[HN Gopher] Sony debuts first PS5 controller for disabled gamers
___________________________________________________________________
Sony debuts first PS5 controller for disabled gamers
Author : thunderbong
Score : 292 points
Date : 2023-12-07 07:16 UTC (3 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.bbc.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.bbc.com)
| uxp8u61q wrote:
| Five years after Xbox.
| askonomm wrote:
| So? What does this comparison add to the table? Is it somehow
| bad to create the same thing for a different platform? Did you
| also write on Google Chrome thread when it launched "4 years
| after Firefox"? It just sounds demeaning. I for one don't care
| what Xbox has or doesn't have, I like my PS, and I'm happy that
| people with disabilities can also game on PS now if they'd want
| to do so.
| blitz_skull wrote:
| 5 years late and only one joy stick. How can you
| simultaneously be late to the innovation table AND deliver an
| inferior product?
| alpaca128 wrote:
| What makes you think that an official controller doesn't
| have enough inputs, or that it's inferior? Just a single
| image?
| blitz_skull wrote:
| Uh.. the review where the disabled gamer mentions that he
| can't play the game that needs 2 thumb sticks because the
| controller only had 1. It's stated clearly in the
| article.
| zlg_codes wrote:
| It's merely a reminder that they didn't think of it first and
| aren't trailblazing anything.
|
| There have been many community controllers but I believe MS
| was the first to try to make a real consumer product that
| serves disabilities without DIY stuff. Kind of an odd stunt
| and a tiny market, but it appears to have made some splashes.
|
| Sure we can 'just be happy', but we can also acknowledge that
| Sony didn't care about it until Microsoft did something about
| it. Same as they didn't care about motion controls until
| Nintendo busted out the Wii. Both MS and Sony scrambled to
| put out motion shit the next few years.
| askonomm wrote:
| Fair enough. I guess I'm just conditioned to see that
| almost nobody cares about accessibility and so I'm just
| happy to see a win no matter how small.
| lopis wrote:
| Didn't the Xbox just ban 3rd party controllers?
| alpaca128 wrote:
| Yes, and I'm not surprised considering the quality and price
| of the official models. No need to compete when there's no
| competition.
| DerekL wrote:
| Microsoft banned controllers that they didn't license.
| Microsoft-licensed 3rd-party controllers are still allowed.
| redundantly wrote:
| And Microsoft did it nearly 30 years after Nintendo released
| their Hands Free Controller.
|
| There's no need to attempt to diminish what Sony is doing.
| Anything that improves the quality of life for people that have
| been previously excluded should be applauded. Even if they took
| longer than others.
| prettygood wrote:
| I agree that saying "Microsoft did it already" is a silly
| response to something that is just a positive to gaming. But
| your example of Nintendo doesn't really mean anything when
| Nintendo didn't put a lot of effort in supporting disabled
| people the last generations.
|
| I applaud Nintendo for doing this for the NES, but where are
| they today?
| devnullbrain wrote:
| >But your example of Nintendo doesn't really mean anything
| when Nintendo didn't put a lot of effort in supporting
| disabled people the last generations.
|
| Because it's not an example of Nintendo being good, it's an
| example of why this reductive argument is meaningless.
| tiahura wrote:
| Kind of shameful it took this long.
|
| The Microsoft Superbowl commercial was powerful.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kW46iX_2tFo
| chrisweekly wrote:
| wow, that ad was really moving
| Agingcoder wrote:
| I'm not from the us, so just watched it. It's very surprising
| to me that such a coarse ad would show to so many people. To
| me ( and I have kids ) it feels instantly very very wrong.
|
| While I appreciate ms now makes a controller for people with
| disabilities ( it's great ) , I don't like the fact they're
| making ads about them. In the grand scheme of things, their
| involvement with disabled people is tiny, and this ad just
| makes me feel very very strongly they're taking advantage of
| these kids because the ad isn't about the kids it's about ms
| .
|
| I might be missing something here, either culturally ( I'm
| not American and have different concerns) or something else
| altogether. Could someone help me here see through this ?
|
| Edit ( I've thought about it a bit more, this ad is very
| disturbing to me): in my country ( France), I think this
| would be immediately perceived as a megacorp exploiting kids
| ( we don't trust megacorps and this looks like a Pr stunt)
| Levitating wrote:
| > Could someone help me here see through this ?
|
| To be fair they did actually make the adaptive controller
| and you can buy it right now. It isn't even that expensive.
| They really did make gaming more accessible for many.
|
| As a company that is something you'd be proud of and your
| marketing department would be stupid not to show it off. I
| still thinking it wouldn't be as well received in my
| country (Netherlands) either, especially if played during
| something like the super bowl.
|
| This device Sony has made here in comparison really does
| feel like a little PR stunt, because it looks absolutely
| useless compared to xbox's adaptive controller. It includes
| just one stick that's still an actual joystick... The
| adaptive controller has two large pads for sticks and
| allows you to connect any external device to act as an
| additional input. I am curious how far Sony will take this.
| passwordoops wrote:
| Better late than never, I guess
| FirmwareBurner wrote:
| Designing UX stuff for disabled people is surprisingly hard.
| There's a huge array of disabilities and non-disabled designers
| can't fathom the challenges by themselves so I can imagine it's
| a very lengthy iterative process.
|
| It was also probably never a huge priority for Sony until the
| X-box released their own and showed there's a market for them.
| passwordoops wrote:
| (Edit: original response was to a pithy "it's hard".
| Commenter added context after the fact so I am adding context
| to mine):
|
| No it isn't. Unless the company doing the designing isn't
| serious about it. Exactly of companies who are serious about
| inclusive design are Apple, and if you want gaming Microsoft.
| How are they serious?
|
| - hire people with disabilities across the board so input
| happens at all phases of product development
|
| - include people with disabilities during product and focus
| group testing
|
| - bake inclusive design as part of their process
|
| - hire people with disabilities in QA/QC
|
| So, yes it's difficult if you have one person saying "make
| this thing inclusive otherwise we might get sued". It's not
| difficult if the organization is serious about inclusive
| design
| noitpmeder wrote:
| What are some existing examples of good hardware design
| that has good UX for disabled people?
| prettygood wrote:
| Everything Microsoft did with Xbox long before Sony?
|
| If we focus purely on the console gaming market,
| Microsoft did a lot for disabled people. Multiple
| different controllers and systems were released this
| generation.
| FirmwareBurner wrote:
| It's important to remember that Microsoft has been making
| PC input devices and gaming peripherals (and decent ones
| at that) all the way back since the '90s.
|
| Microsoft gets a lot of well deserved flack, but their
| peripherals were almost always top notch, in line with
| Logitech or even better. Remember their ergonomic split
| keyboards form the '90s?
|
| Maybe some of that UX design heritage rubbed off to the
| X-box as well.
| com2kid wrote:
| Having briefly worked on the xbox 360 accessories team, I
| honestly think it is just because the people there really
| care.
|
| From what I (indirectly) understand, the Microsoft
| accessories team (keyboards, mice, etc) has been
| dismantled and reformed a number of times.
|
| The XB1 controller is an extra odd situation, the team
| who was the Xbox 360 accessories team made the initial
| XB1 controller, and then that team became the Microsoft
| Band team, and an entire different team took over console
| controllers.
| FirmwareBurner wrote:
| _> I honestly think it is just because the people there
| really care_
|
| Sure, but from my experience, for devs and engineers to
| "just care" about the product, they also need to be well
| paid, respected and empowered.
|
| Try seeing how many engineers care when they're
| overworked and underpaid.
| muststopmyths wrote:
| Wow the band was my favorite fitness... band. I was so
| sad they cancelled it
| cma wrote:
| The design for the 360 controller was contracted out
| though, right?
|
| https://techcrunch.com/2014/06/24/oculus-acquires-carbon-
| des...
| dghlsakjg wrote:
| The PlayStation also dates to the 90s, years before Xbox
| was a thing. Sony is a tech company far older than MS
| that specializes in hardware and design. They invented
| entire categories of device with novel ux(the Walkman).
|
| If they wanted to do this earlier, they could have.
| bozhark wrote:
| Sony came before PlayStation. They know how to make
| things.
|
| Kind of.
| bozhark wrote:
| So has Sony.
| caslon wrote:
| Respectfully, I disagree strongly with you.
|
| Apple _isn 't_ serious about inclusive design in
| _hardware._ Their software UX leads are some of the most
| brilliant figures in the fight for accessible computing,
| but their hardware is almost universally _bad_ for
| accessibility. For people with sufficiently-advanced
| dyskinesia, even the most generous software accessibility
| settings aren 't super helpful. It took them thirteen major
| releases of their operating system to offer pointer events
| using external hardware, _broken_ pointer events, which was
| more or less the only way in which people with motor
| disabilities could make the system usable at all.
|
| If Apple is an example of disabled people in an
| organization being serious about inclusive design in a way
| that is "easy," then that reflects incredibly poorly on the
| disabled engineers and designers working at Apple _and_ the
| possibilities of inclusive design as a liberating force.
|
| People at Microsoft worked _hard_ on the Adaptive
| Controller. It _was_ hard, and it took years. It is an
| incredible feat of empathy in engineering.
| FirmwareBurner wrote:
| The Apple mouse if a huge middle finger to anyone with
| fully functioning hands, let alone disabled.
| billyjmc wrote:
| You say that like there's only one time Apple has flubbed
| hard with mice...
| csydas wrote:
| i must confess i did not have a good definition of
| dyskinesia in my mind but reading briefly i absolutely
| can get why apple hardware would be awful with
| dyskinesia; as much as i love the apple trackpads i still
| sometimes get cursor jumps or accidental clicks with the
| touch to click option enabled; im sure there are other
| elements that introduce frustration also but that one i
| can relate to fast.
|
| i have heard high praise for apple with their
| accessibility settings and my colleagues and friend who
| use these options seem to like them, so there's
| something. really hope that the hardware focus continues
| to get traction as just "something that should be done"
| not as a new revenue stream. i thjnk proper accessibility
| and customization serves everyone, not just those with
| disabilities [0]. technology should be adaptable to any
| given user, not the other way around.
|
| 0 - i'm actually not sure if this is right wording but my
| brain struggles to know the preferred term. i am happy to
| have a better way to describe people with disabilities
| georgesimon wrote:
| 'Impairments' is usually an easier word to use.
|
| 'Disabled', in particular, has two differing politically
| charged usages and definitions. That is, whether one is
| disabled by their impairments or by society. It surprises
| most people that the latter is "more correct", being the
| Unesco[0] definition. It's also the more empathetic, in
| my opinion.
|
| There are many opinions about this, and there is no
| collective preferred term.
|
| [0]https://uis.unesco.org/en/glossary-term/disability
| DonHopkins wrote:
| Careful, you're going to trigger the anti-woke MAGA
| meatheads who consider empathy to be a pathetic weakness,
| and love it when their leaders make fun of disabled
| people.
|
| Donald Trump Mocks a Reporter's Disability:
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdLfkhxIH5Q
|
| Elon Musk's Public Spat With A Disabled Employee Is
| Probably The Worst Thing He's Ever Done:
|
| https://junkee.com/elon-musk-halli-thorleifsson-what-
| happene...
|
| Yes, they're here on HN too, unfortunately (just set
| showdead: yes):
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38588302
|
| unsignednoop 17 hours ago [dead] | prev | next [-]
|
| All playstation controllers are for retards
| makeitdouble wrote:
| > I can imagine it's a very lengthy iterative process
|
| Yes. I think that's where it really matters to have something
| out in the world, even if it doesn't cover the full spectrum,
| so they get feedback on what sticks and what doesn't. Sure
| they can make the round of disabled people in their vicinity,
| and get some help for those wanting to engage with the dev
| process, but that can't be comparable to real world users
| actually getting their hands on a product.
|
| On Sony's priorities, they've made so much research on input
| I hope they find a way to merge the two and have the feedback
| from one side help the development of the other "traditional"
| methods. Some games had custom controllers basically purpose
| built, so they're not strangers to doing stuff that doesn't
| scale that much either.
| ycombinatrix wrote:
| it also appears to be inferior to the xbox controller despite
| releasing 5 years later
| Dalewyn wrote:
| I'm kind of astonished at the (initial?) negativity in this
| thread. Sony releases a controller for handicapped users.
| Assuming it doesn't have basic design flaws, what is there to be
| negative about?
| rjh29 wrote:
| First time reading Hacker News?
| zoklet-enjoyer wrote:
| The console has been out for w couple of years. Why not design
| it during design of the console? Isn't there already an
| accessible PS4 controller? Is that not compatible with PS5? (No
| idea, honest question) and if it's not compatible, then why?
| boomboomsubban wrote:
| I believe this is Sony's first controller for people with
| disabilities ever.
| zoklet-enjoyer wrote:
| Yeah, I got it mixed up with the Xbox controller
| addicted wrote:
| I'm guessing a big part of this is that MS had this in 2018
| despite having a less successful product and being a younger
| participant in the industry.
| endisneigh wrote:
| > Assuming it doesn't have basic design flaws, what is there to
| be negative about?
|
| Nothing. Haters gonna hate.
| grumbel wrote:
| Those effort are always a bit iffy since those very same
| companies go to great length to lock third party controllers
| out of their ecosystem, as well as fail to support even their
| very own controllers from previous console generations.
|
| If real accessibility would be the goal, they could just open
| up their ecosystem and make proper use of USB and Bluetooth so
| everybody can build their own controller and keep using them
| across console generations as well as consoles from different
| manufacturers.
| ryukoposting wrote:
| The writer says that their experience with the controller was
| pretty bad. It was clunky to set up and almost unusable for
| many games. The article more or less concludes on "hey, at
| least they tried." I, for one, have higher standards for
| multibillion dollar megacorps.
| eek2121 wrote:
| I came to this thread WITHOUT reading the article because I
| figured they were going to try classify "people with
| disabilities" as singular.
| Levitating wrote:
| > Assuming it doesn't have basic design flaws
|
| To me it seems to have some basic design flaws. As the
| (disabled) author said, there's no right stick and thus most
| games are completely unplayable. He'd rather just have the
| ability to remap the buttons on a normal controller.
|
| Compared to the adaptive xbox controller this thing looks
| absolutely useless to me.
| grumbel wrote:
| > Compared to the adaptive xbox controller this thing looks
| absolutely useless to me.
|
| The XBox adaptive controller doesn't have sticks either. The
| two big touchpad-looking things are just two big digital
| buttons without any touchpad functionality. The Xbox adaptive
| controller really isn't much of a controller by itself, but
| just a large hub where you can plug accessories into via USB
| for sticks and 3.5mm jacks for buttons.
| Levitating wrote:
| Oh I did think they were touchpad-like analog inputs.
| Thanks for pointing that out.
| dghlsakjg wrote:
| > what is there to be negative about?
|
| It doesn't have a full set of controls/inputs that the standard
| controller has. Most notably you need a regular controller or a
| second adaptive controller if you want to play any game that
| uses both control sticks. That's a lot of games that are
| completely unplayable with this device
| SpaceManNabs wrote:
| The PS5 and its games have great accessibility settings. No more
| fears of developing carpal tunnel for me.
| jader201 wrote:
| > No more fears of developing carpal tunnel for me.
|
| Unfortunately, I developed major RSI in my right hand from
| playing Horizon Forbidden West, to the point that I had to stop
| playing console games for several months. And I don't typically
| have that problem on any other console, including previous PS
| consoles.
|
| There's something about the shape of the controller in
| combination with the controls for that game, which requires
| frequent usage of both R triggers, sometimes in combination
| with other buttons. Also could be related to the force feedback
| of the triggers that's new on PS5 (though it doesn't seem
| frequent/strong enough to matter).
|
| I never had this same problem with Horizon Zero Dawn on the
| PS4, even though the controls are mostly the same.
|
| I'm not sure I'll be able to finish Forbidden West.
| autoexec wrote:
| Not all games have them, but I do appreciate those that do.
| bluedevil2k wrote:
| I'm still waiting for the first ps5 controller that doesn't break
| from controller drag after 10-14 months. Seriously, there needs
| to be a class action at this point.
| ok_dad wrote:
| It's criminal that they haven't redesigned the sticks
| autoexec wrote:
| I wouldn't mind it so much if the controllers were a third of
| the price they currently charge, although getting a new
| controller all the time still means a lot of unnecessary
| trash and more of my time spent cracking open each
| replacement to pull out the microphones.
| bluedevil2k wrote:
| Walmart sells controllers with a $4 3 year warranty that they
| claim covers everything. I'm going that route this time and
| will see what happens in 12 months when it breaks.
| popcalc wrote:
| The way it typically works is you go out aiming for a
| specific lifetime in button presses and study the ones that
| come back from QA after dying around that mark.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoebus_cartel?useskin=vector#.
| ..
| couchand wrote:
| You need to be studying the button presses on the
| controllers that _don 't_ come back.
| everdrive wrote:
| Curious why this is a problem. Switch has the same issue, but
| none of the more old fashioned controllers I've ever owned have
| had this problem.
| 542458 wrote:
| I can't speak for controllers, but for wireless mice I've
| read that many issues are due to the very low voltages that
| they run at to extend battery life - the low voltage means
| that buttons + etc become much more susceptible to dirt and
| oxidization.
| goosedragons wrote:
| Change of dead zone. Modern controllers have smaller dead
| zones and more accurate sticks. So when they start breaking
| down they pickup more phantom movements. Switch joycons are
| more likely because of the size of the stick (need less dead
| zone because size).
| thomasfortes wrote:
| Yeah, a PS2 controller has a graveyard at the center when
| compared to a PS5 or series controller, just grab a cheap
| USB controller from Amazon and use some tool to see the
| precision of modern controllers.
|
| That said, unless conventional sticks get way cheaper I'll
| stick to hall effect ones.
| crawancon wrote:
| They all use the same hardware in the joysticks and have been
| for years (maybe since 90s). there must have been a defective
| version made along the way, but it's not an easy nor cost
| effective repair.
| phatskat wrote:
| I would wager it comes down to more precise readings. You
| could theoretically use the same hardware for the stick
| itself but be getting much higher precision readings, which
| would mean that drift is much more apparent.
| mherkender wrote:
| ALPS makes the hardware for the joysticks the major console
| companies use. They are cheap and work great -- except they
| have a really really short half-life. Even the Xbox Pro
| Controller (which is like $200) uses them which is crazy.
|
| I'm guessing it makes financial sense to keep using them so
| nothing changes.
|
| Hall effect joysticks are becoming more popular but they're
| usually harder to get ahold of and may not actually be that
| much better in the long run. Time will tell!
| pteraspidomorph wrote:
| I wonder if they make the analog sticks on VR controllers
| too. Many have similar issues.
| Waterluvian wrote:
| Neither of my controllers have had any issues after 582 hours
| (omg...) of Elden Ring. I had no clue this was a thing!
|
| My Switch on the other hand...
| oth001 wrote:
| Same with Xbox One/Series controllers. Never had issues with
| Original Xbox controllers (maybe after 2 years) but I've had ~5
| Xbox One controllers with stick drift and other issues within a
| year (first-party and third-party).
| womod wrote:
| Controllers that use hall effect sensor sticks last much longer
| than the conventional potentiometer sticks. The pot sticks are
| subject to physical wear while the hall effect sticks are not
| because there is no contact.
|
| There's some guides on aftermarket modifications of controllers
| to convert them to hall effect sensors, as well as 3rd party
| controllers made with hall effect sticks. If you want something
| to use on PC and/or switch the KingKong 2[1] from GuliKit is
| pretty good.
|
| [1] - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09QJN8ZD9
| georgel wrote:
| Has there been a console that uses hall effect sensors in
| first party controllers in the past 15 years?
| womod wrote:
| No. The last "mainstream" console to use hall effect sticks
| in the first party controller was the Dreamcast, and that
| was in 1999.
| tycho-newman wrote:
| Buying a new controller is cheaper than the lawsuit.
| darknavi wrote:
| The best time to do this was when the console launched, the
| second best time is now.
|
| As a MSFT employee in Gaming we get accessibility put front and
| center in our faces often and even then it can easily be "best
| effort" or almost ignored if you aren't careful. I am really
| happy more and more games are getting on board with solid
| accessibility settings and peripherals that can bring the joy of
| games to more and more people. Gaming is such a magical medium of
| entertainment and engagement that everyone should be able to
| enjoy it.
| nocsi wrote:
| MS only does things if there's a financial reason and not any
| sort of altruism. You lose out on sales if your game doesn't
| have controller support - through which is the only way many
| people can play games. Meanwhile there's "accessibility" in the
| rest of the company.
| alsodumb wrote:
| Just so I understand this right, you're saying that the only
| reason Microsoft designs and releases accessible controllers
| is because they make money off it? I don't think that's
| right, given how much they have to invest in it and how small
| the market is.
| cqqxo4zV46cp wrote:
| This sort of simplistic thinking is indicative of a person
| that's just...never been part of a much larger whole before?
| You're actually giving Microsoft immense credit with your
| claim that an organisation with such a high head count could
| converge so highly on reasoning to do something. In reality,
| in any large organisation, anything that happens, happens
| almost by happenstance. Someone was sick for that meeting and
| didn't get a chance to make a case for their alternative pet
| project. Someone has a disability that would benefit from
| using this controller. Someone saw the market value. Blah
| blah blah.
|
| The way some people talk about tech companies sounds a whole
| lot like the way that people talk about celebrities. It's
| absurd.
| Levitating wrote:
| It's the same with countries. I've heard conspiracies where
| the whole of NATO has put Zelensky as a puppet president in
| Ukraine so they could start a war with Russia for political
| gain or something like that, I don't remember the
| conspiracy having a real motif.
| TaylorAlexander wrote:
| Well I don't claim to have any evidence but that's the
| kind of thing I wouldn't put past any military power
| group. It sounds like there has been a real power
| struggle on Ukraine in the last decade at least, with
| pro-Russia leadership followed by pro-nato leadership.
| Seems completely plausible that there would be covert
| interference on both sides to influence things.
| madeofpalk wrote:
| All these companies only ever do things for financial
| reasons. Enabling all people to use your serivce or device or
| website is a win-win.
|
| Sony doesn't sell the Playstation as an act of charity. They
| do it to let people give them money for things they enjoy
| using. Likewise for these types of accessories.
| RobotToaster wrote:
| Then you block third party accessibility devices...
| https://www.ign.com/articles/why-xboxs-third-party-accessori...
| Levitating wrote:
| To be fair there are more and more devices on the market that
| are made to assist cheaters.[1][2][3] Banning third party
| controllers will even the playing field for all players of
| competitive games. Besides Microsoft obviously wants to
| monopolize their overly expensive controllers. Microsoft
| themselves have already made Adaptive Controller which isn't
| too expensive and supports a wide range of external devices.
| You can think what you want about the ban but you can't frame
| it as them banning accessibility devices specifically.
|
| [1]: https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2021/07/cheat-maker-
| brags-of-...
|
| [2]: https://www.cronusmax.com/
|
| [3]: https://www.consoletuner.com/products/titan-two/
| anonymousab wrote:
| Those cheating devices usually use a first party controller
| for authentication and the major ones were not affected by
| the recent changes at all.
| jonhohle wrote:
| On the Playstation side they use remote play to avoid
| detection. Sony has some old devices they no longer patch
| that can still be used as remote play clients (PS
| Vita/TV) which may or may not be impacted if they patched
| that vector.
| zzixp wrote:
| Former MSFT gaming intern here. The internal conversations
| around accessibility are fantastic, you all are killing it.
| robertlagrant wrote:
| I'd love it if you also provided a console wide setting for
| y-axis look inversion : - )
| redbonsai wrote:
| This is great news!
|
| If you're interested in this kind of thing, do check out The
| Controller Project who have been providing free (or almost free)
| custom controller modifications to gamers for over a decade:
| https://thecontrollerproject.com/
| andrewstuart wrote:
| I applaud this but its taken so long for disabled gamers to be
| considered.
|
| If only the billionaires at the top of gaming companies had
| disabled children it would be different.
| waswaswas wrote:
| Satya Nadella's son had severe cerebral palsy
| skavi wrote:
| Which goes to andrewstuart's point; the Microsoft Adaptive
| Controller was released five years ago.
| DonHopkins wrote:
| Don't Donald Jr. and Eric count? ;)
| scarface_74 wrote:
| I still don't get it. How do I use this as someone who can only
| use one hand.
| donatj wrote:
| Looking at the pictures I don't understand who this is for? I
| immediately understand looking at Xbox's accessible controller
| who it's for and how to use it.
|
| The button layout on this thing seems harder to use than a normal
| controller for most people other than those with extremely
| limited fine muscle control?
|
| My father has one arm, and one finger on said arm. I don't see
| how this is going to help him at all.
|
| Am I missing something?
| khazhoux wrote:
| It's all right in the article.
|
| > But designing accessibility products is a massive task, as
| every disabled person's impairment is unique to them, and
| gaming technology is always evolving. Sony's plan to tackle
| this problem is through customisation - making it possible for
| each person to tailor the solution to their own individual
| requirements.
| hackernews1134 wrote:
| On the topic of Microsoft having done this far in advance of
| Sony; I recall (perhaps incorrectly) that Satya has an autistic
| child.
|
| I wonder if a leader that has to personally, in their daily
| lives, deal with an individual who requires assistive
| technologies imparts a level of empathy to their organization...
| which led to Microsoft taking a lead in this?
|
| Just a random thought....
|
| Edit: paragraph spacing
| vermilingua wrote:
| Not autistic, cerebral palsy, and died young. I imagine that
| would shape the way you do everything in life yeah.
| coolandsmartrr wrote:
| There seems to be more focus on accessibility in Microsoft
| products since Satya took over as CEO. For instance, now
| there's a section dubbed "Accessibility" in the bottom bar in
| MS Office.
| userbinator wrote:
| It's box-ticking accessibility, not truely increasing
| accessibility. Ask yourself how much of the MS site is
| usable in a text-only browser, or even one that merely has
| JS turned off.
| doublepg23 wrote:
| Do disabled people usually use text-only browsers or turn
| off JS? That seems orthogonal to being disabled.
| userbinator wrote:
| That's why I'm saying it's box-ticking. Simple HTML is
| more accessible to everyone. That includes those with
| screenreaders and other content extraction/reformatting
| tools.
| slimsag wrote:
| My understanding is all modern screenreaders (NVDA, JAWS,
| VoiceOver, etc.) handle JS websites perfectly fine and
| modern accessibility standards in JS are much more than
| box-ticking.
|
| I'm a fan of simple HTML, too-but I don't believe it has
| any real impact on accessibility over JS with
| accessibility in mind. If there are specific cases where
| that is not true, I'd love to know them
| pjerem wrote:
| JS issues with accessibility is not inherent to the JS
| compatibility itself with the browser.
|
| It's much more that JS tends to make your page being
| modified in unexpected ways. If all you have is a voice
| reading the page, you may be submerged by information
| each time the dom changes and you may have a hard time
| understanding what is the context of the element which
| changed.
| yreg wrote:
| You can still make it perfectly accessible screen-reader-
| wise/WCAG-wise.
|
| Pointing out to actual accessibility issues would have
| been a much better argument than generic complaining
| about the website requiring JS.
| nottorp wrote:
| How does it work with a screen reader when the JS decides
| to refresh all controls simultaneously?
| yreg wrote:
| https://developer.mozilla.org/en-
| US/docs/Web/Accessibility/A...
| doublepg23 wrote:
| Here is a video of a blind person browsing the web
| https://youtu.be/OOvXuz6ejuw
| userbinator wrote:
| If you think it's confusing to have a page change while
| you're reading it with your eyes, imagine what that would
| do to someone who can't see and relies on a screenreader
| telling them.
| robin_reala wrote:
| Right, but that's why you have aria-live regions and
| politeness levels. All things considered, a simpler page
| is typically more accessible but:
|
| - a simpler page is typically more usable as well, and
|
| - sometimes you have inherent complexity that it's also
| possible to make accessible
| pxc wrote:
| Blind users definitely lean heavily on the text-only
| dimension of the web.
| kevingadd wrote:
| The last time I opened the Accessibility tab in
| powerpoint, it was full of reminders to add alt text for
| images and other things like that. It seems meaningful.
| Is all of that stuff meaningless?
| dr_kiszonka wrote:
| Office has some useful accessibility features but there are
| obvious features missing. For example, Word will read aloud
| documents, which is great. There is a shortcut to bring up
| relevant controls but I couldn't find a shortcut to resume
| reading after I edited the text. There also doesn't seem to
| be a way for it to read comments. Ultimately, you need to
| use a screen reader.
| politelemon wrote:
| I have observed the same anecdotally, where the personal effect
| on the leader led them to provide more empathy and time to
| employees through policy changes.
|
| But conversely, I've also seen our prime minister get covid,
| come close to dying, and it did nothing to stem the cruelty and
| disregard that they proceeded to maintain out for the next few
| years.
| rvba wrote:
| In most of the world investments in sport (football - the one
| americans call soccer) are made because the CEO who is the
| main shareholdrer like it.
|
| Especially as in most of the world leagues have relegation,
| so the money invested can be quickly lost.
| ixwt wrote:
| Also, Microsoft recently started banning unauthorized third
| party devices, which includes some disability devices (not all,
| just some).
| OptionX wrote:
| While I applaud the effort would A controller for disabled people
| work?
|
| Doesn't what works depend on the disability the person has?
| arglebargle123 wrote:
| That's the point of the controller being a kit thing that can
| be built a bunch of different ways
| oxguy3 wrote:
| It's a rearrangeable kit where you can position the buttons and
| sticks in whatever layout works for you. Their website explains
| it a little better: https://www.playstation.com/en-
| us/accessories/access-control...
| deadbabe wrote:
| Sometimes this stuff made for disabled people turns out to be
| great for fully enabled people as well. This could be cool.
| pxc wrote:
| Accessibility and hackability are very closely related, in
| multiple ways.
| politelemon wrote:
| When GitHub introduced their colour blind changes, the
| deuteranopia theme turned out to be my favourite.
| RCitronsBroker wrote:
| YES!!
| ascorbic wrote:
| This is often called the "curb cut effect" and is part of the
| principles of universal design. The most obvious other example
| is closed captions, which have become so widely used that it's
| hard to remember that only a few years ago hardly any videos
| had them
| rtpg wrote:
| It's still very unfortunate that these platforms don't just let
| people use custom USB inputs, instead of asking people to buy
| stuff over and over. There are obviously things that won't work
| as well, but this is acceptable in many circumstances!
| poisonborz wrote:
| They want to milk console accessories to all extent, making a
| PC-like universal port would nullify that. It's why they are
| rather put in the money to make a first party solution for this
| use case.
| rmccue wrote:
| They note that the controller has 4 "industry standard 3.5mm
| expansion ports" so sounds like they do have some sort of
| standard support.
| Roark66 wrote:
| It's very good product like this exists from Sony themselves, but
| would it make it so much more expensive to add a second stick?
| rmccue wrote:
| It's designed so that you can pair two together, or one with a
| controller; I think they talked about this motivation back when
| they announced it.
|
| https://blog.playstation.com/2023/01/04/introducing-project-...
| idk1 wrote:
| This comment was written with screen dictation so apologies if it
| reads like someone has said it out loud.
|
| This is fantastic news. I'm making assumption about the design
| here, because it only has one control stick. You need two of
| these, one for them left joystick and one for the right joystick.
| That's actually even better, if that is the case, because it
| means you can put the two control stick as far away from each
| other as possible if you want that set up. You could even buy a
| third of controller button with your foot. I hope that is the
| case.
|
| I just like to call out Nintendo here for complete lack of
| disability access. There is no support for disabled controllers
| whatsoever for a Nintendo switch and it's shocking from Nintendo.
| You have to buy some very expensive third-party gear if you want
| to have any sort of disabled access for the Nintendo switch.
| theshrike79 wrote:
| You can also pair this with a DualSense controller.
|
| I saw a video of a man using this with one limb and the analog
| stick on a "regular" controller with another. He said it worked
| perfectly for their use.
| goosedragons wrote:
| You can get an adapter like the Mayfair Magic NS and hook up an
| Xbox adaptive controller. Yeah it's an extra $20 it maybe
| shouldn't be but on the plus side you can then share the
| controller among a PC/Xbox/Switch.
| CTDOCodebases wrote:
| Some of the game companies are cracking down on non standard
| controllers.
|
| Maybe not an issue if you are not using mouse and keyboard
| but I don't know the specifics.
| goosedragons wrote:
| That's only an issue on Xbox. And if you use an Xbox
| Adaptive controller then it's fine.
| jorvi wrote:
| "Non-standard controllers" being devices that basically
| amount to cheating, either giving you mouse+kb input with
| controller aim assist, or giving you access to things like
| recoil compensation scripts.
| nottorp wrote:
| What's the point of even selling just the one joystick? Isn't
| everyone just going to have to buy two?
| jeremyjh wrote:
| I guess to make it look more affordable than it is.
| _a_a_a_ wrote:
| "more affordable" -> cheaper
| micromacrofoot wrote:
| there are a good number of games where you can get away with
| one
| nottorp wrote:
| Hmm i do own a ps5 and from what i've played i can think of
| 3 titles, all platformer-ish.
|
| All the immersive 3d titles need both joysticks?
| micromacrofoot wrote:
| there are dozens of indie games that are platformers and
| other varieties of 2d, I almost never play dual joystick
| games myself
| schmorptron wrote:
| There are probably some people who only have enough motor
| function to use one joystick, and then use other, custom
| input devices to assign to other buttons or potentiometers.
| blincoln wrote:
| I was assuming there was a way to configure a button that
| would toggle the stick between left and right, since most
| games I've played don't require using both at once.[1] I
| don't see a conclusive answer in their online docs, though,
| and looking at the layout and parts, I don't see a tag or
| other way to assign that hypothetical function.
|
| It would be unfortunate if sending right stick messages
| really does require buying a whole separate controller. The
| rest of the product seems almost unbelievably thoughtful and
| well-designed.
|
| Regardless, hopefully they used Hall effect sensors for the
| stick this time, because drift is frustrating enough on a
| regular PS5 controller. Imagine having to buy a whole new
| Access Controller every time you fail your saving throw on
| stick drift.
|
| [1] e.g. one is for movement, the other is for manual camera
| control.
| Kipters wrote:
| Something I'd like them to clarify is what happens when
| Playstation 6 comes out. Will users be able to use their PS5
| controllers, including the accessibility controllers, or will
| they be forced to buy it all over again?
|
| Their track record is horrible in that sense. You can use PS4
| controllers on PS5 but not for PS5 games, so they don't even have
| the "technical reasons" excuse.
| blincoln wrote:
| I would assume that this is completely PS5-specific. I've
| really liked the overall PlayStation experience ever since the
| PS2, but I think part of the reason everything works so
| smoothly is that every generation is a pretty strict walled
| garden.[1] Not having a compatibility layer to upconvert PS4
| controller input to mimic a PS5 controller removes a whole
| branch of code, testing/user troubleshooting steps/bug fixing,
| and complexity.
|
| I'm genuinely surprised that Sony built and released an
| accessible controller at all. This feels like a huge step for
| them. So while it might be frustrating to imagine having to
| upgrade when the PS6 comes out in the distant future, it's
| still a net positive IMO.
|
| [1] I'm still a little grumpy that I couldn't use the PS3 media
| remote with the PS4 or later, because it worked better than the
| ones that came after.
| c-hendricks wrote:
| > Not having a compatibility layer to upconvert PS4
| controller input to mimic a PS5 controller removes a whole
| branch of code, testing/user troubleshooting steps/bug
| fixing, and complexity.
|
| Such a layer already exists: https://remoteplay.dl.playstatio
| n.net/remoteplay/lang/en/110...
| sesm wrote:
| One popular Twitch streamer after hurting his hand badly on a
| punch machine played Elden Ring on a regular PS5 controller with
| only his left hand, and he got pretty far.
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