[HN Gopher] US begins review that could eventually lead to PVC ban
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US begins review that could eventually lead to PVC ban
Author : jelliclesfarm
Score : 26 points
Date : 2023-12-16 21:34 UTC (1 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (phys.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (phys.org)
| dtagames wrote:
| There's a terrific documentary film called Blue Vinyl[0] about
| how vinyl and PVC products are made. While inert in its usable
| form, vinyl is one of the most toxic products on earth to
| manufacture and dispose of -- and it's in a lot of stuff!
|
| [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Vinyl
| ragnot wrote:
| So what are we going to use for Drain-Waste-Vent plumbing? Go
| back to cast iron with oakum and lead?
| airstrike wrote:
| Ductile iron pipe and concrete?
|
| (Disclaimer: Not an expert at all, so could be totally wrong...
| but I remember those terms from many moons ago when I worked on
| an M&A deck for some American pipe company that hated
| competition from Chinese PVC pipe manufacturers. Not a fun
| project)
| systems_glitch wrote:
| Ugh, no screwpipe, that was a 1950s housing boom compromise
| that should never be repeated!
|
| First person to suggest Orangeburg gets to dig up 100 feet of
| collapsed lateral in winter.
| xyst wrote:
| Could PEX (cross linked polyethylene) fill the gap? It's
| already used in residential. Plus more flexible than PVC
| jwagenet wrote:
| My impression is PEX is the standard for modern plumbing, but I
| don't know about drains specifically. Maybe we will find it
| also has issues, but it seems like every modern material has
| externalities.
| a_gnostic wrote:
| Probably basalt-lined pipe.
| systems_glitch wrote:
| Soldered DWV copper is also acceptable :P Doubt we'll be going
| back to wiped lead...
| 14u2c wrote:
| ABS pipe?
| airstrike wrote:
| It seems like the title could benefit from the word "production"
| at the end for clarity
|
| > The US Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) on Thursday
| announced a review that could eventually lead to the end of PVC
| plastic _production_
|
| There's a long way to go before PVC _use_ is banned in the US
| xyst wrote:
| PVC piping is heavily used in water and sewage applications. It
| replaced the previously aging cast iron plumbing. What's going to
| replace PVC if production ban is in effect?
| sokoloff wrote:
| It's also pretty heavily used in electrical conduit and flex.
| Underground and outdoor flex may not have ready substitutes
| listed/approved and added to NEC for a while.
| Supermancho wrote:
| In the northern part of the US, there's no good alternative
| for protecting buildings from the elements. You have brick,
| glass, wood, and vinyl...which is the nice one. It has to be
| plastic (for windows) to expand and contract, but be easy to
| replace. It has to be moisture/ice proof. It has to be
| durable to impact (due to wind and storm). Brick is fine,
| until it breaks down and is very poor for temperature
| control.
| systems_glitch wrote:
| Cast iron :P Seriously, aside from requiring more skill to work
| with and not surviving well with large DC leakage currents
| (think: DC traction power from light rail), it's got a lot of
| advantages.
|
| Plastic piping in general is already disallowed in a lot of
| commercial construction.
|
| ABS is a valid alternative in some parts of the country, but is
| often already banned from being used in even residential
| construction in places where it gets very cold in the winter,
| as it shatters easily.
| Ekaros wrote:
| I would say weight is an other drawback... At larger
| diameters segments get heavy and that brings own risks.
| Including things like stress injuries for workers.
| legitster wrote:
| > aside from requiring more skill to work with
|
| This is an understatement. This would essentially kill off
| plumbing as a DIY task and be a huge boon for professional
| plumbers.
| kevin_thibedeau wrote:
| Copper is perfectly viable for interior small diameter
| pipe. Home owners aren't typically DIYing a cast iron main
| sewer.
| mentalpiracy wrote:
| Copper piping is unfortunately several orders of
| magnitude more susceptible to corrosion from a variety of
| sources: water acidity, high temperatures, and exposure
| to common household chemicals like bleach and drain
| cleaner.
| badrabbit wrote:
| Why not aluminium?
| Turing_Machine wrote:
| One reason might be that aluminum reacts with sodium
| hydroxide (lye), which is used in just about every drain
| cleaning product.
|
| "Yep, that 5" hole in the side of the pipe sure keeps
| everything flowing."
|
| Heh.
|
| The manufacturer could put a warning label on it, but you
| and I both know how well that's going to work in practice.
|
| Edit: oh, and the reaction produces large quantities of
| hydrogen gas, for extra fun.
| Turing_Machine wrote:
| Classic cast iron drain pipe was connected with by pouring
| molten lead into the joints after packing them with oakum.
| Real medieval technology.
|
| I'm not super-fond of the so-called "no-hub" joints for cast
| iron. IMO, the rubber is just waiting to deteriorate
| underground and cause an expensive nightmare 20 years down
| the road.
| jakewins wrote:
| Did some DIY in the US (PEX and PVC), now live in nordics;
| water pipes here are copper (or PEX). Expensive, but
| basically just really tiny EMT conduit, so totally fine to
| DIY.
| stefan_ wrote:
| Nothing will, we are just fine with PVC as long as the
| pollution happens _elsewhere_.
| mmcgaha wrote:
| Hope we don't go back to iron. Stuff is rotting away in my
| mothers home and her gaskets get destroyed by the rust and have
| to be replaced every year. I would like copper but but it is
| expensive and there are people who complain about the lead.
| kevin_thibedeau wrote:
| Lead isn't used in new copper installations nor in bronze
| fittings for potable water.
| rightbyte wrote:
| You can do lead free solder joints.
| oneplane wrote:
| PEX everything!
| biglyburrito wrote:
| Direct non-AMP link: https://phys.org/news/2023-12-pvc.html
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(page generated 2023-12-16 23:00 UTC)