[HN Gopher] The New Essential Guide to Electronics in Shenzhen
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The New Essential Guide to Electronics in Shenzhen
Author : kungfudoi
Score : 143 points
Date : 2023-12-16 17:25 UTC (5 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.bunniestudios.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.bunniestudios.com)
| Animats wrote:
| It's good to know that Naomi Wu is still allowed to communicate
| with the outside world, a little.
| user_7832 wrote:
| Out of the loop, what happened with her?
| toomuchtodo wrote:
| Heavy hand of the CCP.
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37154414
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37154745
| user_7832 wrote:
| Thanks!
| toomuchtodo wrote:
| Happy to help!
| lvl102 wrote:
| Redacted
| chillingeffect wrote:
| I'm hoping you either forgot a /s or have some hitherto
| unrevealed and amazing evidence for your claim.
|
| What _is_ the basis of your claim?
|
| How hard is it to believe an attractive woman can be good and
| creative in DIY electronics?
|
| Most men don't even understand the basics of dressing well or
| being attractive when all the info is right at our
| fingertips. And it doesn't take enough time that we can't
| also practice engineering.
|
| Sigh... I'm not even one of those far lefties and that remark
| is...vestigial.
| jancsika wrote:
| Is there any niche of vendors somewhat equivalent to free
| software zealots in Shenzhen? E.g., "you can boot this little
| keychain thingy without blobs."
| carom wrote:
| There are another few bunnie blogs [1] on that. The concept is
| called gongkai. It means open in the sense of IP is shared
| freely.
|
| 1. https://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=4297
| jancsika wrote:
| Hm, if that's the case then why don't Western open source
| hardware projects just send a bilingual tourist over to
| Shenzhen to muck around until they connect with someone who
| can give them the docs needed to bootstrap the relevant
| firmware/drivers for the boards?
| aleph_minus_one wrote:
| My guess: legal concerns. What is legal (or at least
| tolerated) in China with respect to gongkai is not
| necessarily legal in the Western world.
| jancsika wrote:
| I'm just surprised there seems to be no bridge whatsoever
| between the two.
|
| Like the developer asks, "what's the address to set this
| bit?" and the tourist responds with whatever it is.
| contrarian1234 wrote:
| Do you know what he's up to?
|
| I remember he was working on some super encrypted FPGA phone
| ages ago.. and then I haven't hear his name in .. years?
| 0xCMP wrote:
| He is still working on it, the precursor, they're just
| starting development of the messaging app that will run on
| that dev platform and eventually run on the betrusted final
| device.
| wannacboatmovie wrote:
| There's plenty of free software thieves (the GPL violating
| kind) in Shenzhen. Sadly, there isn't a goddamn thing we can do
| about it.
|
| Go ahead, try enforcing the GPL in China. They'll just laugh in
| your face whilst trying to sell you the next shoddy widget on
| AliExpressazon.
| isnifailed wrote:
| So, exactly like in the West?
| cscurmudgeon wrote:
| False equivalence
|
| https://opensource.stackexchange.com/questions/11452/have-
| th...
|
| How many of those are in mainland China?m
|
| Even the neighboring country of Taiwan is careful about GPL
|
| https://www.leetsai.com/ltp-special-column/legal-issues-
| that...
| neilv wrote:
| I get the impression that Western companies (and Chinese
| companies with non-disposable brands marketed in the West)
| _can_ have GPL enforced against them.
|
| For example: https://sfconservancy.org/activities/
|
| I know one of the other dynamics is when the GPL copyright
| holder is more of a crunchy-granola hippie guru, who might
| just want to lovingly bring the lost soul into the fold,
| because they know not what they do.
|
| That's really not a deterrent to the people who know
| exactly what they're doing.
|
| Personally, I'd like to see copyright holders be less
| flower-child toward abusers, and more like a Scout who was
| helping an elderly person across the street, when they were
| attacked by a group of violent racists. It's not time to
| turn the other cheek, but to grab a heavy stick.
| Animats wrote:
| > Go ahead, try enforcing the GPL in China.
|
| Naomi Wu has actually done that.[1]
|
| [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vj04MKykmnQ
| jonatron wrote:
| There's not a lot of info about the Shenzhen SEZ Visa on arrival,
| but I can say that if you use the Luohu/Lo Wu port, aim to get
| there as they open because they don't get through many before
| they stop for lunch.
| juujian wrote:
| I got over half a dozen of those. Never remember there being
| much traffic anyways at the office where they issue those. Time
| period is ~2016--2019.
| autocanopener wrote:
| "There's not a lot of info about the Shenzhen SEZ Visa on
| arrival"
|
| Most people are not traveling to China anyways.
|
| Mainland China's tourism sector saw a 70 per cent drop in
| international travellers in the first half of this year
| compared with pre-Covid levels
|
| https://www.scmp.com/magazines/post-magazine/travel/article/...
| Grimburger wrote:
| That article is paywalled, looking at the numbers I got this:
|
| > the first half of 2023 witnessed a total of 168 million
| inbound and outbound individuals passing through China's
| immigration
|
| https://www.china-briefing.com/news/chinas-tourism-
| in-2023-o...
|
| Seems fairly decent.
| autocanopener wrote:
| That number is counted whenever citizens travel to/from
| Hong Kong and Macau. There are people making day trips
| to/from Hong Kong every day.
| ofrzeta wrote:
| I have a hard time imagining how you can get into business with
| people in Huaqiangbei without speaking Mandarin even with that
| guide in hand but without an interpreter. But maybe it can work
| out with pointing and writing down arabic numbers?
| terminous wrote:
| Real time voice translation is getting really good. Standard
| text translation is pretty much perfect for technical details,
| but just may miss idioms. You just have your smartphones out,
| type your message, and show the translation to the other
| person. They read it and start typing on their phone, then show
| it to you. I got through China pretty painlessly this way, and
| it is so normal for many, especially the young. I went to one
| restaurant where they got the younger waiter when they saw me
| walk in, who I thought would speak English. She just knew the
| phone text translation ritual, but was an expert in that.
|
| But for millennia, people have gone to far away lands where
| they don't speak the language, and somehow managed to build
| trade routes without even having a dictionary or calculator. It
| is not that hard to work out a pidgin. Tons of things you can
| do with pointing and gesturing. Marco Polo would have killed to
| even have Google Translate circa 2010.
|
| I'll also assert with no evidence that it is generally harder
| for an English speaking engineer to successfully communicate a
| technical idea into business speak for English speaking VC
| investors than it is for an English speaking engineer to
| communicate a request to buy a specific part to a Mandarin
| speaking engineer.
| jonatron wrote:
| They usually have a calculator to show you prices. Translation
| apps that aren't Google work to some extent. Some speak enough
| English to haggle, so numbers mostly, and it's not hard to
| learn Chinese numbers.
| smackeyacky wrote:
| It's not quite as bad as that. I speak no Mandarin but managed
| to purchase parts in the markets just by gesticulating and
| having part numbers (where appropriate).
|
| A surprising number of the vendors had at least a little
| english - enough for commerce anyway.
| zeroCalories wrote:
| I don't plan on ever doing business in China, much less
| purchasing electronics, but the book looks very interesting from
| the index. Might buy a copy.
| toomuchtodo wrote:
| I bought the first one to send a copy to the Internet Archive
| for long term physical archival. Going to do the same with this
| release.
| autocanopener wrote:
| good for you, nobody should. China is the main supply line of
| all dictatorships in the world.
|
| China is the main supporter of Russia and Russia's war against
| Europe. China imports 58% of Russia's oil. As well as main
| supply of consumer/military goods for Russia these days.
|
| China is the main supporter of Iran and Iran's proxy war with
| Israel. China imports 52% of Iran's oil.
|
| by the way, the world is moving quickly away from China. Thus
| the 87% (!!) y/y drop in FDI in china.
| https://news.bloomberglaw.com/banking-law/china-foreign-inve...
| eunos wrote:
| FDI began to shift from made in China for global export to
| made in China for the Chinese market and nowadays local
| Chinese companies outcompete these companies. Witness how
| global automotive companies (especially Japanese) got
| trounced hard because they don't have EV offerings
| autocanopener wrote:
| No, foreign FDI shifted from China to south east asia
| factories. There's a reason xi Jing ping was begging to
| share on a 'common dream' when he visited Vietnam this
| month.
|
| Sure, foreign companies are losing in Chinese auto markets.
| That's to be expected with Chinese government support of
| local EV companies, as well as nationalistic fervor. The
| Chinese auto market is a small one compared to US however.
| And it's shrinking with China's economic collapse.
| redandblack wrote:
| You are talking about the same - you are focusing on
| large multi-national who have political pressures from
| their home country regimes. This is about local talent
| which has grown over 30/40+ years and are impervious to
| all this nonsense. Just think them about them like
| Silicon Valley - insiders know how to take a tech idea to
| a product, including financing. Not sure about financing,
| but a insider in Shenzhen, especially on you side, can
| get your product done/
| eunos wrote:
| > The Chinese auto market is a small one compared to US
| however
|
| Uh no... https://www.factorywarrantylist.com/car-sales-
| by-country.htm... https://www.theglobaleconomy.com/rankin
| gs/passenger_cars_sal...
| autocanopener wrote:
| fake market propped up by government subsidy. should
| crash 30-50%, much like the real estate prices these days
| in China.
|
| A subsidy-fueled boom helped build China into an
| electric-car giant but left weed-infested lots across the
| nation brimming with unwanted battery-powered vehicles.
|
| https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2023-china-ev-
| graveyards/
| nojvek wrote:
| Oh bummer. US is the biggest importer of China. Most crap we
| buy for Christmas and New Years - come from China.
|
| 90% of crap Amazon sells - China. Go to any store, most
| things are made in ... China.
| autocanopener wrote:
| Let me supply you with some hard knowledge.
|
| China Now Sells Fewer Goods to the US Than Mexico or Canada
| Do
|
| https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-08-08/china-
| los...
|
| For the first three quarters of the year, China's exports
| to the U.S. fell by 16.4%
|
| https://www.cnbc.com/2023/10/13/china-trade-exports-and-
| impo...
|
| Exports to the EU fell 11% from a year earlier to $38.3
| billion in November compared
|
| https://apnews.com/article/china-exports-imports-decline-
| eco...
| echelon wrote:
| Mexico is on an absolute tear.
|
| With rail, highway, and shipping directly into Texas,
| it's turning into a manufacturing powerhouse.
|
| Texas is a huge beneficiary of this too and will get to
| build a lot of finished goods manufacturing.
|
| https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2023-mexico-china-us-
| trad...
|
| https://www.dallasfed.org/research/economics/2023/0711
| hollerith wrote:
| Also cheap natural gas from Texas.
| kilolima wrote:
| "Russia's war against Europe"... Are you saying that Russia
| isn't European? Because I thought solving problems with
| violence was a traditional European past time.
| narag wrote:
| I love the cover. Nice mix.
| lifeisstillgood wrote:
| >>> Since ... 2016, the population of Shenzhen has grown by over
| 2 million people, the metro system has added over one hundred
| kilometers of track, and dozens of new stations have been opened.
| The city's taxi and bus fleets were converted from gas to
| electric. The entirety of Huaqiangbei Road - the center of the
| electronic market district - has been torn up and replaced with a
| pedestrian boulevard.
|
| Holy crap. As a Brit we have recently spent 100 billion and twice
| that time to fail to build a railway between two cities, London
| still runs almost all petrol bus and taxis and ...
|
| As we have (hopefully) an election coming soon and might see some
| change I would be interested in _why_ the UK - who about 150
| years ago woukd have growth stats very similar to that - has got
| well, meh.
|
| The usual suspects for such terrible performance are
|
| - much lower starting point. It's easier to setup mobile phone
| masts than replace the POTS.
|
| - too much regulation (from safety to public consultations that
| allow NIMBYism to slow things down)
|
| - we are not growing - if the number of people buying mobile
| phones in year X is twice the number of people who already have a
| phone, then you can see a different market than if everyone keeps
| their phone for one extra year. Does something else play out for
| cities, streets and factories?
|
| - just money coming in. The UK is having serious lack of growth
| and presumably shenzen is not.
|
| Or is it, that "ooomph" ? a level of belief that tomorrow will be
| better?
| wannacboatmovie wrote:
| The West has safety regulations that are followed.
|
| If a building collapses or a train crashes in China, they just
| brick over it and build a new one.
| eunos wrote:
| Sounds like a cope.
| autocanopener wrote:
| As always, engineers on hacker news have like 2-3 year delay of
| news out of China. The rest of the world has already moved onto
| other countries.
|
| 1.) "just money coming in"
|
| Outflows of foreign direct investment in China have exceeded
| inflows for the first time as tensions with the U.S. over
| semiconductor technology and concerns about increased anti-
| spying activity heighten risks. FDI came to minus $11.8 billion
|
| https://asia.nikkei.com/Economy/Foreign-investment-in-China-...
|
| Moody's Cuts China Credit Outlook to Negative on Growing Debt
| Risks
|
| https://www.wsj.com/finance/moodys-cuts-chinas-credit-outloo...
|
| 2.) "the metro system has added over one hundred kilometers of
| track"
|
| China's Cities Are Buried in Debt, but They Keep Shoveling It
| On
|
| China has long pursued growth by public spending, even after
| the payoff has faded. Cities stuck with the bill are still
| spending -- and cutting essential services.
|
| https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/28/business/china-local-fina...
|
| China orders local governments to cut exposure to public-
| private projects as debt risks rise
|
| https://www.reuters.com/markets/asia/china-orders-local-gove...
|
| 3.) "we are not growing"
|
| Shenzhen reports decrease in population
|
| The southern boomtown of Shenzhen reported a slight population
| decrease for 2022 -- a first since the city's founding in 1979.
|
| https://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202305/10/WS645b514ba310b605...
| hnthrowaway0315 wrote:
| There are a lot of contributing factors:
|
| 1. Shenzhen is sort of a tech center of Southern China so it
| requires good and new infras
|
| 2. Local governments are economically and politically
| encouraged to build infra (Google Tu Di Jing Ji ) in general
|
| 3. Infra is built faster and cheaper in China so Shenzhen is
| not an outlier. Usually it starts with some planning to build a
| line in a remote area (to save buyout costs) -> line gets built
| -> other infrastructures including super markets, post offices,
| whatever get built -> apartment buildings get built ->
| government gets paid back by taxes collected from real estate
| companies, super markets and other expanded economy entities
|
| 4. Some cities actually lost the bets on building new infras
| and this created a whole range of issues (Google Di Fang Zhai
| and Di Fang Rong Zi Ping Tai Gong Si Zhai )
| kqr2 wrote:
| There used to be some hacker tours of Shenzhen via Dangerous
| Prototypes and Noise Bridge. Any other recent or current ones?
| fatih-erikli wrote:
| Please stop provoking people to travel to buy electronic
| components. These products can be found in any country, almost in
| any city.
| tomcam wrote:
| Why do you care whether other people travel? And what other
| parts of their lives do you plan to advise them on?
| fatih-erikli wrote:
| I don't mind. People can go wherever they want. These are
| opinions. My opinion is traveling is overrated. Not only me
| though, world health organization thinks the same.
| autocanopener wrote:
| Haha I like that. Actually, traveling to China right now is
| probably kind of like hell.
|
| Pay $5000 for a normal airline seat
|
| 6-7 type of infectious diseases raging in China right now,
| from pneumonia, to covid, to white lung. Hospitals are full
| of lines.
|
| Can't pay for anything except with online wallet, which
| would require you days to setup, and connect to your bank.
| Good luck if the app fails and you need an essential
| service
|
| 80% of retail stores in Chinese malls have shuttered, due
| to online ecommerce popularity. Window shop in China? only
| if you want to stare at your own reflection in an empty
| store.
|
| 80% of restaurants have closed, due to people's
| unwillingness to spend money outside. Want to eat? better
| be ready to travel for miles. Oh yeah, and watch out for
| gutter oil. and fake food.
|
| And there's still the terrible air pollution
| Beijinger wrote:
| "Pay $5000 for a normal airline seat"
|
| Dude, Corona is over. Tickets have never been cheaper.
|
| China is an amazing place.
| autocanopener wrote:
| There are reports from foreigners online of celebrating
| after months of daily diarrhea living in China. So I
| suppose it's possible.
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(page generated 2023-12-16 23:00 UTC)