[HN Gopher] Arch Linux bugtracker migration to Gitlab completed
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       Arch Linux bugtracker migration to Gitlab completed
        
       Author : Foxboron
       Score  : 106 points
       Date   : 2023-12-08 12:14 UTC (10 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (archlinux.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (archlinux.org)
        
       | dveeden2 wrote:
       | Looks like the planform they used before GitLab was Flyspray.
       | 
       | I assume this brings better integration between SCM and
       | bugtracker.
        
         | gromit_arch wrote:
         | Yes, the other big new thing also is that people can now create
         | MR's for the packages aswell! So far this is working well and
         | we are getting a lot of high-quality contributions :)
        
       | 0xDEF wrote:
       | How is Valve contributing back to Arch Linux considering it is
       | the base for their SteamOS?
        
         | dtx1 wrote:
         | Proton, Gamescope, Linux ESync/FSync Patches are all at least
         | related to valves efforts from what I can gather and as an Arch
         | User I feel it's the premier linux gaming distro due to valves
         | efforts.
         | 
         | I think most of the work Valve does is upstream from Arch
         | though but it's trickling down very fast (with arch, sometimes
         | hours, if it's an AUR-Git package, seconds).
        
           | Schlaefer wrote:
           | On that point: How SteamOS is Contributing to the Linux
           | Ecosystem - LinuxCon 2023
           | 
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7YbqrJ0_nM
           | 
           | PS: The core of Valve's technical contribution is around the
           | SteamDeck. You already know it runs Linux, Proton,
           | yadayadayada. An obvious fact that only clicked for me after
           | being mentioned in the presentation: if you aren't in the
           | Steam store but want your app on the SteamDeck the primary
           | option is a Linux version (distributed through flatpack).
           | That (commercial) incentive alone is a huge benefit. Suddenly
           | you can make a business case why your product maybe should
           | support Linux.
        
           | timetraveller26 wrote:
           | "Apart from sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public
           | order, roads, the fresh water system, and public health ...
           | what have the Romans ever done for us?"
        
           | jorvi wrote:
           | > I feel it's the premier linux gaming distro due to valves
           | efforts.
           | 
           | For anyone reading this: virtually every piece of code is
           | upstreamed to the projects themselves (Mesa etc.), there is
           | no reason to jump to Arch for gaming.
        
         | freedomben wrote:
         | Valve is a Linux and Arch MVP, and as a die-hard Linux user, my
         | appreciation for them is immense. Without Valve's efforts,
         | Linux user base would be a lot smaller because a lot of people
         | would be using Windows. I wouldn't be able to game (since I am
         | a Linux-only house) without a complicated windows VM setup. So
         | just the fact that they support Linux with their proprietary
         | software, and the fact that they used Arch for the Steam Deck
         | (giving strong commercial incentive to game devs to support
         | linux or at least proton, which IMHO is good enough) is a big
         | contribution to the community. They also made the Steam Deck
         | fully hackable by the owners, so you can do neat things with it
         | including running all your games from some other store if you
         | want.
         | 
         | But on top of that, they contribute a _ton_ of things that
         | benefit even people who never touch Steam. Valve slings
         | graphics stack and GPU code, and of course Proton /Wine,
         | Gamescope, and a handful of other things. They are _awesome_
         | about upstreaming stuff, and when it 's not upstreamable (say
         | for example a new or standalone project) they tend to open it.
        
       | lemper wrote:
       | arch resides in a special place in my heart. as long as what they
       | do is reasonable, I give my support.
        
         | alfiedotwtf wrote:
         | Yep same... I'm on Mac OS these days as a host but FreeBSD,
         | Debian, and Arch are my long-distance relationship kind of an
         | operating system.
        
           | yakubin wrote:
           | Same. And same selection of OS-es. :)
        
           | freedomben wrote:
           | Honest question, I'm genuinely curious, why would you move
           | from Arch to Mac OS?
           | 
           | I'm a big Arch fan but moved to Fedora because the overhead
           | of managing updates in a rolling release got to be too much,
           | and Fedora is very similar to Arch in conventions it follows,
           | so most of my knowledge transferred over seamlessly (other
           | than package manager of course). Moving to Mac OS though
           | seems like it would render most of your knowledge/experience
           | useless. I got stuck on a macbook for a short-term contract
           | and found it maddening and confining in so many ways
        
       | jiripospisil wrote:
       | It would be great if you could use an existing AUR account when
       | logging through the SSO.
        
         | gromit_arch wrote:
         | That does not work, in the future it is planned to have the AUR
         | hooked up to the SSO service (so the other way around).
         | 
         | If you write an email to the accountsupport email though (as
         | instructed) you'll get an account quickly :)
        
       | gumballindie wrote:
       | Gitlab is a more suitable choice than github - not surprised arch
       | mase that choice given their pattern of making good choices.
        
       | NewJazz wrote:
       | How many distros now have their own GitLab instance? I know
       | Alpine, Arch, and Debian do. Any others?
       | 
       | Plus Freedesktop, GNOME, U-Boot, and probably more I am not aware
       | of.
       | 
       | At this point, even if GitLab decided to close down their CE
       | offering, I think there is enough momentum in the community to
       | keep it going (at least for a little while).
        
         | hedora wrote:
         | Yesterday, I first heard of the screwed-o-meter:
         | 
         | https://rachelbythebay.com/fun/som/
         | 
         | Plugging in for GitHub gets a score of about 90%. GitLab is in
         | the mid 30%'s. (Assuming Arch is keeping a backup mirror of the
         | bugtracker, etc on a private instance somewhere.)
         | 
         | That seems good enough to not bother with actually hosting it
         | yourself. I'd rather they spend volunteer time on stuff other
         | than applying security patches to a giant beast of a web
         | service.
        
           | trufas wrote:
           | They're using Gitlab CE. I assume the whole thing is running
           | on their own servers.
        
             | Foxboron wrote:
             | We do. The infrastructure is obviously open-source as well.
             | 
             | Ansible role for gitlab: https://gitlab.archlinux.org/archl
             | inux/infrastructure/-/tree...
             | 
             | Gitlab playbook: https://gitlab.archlinux.org/archlinux/inf
             | rastructure/-/blob...
        
               | trufas wrote:
               | I guess it makes sense but still, brave to be running all
               | the infra on Arch ;)
               | 
               | This is really clean! I'll definitely be using it as a
               | reference for IaC done right. Congrats on the migration.
        
               | Foxboron wrote:
               | A lot of effort is spent on packaging the stuff we need
               | for our own infrastructure so we can run it in prod.
               | Gitlab is one of these exceptions but generally it's been
               | working well for us.
        
           | arp242 wrote:
           | No idea how you can get all the way up to 90% for GitHub. You
           | need to click all but two checkboxes for that, and that's
           | clearly just bollocks.
        
         | dnsmichi wrote:
         | GitLab team member here.
         | 
         | > How many distros now have their own GitLab instance?
         | 
         | Open Source project partners are listed in
         | https://about.gitlab.com/solutions/open-source/partners/
         | 
         | More insights into GitLab for Open Source in
         | https://about.gitlab.com/solutions/open-source/ and the Open
         | Source program handbook page in
         | https://handbook.gitlab.com/handbook/marketing/developer-rel...
         | -- created an MR to update the section at the bottom with
         | Hacker News examples. https://gitlab.com/gitlab-com/content-
         | sites/handbook/-/merge...
        
           | Foxboron wrote:
           | Here is a post of the git migration to Gitlab on their tech
           | blog written by Levente Polyak (Arch project leader).
           | 
           | https://about.gitlab.com/blog/2023/09/11/migrating-arch-
           | linu...
           | 
           | Mentioning it as it never did well on HN, but probably
           | interesting in light of this post.
        
         | roywashere wrote:
         | VLC is also using their selfhosted Gitlab. And just as on the
         | Arch gitlab, they had to turn off autoregistration due to spam
         | and are resorting to manual validation instead. Sad!
        
           | dnsmichi wrote:
           | GitLab team member here.
           | 
           | Spamcheck is available for all tiers https://docs.gitlab.com/
           | ee/administration/reporting/spamchec... For licensing
           | reasons, it can only be included in EE, and not CE.
           | https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/omnibus-
           | gitlab/-/issues/6259#n... You can run GitLab EE with the free
           | tier as well.
        
             | Foxboron wrote:
             | That is not great. Currently this makes the barrier of
             | entry for new people to contribute to projects using gitlab
             | _quite_ a lot higher.
             | 
             | There is also a huge volunteer cost here where we have to
             | manually make accounts.
        
       | pyrophane wrote:
       | Gitlab's Open Source program actually seems prety good:
       | 
       | https://about.gitlab.com/solutions/open-source/join/
       | 
       | They offer everything in Ultimate, including 50k hosted CI
       | minutes, and the requirements seems reasonable (basically,
       | everything needs to be public, have an open-source license, and
       | you can't profit from add-ons or services).
       | 
       | The drawback is that it looks like you have to apply for it to
       | use it.
        
         | freedomben wrote:
         | Neat, I only wish their pricing for commercial was more
         | reasonable. The bundling they do makes it a complete non-
         | starter for people or companies who don't use the CI/CD, for
         | example.
        
         | dnsmichi wrote:
         | GitLab team member here.
         | 
         | Next to using GitLab.com SaaS, Open Source Program members can
         | also choose to self-manage their GitLab instance -- like Arch
         | Linux.
         | 
         | > The drawback is that it looks like you have to apply for it
         | to use it.
         | 
         | This is a requirement, yes, but should not take too much of
         | your time. You can learn how the process works in
         | https://handbook.gitlab.com/handbook/marketing/developer-rel...
        
           | paddy_m wrote:
           | FYI, the "Learn More Link" on [1] results in a 404. It links
           | to [2]
           | 
           | update: ahh I see there is a "migration" popup on the 404
           | page.
           | 
           | [1] https://about.gitlab.com/solutions/open-source/join/
           | 
           | [2] https://handbook.gitlab.com/handbook/marketing/developer-
           | rel...
        
         | openthc wrote:
         | Another unfortunate thing of their Open Source Program is that
         | companies that make open-source (MIT, GPL) and have a
         | commercial offering as well (eg: GitLab themselves) are not
         | allowed to use their Open Source Program.
        
           | SuperNinKenDo wrote:
           | Seems reasonable enough though.
        
           | calamari4065 wrote:
           | Well, yeah. The point is to give free access to free projects
           | that don't make money _because_ they don 't make money and
           | can't pay for Enterprise.
           | 
           | If you have a commercial offering, you can probably afford to
           | pay for your tools.
        
       | shmerl wrote:
       | Congrats! I wish Debian would do it too.
        
         | sytse wrote:
         | They already do I think. See https://salsa.debian.org/public
         | and https://about.gitlab.com/blog/2023/09/19/debian-
         | customizes-c...
        
           | shmerl wrote:
           | For the source code yeah, but not for the issue tracker.
           | Debian's issue tracker is very archaic and annoying to use
           | when needed.
        
             | jiripospisil wrote:
             | I'm glad it's not just me. I've given up on bug reporting
             | to Debian on at least ~two occasions because the email sent
             | via reportbug simply wouldn't go through without any
             | indication as to why. Fortunately somebody else was more
             | successful and all got fixed.
        
               | shmerl wrote:
               | I never understood why it has to be so clunky. Some
               | people might like this old style e-mail workflow, but I
               | find it irritating.
        
       | xbpx wrote:
       | Arch sends distribution news every week or so, usually in one or
       | two paragraphs.
       | 
       | https://archlinux.org/
       | 
       | I've followed the gitlab migration and every package and
       | distribution change that warranted community notification for
       | more than a decade.
       | 
       | It's such an empowering feeling to have tracked all the changes
       | to the distribution over a decade. The Arch maintainer culture
       | has managed to provide consistent high quality communication and
       | documentation.
       | 
       | Most of the news doesn't require action on my part, being a
       | subsystem or package I don't use. They use the news channel
       | sparingly and the distribution is minimal and clean. News arrives
       | only every other week or so and is succinctly written in one or
       | two paragraphs.
       | 
       | It's a distribution for those who love precision and
       | professionalism.
        
         | abound wrote:
         | That's one thing (of many things) I've always appreciated about
         | Arch: for those rare instances where I run `pacman -Syu` and it
         | fails, I instinctively go to their homepage and look at the
         | "Latest News", which invariably tells me what I need to do.
        
       | costco wrote:
       | Gitlab is a great product but using it has a negative effect on
       | getting contributions for an open source project outside of the
       | core developers due to Github's larger user base. I have seen
       | this play out many times.
        
         | wizhi wrote:
         | And the only way to mitigate the cancer that is GitHub is to
         | normalize contributing elsewhere.
        
         | sesm wrote:
         | It may have negative effect on the number of issues/PRs, but
         | can also act as a spam filter and the net effect can be
         | positive.
        
         | themerone wrote:
         | I don't buy into this argument. If someone doesn't have the
         | knowledge and motivation necessary to use another platform,
         | they aren't going to be making meaningful contributions to your
         | project.
         | 
         | It might mean less bug reports from users who find bugs, but
         | aren't deeply affected by them.
         | 
         | The upside is a lot less garbage in your issue tracker.
        
         | codemac wrote:
         | This is moving the previous flyspray issue tracker to gitlab.
         | It's not like they were on github before.
        
       | hubba_the_jut wrote:
       | Congrats! Arch is my first and only distro and it's amazing.
       | 
       | Looking forward to possibly contribute.
       | 
       | I know this is off topic but does anyone know how are we on
       | having packages with lto by default and multiple -march? Is the
       | new pkgctl going to allow multiple automatic rebuilds?
        
         | ElijahLynn wrote:
         | So true! I love the AUR, it is like the Homebrew of Linux. Or,
         | flipped, Homebrew is like the AUR of Mac.
         | 
         | My new company is considering adopting Linux and is considering
         | Ubuntu, and I pitched Arch because I really want to use the AUR
         | again. I don't like installing PPAs with Ubuntu.
        
           | c-hendricks wrote:
           | Homebrew is also the Homebrew of Linux, with the bonus that
           | it works on more than one distro.
        
       | ElijahLynn wrote:
       | Odd that the news post didn't link directly to
       | https://gitlab.archlinux.org/archlinux/packaging/packages which
       | is what bugs.archlinux.org links to.
       | 
       | The news post should be updated to include the above.
        
       | reactordev wrote:
       | I'm seriously impressed with Gitlab's issue system. I mean, it's
       | apparent that they are great at git hosting and repository
       | collaboration but the issue management system is really good.
       | Epics, backlogs, stories, labels, tags, milestones, boards,
       | roadmaps, it's all there.
       | 
       | I was just having a conversation with a coworker about Jira vs
       | Gitlab and why it doesn't make sense for us to switch to Jira
       | over using Gitlab issues. After test driving it for a few weeks
       | and now with a little "nudge" of backing from Arch with this post
       | about how they have migrated to it, I was able to convince my
       | coworker that Gitlab issues is more than enough for what we do
       | and that adding Atlassian on top of that would only add to costs.
       | FWIW, I love Atlassian Jira+Confluence duo. I don't like
       | Bitbucket at all. It feels very antiquated and Jenkins-like. The
       | UI theme isn't the issue, it's the layout, the nav, the
       | construction that just rubs me the "we don't care about your
       | productivity" way.
        
       | oigursh wrote:
       | GitLab UI is pretty bad compared to GitHub.
       | 
       | GitHub docs are really polished in comparison too.
        
       | calamari4065 wrote:
       | I'm gonna complain here because I see gitlab employees
       | commenting.
       | 
       | It's a pretty bad look to claim that you offer a free version for
       | individuals when there's not actually _any_ way to get it from
       | gitlab.com. Your only option is an email capture for a free trial
       | of enterprise. Even the install docs redirect you to an email
       | capture.
       | 
       | Of course there is a way to install enterprise for free, and it's
       | full of nags and enterprise-only features that prompt you to
       | upgrade.
       | 
       | You have to already know what CE means and you have to find it
       | through a search engine. Even the install docs barely mention it.
       | I got all the way through the install process and configuration
       | before I realized I'd installed the enterprise version. I only
       | found CE by searching for ways to hide the enterprise upgrade
       | nags.
       | 
       | It's an extremely bad look, and people like me who care about
       | privacy and open source are gonna be turned away. I explicitly
       | decided against gitlab for this reason. I only came back because
       | the other options are worse.
       | 
       | I get wanting to promote the paid offering, but completely
       | burying the actually-free version and _only_ offering an
       | enterprise trial behind an email capture is pretty hostile. It 's
       | against the spirit of FOSS and I'm very disappointed.
        
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       (page generated 2023-12-08 23:02 UTC)