[HN Gopher] Tacit Knowledge Is Dangerous
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Tacit Knowledge Is Dangerous
        
       Author : Wingy
       Score  : 109 points
       Date   : 2023-12-12 16:17 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (er4hn.info)
 (TXT) w3m dump (er4hn.info)
        
       | vt100 wrote:
       | Does this mean tacit knowledge only exists within in-person
       | teams? So projects like the Linux kernel don't have any tacit
       | knowledge?
        
       | MarkusQ wrote:
       | This looks like a really good use case for LLMs. When you're
       | small and starting out in person, record everything the dev team
       | does -- meetings, whiteboads, pairing sessions, etc. (yeah,
       | creepy, but I'm in brainstorming mode) and then as you start to
       | scale beyond the ability to "ask someone who knows" trail up an
       | LLM to serve as the 24x7 lore master.
        
         | haltist wrote:
         | This is very much like my panoptic computronium cathedral(tm).
         | I only need $80B to build it to achieve AGI. The AGI requires
         | 24/7 surveillance for making optimal decisions because it needs
         | access to as much information as possible. The second stage
         | will require worshipers to ingest nanosensors so that even
         | their bowel movements can be tracked and analyzed by the AGI.
         | This is all for the benefit of those who are under constant
         | surveillance in the cathedral.
        
           | peteradio wrote:
           | Surely I wouldn't need to ingest anything to monitor my
           | bowels, mightnt I simply insert a device up my ass?
        
             | haltist wrote:
             | Intriguing possibility.
        
             | thfuran wrote:
             | It's more robust to have multiple modalities, so you really
             | ought to do both.
        
         | pavel_lishin wrote:
         | A loremaster who will lie when they don't know the answer
         | instead of saying, "I don't know".
        
           | ycombinete wrote:
           | At which point it becomes the Dungeon Master
        
             | pavel_lishin wrote:
             | Funny joke and not inaccurate, but as a regular Dungeon
             | Master, there have _definitely_ been times where I 'll say
             | I don't know! For example:
             | 
             | - "Sorry, I'm not sure right now how that class feature
             | would work in this situation. For now, let's assume it
             | works like X so we don't have to bog down the session to
             | google the answers or scour the books, and I'll take the
             | time to look it up later and make sure we do the correct
             | thing going forward."
             | 
             | - "You know what, I actually don't know what happens in
             | this kingdom if the king is incapacitated, but still alive,
             | I didn't think to prepare for that scenario! Um, roll me a
             | history check, and if you get a 15 or higher, then you'll
             | have heard of this happening before, and _you_ tell us what
             | happens! "
             | 
             | - "Ok friends, I didn't expect you to just go north into
             | the woods and build a raft to cross the river. I literally
             | have nothing prepared for this scenario, so instead of me
             | making up something bad, let's call the session for now,
             | and I'll prepare something that I know will be fun for next
             | time."
        
         | DaveSchmindel wrote:
         | Ah, nice, like feeding a custom GPT everything that goes on at
         | the company. That seems dangerous to me, and not in the typical
         | LLM weariness way.
         | 
         | Meetings can be messy, full of ambiguity, and "unsolved" at
         | then end. If you feed a number of these experiences into an
         | LLM, would its knowledge base be _that great_ at helping teach
         | somebody about the company holding said meetings?
         | 
         | I'd argue that in order for your LLM suggestion to be
         | effective, the input to it would need to be human-written
         | content. I.E: the knowledge that the OP is discussing. In that
         | case, the human effort is still required up front.
        
           | FeepingCreature wrote:
           | It would be interesting to see if you could train a LLM,
           | given "<A> The foo is definitely xyfied" to exclusively
           | answer "Well, at least two months ago, A thought that the foo
           | was xyfied" rather than opine about foo directly.
        
       | jmfldn wrote:
       | Perhaps such products are in the works, but I would love a
       | private company LLM that slurps all messages, docs, meetings, and
       | becomes an oracle that can be relied upon. Perhaps it could even
       | infer tacit knowledge even when it's not explicit in any docs,
       | since it could abstract principles and concepts from the maze of
       | data.
        
         | ericbarrett wrote:
         | Such an oracle would be a devastating thing to lose to
         | industrial espionage.
        
           | jmfldn wrote:
           | Indeed it would. But then the source training data would be
           | bad to lose too. That already exists. I understand it would
           | be a higher level of damage to lose the model of course, but
           | the benefits outweigh the risks, and these could be managed
           | via a very security-hardened product.
        
             | ericbarrett wrote:
             | I think being able to steal a language model that can
             | instruct you on things like the notes of every meeting,
             | employee relationships, back-channel drama, security
             | discussions, etc. _and_ how these things relate to
             | corporate and technical assets, all contained in a single
             | artifact /tarball, really ups the ante for what kind of
             | "security hardening" you'd need for this.
             | 
             | Even exfiltration of API access for a few well-prompted
             | queries could be really bad.
        
               | jmfldn wrote:
               | Yep for sure. Loads to consider here! My initial comment
               | was just a brainstorm /bluesky thinking kind of idea.
               | Clearly the implications are incredibly deep for
               | security, data retention and a host of other concerns.
        
             | plugin-baby wrote:
             | Presumably threat actors can already feed stolen document
             | dumps to LLMs to quickly find interesting data.
        
               | ericbarrett wrote:
               | OP mentioned meeting notes (like otter.ai) and other
               | ephemera. I think that really changes the risk profile.
        
         | haswell wrote:
         | As someone who has spent far too much time diving into old
         | Slack threads to unearth what happened in the past, I can see
         | incredible value in a capability like this.
         | 
         | On the other hand, I think many companies would hesitate to
         | create lasting records of written communications that go beyond
         | the company's retention policy.
         | 
         | While it'd be extremely useful, I think it would also increase
         | potential liability that is currently managed by purge
         | policies.
        
           | jmfldn wrote:
           | An excellent point around data retention and training data.
           | It's not like you can scrub out bits of the neural network
           | weights. I guess such a product would have to factor this in.
        
             | OJFord wrote:
             | You kind of can right, isn't that essentially fine-tuning
             | or reinforcement learning? I.e. if you told it to 'forget
             | about the July 2019 fraud we did' to adjust responses going
             | forwards accordingly?
             | 
             | Granted you'd have to test it without recording that, and
             | you'd never really know for sure if you'd fully scrubbed
             | it, only that you hadn't found a trace of it with your
             | subsequent queries. ...now that I say that I'm sure there's
             | a film about roughly this, delving into an AI trying to
             | retrieve something hidden or something? The Wargames sequel
             | perhaps?
        
               | jmfldn wrote:
               | Perhaps? I'm an LLM / NN layperson so I know basically
               | zero. In my mind, the data is all smashed into a trillion
               | numbers so there's no notion way of removing it as such.
               | 
               | Your point about fine-tuning it out is interesting
               | though. As you say though, you'd have to be really sure
               | you'd really erased it or made it "unreachable" .
        
         | pavel_lishin wrote:
         | An oracle that doesn't tell you when it doesn't know something,
         | and lies or hallucinates answers instead?
        
           | jmfldn wrote:
           | Ha yes! We're not there yet with this tech, that's for sure.
        
         | DaveSchmindel wrote:
         | Zoom offers this today! I think Zoom + a custom GPT could do
         | the trick.
        
       | phkahler wrote:
       | Sometimes it's best to get answers from the horses mouth -
       | meaning the resident expert. This is ideally the person who
       | created a thing, but can also be the person currently
       | responsible. If no such person even exists for critical
       | infrastructure, your company is IMO in trouble.
       | 
       | Yes, documentation is important and should be kept up to date.
       | People should consult documentation, and update it if it turn out
       | to be old. But real, up to date, or deep understanding does not
       | exist outside of human brains.
        
       | ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
       | Well, as in all of these absolutist black/white, binary
       | statements, "it depends."
       | 
       | In my experience, tribal knowledge, which also includes cultural
       | inculcation, can be the difference between success and failure.
       | Sometimes, on the success side, and, sometimes, on the failure
       | side.
       | 
       | The main thing about "tribal knowledge," is that it relies on
       | long-term association/employment, and that is not something we
       | see much of, these days.
        
         | botalert wrote:
         | Come now Chris, you know articles like these are cat nip for
         | the HN circlejerk. Put up a straw man and then beat it down
         | over and over again.
         | 
         | PS. I loved the page you put up of your dad a few days ago and
         | mentioned in the thread about diplomacy. Very interesting
         | person.
        
       | Swizec wrote:
       | > Tacit knowledge, often called "tribal knowledge" in tech, is
       | prevalent in this industry.
       | 
       | Tacit knowledge is not the same as tribal knowledge. Tribal
       | knowledge is undocumented stuff. Tacit knowledge is about things
       | that cannot be learned from documentation.
       | 
       | Riding a bike is an example of tacit knowledge. No amount of
       | reading about the theory of riding a bike will teach you how to
       | ride a bike. You have to hop on the bike and fail a few times
       | until you figure it out.
       | 
       | In software engineering, tacit knowledge are things like "How to
       | factor a system so 50 engineers can work together without
       | stepping on each other's toes" and "How to structure your files
       | to naturally reduce architectural complexity" and "How do you
       | write a useful test that isn't just writing tests for the sake of
       | tests". You can read about these things all you want, but you can
       | only learn by experience. You have to get it wrong a bunch of
       | times, see how it was wrong, and then you eventually start doing
       | it less wrong.
       | 
       | Learning by example also works to speed up the process.
       | 
       | But that's not the same as undocumented.
        
         | travisjungroth wrote:
         | I wrote a very similar comment and you beat me to it by one
         | minute! Deleted and reposted below for compactness.
         | 
         | Their usage of "tacit knowledge" is different from the most
         | common usage. Tacit knowledge [?] tribal knowledge. Tacit
         | knowledge isn't knowledge that no one has bothered to write
         | down. It's knowledge that is inherently difficult to write
         | down. Riding a bike is tacit knowledge. Knowing when a class is
         | doing "too much" is tacit knowledge. Knowing that the
         | _internal_ account must be created before the _external_
         | account is not, but it's the sort of thing that they're talking
         | about.
         | 
         | I wouldn't make such a big deal about semantics but it's the
         | title and the first few sentences of the blog post. I expected
         | something very different than "tribal knowledge is bad".
        
           | er4hn wrote:
           | Thanks for the comments everyone. You're not the first ones
           | to give me feedback about co-inflating the two. In my mind
           | saying that something is "hard to" write down is still pretty
           | similar to saying it is not written down.
           | 
           | For one, if you say it's hard to write something down, you're
           | setting yourself up for a scenario where judging outcomes
           | based on that lack of written down knowledge is going to be
           | painful. For example: "It's hard to describe how to write
           | good tests, so we didn't write it down. But we also want our
           | tests to be more reliable." How do you solve the two without
           | writing down some way to learn how to be better at tests?
           | 
           | Likewise, if you want to learn how to ride a bike, how do you
           | get started? Back in the pre-covid days you could do a lot of
           | experimentation and learning from others in person, but that
           | doesn't scale as well in the post-covid, remote and global,
           | workplace. That's one of the core concepts I was trying to
           | capture.
        
             | travisjungroth wrote:
             | Being pretty blunt here. I have a hard time taking your
             | suggestions on documentation seriously when you're
             | redefining a well established term.
             | 
             | "Tacit knowing" was introduced by Michael Polanyi in 1958.
             | Its meaning has generally held in modern usage.
             | 
             | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacit_knowledge
             | 
             | There's also a meaningful critique here that documentation
             | is _not_ a solution to tacit knowledge sharing. It doesn't
             | work. To answer your bike question, you learn a bike by
             | riding it. There's skill progressions and tips and mental
             | models to share, but you absolutely can't learn to ride a
             | bike by reading docs.
             | 
             | There are skills that are only learned through experience
             | and mentorship. People try otherwise and it usually fails.
             | Do you have evidence otherwise? Do you have a case where
             | you were able to pass tacit knowledge efficiently to a
             | large group of people through docs?
        
       | datadrivenangel wrote:
       | Scaling organizations requires work organizing the information
       | about how things work. Tacit knowledge allows you to get stuff
       | done with small groups without having to pay the extra cost of
       | investing in organization.
        
       | tikhonj wrote:
       | Tacit knowledge is inevitable... but it's also different from
       | what this article is about. Tacit knowledge is the kind of
       | knowledge (and skill!) that cannot be fully explained or taught
       | in words--think mechanical skills you can only pick up through
       | physical practice or very context-specific expertise you only get
       | through experience. In programming _good taste_ is crucial and
       | entirely tacit: we can _try_ to distill taste into words and
       | write books about it, but it will never be enough.
       | 
       | Tacit knowledge is not the same as explicit knowledge that just
       | happens to not be documented. Tacit knowledge is not documented
       | because it is undocumentable. You cannot avoid tacit knowledge.
       | Human language fundamentally cannot express all the knowledge
       | that experts develop through years of practice and experience.
       | Even if an expert can express their experience, there are simply
       | ideas and skills that people cannot learn exclusively from words.
       | 
       | This is an important distinction. Trying to eliminate
       | undocumented explicit knowledge is useful for teams. Trying to
       | eliminate tacit knowledge is disastrous. I've seen attempts to
       | make tacit knowledge legible to management--it is one of the most
       | direct ways to sabotage your own experts because experts
       | fundamentally _cannot_ make _all_ their knowledge explicit.
       | Expertise _is_ tacit knowledge and tacit knowledge _is_
       | expertise.
       | 
       | People generally understand that design by committee or design by
       | regulation has awful results; one of the main reasons for this is
       | that committees require decisions to be fully explicit and
       | explainable--which hamstrings creative problem-solving and pushes
       | for poor design decisions. Exclusively explicit processes get you
       | lowest-common-denominator results: not the lowest common
       | denominator of the expertise present, but the lowest common
       | denominator of _what people can explicitly communicate and
       | understand_ , which is even lower! If you don't let experts _be
       | experts_ , you won't get expert-level work.
        
         | fidotron wrote:
         | This.
         | 
         | This article confuses tacit knowledge for the phenomenon most
         | eloquently described by a former (superb) sysadmin colleague
         | "documentation is the enemy of job security".
        
           | pheres wrote:
           | One should not look to be unreplaceable, but rather the
           | opposite.
           | 
           | Only when you become replaceable at a certain task (or able
           | to delegate it) you can progress to do new (more interesting)
           | things.
        
             | geodel wrote:
             | It could go either way. Some places will like and promote
             | one to do different/more interesting things. Other places
             | will eliminate the position with _k, thx, bye!_ Moreover
             | usually people have only so much energy to be always
             | concerned with job  / career growth/ changes etc. They are
             | fine their little pieces of knowledge that make them useful
             | at work in a unique way.
        
           | justin_oaks wrote:
           | Is this true, though? After seeing enough bone-headed
           | management decisions, I wonder if the bosses even know or
           | care about documentation when making decisions to fire
           | someone.
           | 
           | From my point of view, the lack of documentation might be a
           | reason to fire someone.
        
         | peteradio wrote:
         | Was just arguing with my father whether the difficulty in
         | transplanting TSMC was due to tacit knowledge or missing
         | documentation. I argued that an automated process failing to
         | run would inherently be missing documentation but I'm curious
         | to see what kind of tacit information would be involved here.
        
         | nonrandomstring wrote:
         | Documentation makes the world go round. Definitely appropriate
         | for high-risk must-deliver projects, but not in all contexts.
         | Is it maybe a business fantasy that we can simply juice the
         | talent of a team and bottle it?
         | 
         | Where does this idea come from other than good engineering
         | practice?
         | 
         | If you work with smart, talented people in a fast moving world
         | it seems, as you say, inevitable that you face the "problem" of
         | tacit knowledge and manage it positively.
         | 
         | In Designing Sound (and my lectures on sound design) I
         | researched and wrote about this as "ineffable knowledge". My
         | observation in arts and design through the 90s and early 00s
         | was that we regularly get people who are x100 superstars but
         | they're unable to articulate exactly how they do things and
         | pass that knowledge to others (I was researching this from a
         | UI/UX point of view). That is /talent/ and it's why we value
         | people as more than just interchangeable cogs. Much process
         | knowledge, and crucially problem-solving knowledge in any
         | project will reside in the heads of individuals.
         | 
         | (TBF I think the article is more about tacit cultural knowledge
         | within the team as a whole)
         | 
         | Sure if we lose key individuals the project is threatened, but
         | on the other hand trying to get them to do a full knowledge
         | dump, such that any replacement would be frictionless, is a
         | fools errand.
         | 
         | Treating "information" that way and ignoring people is one-
         | dimensional thinking.
         | 
         | So I don't think it's helpful to talk about tacit knowledge
         | itself as "dangerous". What is more dangerous is composing
         | mediocre teams only from replaceable workers and spending too
         | much of their time on documenting as a safety net when they
         | should be pushing forward. Meanwhile a danger is in treating
         | valuable people so badly their continuity is not assured. Far
         | fewer people fall under the proverbial bus than simply leave
         | for better jobs.
         | 
         | So we could take the view that over-cautious self-reporting and
         | documenting is a sign of, and attempt to manage, low commitment
         | business attitudes, poor wages, conditions and low job-
         | security.
        
           | pixl97 wrote:
           | Documentation is one of those things that once there's a lot
           | of it, it's its own product.
           | 
           | First, you have to have someone constantly making sure it's
           | up to date in the case of software. Really easy for it to go
           | stale and just be wrong, and possibly actively harmful.
           | 
           | But then telling someone "RTFM" has a different quality if
           | you're talking about 50 pages or 50,000 pages. Cool, I'll get
           | back to you in a month.
        
         | nullhole wrote:
         | It's worth noting a tautology: tacit knowledge is undocmented
         | because it is undocumentable.
         | 
         | The key insight (which I agree with!) is that some kinds of
         | knowledge are undocumentable. The challenge - at least for
         | those charged with ensuring processes are documented - is
         | deciding what is and what isn't documentable.
        
           | betenoire wrote:
           | I have a lot of habits because of lessons I've learned. There
           | are 100 ways to do it, I chose 1. Documenting the 99 is
           | unreasonable, but that's tacit knowledge, isn't it? I will
           | document why I didn't choose the most obvious one, though.
        
           | tikhonj wrote:
           | It's a definition. I suppose definitions are tautologies by
           | definition though :)
           | 
           | And yeah, the real insight is not the definition but the fact
           | that tacit knowledge is inevitable and important, and that
           | trying to eliminate it will be actively counterproductive.
        
         | jessriedel wrote:
         | Thanks, this is the exactly correct critique of the article.
         | 
         | I'll just add that the author did not seriously grapple with
         | the fact that leaving at least _some_ explicit knowledge
         | undocumented is inevitable. There is no sharp divide between
         | "explicit knowledge every programmer should know" and "explicit
         | knowledge that only makes sense in our organization".
         | Documenting is costly to produce, and documentation is costly
         | to maintain even after it is produced. (If nothing else, more
         | documentation makes it harder to search.) This holds even if
         | it's simultaneously true that large organizations usually
         | document insufficiently because of laziness and bad incentives.
        
           | er4hn wrote:
           | I agree that some is inevitable, but as that amount increases
           | it will provide a drag in what the organization is able to
           | accomplish. This becomes even worse as an organization is
           | remote locally and globally spread out.
        
             | k_process wrote:
             | The challenges with the post's suggestion are (1) it
             | accounts only for the time of the person needing
             | information, not the one providing it, and (2) a specific
             | question takes a small time to answer, but pre-documenting
             | everything that is needed to answer any question takes
             | orders of magnitude more time.
             | 
             | Some of this is outlined in Snowden's (not that Snowden)
             | Laws of Knowledge Management.
             | 
             | http://www.gurteen.com/gurteen/gurteen.nsf/id/km-seven-
             | princ...
             | 
             | These two are especially relevant:
             | 
             | 2. We only know what we know when we need to know it.
             | 
             | 7. We always know more than we can say, and we always say
             | more than we can write down.
        
         | chongli wrote:
         | I think almost all knowledge is tacit knowledge. Even stuff
         | that would seem obviously explicit like mathematics and
         | language.
         | 
         | In my experience tutoring high school students, I've
         | encountered plenty of students who struggle with spelling,
         | grammar, or mathematical mistakes and no matter how many times
         | I correct them it doesn't stick. Then I see other students who
         | pick these things up so quickly without correction.
         | 
         | Mathematics, especially, seems to have a strong tacit
         | component. If all you do is read the textbook you're going to
         | bomb the exam. You need to practice a lot to develop your
         | mathematical intuition.
        
           | panarky wrote:
           | _> > Tacit knowledge is not documented because it is
           | undocumentable
           | 
           | > students who struggle with spelling_
           | 
           | The ability to spell correctly is not tacit knowledge.
           | 
           |  _> > Tacit knowledge is not documented because it is
           | undocumentable_
           | 
           | Spelling is thoroughly documented.
        
             | mnsc wrote:
             | It is thoroughly documented, yet alot of people make
             | spelling mistakes and we sometime make up animals to mock
             | people who spell stuff "as it sounds in their heads". And
             | then there's people who are good spellers, whomst wouldn't
             | blink twice or use Google when asked to spell "accommodate"
             | or "nausaeus". Do you think that these mega spellers can
             | document _how_ they spell correctly all the time? Or do you
             | think they have some good intuition/tacit knowledge?
             | 
             | English is my second language so I tried to make some funny
             | mistakes above due to the topic, but there might also be
             | some unwanted/undocumented ones thrown in for good measure.
        
               | aleph_minus_one wrote:
               | > Do you think that these mega spellers can document
               | _how_ they spell correctly all the time?
               | 
               | At least in my native language, I can typically explain
               | the rules why a word is spelled the way it is. The simple
               | reason for this is that I am interested in the structure
               | of languages. The typical reason that I experience among
               | other people why they spell words wrong is that they are
               | less interested in this topic.
        
               | chongli wrote:
               | There are rules for English spelling. They're just
               | extremely complicated because English, in addition to all
               | its Anglo-Saxon native words, has many loanwords from
               | other languages: Norman French, Latin, Greek, German, and
               | many more. To spell a word correctly it really helps to
               | be able to identify its language of origin. If you watch
               | the Scripps national spelling bee, you'll regularly see
               | the spellers asking about this information.
               | 
               | Of course, tons of everyday great spellers don't know
               | about any of this stuff explicitly. They just seem to
               | tacitly have a "feel" for the language of origin and are
               | thus able to spell many words when first hearing them.
        
               | nyrikki wrote:
               | Lots of words have odd spelling due to false etymologies.
               | 
               | Scissors, Island, Ache, and Could; were all from old
               | English with random letters added by people in the 15th
               | century who mistakenly thought they were from Latin.
               | 
               | Etymology is hard, and most textbook writers and teachers
               | who invented the rules weren't qualified to actually find
               | the true origin.
               | 
               | English accumulated a multitude of inconsistent spelling
               | patterns, some from loan words, some from shift how words
               | pronounced from vowel shifts, yod-dropping, and random
               | reform attempts which weren't often based on rigourous
               | evidence of origin.
               | 
               | It was an etymological fallacy that drove those spelling
               | reforms to 'correct' the spelling anyway.
               | 
               | There is no real value in keeping the k in knife when the
               | sound was dropped as an example.
        
               | chongli wrote:
               | _Lots of words have odd spelling due to false
               | etymologies._
               | 
               | That's true as well.
               | 
               |  _It was an etymological fallacy that drove those
               | spelling reforms to 'correct' the spelling anyway._
               | 
               |  _There is no real value in keeping the k in knife when
               | the sound was dropped as an example._
               | 
               | To me, these two statements suggest opposite
               | recommendations. The first tells us that we should be
               | cautious of prescriptive changes to spelling. The second
               | that we should go ahead and drop the k in knife (and
               | presumably change the spelling on all other words to be
               | more phonetic).
               | 
               | I am inclined to be conservative here [1]. I found Mark
               | Twain's satirical piece on the issue [2] rather
               | persuasive. Like it or not, those old prescriptivists'
               | changes have become part of the etymology. Making further
               | changes for the sake of easier spelling would only
               | complicate the etymology even further, and make it even
               | harder for future English-speakers to read the texts of
               | today.
               | 
               | [1] https://xkcd.com/927/
               | 
               | [2] https://faculty.georgetown.edu/jod/texts/twain.html
        
             | nyrikki wrote:
             | Like "i" before "e", except after "c"?
             | 
             | While "i" does come before "e" nearly 75% of the time--even
             | after "c" it is a probabilistic rule and not particularly
             | useful.
             | 
             | So not so well documented.
             | 
             | Or how about the false rules that people tried to copy from
             | Latin to English that don't really apply like double
             | negatives or split infinitives.
             | 
             | Shakespeare loses most of its humor in modern edited
             | versions, he used spelling and homonyms artfully when he
             | cared at all. Look at the first folio version if you
             | haven't.
             | 
             | Standard spelling is useful, but neither fully documented
             | nor close to logical.
             | 
             | I think you will find that actual linguistic scholars error
             | twords descriptivism vs prescription.
             | 
             | Only the less informed population of lay people stick to
             | the prescription model as a proxy for intellectual ability.
        
               | nyrikki wrote:
               | Random cite describing the difference:
               | 
               | "Prescriptivism is the term used for approaches to
               | language that set out rules for what is regarded as
               | "good" or "correct" usage. Descriptivism is an evidence-
               | based approach to language that describes, in an
               | objective manner, how language is being used. Most
               | contemporary academic linguists are descriptivists, but
               | prescriptivist approaches abound in schools, style
               | guides, internet comment threads, and parental chidings.
               | This case examines attempts to govern, reform, and/or
               | reimagine English."
               | 
               | https://exhibits.lib.ku.edu/exhibits/show/english-
               | language/g...
        
               | deathanatos wrote:
               | > _So not so well documented._
               | 
               | You're criticizing a rule of thumb, here. Sure, the rule
               | of thumb isn't perfect ... but it also never claimed to
               | be.
               | 
               | But from that, you're drawing the illogical conclusion of
               | "spelling isn't documented", which ... the aforementioned
               | rule has no logical connection to.
               | 
               | Plenty of dictionaries exists, good ones, ones that even
               | document non-standard spellings or local variants.
               | 
               | > _I think you will find that actual linguistic scholars
               | error twords_ (sic) _descriptivism_ (sic) _vs
               | prescription._
               | 
               | I'll highlight the irony, but this is besides the point,
               | but doubly so when _teaching someone how to write_. You
               | _start_ with the prescribed spellings, and once the skill
               | is mastered, or the language evolves, then either they
               | know when to break the rules, or the new spelling is
               | simply trending towards prescribed.
               | 
               | ... it's the same for a lot of pursuits: in dance, we
               | teach footwork first. Later, you learn when to bend the
               | rules, and when to outright break them. I'd say it's the
               | same in music, too.
               | 
               | > _Only the less informed population of lay people stick
               | to the prescription model as a proxy for intellectual
               | ability._
               | 
               | This really isn't what upthread is trying to say, at all.
               | If I had to rephrase it, they're suggesting that, when
               | you teach spelling, some "get it", some don't, even
               | repeatedly, and questioning whether there is some tacit
               | knowledge that the first group has formed that the latter
               | is struggling with.
               | 
               | I taught CS, and I'd say there is a similar pattern
               | amongst students there. Some intuitively seem to get it
               | -- particularly, once given the rules for syntax, ifs,
               | while, etc., how to synthesis new programs to solve
               | until-then unseen problems. Yet other students _struggle_
               | with this. (The closest I 've come is "the former have a
               | decent rule system/model in their heads, and the latter
               | are just trying to bum by on heuristics.)
        
               | Izkata wrote:
               | > Like "i" before "e", except after "c"?
               | 
               | > While "i" does come before "e" nearly 75% of the time--
               | even after "c" it is a probabilistic rule and not
               | particularly useful.
               | 
               | That's only the first part of the rhyme. The second part
               | is "or when sounded like 'a' as in 'neighbor' or
               | 'weigh'", which handles most of those exceptions.
               | 
               | There's even a third part I remember hearing once, but
               | can't remember it now.
               | 
               | Most English spelling/pronunciation rules are never
               | explicitly taught, but they do exist - it's why "ghoti"
               | isn't pronounced the same as "fish", to get that
               | pronunciation you have to break at least two rules.
               | 
               | Years ago I found a page that listed like 40 or so
               | English pronunciation rules that had to do with
               | combinations of characters and where they appeared in
               | words, it was really thorough and I wish I'd kept a link
               | to it.
        
           | quacked wrote:
           | > I've encountered plenty of students who struggle with
           | spelling, grammar, or mathematical mistakes and no matter how
           | many times I correct them it doesn't stick. Then I see other
           | students who pick these things up so quickly without
           | correction.
           | 
           | I often wonder about this. I believe that each person has a
           | certain intellectual threshold beyond which they cannot
           | progress farther in (memory, spatial reasoning, logical
           | reasoning, learning speed, etc.) Logically there are genetic
           | and natural components to this threshold. I also think part
           | of what makes a lot of modern life so disastrously
           | ineffective is the belief by those running society that
           | everyone can reach a similar intellectual level given the
           | right "system".
           | 
           | However, I think modern schooling is so brutally ineffective
           | that barely anyone in school is operating near the real
           | limits of their intellect. What do you think was holding
           | those kids back? Lack of motivation, poor knowledge of
           | fundamentals, or do you think basic high school concepts
           | actually had maxed out their intellect?
        
             | nyrikki wrote:
             | As someone who suffers from dysgraphia, which isn't well
             | understood and commonly missed or completely misunderstood,
             | our teaching methods simply do not translate to effective
             | methods.
             | 
             | In English especially where we have problems with vowel
             | shifts multiple source languages and frankly stupid
             | spelling of some words by ignorant prescriptivist
             | Latinophiles, it is really rote memorization.
             | 
             | Math is like playing the guitar or skiing, it takes
             | practice to be good at.
             | 
             | But if you aren't good at memorization of concepts you
             | don't understand, the typical response is to make people
             | spend more time with memorization.
             | 
             | This simply doesn't work and students start to believe they
             | aren't smart enough and give up, because they aren't
             | offered tools to adapt and it is easier to just be thought
             | of as stupid or slow.
             | 
             | Mathematics, logic, and scientific reasoning are learned
             | skills and while everyone will have ultimate limits to
             | their abilities, they are hard for all humans but in
             | different ways.
             | 
             | But you are right, most this is tactic, people just ignore
             | factors that often aren't even learning disabilities, but
             | are advantages some students have due to their history and
             | exposure.
             | 
             | Moravec's paradox is probably a good analogy, where what we
             | think is easy is only easy due to previous experience.
             | 
             | Many authors like Ernest Hemingway and Agatha Christie were
             | horrible at spelling and grammar but had good editors.
             | 
             | Assuming that being bad at spelling and grammar indicates
             | an 'intellectual threshold' is a dangerous path.
             | 
             | Calculus is a filter class because it is taught in a way
             | that favors rote memorization of unexplained concepts, but
             | introduce some abstract algebra concepts to a student or
             | coworker and many can move forward.
             | 
             | Rote memorization does have value, but equating
             | memorization skills wilh ultimate intellectual ability
             | leads to far lower educational attainment for many people.
             | 
             | Great guitarists and other difficult skills are far less
             | about 'natural abilities' than it is about hard work and
             | being exposed to an environment that does discourage that
             | hard work.
             | 
             | Stem is the same as is creative writing or effective
             | communication.
             | 
             | It is hard for everyone to learn, but people forget how
             | much effort it took.
        
           | athanagor2 wrote:
           | > Mathematics, especially, seems to have a strong tacit
           | component.
           | 
           | It's quantifiers, and bound and free variables.
        
         | CrypticShift wrote:
         | This is so meta. Here we are trying to verbalize our tacit
         | knowledge of "tacit knowledge" :)
         | 
         | While I agree with the distinction you made (Last paragraph is
         | excellent), there is this grey area : Because in the digital
         | era almost everything is recorded (oral meetings/written
         | chitchat...), there is a huge quantity of information that is
         | neither in the "Guts" nor in the "docs". To join others in this
         | thread, I guess LLMs will play a big part in making this grey
         | area usefull and in a certain way bridge the gap (partially)
         | between what is tacit and what is formally documented.
        
           | Lutger wrote:
           | Exactly. However I think its a bit more complicated than a
           | grey area. There is just no hard distinction between tacit
           | and explicit knowledge, even though the distinction is
           | useful.
           | 
           | It is not that any tacit bit of knowledge eludes
           | articulation, it is the whole that is problematic. Nothing is
           | truly undocumentable, but its like the specs for microsoft
           | word: its just so much you already need to be an expert to
           | navigate the whole of it.
           | 
           | Thats the distinction and LLM of course of very good at
           | processing vast amounts of bits and pieces.
        
         | ekidd wrote:
         | > _very context-specific expertise you only get through
         | experience._
         | 
         | When giving advice, I'm often tempted to point to a given
         | situation, and to explain what rule of thumb I used to solve
         | it.
         | 
         | But then I would see a junior programmer applying the rule of
         | thumb in a _completely different_ situation and I 'd want to
         | say, "No, that will end in tears!" And I realized that a lot of
         | my rules of thumb were really dumb when taken out of context.
         | 
         | As far as I can tell, a huge part of expertise is having a
         | large set of mappings like:
         | 
         | - In contexts like "C1", use rule of thumb "R1" or "R8".
         | 
         | It's very tempting to talk about R1, R2, etc. You can write
         | blog posts like, "How R2 will transform your team!"
         | 
         | But a lot of real expertise comes from being able to say, "Oh,
         | this is a combination of C7 and C78, so I should consider rules
         | of thumb R7, R49 and R102. Ah, wait, no, R49 is just gross
         | here."
         | 
         | So I've learned that, when mentoring, I need to spend a lot
         | more time talking about the context before proposing any rules
         | of thumb.
        
           | enasterosophes wrote:
           | This is very insightful, thanks. I'm currently in the middle
           | ground where I still want mentoring from the technical leads
           | on some things, but I also have enough seniority to be
           | mentoring new hires. You've articulated the way I think our
           | tech leads are often not great at explaining themselves,
           | while also giving me something to think about when passing on
           | information to newbies.
        
           | smilliken wrote:
           | My rule of thumb is to hesitate before giving advice if I
           | can't come up with an anecdotal story to support it. Stories
           | are more useful than generalizations because they come with
           | the context, and can be dismissed in different contexts. At
           | risk of presently breaking this rule of thumb, I'll give an
           | example. When I notice code being structured with class
           | inheritance, I'll point out a part of the codebase where I
           | did similar, and how poorly it turned out, which someone can
           | observe for themself. It started out nice, as it usually
           | does, but devolved over time as complexity accumulated in
           | parent classes to handle scenarios in child classes.
        
           | AnimalMuppet wrote:
           | Um, can I retract about the last 15 years of my advice?
        
         | vishnugupta wrote:
         | +1.
         | 
         | This[1] article that was on HN front a few months ago and I
         | could only agree with it.
         | 
         | I've seen teams trying to micro-document their way to
         | inefficiency. Forcing doers to document every darned small
         | thing is the surest way to get them to lose interest. By now
         | I've realised that regardless of documentation it takes around
         | 6 months for a s/w engineer to be fully productive at a new
         | company and start creating value.
         | 
         | [1] https://commoncog.com/tacit-knowledge-is-a-real-thing/
        
       | denial wrote:
       | This is an odd definition for tacit knowledge. My understanding
       | is that it's more caught up in the intuition of concepts/systems
       | that's difficult to codify because it's very contextual. This
       | "tribal knowledge" perspective seems more like processes and
       | facts that aren't documented. Not because of the inherent
       | difficulty but instead because of priorities. Not that there
       | isn't some intersection between the two.
        
       | hoherd wrote:
       | At a previous company where I had a lot of this "tacit
       | knowledge", I had made a policy for myself. Whenever somebody
       | asked me a question over IM or e-mail, I would look in the wiki.
       | If the answer was not in the wiki, I would write a new wiki
       | article or update an existing article with the answer, and I
       | would respond with a link to the article, and a statement like
       | "if this doesn't answer your question let me know what is missing
       | or could be described better." The reasons for this were for me
       | to dump my tribal knowledge out of my brain into something
       | everybody could search and read, and to promote usage of the wiki
       | as a place where people found answers. Unfortunately it did not
       | appear to have another desired effect of getting everybody to
       | contribute content. I think this was probably because people came
       | to see the wiki as a place to find knowledge, not to put
       | knowledge.
        
         | sonicanatidae wrote:
         | How do you keep your wiki from evolving into a kludge of
         | random-ish info?
         | 
         | One example of tacit knowledge is knowing the Dell T420s Tower
         | Servers have very poor cooling for the raid controllers and
         | often, this can cook them over time, requiring replacement or,
         | at least repasting the heatsink.
         | 
         | Now imagine 100s of those little tidbits. Useful, but hard to
         | categorize.
        
           | jsty wrote:
           | Use an internal Q&A / Quora-style tool with good search.
           | Trying to keep little snippets of info like that under useful
           | MECE categories only ever ends in pain & frequent
           | refactoring.
        
           | lucidguppy wrote:
           | I don't want to get too much on the ai hype train - but it
           | seems like this would be perfect for machine learning,
           | trained on the wiki-snippets of the company and emails
           | (initiator would have to set a flag saying this is going to
           | be training data).
        
             | sonicanatidae wrote:
             | That would be a good use of LLM AI, imo. Good idea.
        
             | cratermoon wrote:
             | > machine learning
             | 
             | This is already kind of skewed by hype. It's not possible
             | to teach a transformer architecture LLM the fact "Dell
             | T420s Tower Servers have very poor cooling for the raid
             | controllers". All that can be done is have a corpus of text
             | where the statistically most likely text associated with a
             | prompts about "raid controller cooling Dell T420" includes
             | the text "Dell T420s Tower Servers have very poor cooling
             | for the raid controllers", or some variant of it. But the
             | model doesn't _know_ that fact, or any other fact, so it 's
             | not being taught this knowledge.
        
           | rout39574 wrote:
           | That's what a wiki is good for: collecting snippets of hard
           | to categorize information. If you've got a culture of
           | recording those notes, then you can develop full text search
           | habits.
           | 
           | A kluge of randomish info by people who make occasional
           | attempts to organize and garden... sucks compared to a
           | beautifully manicured knowledge base. But it's fantastic
           | compared to a blank wall and a shrug.
        
             | pixl97 wrote:
             | Even this ends up very messy.
             | 
             | The first problem I commonly see is called "Delores
             | Thesaurus". It turns out people find like 50 different ways
             | to say the same damned thing. Maybe with LLM based
             | sentiment search we don't have to be so exact in how people
             | ask the same question?
             | 
             | Also this information getting stale or out of date commonly
             | leads to people not going back and gardening because of the
             | massive amount of work involved, such as adding versioning
             | when you figure out there are 10 different product
             | behaviors over time.
        
           | williamdclt wrote:
           | Put it in the runbook for the alarm you got when the server
           | failed, or the maintainance guide that your team runs through
           | every month. Or make heatsink repasting a regular documented
           | process, or something similar.
           | 
           | Basically, as Toyota says, build quality _into_ each part of
           | the product rather than layering it on top by documenting
           | discrete pieces of info that an operator has to discover,
           | understand and act upon
        
             | sonicanatidae wrote:
             | I'm a fan of the toyota approach, but sadly, Dell isn't.
             | lol
             | 
             | I'll review the runbooks. We have a number of them, mostly
             | created by me. :)
        
           | j45 wrote:
           | Not OP, but you have to regularly review and adjust the
           | ontology regularly as more articles are added.
           | 
           | In short, the categorization and organization is key, and you
           | have to do it when the number of documents is not only
           | increasing, but different enough.
           | 
           | Sometimes, I just write a longer document and once it's
           | ready, it can be broken into smaller ones. Doing this helps
           | save the organization tremendous amounts of time in not
           | having to re-learn things, or dig it up.
        
             | sonicanatidae wrote:
             | Sure, but this then becomes a fulltime role by itself, once
             | the info grows enough.
             | 
             | I maintain it for my teams, but as things grow, it becomes
             | less manageable, since I'm also a T3 and have technical
             | tasks to address, as well management of the teams.
             | 
             | The good news in all of this, is in less than a decade,
             | it'll all be someone else's headache. ;)
        
           | krisoft wrote:
           | > One example of tacit knowledge is knowing the Dell T420s
           | Tower Servers have very poor cooling for the raid controllers
           | and often, this can cook them over time, requiring
           | replacement or, at least repasting the heatsink.
           | 
           | I don't even think that is tacit knowledge. Tacit knowledge
           | is how do you know when the edge of your chisel is too dull
           | and need re-honing. (It feels off.) Or knowing how much
           | weight transfer you need to safely navigate a given turn with
           | a motorcycle.
           | 
           | Or to grab a more similar example: Tacit knowledge is looking
           | at a computer case you have never seen before and thinking
           | "that doesn't look like enough cooling, we should calculate
           | and check".
        
             | sonicanatidae wrote:
             | This gets muddy real fast.
             | 
             | One could argue that tacit knowledge also applies when it
             | comes to the feel of pulling laptops apart without breaking
             | the tiny little clips. It takes a few before you get the
             | feel for it, because the difference between snapping a tiny
             | little case clip and not snapping it are about 1 psi
             | (borrowing a term) difference..lol
        
             | PH95VuimJjqBqy wrote:
             | it kind of blows me away how many people on these forums
             | don't know what tacit knowledge is.
             | 
             | tacit knowledge is being able to ride a bicycle.
             | 
             | You'll never describe it well enough that a child can hop
             | on the bicycle and ride it the first time.
             | 
             | the knowledge that enables someone to successfully ride a
             | bicycle is tacit knowledge.
        
         | j45 wrote:
         | Another nice hack is to record a video as an answer, and put in
         | the wiki doc, and then email a link to the wiki doc.
         | 
         | The explanation by IM/em can be troublesome because it could be
         | out of date.
         | 
         | Helping your organization be creators is the way to go.
        
           | breischl wrote:
           | I know many people love video, but I personally think this is
           | only slightly better than not recording it anywhere. Video is
           | much harder to search and nearly impossible to skim, so it's
           | difficult to use for anything other than a classroom-style
           | "let's sit down and learn" session.
           | 
           | Most often I'm looking for some particular piece of
           | information. Finding a video that _may_ contain the answer
           | _somewhere_ in the hour (or whatever) of information just
           | means now I have to decide on the likelihood that it'll be
           | worth trying to watch.
           | 
           | Yes, some things are better explained in video format. But
           | not very many, especially in knowledge work.
           | 
           | ETA: Also video is much harder to update as the situation
           | changes. For the most part you just need to re-record the
           | whole thing, which probably isn't going to happen.
        
         | justin_oaks wrote:
         | I often create wiki pages to save myself the work of explaining
         | it multiple times to different people. Ultimately, it's win-
         | win. I don't have to put in more effort to explain something,
         | and the requestor has the necessary information.
         | 
         | If other people don't contribute to the wiki then it's likely
         | that there's nothing incentivizing it. It's not like management
         | is handing out bonuses to people contributing to the wiki.
         | Heck, even my contributions are self-serving.
        
         | citrin_ru wrote:
         | Maintaining wiki requires a lot of time. Even just adding new
         | content is much more work than a reply over IM/email because
         | one needs to find a right place (if stricture is not completely
         | flat), explain the context (which people exchanging messages
         | have but would be missing for someone who would read wiki),
         | organize content so it has some internal structure e. t. c. And
         | there is a bigger problem - wiki to which new pages frequently
         | added typically full of outdated or no longer relevant
         | information. Updating or archiving old wiki pages requires a
         | lot of time too (and this work sometimes can be done only by an
         | author or someone who knows subject equally well).
         | 
         | It is nice to have knowledge documented, but there is a
         | tradeoff between time spend on wiki and time saved thanks to
         | the wiki.
        
       | artemonster wrote:
       | I only once saw proper ,,knowledge" documentation working in a
       | german company which had a strict waterfall methodology. When
       | project started, we spent at least 1/3 of the time writing
       | documentation and specification first, then code. Onboarding was
       | a breeze and when corona hit - nothing has changed, we could
       | operate as usual too. I also had to overtake a domain of another
       | engineer who was leaving, the handover was minimal, as everything
       | was written down.
        
       | matt3210 wrote:
       | I find that "figuring it out on my own" takes a bit longer, but I
       | learn a LOT of answers to alot of other things I didn't know I
       | needed.
       | 
       | "If I walk into a bookstore and you help me find the book I'm
       | looking for, then You've robbed me of the opportunity to find all
       | the books I wasn't looking for" -- paraphrasing Neil Tyson
        
       | antoineMoPa wrote:
       | One easy and very useful habit we have where I work is to post
       | all questions (even the stupidest questions) in public slack
       | channels. That's also where most technical conversations happen.
       | This helps us to hide less information in private chats.
        
       | bookofjoe wrote:
       | It can also be lucrative: witness Joe Flacco, who three weeks ago
       | was sitting on his couch watching games on TV, now with a chance
       | to lead the Cleveland Browns to the playoffs.
        
       | cloogshicer wrote:
       | Tacit knowledge is inevitable. Some people, like Turing Award
       | winner Peter Naur, claim that the knowledge in the programmer's
       | head is actually the main "product" of programming. He calls this
       | "Theory Building". There's an excellent paper on it, but it's
       | pretty verbose, here's [1] a summary with some additional case
       | studies.
       | 
       | [1] https://hiringengineersbook.com/post/autonomy/
        
       | rodrigosetti wrote:
       | No knowledge can be fully explained in words
        
       | wslh wrote:
       | I think it is good to start by defining the concept because I
       | first hear about "tacit knowledge" in the context of knowledge
       | management [1]. In that context tacit knowledge is inherent to
       | social systems. It is something that exists and could not be
       | prevented.
       | 
       | At the end what the author should criticize is not the tacit
       | knowledge but how the organization manages the knowledge. And
       | that is, knowledge management.
       | 
       | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knowledge_management
        
       | austin-cheney wrote:
       | The US Army has formal training about this and provides an
       | Advanced Skill Identifier (ASI) to those training to practice it.
       | See:
       | 
       | * Techniques for Effective Knowledge Management, ATP 6-01.1,
       | https://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/DR_pubs/DR_a/pdf/web/atp6_01...
       | 
       | The Army technique follows the DIKW model.
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIKW_pyramid
       | 
       | When I did that job as NCOIC for a major sustainment command in
       | Afghanistan I learned how to mix documentation, automation, and
       | empathy to create a shared vision amongst the 24 shops that
       | comprised the unit. I never would have matured into this writing
       | corporate software.
       | 
       | Since being laid off this year I am choosing to regress and
       | aggressively embrace tacit knowledge. In the past I used to
       | publish things I had learned to GitHub and many people found
       | those writing extremely beneficial. As a JavaScript developer,
       | however, I have finally been beaten into submission by the
       | neglectful immaturity of my profession and so many of my peers.
       | 
       | I have grown tired of debasing myself when so many people are
       | hostile to any concepts of helpful guidance. The name of the game
       | is attain employment by writing the same framework glue over and
       | over thereby pandering to the desires of the least competent and
       | least employable of the workforce. Any deviation is met with
       | hostility first and possibly curiosity later. As a result I
       | abandoned that line of work until I found a career change and now
       | keep my learning about automation, performance, and architecture
       | to myself.
        
       | PakG1 wrote:
       | Per other comments here, this is not what tacit knowledge is.
       | There is an entire body of research devoted to understanding
       | tacit knowledge. Anyone interested in tacit knowledge can read
       | the works of those who have spent years researching the topic.
       | Here are some sample papers. Nonaka is perhaps the most well-
       | known one in this space.
       | 
       | Hadjimichael, D., and Tsoukas, H. 2019. "Toward a Better
       | Understanding of Tacit Knowledge in Organizations: Taking Stock
       | and Moving Forward," Academy of Management Annals (13:2), pp.
       | 672-703. (https://doi.org/10.5465/annals.2017.0084).
       | 
       | Huang, X., Hsieh, J. P.-A., and He, W. 2014. "Expertise
       | Dissimilarity and Creativity: The Contingent Roles of Tacit and
       | Explicit Knowledge Sharing," Journal of Applied Psychology
       | (99:5), pp. 816-830.
       | 
       | Nonaka, I., and Von Krogh, G. 2009. "Perspective--Tacit Knowledge
       | and Knowledge Conversion: Controversy and Advancement in
       | Organizational Knowledge Creation Theory," Organization Science
       | (20:3), pp. 635-652. (https://doi.org/10.1287/orsc.1080.0412).
       | 
       | Nonaka, I. 1994. "A Dynamic Theory of Organizational Knowledge
       | Creation," Organization Science (5:1), pp. 14-37.
        
         | er4hn wrote:
         | Thanks I appreciate this. I know I co-inflated different
         | concepts. I should update my blog post once the comments here
         | dry up and I can go through them.
        
       | vasco wrote:
       | Public everything inside the company. No private rooms. Redirect
       | questions in dms to rooms. Public docs for everything. Everyone
       | with full access to Google drive.
       | 
       | Now your "question to the other side of the world" becomes a
       | slack search, or a docs search, and is even better than in
       | person.
        
       | BiteCode_dev wrote:
       | Even if you could express all tacit knowledge, which yoy can't
       | because you may not know you hold it or it's hollistic, sharing
       | it takes and resources.
       | 
       | And no projects have an infinite amount of those, so choices are
       | made.
        
       | mmcgaha wrote:
       | I used to work with a smart guy who had what I think is the real
       | answer to this problem. All documentation is maintained by the
       | newest member of the team. The new guys job is to solve all of
       | his issues with the documentation and if he has to ask someone
       | then his job is to update the documentation.
        
       | surgical_fire wrote:
       | > You may really need to know about the whizbang service, but
       | it's been 4 years since anyone last worked on it and no-one
       | remembers how it works. You've now fallen into the trap of tacit
       | knowledge.
       | 
       | This article is bad. What it describes - as others have pointed
       | out - is not "tacit knowledge". It merely describes a problem
       | with lack of documentation.
       | 
       | "Whizbang service" can be documented. You can write a diagram
       | laying out the main components, write a small readme on how to
       | build and run locally on against some staging environment,
       | perhaps even having some internal wiki with a internal runbook of
       | what to do when the service goes tits up.
       | 
       | None of this would touch on "tacit knowledge". Tacit knowledge is
       | there when I get a stack trace, and I already sort of suspect
       | what happened without having to spend hours digging too deep on
       | why. Or when I see some latency metrics for my service, and my
       | first instinct is checking on Slack for deployments on
       | dependencies. You can try to document those things, but it is a
       | fool's errand - you'll end up with a huge mess of text that will
       | work against the purpose of documentation.
        
       | stillwithit wrote:
       | There's less knowledge needed to manage these systems than we
       | want to believe.
       | 
       | Tech is mired in hustle culture, which means it's generating a
       | lot of useless "knowledge" to role-play hustle.
       | 
       | Over engineering re-engineering to justify business headcount,
       | importance, and prestige is a bigger danger in tech than the one
       | this article points out
        
       | mekoka wrote:
       | Nice article and good points, but perhaps the author wasn't aware
       | that "tacit knowledge" is a term already used for something else.
       | 
       | https://commoncog.com/the-tacit-knowledge-series/
       | 
       | Tacit knowledge is undocumentable because it's knowledge borne
       | out of experience. It's tacit because articulating it would be
       | too tedious, impractical, and most probably incomplete. Think
       | learning to play a sport by simply watching videos or reading
       | instructions. Michael Jordan famously explained that although all
       | players are taught the same theory, there's a point in a
       | veteran's career where they can _read_ the game at a different
       | level. Closer to programming, it 's the reason we see more
       | articles repudiating well packaged ideas, such as "Clean Code"
       | (capitalization intended), as past beginners who bought into
       | them, are becoming experienced enough to recognize them as leaky
       | abstractions.
        
       | 6gvONxR4sf7o wrote:
       | I agree with this, but I also mourn the loss of "just talk to
       | someone 20 ft away." The better the docs get, the worse the
       | social ties get. And that's coming from someone who was nearly
       | useless from distraction in an open office.
        
       | RadiozRadioz wrote:
       | The place I've just joined has an extremely big problem with
       | this. There's a lot of documentation, but it all relies on an
       | immense amount of background knowledge to be useful. It's
       | difficult to strike a balance between excessive detail in docs
       | versus wide readership, but I'm inclined to prefer the former as
       | it helps alleviate situations like this.
        
       | csours wrote:
       | Please leave clues as close to the scene of the crime as
       | possible. You can't fix everything, and some fixes are too big
       | and take a long time, but please just leave me a clue.
        
       | dgunay wrote:
       | Some tacit knowledge maybe is impossible to document, but in a
       | lot of circles there is a distinct lack of ability by those who
       | are skilled in some activity to describe how they do things.
       | There is often a split between those who can execute at a world-
       | class level, and those who aren't as good but can teach others
       | effectively. I've seen this dynamic play out in competitive
       | videogames, figure skating, musicianship, etc.
       | 
       | Take figure skating for example. I was being taught how to do a
       | basic two foot spin by someone I know who is/was a competitive
       | figure skater. Not a complicated move. They completely failed to
       | explain to me a critical part of how to do the spin effectively
       | (namely, where on my blades I should keep my balance and how I
       | should angle them). So did several instructors leading classes on
       | figure skating. I floundered for a while until one day I managed
       | to figure it out by random chance.
       | 
       | I was quite annoyed, because to me it is a perfectly explainable
       | thing that everyone was apparently either just figuring out
       | through trial and error or just didn't think was worth
       | explaining. But these kinds of pedagogical "blind spots" pervade
       | nearly all human fields of study.
        
       | jiggawatts wrote:
       | Speaking of tacit experience, I love watching YouTube videos made
       | by professionals working in industries I'm just a rank amateur
       | in.
       | 
       | One thing that occurred to me is that I'll observe these people
       | casually and repeatedly applying "methods of the art" without a
       | second thought, but then spend the entire episode talking about
       | some specific obscure issue they're trying to solve.
       | 
       | In my mind these have equal difficulty -- and in some sense they
       | are equal! It's just that professionals may have done basics so
       | often they don't even think about it any more. It's become a
       | habit, mere tacit knowledge.
       | 
       | Some random examples:
       | 
       | Correctly centering something in a lathe -- done in incorrectly
       | can lead to this:
       | https://www.forbesadvocate.com.au/story/907281/faulty-oil-pi...
       | 
       | I can think of thousands of examples like that: tacit knowledge
       | is the knowledge you gain when you do something many times a day.
       | That doesn't make it less important, less valuable, or more
       | obvious to beginners.
        
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