[HN Gopher] OpenAI Announces $10M Superalignment Grants
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       OpenAI Announces $10M Superalignment Grants
        
       Author : og_kalu
       Score  : 47 points
       Date   : 2023-12-14 17:26 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (openai.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (openai.com)
        
       | voiceblue wrote:
       | > We believe superintelligence could arrive within the next 10
       | years
       | 
       | I'm not a fan of allowing corporations to control and define
       | terms like AGI and superintelligence in ways that profit them,
       | but perhaps it is our fault as a society for not producing
       | stricter definitions of these terms. Seems to be a pervasive
       | problem with terms in the sci-fi domain - we have 'hoverboards'
       | these days, for example.
       | 
       | Putting aside that lament, I wonder if we're heading towards
       | another iteration of learning the bitter lesson [0]. It seems
       | that the incentives presented here are trying to circumvent
       | approaches that overly favor human oversight, but they still seem
       | to overly emphasize human understanding.
       | 
       | [0] http://www.incompleteideas.net/IncIdeas/BitterLesson.html
        
         | p1esk wrote:
         | I think it's pretty clear what "superintelligence" means, no?
         | 
         | Superintelligence: smarter than any human. AGI: as smart as an
         | average human.
         | 
         | "As smart" means it can do anything a human can do.
        
           | dumbo-octopus wrote:
           | > it can do anything a human can do.
           | 
           | So it can get up and walk down the street?
           | 
           | Not trying to be pedantic, but when one is defining things,
           | one needs to be precise.
        
             | p1esk wrote:
             | Yes, when put in a robotic body.
        
               | dumbo-octopus wrote:
               | Is the robotic body capable of metabolism, growth, and
               | self-repair?
        
               | kweingar wrote:
               | In this case, we are far from AGI
        
               | BobaFloutist wrote:
               | Ok so that's no "AI" that currently exists then.
        
               | jcims wrote:
               | Not for long
               | 
               | https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1734763060244386074
               | 
               | Boston Dynamics' Atlas it's probably a more capable robot
               | at the moment but Optimus will be much better position to
               | act as an embodied agent in the next few years.
        
               | BobaFloutist wrote:
               | Then the AI isn't going for a walk, the robot is going
               | for a walk.
               | 
               | I can currently take an AI for a walk on my laptop,
               | that's not the same as them being able to go for a walk.
        
             | huytersd wrote:
             | Is it has a mean of locomotion, yes.
        
             | voiceblue wrote:
             | Indeed, and accepting that definition still fails to
             | include extraterrestrial life. (The way that first sentence
             | is written in TFA made me think of first contact).
             | 
             | Anyhow, it's too late for "AGI" and "superintelligence",
             | aside from the baggage they also suffer from being in
             | everyone's domain to do with as they please. Precise terms
             | inherently cannot be abused like this (compare "sore
             | throat" to "acute viral laryngitis").
        
           | tsunamifury wrote:
           | You just defined the word with the same word -- which is what
           | everyone seems to do.
           | 
           | Smarter how? Where? Computers are already smarter at math,
           | physics, simulation, etc than humans
           | 
           | Generalized smarter? At what? Emotional intelligence? Self
           | preservation? on and on
        
             | p1esk wrote:
             | I mean "smart" in exactly the same way you would use the
             | word when talking about people: "John is smarter than
             | Paul". Or "an average college professor is smarter than an
             | average college student". People use this word assuming
             | others understand what it means. That's my assumption as
             | well.
        
               | wrs wrote:
               | Interesting. In my experience, I would have said the use
               | of the word "smart" almost invariably results in
               | misunderstandings and biased comparisons. The concept is
               | certainly used in casual conversation, but you can't do
               | anything serious with it.
        
           | eastof wrote:
           | Aren't those terms totally meaningless in terms of modern
           | "AI" though? AGI is nowhere near being able to play a violin
           | solo, their fine motor skills are abysmal. The list goes on
           | and on, they also aren't running a bakery, collecting field
           | data for ecological studies, or playing literally any sport
           | any time soon either. The concept of a disembodied system
           | even being "smart" doesn't make sense to me.
        
           | adastra22 wrote:
           | No, it's not clear. There are already many domains where AI
           | is vastly smarter than any human. There are algorithms like
           | GPT which are fully general. So do we already have superhuman
           | AGI today?
           | 
           | Most people would object. But it is hard to argue against
           | that on definitions. It usually ends up being "by
           | superintelligence I meant the singularity." Which really
           | makes this a question about reality matching science
           | fiction...
        
         | cyanydeez wrote:
         | almost all terms are mediated by American businesses in
         | America.
         | 
         | Jay walking didn't exist until the car industry pushed for cars
         | as the primary user of roads.
         | 
         | it takes a strong government to push back. Europe is doing that
         | but America continues to bow to "line goes up" rhetoric.
        
           | dmix wrote:
           | > it takes a strong government to push back. Europe is doing
           | that but America continues to bow to "line goes up" rhetoric.
           | 
           | Push back against what? The definition of "super
           | intelligence"? Isn't there already issues with how the EU
           | defines it making their policy potentially extremely broad?
           | 
           | Or push back against how hypothetical future AI is regulated
           | in 2023
        
         | zackmorris wrote:
         | Ya I totally agree. I'm disappointed that recent AI is being
         | rolled out in just exactly the wrong ways that I was always
         | worried it would be:                 * AI being sold as SAAS
         | instead of evolving on everyone's computer.       * An emerging
         | market writing prompts to work around primitive attempts at
         | security in LLMs that will likely never pan out (without real
         | trust mechanisms).       * Security in AI being implemented as
         | a series of hacks rather than a broad understanding of ethics
         | (may lead to cognitive dissonance and irrational behavior like
         | Stockholm Syndrome in artificial agents).       * Running on
         | the wrong type of GPU/SIMD hardware (instead of infinitely
         | scalable CPU clusters running mainstream desktop computing
         | languages and algorithms that could be run distributed on the
         | web).       * Using the most complex neural net algorithms
         | (instead of the other dozen simpler approaches like genetic
         | algorithms, simulated annealing, etc that accomplish the same
         | thing since they all hill climb within a large problem space).
         | * Companies training AIs on billions of parameters derived from
         | users' private data instead of public information on the web.
         | * AIs being trained to solve art/music/creative writing (which
         | humans enjoy) instead of commercial and industrial work (which
         | humans generally try to avoid).       * The intelligence of AI
         | ever-increasing while the wisdom of AI to solve big issues like
         | climate change and automating labor to deliver UBI and liberate
         | humanity from wage slavery being almost an afterthought.
         | * OpenAI being effectively a closed and wholly-owned subsidiary
         | of Microsoft (of all companies).       * The evolution of AI
         | being directed by billionaires and moneyed interests instead of
         | ordinary parents, teachers, etc who could raise AIs like
         | children, or at least interactively like Anakin and C3P0.
         | 
         | It sounds like they're throwing money at these problems in the
         | form of the $10 million grant pool. Which is great, but IMHO
         | the reason that AI advanced so slowly before this is that
         | millions of people around the world live under forced working
         | conditions where all of their productivity is either skimmed
         | for profit or siphoned off for rents and consumption of staple
         | resources.
         | 
         | Any one of us could have worked on interesting problems like
         | AI, but we've spent our lives developing CRUD apps to help
         | others work towards their goals. This is the fundamental
         | problem that I would like to solve, across all disciplines.
         | Perhaps by automating computer programming, so that we're all
         | out of a job and can put our creativity towards getting real
         | work done again. (Thankfully?) this will inevitably happen in
         | about 10 years anyway.
         | 
         | So I'm looking down the road to 2033 when AGI has arrived and
         | we're still all under the yoke working month to month to make
         | rent, which is my worst fear. So far things are unfolding just
         | the way I worried they would, so I've begun to think of AI as
         | yet another weight that will begin to crush down around all of
         | us like social media has, increasing wealth inequality to even
         | more unbelievable levels as the vast majority of us struggle to
         | survive.
        
       | bambax wrote:
       | > _This leads to the fundamental challenge: how can humans steer
       | and trust AI systems much smarter than them?_
       | 
       | Our pets do this all the time. We're smarter than them (to a
       | degree) yet they trust us absolutely, with their lives.
       | 
       | Maybe our destiny is to be pets to machines.
        
         | justinwlin wrote:
         | I think there's a _smidge_ too much variance in pet QoL for me
         | to be ok with that outcome. Just ask PETA
        
           | BobaFloutist wrote:
           | You're mostly right, but do not, under any circumstances, ask
           | PETA.
        
         | righthand wrote:
         | Enjoy your tuna and beef flavored human chow.
        
           | morkalork wrote:
           | Is that really much worse than what's on offer at McDonald's?
        
             | righthand wrote:
             | I couldn't tell you I don't eat McDonalds or dog food.
        
           | tomohelix wrote:
           | I mean, if it is cheap, healthy, nutritious, and doesn't
           | taste like cardboard, then I would not mind at all. In fact,
           | I would voluntarily use it as a staple food.
        
             | righthand wrote:
             | It tastes like puppy chow. You're comfortable eating the
             | same thing every day for every meal right?
        
         | BoiledCabbage wrote:
         | > Our pets do this all the time. We're smarter than them (to a
         | degree) yet they trust us absolutely, with their lives.
         | 
         | With two caveats. Our pets overall don't steer us. They may
         | nudge us to do certain actions, but in the end, we're the ones
         | determining the parameters of the relationship not them. Humans
         | abuse or give pets up for adoption way more often then pets do
         | those to humans.
         | 
         | The second thing is close pets dogs particularly (and likely
         | cats) were forced to evolve over many generations to take that
         | role in the relationship. Those dogs that maintained any
         | independence or whose goal wasn't to please their human owners
         | were effectively bred out of existence.
        
       | willmadden wrote:
       | >We believe superintelligence could arrive within the next 10
       | years.
       | 
       | Generating predictive output is not consciousness or
       | superintelligence. I think the "superintelligence" talk is more
       | of a ploy to scare the industry into regulatory capture.
       | Remember, AI deeply threatens the existing business models of
       | tech monopolies.
        
         | Baeocystin wrote:
         | On it's own, I would agree with you. Put in to a feedback loop
         | with some form of drive/motivation as a guide, though? I think
         | at that point we'll firmly be in quacks like a duck territory.
         | And I no longer think that is as far-fetched as I would have
         | even a year ago.
         | 
         | Either way, I definitely agree with you on the regulatory
         | capture angle.
        
           | willmadden wrote:
           | AI may eventually help us discover if human consciousness and
           | conscious will are determined by the physical properties of
           | our biology, or if something else is in play. Physical
           | determinism within the confines of our understanding is the
           | mainstream academic view on consciousness. I find it highly
           | questionable. We shall see.
        
             | Jerrrry wrote:
             | Just because it blurs what the definition of "illusion" and
             | "perception" mean to everyone but pedantic philosophers
             | doesn't make it any more or less powerful, dangerous, and
             | species-impacting.
        
       | technocratius wrote:
       | > This leads to the fundamental challenge: how can humans steer
       | and trust AI systems much smarter than them?
       | 
       | I think, as a first question to be answered prior to this one,
       | the word "how" should be removed from this sentence.
        
       | seydor wrote:
       | is alignment the new security? openAI seems obsessed with that,
       | meanwhile open source models are coming increasingly close. maybe
       | they see business opportunity in the new security
        
       | irascibeth wrote:
       | > We believe superintelligence could arrive within the next 10
       | years
       | 
       | This has been the case since the 60s. "could arrive within 10
       | years" is the tech equivalent of "maybe within our lifetimes".
       | Nothing to see here.
        
         | morkalork wrote:
         | Maybe we can ask it to design a commercially feasible fusion
         | reactor for us when it arrives!
        
       | papito wrote:
       | I am not sure autonomous driving will arrive in the next 10
       | years, let alone AGI.
       | 
       | These people are masterful con artists, throwing out buzzwords to
       | hoover up billions of gullible VC dollars (a single tear rolls
       | down my eye).
       | 
       | How is that Web 3.0 going? Did we build Richard Hendricks's new
       | Internet yet - sometimes I think they take ideas from the HBO
       | comedy just to f*k with us.
       | 
       | Granted, LLMs are a much more useful and substantial tech than
       | Blockchain, it's an insult to [biological] intelligence to
       | suggest that if we somehow train these things on JUST a bit more
       | data, they will go sentient and murder us all.
       | 
       | The AI image generators still don't know that humans have five
       | fingers. I think it's a long way to super-intelligence, friends.
        
       | bionhoward wrote:
       | Id be shocked by them ignoring the blatant "customer noncompete
       | clause dystopian hellscape loophole" thing again today and
       | tweeting bloviating research white papers instead of performing
       | literally 30 seconds of basic HTML or Next.JS code deletion, but
       | I've already been shocked by it every day for weeks and at this
       | point it's just funny to chuckle at their idiocracy.
       | 
       | Gee, should take a whole minute of one person's day we delete the
       | felony level explicit anticompetitive one liner from our terms
       | which also happens to be an existential AI Safety nightmare
       | because human brains are models in development? Nah, let's write
       | a research paper about AI SAFETY!
       | 
       | https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/974519864045756454/11...
       | 
       | https://discord.com/channels/974519864045756446/118419694649...
       | 
       | Way to go OpenAI!
        
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