie's "Hacking the Xbox" is still one of my favorite books
         | ever. First read it as a teenager, it was my intro to
         | bootloaders, encryption, copyright law, and so much more.
        
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