[HN Gopher] Low-frequency sound can reveal that a tornado is on ...
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       Low-frequency sound can reveal that a tornado is on its way
        
       Author : billybuckwheat
       Score  : 39 points
       Date   : 2023-12-13 18:49 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.bbc.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.bbc.com)
        
       | h2odragon wrote:
       | (1976) https://www.straightdope.com/21341329/how-to-detect-
       | tornados...
       | 
       | Modern TVs, not so much. A quick glance doesn't show anyone
       | working to make an RTLSDR tornado detector, which prolly means I
       | just missed it. Seems like it shouldn't be too hard.
        
         | westurner wrote:
         | Looks like there are RPi infrasound monitors specifically for
         | geologic seismology;
         | 
         | "Raspberry Shake", "RS&BOOM"
         | https://manual.raspberryshake.org/boom.html#technical-specif...
         | https://shop.raspberryshake.org/infrasound/
         | 
         | FWIU infrasound may indicate Earthquake, Fire, Tornado; and
         | probably IDK Stampede?
         | 
         | Infrasound: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infrasound
         | 
         | FWIU the _Phononic_ wave signal is embedded in the _Photonic_
         | wave signal, and so it may be possible to create even less
         | extensive infrasound sensors;
         | 
         | "Quantum light sees quantum sound: phonon/photon correlations"
         | (2023) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37793791
        
       | dylan604 wrote:
       | "They rarely have much warning, but it is often enough to save
       | lives."
       | 
       | I really wish this trope would go away. If you live in an area
       | prone to tornadoes and you "have no warning", then you're just
       | not paying attention. We know tornadoes exist. We know where they
       | tend to frequently occur. The local weather stations in those
       | areas are pretty damn good with warnings. We know days ahead of
       | time that the conditions will be right for potential activity. We
       | can now see potential tornadoes before they are formed. We can
       | track their paths with neighborhood cross street precision.
       | 
       | Nevermind the fact that there's a pretty good indicator when the
       | sky turns dark and the weather changes. Thunder and lightning and
       | wind are essentially the knocking on the door. It's not like it's
       | a sunny day and a tornado just pops out of the sky to say hello.
       | 
       | To say no warning just means they are not paying attention. I
       | don't know what the tornado activity is like where the BBC is
       | from, but it is woefully out of date.
        
         | Kon-Peki wrote:
         | > I don't know what the tornado activity is like where the BBC
         | is from
         | 
         | London. The British Broadcasting Corporation is from London, in
         | the UK. And they do have tornados in the UK.
        
           | philk10 wrote:
           | the article references a team from Oklahoma State University
        
           | marcellus23 wrote:
           | He was not literally asking where the BBC is from.
        
         | pixl97 wrote:
         | Eh, as a person that's lived in tornado alley and done a bit of
         | chasing myself this doesn't really cover all the bases.
         | 
         | Yes, there are high risk days seen pretty far out, and these
         | get all the chasers hot and bothers.
         | 
         | There are also other days with almost no chance of severe
         | weather when you get a spin up tornado that may only last 10-15
         | minutes but does a surprising amount of destruction with no
         | warning.
         | 
         | Add to this that in the midwest/tornado alley you have a lot of
         | other storm days without tornadoes. Out of any given day, one
         | out of 8 will be one with rain, actual tornado days (within 100
         | miles) are far lower.
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | does anything you just retorted with qualify as "rarely
           | having" warning?
        
         | h2odragon wrote:
         | https://www.weather.gov/meg/GibsonWeakleyTornadoSurveyResult...
         | 
         | This twister happened the other day, probably about 20 miles
         | from me. I was aware of the warning and watching the radar; but
         | aside from that I would've had no clue it happened.
         | 
         | We saw the house lights flicker a little bit; there were some
         | clouds to the northwest that looked dark, but not especially
         | menacing, and that was it. Some of the people in the path of
         | that tornado had exactly the same experience, until it was
         | moments away.
         | 
         | This one, in 2021; killed people who were at work. As I recall
         | they warnings had been on and off all day for much of West TN
         | and KY.
         | 
         | https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/local/2021/12/11/...
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | "I sent you a weather forecast, a boat, and a helicopter?
           | What more do you want?"
           | 
           | I'm sorry that people just choose to ignore the weather, but
           | that cannot be the fault of those literally shouting at them
           | to take shelter (some of the weather people can be a bit
           | enthusiastic). The TFA mentions warning fatigue, but that's a
           | weak excuse. Sure, I like to make fun of the forecast as much
           | as the next person, but when the storms do come, the local
           | weather springs to life and all of the tech comes to the
           | forefront. People choose to ignore the warnings at their own
           | peril, but then feel like it's perfectly fine to then say
           | "but we had no warnings".
        
           | otteromkram wrote:
           | 20 miles is pretty far away. What were you expecting?
           | 
           | The factory one is clearly due to negligence.
           | 
           | But, the parent comment alluded to something about "living in
           | an area prone to tornadoes," which would include areas you
           | described.
           | 
           | So, any storm during tornado season would be enough to take
           | precautions or at least be on alert. No?
        
         | tkahnoski wrote:
         | Watches are common, indicators are common, warnings tend to be
         | very last minute.
         | 
         | I consider myself a very weather aware person living near the
         | edge of tornado alley in Dallas, I get all the alerts,
         | generally keep a strong watch on radar development and storm
         | arrival times (hail is just as much as a concern as tornadoes).
         | 
         | In general if there is a detection of a rotation or a strong
         | hail core on radar, emergency sirens will go on near the
         | affected area. Sometimes it just happens too fast, so if there
         | is another method like the article sounds to detect a strong
         | potential a tornado is forming it will absolutely reduce
         | casualties.
         | 
         | As an example I lived through in October 2019. There was one
         | hour between a Tornado Watch being issued and when the EF2/EF3
         | hit the ground. Watches generally last a long time and cover a
         | large area so they aren't particularly helpful to me other than
         | to indicate to 'check the radar on the regular'.
         | 
         | Because I was already glued to my phone I saw the warning right
         | away, I was able to text friends that lived a few minutes from
         | the tornado touchdown point that there was a tornado right next
         | to them. Their sirens hadn't gone off yet, by the time they had
         | taken shelter they heard the sirens and the wind kicking up
         | right after. They got off light on damage compared to the rest
         | of their neighborhood but I can't imagine someone out walking
         | their dog or running an errand and then only having 1 or 2
         | minutes to find shelter. I'm still amazed this thing didn't
         | cause more injuries particularly in the early minutes when the
         | news crews and meteorologist were playing catch up.
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tornado_outbreak_of_October_20...
         | 
         | Maybe this tech would have helped give a clearer indicator
         | versus the usual approach of waiting to see something on radar
         | or manually spotting it. Or maybe some storms will just form
         | too fast to have any useful indicators.
        
       | Tempest1981 wrote:
       | Here's an example of VLF microphones, although I can't find
       | pricing: (kinda want to buy one now to play with)
       | 
       | https://www.grasacoustics.com/products/special-microphone/in...
       | 
       | Excerpt: "To achieve a very low low-frequency cut-off of down to
       | 0.09 Hz, a special microphone combined with a special
       | preamplifier and a low-frequency adapter is used. To account for
       | pressure variations close to 0 Hz, a special ambient pressure
       | equalization system with a very long settling time is used."
        
       | abzgupta wrote:
       | weren't there some bird migration patterns which also signaled
       | future weather calamities?
        
       | remyp wrote:
       | As a lifelong midwesterner I don't need sirens, the internet, TV,
       | radio, or low frequency sound to warn me about a tornado. If it's
       | "green" outside I'm heading down to the basement.
        
         | teeray wrote:
         | Where it's probably more useful is for places like the
         | northeast, where we typically will have a tornado warning or
         | two a year. They aren't the storms of myth and legend you find
         | in the midwest, but they do cause damage and can kill people.
         | For a population who aren't as attuned to the signs of tornado
         | formation, external signals from experts can be useful.
        
         | zoklet-enjoyer wrote:
         | I agree. Tornado weather is very apparent. But it is really
         | cool that there's a new method to detect them.
        
       | myself248 wrote:
       | tl;dr: 10-15 Hz.
       | 
       | In case you were looking for a number.
       | 
       | I wonder if existing weather stations might be able to pull this
       | from their existing barometric sensors, with nothing more than
       | software.
        
         | swells34 wrote:
         | It probably depends on the weather station. The cycle time on
         | those pressure sensors can be ridiculously high and still give
         | decent results; you really only need one measurement per
         | minute. But that should be just one firmware patch away from
         | being a solved problem.
        
       | aj7 wrote:
       | https://amt.copernicus.org/articles/15/2923/2022/amt-15-2923...
        
       | jschveibinz wrote:
       | This link to what DoD uses: https://defense-
       | update.com/20060107_feature-ugs.html
        
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       (page generated 2023-12-13 23:00 UTC)