[HN Gopher] Sci-Fi Interfaces: Hackers
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Sci-Fi Interfaces: Hackers
        
       Author : rx_tx
       Score  : 247 points
       Date   : 2023-12-14 06:23 UTC (16 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (scifiinterfaces.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (scifiinterfaces.com)
        
       | LeoPanthera wrote:
       | "The scene starts with Joey sitting in front of his Macintosh
       | personal computer"
       | 
       | Oops. Joey's computer is an Apple IIgs.
        
         | bitwize wrote:
         | It has a Mac interface though.
         | 
         | The IIGS actually had a Mac-like interface called GS/OS, but it
         | looked real grotty compared to Mac OS, to accommodate the
         | IIGS's lower resolution.
        
       | lanternfish wrote:
       | Hmm. Now I'm curious if you could actually get a 3d interface
       | with all that information dynamically rendered running with
       | reasonable performance on period accurate personal hardware -
       | it's definitely in the scope of the 95 demo scene stuff.
        
         | lulesp wrote:
         | This is the vision of the cybersecurity company i'm working
         | for, to render information systems in a 3d interface. It works
         | fine on mid-range hardware and can render assets (hardware and
         | linked users) in the thousands, for more you'd have to segment
         | your interface in secondary instances.
         | 
         | It's mainly for SecOps team tho, can't go full matrix yet on
         | your home network.
        
         | justsomehnguy wrote:
         | You need a working Z-buffer and then it could be pretty fast.
         | S3 Trio came out in 1995 too and was decent enough.
        
         | jsemrau wrote:
         | While I loved the 3D imagination of the 90s, 3D navigation is
         | not the shortest way to the needed information. Imagine your
         | file structure would be organized like a video game? It's the
         | same reason why transparent touch screens and VR doesn't really
         | work.
        
         | jimmySixDOF wrote:
         | 3D interfaces so far usually mean you navigate a 3D model of
         | some digital space which appears to you behind a 2D screen
         | accessible with a keyboard and a mouse which are 3D physical
         | objects in your 3D real world (keyboard,video,mouse).
         | 
         | 3D interfaces are quit different without the 2D screen barrier
         | and either your are inside the experience (VR) or the
         | experience is outside around you (MR/AR).
        
         | pmarreck wrote:
         | Circa 2000 I interviewed for a three-letter-acronym agency that
         | shall remain unnamed and they were interested in me working on
         | a 3D visualization interface of traffic across a network which
         | actually sounded pretty fascinating. Sort of like "packet
         | filter plus visualization" after given physical location
         | information about the computers in question; even without that
         | information, though, it would use something like the graphviz
         | algorithm (or one of its options) to lay out the map on a 2D
         | plane in 3D. Different kinds of traffic was color-coded, you
         | could zoom in and inspect any stream, roll forward or backwards
         | in history, etc.
        
           | ynniv wrote:
           | A s/TV network/Three Letter Agency/ that wishes to remain
           | nameless              We have no names, man, no names. We are
           | nameless. Can I score a fry? Thanks.
        
       | dusted wrote:
       | I wrote about hackers too,
       | http://www.dusted.dk/pages/phlog/2023-12-02.txt the gist of that
       | rant is that what you see in hackers is not what's not their
       | screens, but what's in their minds, through a poetic lens.
        
         | PrimeMcFly wrote:
         | That's a pretty nice interpretation!
        
         | ethbr1 wrote:
         | Well said. It's amazing how often people dismiss computer
         | visualization in media (< ~2005) as "unrealistic."
         | 
         | That's not the goal!
         | 
         | It's intended to be representative of the _process_ of
         | interacting with a computer, not the interface itself. At a
         | time when most viewers had little or no first-hand experience
         | with a computer.
         | 
         | If you showed a CLI then, maybe 1/20 people would understand
         | it, and they'd be bored because they used it everyday at work.
        
           | necrotic_comp wrote:
           | That's exactly right! I didn't see hackers until I was in my
           | mid 30s, but when they had the initial flyover of the city
           | representing tables in a database ... I had a moment where I
           | said "my goodness, this is the closest representation of how
           | I think of data".
           | 
           | It's like when you're reading a book - you don't think about
           | the words, the concepts and people come to life in your
           | brain. I feel like this is the only movie to get that that
           | happens with computers, too.
        
             | chromaton wrote:
             | "I tried to picture clusters of information as they moved
             | through the computer. What did they look like? Ships,
             | motorcycles? Were the circuits like freeways? I kept
             | dreaming of a world I thought I'd never see. And then, one
             | day, I got in..."
        
               | secretforest wrote:
               | Tron Legacy. Such a good film. My kids and I watch it a
               | few times a year. I tried watching the original from 1982
               | and it just felt so... dated? Perhaps I'm spoiled like
               | most people from all the great CGI and effects.
        
         | pohl wrote:
         | That was my interpretation, too, but this article shows me The
         | Plauge skateboarding through physical towers, etc. Not sure
         | such scenes can be written off as happening in Joey's mind.
        
         | sgt wrote:
         | I like your blog format. Kinda reminds me of Phrack.
        
         | bitshiftfaced wrote:
         | One of my favorite scenes is when the protagonist is in the
         | airplane looking down at the city, and the buildings warp into
         | computer chips and circuitry. This fits well with the idea that
         | what we're seeing is more about the feeling that the characters
         | are experiencing rather than what's actually on their screen.
        
         | codingdave wrote:
         | I always figured it was the closest they could do to the
         | descriptions of hacking from Neuromancer. Especially since the
         | computer was named the "Gibson", I figured the whole thing was
         | a great big nod to it.
        
       | Mainan_Tagonist wrote:
       | This is a nice website, with an interesting purpose. Though i
       | suppose reviewing sci-Fi movies notions of interfaces will soon
       | clash with the dryness of reality.
       | 
       | The 90's were wild in that sense, you could imagine that the
       | internet superhighway would be a superhighway you could literally
       | drive on with your Avatar, and countless movies and tv-series
       | presented things thus.
       | 
       | The noughties were way more grounded in reality, even the Matrix
       | had Trinity hacking into a server using a OpenSSH exploit on a
       | black and white terminal.
        
         | dragonwriter wrote:
         | > The 90's were wild in that sense, you could imagine that the
         | internet superhighway would be a superhighway you could
         | literally drive on with your Avatar, and countless movies and
         | tv-series presented things thus.
         | 
         | > The noughties were way more grounded in reality, even the
         | Matrix had Trinity hacking into a server using a OpenSSH
         | exploit on a black and white terminal.
         | 
         | That's a wild contrast to try to draw, since the actual direct
         | experience of the network in the Matrix (and which is the focus
         | of the film) was an immersive virtual reality of exactly the
         | type you are trying to contrast the portrayal in the Matrix
         | with, and the "hacking in to a server with an OpenSSH exploit"
         | occurred as a simulation within that virtual reality.
        
           | Mainan_Tagonist wrote:
           | True enough, though if Trinity could jump between skyscrapers
           | and run against a wall before disarming 5 machine gun totting
           | henchmen, i imagine she could have enabled transparency in
           | her Xterm in Enlightenment.
           | 
           | But in more general terms, the representation of computer
           | interfaces, with avatars walking rigidly in 3d pastel
           | coloured surroundings (as presented in a variety of examples,
           | my favorite being the corporate network in the TV Series
           | Profit) sort of fizzled out post 2000, when everybody got to
           | owning a desktop and laptop and realised that the internet
           | was just text in fact, and 3D environments were not so easy
           | to navigate (remember Second-Life).
           | 
           | That is, of course, if your online life did not involve being
           | an elf in World of Warcraft, or something.
        
             | ethbr1 wrote:
             | ~1999, you would have had Pentium III @ ~500 MHz max in a
             | laptop, likely less. Pentium M wouldn't release for several
             | more years.
             | 
             | So transparency was arguably still something a true hacker
             | wouldn't waste cycles on.
             | 
             | To your general point, it felt like there was a shift
             | around 2000, when computers needed to be "serious business"
             | and the whimsy of the 80s and 90s was scrubbed out of
             | software.
             | 
             | Honestly, I think we all would have been better off if we'd
             | turned the web to something more approachable for common
             | people (especially if it inspired them to be creators).
             | 
             | Instead, we built a brutalist efficient system where most
             | expression is limited to setting your background.
        
               | anthk wrote:
               | In the 90's even hackers loved some bling-bling. Maybe
               | not with E16, but some WMaker with a nice backdrop and a
               | transparent UXTerm was really nice and much faster than
               | the emerging KDE in late 90's.
               | 
               | Also, heck, it was cool and pretty having some city at
               | night while you were day and night with URxvt with links
               | or lynx on it reading media and posting to fora.
        
               | jasomill wrote:
               | Yup. Circa 1997, I switched from AfterStep to (then-new)
               | Enlightenment briefly before settling on WindowMaker as a
               | good balance between bling and performance.
               | 
               | My PC at the time was a hand-me-down white box AMD 386
               | (40 MHz) running FreeBSD 2.x.
        
               | Mainan_Tagonist wrote:
               | "~1999, you would have had Pentium III @ ~500 MHz max in
               | a laptop, likely less. Pentium M wouldn't release for
               | several more years."
               | 
               | and, Boy, did i waste cycles on enabling every eye candy
               | possible on Linux/BSD on the only 150 Mhz Pentium pro
               | with 32Mb of ram i could afford in 2001-2002...
               | 
               | "Instead, we built a brutalist efficient system where
               | most expression is limited to setting your background."
               | 
               | Common people being creative was MySpace, remember the
               | eyesore?
               | 
               | Just being sarcastic, i think the "Ugly" web of early
               | HTML was actually wonderful, and we should encourage
               | people to go back to it, but let's not delude ourselves
               | too much, FaceStagram will always win the appeal of the
               | masses.
        
               | sonicanatidae wrote:
               | I think the change you mentioned (2000) has to do with
               | maturity of the tech, as well as, maturity of the
               | acceptance of this tech, as part of everyday life.
               | 
               | As far as the state of the web today, you can thank
               | commercial entities. Yes, they did/do contribute to the
               | web's existance, but at the same time, they make it much
               | worse.
        
         | Daub wrote:
         | I complelove this website. A great resource.
        
         | Paul-Craft wrote:
         | _Minority Report_ came out in 2002, and I can tell you,
         | actually using a computer interface like that for an extended
         | period of time would be pretty exhausting.
        
           | anjel wrote:
           | OTOH,No need to fight desktop sedentary fx, the OS exercises
           | you.
        
         | btbuildem wrote:
         | My fave sci-fi UI review was on the "other" site -- previous HN
         | discussion here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27287912
         | 
         | IMO "The Expanse" got futuristic UIs extremely right.
        
       | dschuetz wrote:
       | Who else is hearing the legendary soundtrack seeing those
       | screengrabs?
        
         | ivolimmen wrote:
         | O yes:
         | https://open.spotify.com/track/5xcunlfaZvD9BDQsLONI7A?si=0f0...
        
         | Neil44 wrote:
         | That soundtrack was amazing. Orital, Leftfield, Massive Attack,
         | Prodigy, Underworld...
        
           | sonicanatidae wrote:
           | I still put Halcyon and on and on, in my playlists, entirely
           | thanks to this movie. :)
        
         | LeoPanthera wrote:
         | The soundtrack album was recently re-released in a 2CD pack
         | with lots of extra tracks missing from the original version.
         | Recommended.
        
       | PrimeMcFly wrote:
       | Not exactly related, but I'm shocked by the amount of people,
       | older people even working in IT who mock the girl in Jurassic
       | Park saying "it's a Unix system, I know this", when in fact what
       | they showed was a Unix system and the 3D interface they showed
       | was real software SGI shipped with IRIX.
        
         | gjvc wrote:
         | most people in IT don't do any research beyond six inches in
         | front of their face and task at hand.
        
         | aa-jv wrote:
         | They wanted to say "this is an SGI system!" but had to go with
         | "this is a Unix system" ..
        
         | eesmith wrote:
         | Because its unlikely that the girl would have had access to an
         | IRIX box, and while it was real software, it was dog-slow on
         | low-end SGI without a graphics card, so she had to be using
         | some pretty expensive hardware.
         | 
         | As a filesystem browser it was not useful. Someone with Unix
         | system experience would prefer a 2D browser, which IRIX also
         | had.
         | 
         | We only used the 3D browser for our demo setup for visitors.
        
           | eternityforest wrote:
           | I don't remember her ever saying she actually has experience
           | with the browser, just that she knows it. She could have just
           | used UNIX in general and only read a lot about the file
           | browser, or perhaps briefly tried then incredibly slow
           | version.
           | 
           | It's not even too much of a stretch to imagine she has never
           | seen the file browser, but is able to figure it out on like
           | one can with modern GUI apps.
        
             | eesmith wrote:
             | "I know how to use it" is a bit stronger than "I know it."
             | 
             | fsv (the 3d file browser) was not shipped with IRIX, the 2d
             | file browser was.
             | 
             | It's a pretty big stretch.
        
           | PrimeMcFly wrote:
           | She didn't need to know IRIX if she knew some other flavor of
           | Unix, she was probably savvy enough to use man and access
           | documentation if needed.
           | 
           | The point is though most mock the scene as though the
           | software they show was entirely fictional and made up, when
           | it was in fact real and was in fact still UNIX.
        
             | eesmith wrote:
             | I don't know why others mock it, but as an older person
             | working in IT, I can explain why I mock it even when
             | knowing it was real software SGI shipped with IRIX.
             | 
             | (Minor correction: it was not shipped with IRIX but a free
             | demo you could ftp. After 30 years I had forgotten that
             | until looking at https://web.archive.org/web/20070409024417
             | /http://www.sgi.co... and similar sites just now.)
        
               | PrimeMcFly wrote:
               | > I can explain why I mock it even when knowing it was
               | real software SGI shipped with IRIX.
               | 
               | OK, please do.
        
               | eesmith wrote:
               | Literally my top-level comment in this thread.
        
               | PrimeMcFly wrote:
               | I hadn't realized that was your reason for mocking the
               | scene, I had thought it was just being kind of pedantic
               | and making an observation about the scene.
        
             | sumtechguy wrote:
             | The one that really yanked me out of the movie was the
             | first tom cruise mission impossible and he does a web
             | search for 'job'.
        
               | PrimeMcFly wrote:
               | Yeah that's pretty bad. I don't know what I'd say the
               | worst movie scene was, most of my bad examples come from
               | TV. That CSI visual basic example is pretty infamous.
        
           | buzziebee wrote:
           | She was the granddaughter of a billionaire so it's not
           | unreasonable to imagine she may indeed have had access to
           | high end hardware. "No expense spared".
        
             | luismedel wrote:
             | > No expense spared
             | 
             | but he only has one single IT guy in oncall during the
             | emergency :-)
        
               | esrauch wrote:
               | I think that part is actually explained:
               | 
               | - the storm evacuates most people, essential staff only
               | 
               | - Nedry deliberately creates the IT emergency situation
               | to lock out the other IT people still on the island
               | 
               | - The book has more details about how the IT system was
               | over budget/rushed/flawed as another example of the
               | hubris of the whole endeavor.
               | 
               | The book has a detail I especially liked: theres an
               | automatic dinosaur counting system but it was written
               | such that it stops counting once it finds all of the
               | expected dinos (because the spec said they couldn't
               | reproduce), which delayed them realizing that the
               | dinosaurs were actually mating and in a bunch of places
               | they weren't supposed to be. Classic example of a bug
               | caused by software working correctly exactly to the spec.
        
             | eesmith wrote:
             | The I would expect "It's an SGI, I know how to use it."
             | 
             | Familiarity with 4dwm doesn't really transfer to NeXTStep
             | or SunView, which were two other Unix window managers of
             | the time.
             | 
             | The people she interacted with would surely distinguish
             | between different Unix vendors - Apollo, Ridge, SGI, Sun,
             | etc. - we certainly did.
        
               | PrimeMcFly wrote:
               | You're being unreasonably hard on a fictional 12 year old
               | lol. IRIX is UNIX. She said she knows UNIX. It's fine.
        
               | eesmith wrote:
               | I'm not hard on a fictional 12 year old.
               | 
               | I'm explaining why someone in the early 1990s,
               | knowledgeable about Unix, IRIX, and fsn, would mock the
               | adults who created that scene about a fictional 12 year
               | old.
               | 
               | If the makers of The Matrix gets credit for its realistic
               | looking use of nmap and a fictional "sshnuke", then
               | Jurassic Park should get jeers.
               | 
               | We don't credit Trinity for that scene, we credit the
               | creators of that scene.
        
               | PrimeMcFly wrote:
               | No, you are being hard on the character, and it's kind of
               | ridiculous. IRIX is Unix, she recognized it as Unix, it's
               | not more complicated than that.
               | 
               | It's the people mocking the scene as unrealistic, most of
               | which do so because they didn't know the software seen on
               | screen was real, deserve jeers.
        
               | eesmith wrote:
               | And you are being hard on me, and it's kind of
               | ridiculous.
               | 
               | Knowing Unix is not the same as knowing to use a program
               | which only exists on one version of Unix, and which was
               | not distributed with the OS, and which was less helpful
               | at file system exploration than both the 2d file manager
               | [1] and 1970s-based Unix shell tools [2].
               | 
               | You specifically called out "older people even working in
               | IT", which includes me. Just because you want to jeer at
               | people who don't know what you know doesn't mean there
               | aren't other reasons to jeer at the same scene.
               | 
               | [1] Here's what the IRIX 2D file browser looked like in
               | 1990:
               | https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=IRB2MkMxgy0
               | 
               | [2] On a related note, The Great CHI '97 Browse-Off was a
               | non-rigorous head-to-head contest between different
               | hierarchical browsers. The Hyperbolic Browser was the
               | clear winner, with Windows Explorer coming in second, and
               | the DOS command-line doing pretty well until it came to
               | comparison questions like "Which planet is also the name
               | of a car brand?" where both categories in the ontology
               | needed to be compared.
        
               | PrimeMcFly wrote:
               | > And you are being hard on me, and it's kind of
               | ridiculous.
               | 
               | No, lol, I'm not. I'm just disagreeing with you, and
               | pointing out that IMO your point doesn't have much merit.
               | I don't think that's a ridiculous response to what you're
               | claiming at all.
               | 
               | > Knowing Unix is not the same as knowing to use a
               | program which only exists on one version of Unix
               | 
               | She didn't say she knew a program which exists on one
               | version of Unix, she just said she recognized the type of
               | system. That's it. That's the claim she was making.
               | 
               | It's pretty similar to the hypothetical situation of a
               | kid finding a mac and saying "This is a Macintosh, I know
               | this" and using the finder to browse and look for a
               | program to run. Same thing, with the only difference
               | being Unix refers to a variety of operating systems not
               | just one particular OS.
               | 
               | And you're making a big deal about how she probably
               | wouldn't have known IRIX and all this, but that doesn't
               | really make sense and it's extremely nitpicky. Others
               | have explained why.
               | 
               | > You specifically called out "older people even working
               | in IT", which includes me. Just because you want to jeer
               | at people who don't know what you know doesn't mean there
               | aren't other reasons to jeer at the same scene.
               | 
               | As I said though, most people who jeer at the scene do so
               | on the mistaken assumption that the software scene on
               | screen didn't exist.
               | 
               | I've not actually ever come across someone like yourself
               | who doesn't refute that, but is just basically being very
               | nitpicky and IMO unrealistic.
        
           | dale_glass wrote:
           | > Because its unlikely that the girl would have had access to
           | an IRIX box
           | 
           | She's related to Hammond, who owns an island. I'm sure he
           | could get her an old box and some manuals to play with, if
           | not outright a state of the art system.
           | 
           | > As a filesystem browser it was not useful. Someone with
           | Unix system experience would prefer a 2D browser, which IRIX
           | also had.
           | 
           | But isn't that exactly the sort of thing a clever kid with
           | access to fancy stuff would mess around with?
           | 
           | > We only used the 3D browser for our demo setup for
           | visitors.
           | 
           | Which would perfectly explain why it popped up on the
           | production systems. To make it look fancier for Hammond/any
           | investors/the people visiting in the movie.
        
             | anthk wrote:
             | Using the 3D browser would be akin to saying "That's Linux"
             | upong seeing a Compiz cube a few years ago. I mean, yes, it
             | would be technically correct, but not a defining term for
             | deeply knowing Linux and its intrinsics.
        
               | PrimeMcFly wrote:
               | It's not weird or wrong in any way though. Plenty of
               | people were running compiz for a while, and a kid into
               | Linux would recognize it.
        
               | dale_glass wrote:
               | Yeah, so? She's a bright 12 year old, not a burnt out and
               | jaded Unix sysadmin with 20 years of experience.
        
             | eesmith wrote:
             | "would mess around with", certainly. And quickly find it
             | wasn't useful for actual file system navigation.
             | 
             | The 2D file browser for IRIX was pretty nice, with vector
             | icons. https://sgi.neocities.org/1.png shows an example
             | from https://sgi.neocities.org/ .
             | 
             | I made a mistake when I said we used it for demos. We did
             | not use fsv for that. I was thinking of buttonfly - see
             | example to the left of http://www.sgistuff.net/software/iri
             | xintro/images/irix-4.0.1... .
             | 
             | I did try out fsv, but again, it was slow on the desktop
             | machine I had, and not useful.
        
           | 111111101101 wrote:
           | When I was a kid I had access to all sorts of exotic
           | operating systems. SunOS, VMS, all sorts of Unixes. I was a
           | very naughty boy.
        
             | eesmith wrote:
             | SunOS and VMS were two of the most common
             | workstation/minicomputer-class OSes out there, and rather
             | less exotic than IRIX.
             | 
             | I'm old enough that my college-freshman "intro to
             | computers" and Fortran classes were taught on a CDC Cyber
             | running NOS.
        
           | bitwize wrote:
           | What if she were originally baffled by the 3D display, and
           | then saw recognizable paths like /bin and /usr and realized
           | the system was actually familiar?
        
           | butlike wrote:
           | They spared no expense at Jurassic Park, you know.
        
           | test098 wrote:
           | i grew up in university computer labs (parents were grad
           | students then professors). all the machines in the labs were
           | SGI Indys/Indigos running IRIX 4.x/5.x. as a 12yo, i used the
           | 3D graphical file browser because it was fun and cool. it was
           | installed on all the machines by default because it came
           | bundled in a demo CD with every machine.
        
             | UncleSlacky wrote:
             | There's a modern clone of it now:
             | https://fsv.sourceforge.net/
        
         | pelagicAustral wrote:
         | Well, the fix was probably around the lines of:
         | sudo systemctl restart gates
         | 
         | But, whatever, I mean, there are literal dinosaurs going
         | around, I guess that's the more plausible plotline.
        
           | PrimeMcFly wrote:
           | What is the 'that' you are referring to as far as being the
           | more plausible plotline?
           | 
           | I don't think it's weird for a kid with some computing
           | knowledge to use a filebrowser to look for where a program
           | might be.
        
             | pelagicAustral wrote:
             | Well, we are talking about managing critical infrastructure
             | on a theme park riddled with dinosaurs. Potentially the
             | definition of working under pressure.
             | 
             | I wouldn't think even teenage Kevin Mitnick on Mountain Dew
             | can himself bypass the terminal security (if any), prompt
             | his way to the safety mechanisms, and override their
             | behavior. All while being assailed by a velociraptor.
        
               | PrimeMcFly wrote:
               | You didn't answer my question; I just don't get what you
               | are saying is more plausible. Is it that the girl knew
               | Unix at all or something else?
        
               | test098 wrote:
               | pretty simple explanation: the girl in the movie is more
               | talented than teenage kevin mitnick. if that's a bridge
               | too far for you, i'd recommend not watching the rest of
               | the movie because it's about people cloning dinosaurs
               | using frog DNA.
        
           | Enginerrrd wrote:
           | Ah but this was pre-systemd so you would have been screwing
           | around trying to find whatever script was being used to lock
           | the doors after close of business.
        
             | sgt wrote:
             | Well it's IRIX, so you'd just create a little bourne shell
             | script in /etc/init.d, with symlinks from e.g. /etc/rc2.d
             | to start/kill it on the respective run levels.
             | 
             | This was a pretty critical system though so why not just
             | place this particular program inside /etc/inittab ?
        
             | Izkata wrote:
             | Before systemd:                 sudo service gates restart
             | 
             | ...and after too, it still exists and maps to systemctl on
             | ones that use systemd.
        
       | devjab wrote:
       | I think the thing I was/is most disappointed about is that I can
       | buy the key caps that Cereal Killer uses for a Nordic keyboard
       | layout. God damn those were cool.
        
         | jonhohle wrote:
         | Or a laptop with a translucent case!
        
           | roughly wrote:
           | I still want one. Apparently Framework looked at it, but they
           | couldn't find a good plastic with the right combination of
           | traits.
        
       | badrabbit wrote:
       | Bit embarrased to say I tried to implement the 3d file browser
       | from this movie and failed when I was first learning C. I did get
       | the 3d boxes to show up and display files/folders and it was cool
       | (to me) to move them around in 3d but doing even slightly complex
       | stuff required "polynomial math" which was beyond my skill level.
       | 
       | It still saddens me irrationally to see the state of UX today. It
       | isn't cool and i have many visions of doing all this stuff with
       | webgl and more (not 3d boxes but futuristic yet practical UI).
       | Modern UX feels like art majors designed it by a committee and
       | MBAs+lawyers were the target audience. I no longer even see
       | anyone in tech thinking out if the box with radicallu new
       | windowing systems and alternatives to hypertext and browsers.
        
         | eternityforest wrote:
         | I'm more saddened by the state of hardware. It's amazing and
         | very practical and basically perfect for everyday use... But it
         | was a lot cooler back then.
         | 
         | WebGL file management doesn't seem to hard to implement, I'm
         | guessing it would be a weekend project to make a demo, now that
         | one doesn't actually need math to draw 3D stuff.
        
           | badrabbit wrote:
           | > now that one doesn't actually need math to draw 3D stuff.
           | 
           | Even for camera movements/projection stuff? News to me,
           | haven't messed with 3d since around 2010.
        
       | ptek wrote:
       | Hack the planet
       | 
       | A fun movie
       | 
       | I wonder if it was filmed 10 years later if everyone would be
       | wearing Crocs and not rollerblades.
        
         | Ryoung27 wrote:
         | Excuse me, I think you mean Heelys.
        
       | rwmj wrote:
       | Interview with the guy who made the perspex "buildings"(?) props
       | that represented the central computer database, with a photo of
       | one of them if you scroll down a bit:
       | 
       | https://web.archive.org/web/20180301013110/http%3A//hackersc...
        
       | ulfbert_inc wrote:
       | I think City of Text thing is onto something, and reminds me
       | immediately of memory palace[1] method.
       | 
       | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Method_of_loci
        
       | lagrange77 wrote:
       | I recently stumbled upon this
       | 
       | https://usegpu.live/demo/geometry/binary
       | 
       | and it reminded me of the city of text.
        
         | btbuildem wrote:
         | This is really neat! I wonder how they chose to represent the
         | inner structure of these binaries visually - there seem to be
         | some similarities between the .exes vs the other types.
         | 
         | Reminds me of pointing the viewport address to a block of code
         | on the Amiga 500, and watching it run.
        
           | mk_stjames wrote:
           | Those are trigrams of all 3-byte sequences of binary
           | executables arranged in a cube. Here are some more examples
           | of that type of viz:
           | 
           | https://codisec.com/binary-data-visualization/
           | 
           | And here is a talk about binary visualization by the legend
           | Christopher Domas, which is where I first saw it used:
           | 
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bM3Gut1hIk
        
       | aethelyon wrote:
       | This is awesome, but there were a couple of great laptop
       | interfaces from that movie too. Spent some quality time in the
       | 90s getting AfterStep/Litestep to look like them.
        
       | scroot wrote:
       | Has anyone written about the computers/interfaces in HBO's
       | "Silo"? I've been trying to find information about that because
       | they seem quite interesting.
        
         | adamomada wrote:
         | It's an Apple TV show and those props definitely gave me an
         | old-school Apple computer vibe. Now I'm wondering how
         | intentional it is
        
       | tecleandor wrote:
       | Funny that I didn't notice until very recently that the computer
       | operator was Penn Jillette, the magician!
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2OYNMO_mNw
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYE2amC9vMY
        
         | anjel wrote:
         | More than magicians, Penn Gillette was in the jacket scene.
         | Anyone remember existing into his bbs from the late 1980s?
        
           | jasomill wrote:
           | He also wrote a column for _PC /Computing_ magazine in the
           | early '90s.
        
       | k2enemy wrote:
       | If you're a fan of the movie, this youtube channel has amazing
       | interviews with cast and crew. So many great anecdotes buried
       | within...
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/@HackersCurator/videos
        
         | pmarreck wrote:
         | I never thought such a hyperfocused channel would be this
         | fascinating!
        
         | dusted wrote:
         | Oh, that's excellent! Thank you! Now I know what to do with my
         | evening! ;)
        
       | Reason077 wrote:
       | Oh man. Legendary film. Young Angelina Jolie in her hacker outfit
       | with her Spock haircut ... am I right?
        
         | PrimeMcFly wrote:
         | You made it weird by mentioning a Spock haircut.
        
           | js2 wrote:
           | How about young Persis Khambatta in her Star Trek outfit with
           | her Mr. Clean haircut ... am I right?
        
             | Reason077 wrote:
             | I was more into the young Kirstie Alley playing the sexy
             | vulcan in Star Trek II. Sadly both actors are no longer
             | with us :(
        
           | NBJack wrote:
           | Sorry man. Hey, have you checked out the pool on the roof
           | yet?
        
         | pmarreck wrote:
         | I crushed on her then before it was cool... and then uncool
         | 
         | Regardless, I knew she'd be "a thing" when I saw that movie
        
         | secretforest wrote:
         | I rather like the look, even now. I also liked T'Pol in Star
         | Trek Enterprise.
        
       | mportela wrote:
       | This movie is the reason why I became a programmer.
       | 
       | I watched it when I was starting in high school and got inspired
       | by it. Then, I literally googled "How to become a hacker" and
       | found this incredible page by Eric Raymond [0], which I used as
       | an mentor throughout my high school and college years. I ended up
       | developing the recommended hard skills (learning programming,
       | UNIX, open source culture...) but also the "points of style"
       | (martial arts, science fiction, meditation, music). In fact, when
       | I was trying to search for a hacker community online, I stumbled
       | upon Hacker News and haven't left ever since!
       | 
       | As expected, I didn't become a black hat hacker as in the movie
       | but, to this day, I still believe this movie changed the course
       | of my life.
       | 
       | [0] https://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html
        
         | throw1234651234 wrote:
         | Which martial art? Also, what are your top 3-5 books?
         | 
         | E.g. Snow Crash, Neuromancer, Diamond Age, A Fire Upon the Deep
        
           | secretforest wrote:
           | Good old Neal Stephenson books, but I really like
           | Cryptonomicon and Reamde. I read Cryptonomicon in one day it
           | was that good, and years later read it again and got more
           | from it. Neal is a great writer, and I love his "wordiness",
           | how he dedicated pages to the experience of eating Cap'n
           | Crunch cereal.
        
         | roughly wrote:
         | Same - this is one of those generational films for certain kids
         | of a certain era.
        
         | bradbeam wrote:
         | Likewise.
         | 
         | The exposure to the hackers manifesto was inspiring.
        
           | DustinBrett wrote:
           | Even the word manifesto was new to me and got me interested
           | in what that was about.
        
             | ethbr1 wrote:
             | Right? "Manifesto"?
             | 
             | Obviously commie bullshit.
             | 
             | (Oh, 90s. And when you've got Wendell Pierce and Marc
             | Anthony as your throw-away characters, props!)
        
         | DustinBrett wrote:
         | Same story for me, Hackers was great inspiration and I still
         | watch it often. Hack the Planet!
        
         | crsv wrote:
         | Same. This film made me believe that it was possible to be cool
         | and find a social group that were all in to tech. I grew up in
         | a really rural area so this revelation of possibility, whether
         | actually practical or not, heavily influenced my trajectory in
         | life and in tech. It's still one of my most sentimentally
         | favorite movies of all time.
        
         | rashthedude wrote:
         | You and I share the same exact journey as to how we got there.
         | I've had random conversations over the years with other
         | developers in my age bracket and many of them cite Hackers as
         | the reason that piqued their interest in computing. What this
         | movie lacks in authenticity it makes up for it with an amazing
         | cast, good score and lots of fun.
        
       | lubujackson wrote:
       | My favorite line from the movie - they are huddled around
       | someone's new computer and a character compliments them with:
       | "Killer refresh rate!"
       | 
       | With so many great and much more accurate hacker movies like
       | Sneakers, this one was just so much fun to see evry aspect of
       | hacking amplified to the "X-treme!!!"
        
         | Ryoung27 wrote:
         | My best friend and I still look at each other and say "What?
         | Your mom buy you a Puter for Christmas". That movie had style.
        
       | Zelphyr wrote:
       | I remember seeing this movie when it came out and, while I
       | enjoyed it, I chuckled at how silly the UI graphics looked.
       | However, after rewatching it years later I really enjoyed it even
       | more because I realized that, yes, the UI graphics weren't
       | realistic, the movie did a great job of capturing what tech
       | _felt_ like at the time.
       | 
       | I just rewatched it again recently and find it a thoroughly
       | enjoyable film.
       | 
       | It doesn't look like this site has done a review of Sneakers yet
       | but I recommend they do. The interfaces are much more realistic
       | for the time (even if the cryptography mathematics do suffer a
       | bit)
        
       | zshrdlu wrote:
       | How nice! I've been mulling over doing exactly this for a while
       | :D
        
       | ynniv wrote:
       | Cereal Killer, Lord Nikon, and Phantom Phreak, real names not
       | given.
       | 
       | Disappointing because Cereal Killer's given name was Emmanuel
       | Goldstein, an alias made famous by Eric Corley, editor of 2600:
       | The Hacker Quarterly. Eric consulted on the movie, and it
       | probably would have sucked without him.
        
         | ChrisArchitect wrote:
         | That and more of the names are given in the film, so I dunno if
         | this person even watched it. Lord Nikon aka Paul Cook. Phantom
         | Phreak aka Ramon Sanchez! And the aforementioned nod to 2600
         | for Cereal.
        
           | jghn wrote:
           | And while the connection of Emmanuel Goldstein was already
           | mentioned, I always assumed Paul Cook was referencing the Sex
           | Pistol's drummer
        
         | batguano wrote:
         | And "Emmanuel Goldstein" was the name of a character in the
         | novel 1984. He was the widely despised "enemy of the state"
         | cooked up by the government to justify their autocracy.
        
         | mkehrt wrote:
         | I don't think Cereal Killer's name is Emmanuel Goldstein. That
         | was a joke.
        
           | ynniv wrote:
           | _Woah, this isn 't woodshop class?_
           | 
           | Nope:
           | 
           |  _Get me arrest warrants on Kate Libby, alias Acid Burn,
           | Emmanuel Goldstein, alias Cereal Killer, Dade Murphy, alias
           | Crash Override, also known as Zero Cool, and Paul Cook, alias
           | Lord Nikon. We pick them up tomorrow morning at nine o
           | 'clock._
        
             | mkehrt wrote:
             | Weird.
        
       | ChrisArchitect wrote:
       | This whole article is so draaaaawn out. It's not supposed to be
       | realistic, it's for delivering the story. Hardly any, if any at
       | all, UIs back in the 80s and 90s were realistic. This level
       | analysis just isn't necessary. It's a classic, legendary film for
       | both the content/representation of the subculture, and the 90s
       | "so bad it's good" style.
        
         | wsintra2022 wrote:
         | Probably openAI visual being fed stills from the movie.
        
       | thomastjeffery wrote:
       | My favorite movie hacker tech is Tron: Legacy.
       | 
       | They literally just used Linux and Emacs, and it looks
       | _beautiful_.
        
       | throwaway743 wrote:
       | The 3rd and 4th screenshots (more so the 4th one) remind me of
       | the interfaces from the older Armored Core games
        
       | nier wrote:
       | This movie introduced me to the Wipeout racing game on
       | Playstation.
       | 
       | Scene from the movie: https://youtube.com/watch?v=ATlszssL-eI
       | 
       | More info:
       | https://gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/19751/whats-the-a...
        
       | secretforest wrote:
       | I liked the movie and it reminded me of when I was a kid and my
       | dad bought me a Commodore 64 and 5 1/4 floppy drive and a 1-year
       | subscription to Creative Computing magazine. I spent so many
       | hours learning programming and then wasted it all by going into
       | the military because my parents couldn't afford to send me to
       | university. Rural community and only my dad worked since my
       | mother was injured. When I got out and returned back up north, I
       | got a "job", got married, and had a neighbor who was a Unix
       | programmer. His home office was decked out with FreeBSD, NetBSD,
       | and OpenBSD servers, BSD magazines and literature everywhere. He
       | talked me into using my GI Bill to go get a degree in CS, which
       | is what I did. My unofficial hero since has been Theo de Raadt.
       | Still using a *nix OS, still in IT.
        
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