[HN Gopher] LXD now re-licensed and under a CLA
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       LXD now re-licensed and under a CLA
        
       Author : ropyeett
       Score  : 52 points
       Date   : 2023-12-12 21:18 UTC (1 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (stgraber.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (stgraber.org)
        
       | ropyeett wrote:
       | Looks like Canonical also messed up the licensing in their
       | package: https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/incorrect-license-
       | information-f...
        
       | CoastalCoder wrote:
       | Based on Stephane Graber's post, it sounds like the headline
       | isn't factual.
       | 
       | I.e., Canonical _asserted_ that LXD is now AGPLv3, but lacked the
       | legal authority to do that for some parts of the code base.
       | 
       | CORRECTION: Looks like I was mistaken. See discussion below.
        
         | headhasthoughts wrote:
         | You, too, are wrong. From Canonical's actual announcement:
         | 
         | > Canonical has decided to change the default contributions to
         | the LXD project to AGPLv3 to align with our standard license
         | for server-side code. All Canonical contributions have been
         | relicensed and are now under AGPLv3. Community contributions
         | remain under Apache 2.0.
        
           | CoastalCoder wrote:
           | Thanks for the correction. Seems like the headline was
           | incorrect in a different way.
        
           | tecleandor wrote:
           | You're both kinda correct.
           | 
           | What Stephane was complaining about is the whole Snap package
           | for lxd has been marked as AGPL, and that's not correct.
           | 
           | Check in the store, down, in the license info section:
           | 
           | https://snapcraft.io/lxd
           | 
           | Edit: also, from what I see in the commit, it doesn't make
           | much distinction between what's AGPL and what not. https://gi
           | thub.com/canonical/lxd/pull/12663/commits/b8ff449d...
        
         | dang wrote:
         | The submitted title was "Canonical re-licenses LXD under
         | AGPLv3, slaps a CLA on top". I've changed it to the article's
         | title, in keeping with HN's rule: " _Please use the original
         | title, unless it is misleading or linkbait; don 't
         | editorialize._" -
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
         | 
         | If the current title isn't accurate, and anyone can suggest a
         | more accurate and neutral one, we can change it again.
        
         | ZiiS wrote:
         | Lxd as a whole is certaily now only available under the AGPLv3
         | license. Some parts are also available under the Apache 2.0
         | license. And Canonical are bound by that agreement to tell you
         | such; but it is still factual to say you have to agree to the
         | AGPLv3 to distribute it.
        
       | JonChesterfield wrote:
       | Linux containers project. Foreshadowing of this move at
       | https://linuxcontainers.org/lxd/
        
       | photonbeam wrote:
       | Time to support the fork
        
       | jraph wrote:
       | Is this FUD? [edit: it's not, see the replies - I kept my
       | original comment below because that's what people answered to,
       | but I no longer agree with it]
       | 
       | ---
       | 
       | The linked announcement says
       | 
       | > Going forward, any contribution to LXD will be made under
       | AGPLv3 by default. _The author of a change remains the copyright
       | holder of their code (no copyright assignment)._
       | 
       | Emphasis mine. No copyright assignment.
       | 
       | So, Canonical now contributes in AGPLv3. The project is now
       | AGPLv3 as well, with some parts in Apache 2. Contributors may
       | contribute in Apache 2 if they wish but probably won't bother.
       | They still own their code.
       | 
       | The author is pissed off because he can't build custom versions
       | without redistributing the modifications and can't sell services
       | to companies afraid of the AGPL anymore.
        
         | ropyeett wrote:
         | https://ubuntu.com/legal/contributors/agreement for the
         | details.
         | 
         | In short, you don't lose your own copyright but you grant them
         | a license to do whatever they want including re-license as they
         | wish without having to ever consult you, allowing for your code
         | to be used within their closed source projects under any
         | license they wish.
        
           | jraph wrote:
           | Ah, right, it's not a copyright assignment, but there is a
           | CLA. Confused the two concepts, rookie mistake. So yeah, not
           | good. I will edit my comment. I would even say that not
           | mentioning the CLA and mentioning the absence of copyright
           | assignment in the announcement is quite dishonest.
        
         | xoa wrote:
         | Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the post also links the
         | "add Canonical CLA check #12665" [0], and my understanding is
         | that "retain copyright" here is like a typical forum agreement
         | where you going forward must agree to a perpetual worldwide
         | unlimited license to Canonical that they can use as they please
         | per [1]:
         | 
         | > _In effect, you're giving us a licence, but you still own the
         | copyright -- so you retain the right to modify your code and
         | use it in other projects._
         | 
         | You explicitly do retain ownership, so you can then take that
         | same code and contribute it elsewhere under any license you
         | wish. The same author could contribute the same patch to both
         | the LXD and the Incus fork. But some might object to being
         | required to allow Canonical to specially license as they want.
         | 
         | So your characterization seems unfair, and then gets kind of
         | nasty at the end:
         | 
         | > _The author is pissed off because he can 't build custom
         | versions without redistributing the modifications_
         | 
         | Incus is a full fork, and Canonical has apparently been taking
         | changes back from it as well as is often the case with such
         | forks where both sides get value from each other. It's
         | perfectly understandable for some folks to be bummed if that's
         | no longer the case, and there is nothing evil about the Apache2
         | license. There's plenty of history that in OSS going back to
         | the beginning, no need for insinuations or attacks. Shouldn't
         | throw around "FUD" at core authors just because they're a touch
         | blindsided.
         | 
         | ----
         | 
         | 0:
         | https://github.com/canonical/lxd/pull/12665/commits/eb5c773d...
         | 
         | 1: https://ubuntu.com/legal/contributors
        
           | jraph wrote:
           | Yep, you are right. See the followups. My characterization
           | was indeed unfair. I confused copyright assignment and CLA,
           | and understood "no copyright assignment" as "no CLA", which
           | is of course wrong.
           | 
           | And for me this totally reverse the situation, AGPL + CLA
           | means "We can make it proprietary tomorrow, and only we can
           | do it".
        
       | shp0ngle wrote:
       | "As a result, Canonical cannot release LXD under the AGPLv3
       | license and likely never will be able to. LXD is now under a
       | weird mix of Apache2 and AGPLv3 with no clear metadata indicating
       | what file or what part of each file is under one license or the
       | other."
       | 
       | IANAL but that's not true? You can take Apache2 and relicense it
       | under AGPL? You can take "less copyleft" license and make it
       | "more copyleft".
       | 
       | https://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.en.html#apache2
       | 
       | It's entirely kosher in my opinion, and the entire thing agpl,
       | with no "weird mix" or whatever
        
         | ropyeett wrote:
         | They can freely include Apache2 licensed code in an AGPLv3
         | project without having to re-license the entire project under
         | Apache2 as it's not a copyleft license. However this doesn't
         | make the code they included AGPLv3, that code remains Apache2
         | and must be declared as such.
        
         | jraph wrote:
         | > You can take "less copyleft" license and make it "more
         | copyleft".
         | 
         | Only if licenses are compatible. But Apache 2 is AGPL-
         | compatible so
         | 
         | > It's entirely kosher in my opinion
         | 
         | Yes, I think so too.
         | 
         | However, they need to make it clear which parts are under
         | Apache 2.
        
         | shp0ngle wrote:
         | what IS weird though is the go exosystem thing.
         | 
         | in go ecosystem, copyleft is very much not the norm.
         | 
         | People might not realise that by just adding copyleft
         | dependency to go.mod, the entire project becomes effectively
         | agpl as it has the code built-in.
        
           | jorams wrote:
           | If you add a dependency without understanding the license
           | that dependency is released under, you should stop doing
           | that. That counts for every license, and particularly if
           | there is _no_ license.
        
       | kragen wrote:
       | the main reason there's a version 2 of the apache license is to
       | ensure that it's clearly legal to incorporate apache-licensed
       | code into gpled systems such as this new version of lxd
       | 
       | it is correct that the ubuntu company cannot prohibit people from
       | copying and modifying stephane's code, or indeed the entire
       | previous version of lxd, under the terms of the apache license.
       | but they can certainly keep using his code in new versions of lxd
       | under agpl
       | 
       | in fact, apple can use stephane's code in a proprietary lxd
       | derivative if they want to. that's what the apache license is
       | designed to permit
       | 
       | if you want to prevent people from using your code in a more-
       | restrictively-licensed fashion, don't use the apache or other
       | bsd-like licenses; use a copyleft license like the agpl. and
       | don't sign a cla
        
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       (page generated 2023-12-12 23:00 UTC)