[HN Gopher] 5Ghoul: Unleashing Chaos on 5G Edge Devices
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       5Ghoul: Unleashing Chaos on 5G Edge Devices
        
       Author : rho138
       Score  : 113 points
       Date   : 2023-12-08 09:51 UTC (13 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (asset-group.github.io)
 (TXT) w3m dump (asset-group.github.io)
        
       | jruohonen wrote:
       | Seems bad enough, although most seem plain DoS. Even with that,
       | the fun may start soon and continue for a long time because most
       | of these are never patched. (That said, I didn't read close
       | enough to deduce how realistic exploitation is.)
        
       | osy wrote:
       | They are all denial of service bugs. I.e. crashes/hangs. No
       | remote code execution or disclosure of sensitive data.
       | 
       | Glad they were able to figure out the branding though.
        
         | bryancoxwell wrote:
         | > No [...] disclosure of sensitive data.
         | 
         | Not directly, but downgrading to LTE would almost certainly
         | force a UE to expose its IMSI at least.
        
           | gafage wrote:
           | You don't need a baseband exploit for that, just a jammer.
        
         | zapcto wrote:
         | > At least two other vulnerabilities are not disclosed yet due
         | to confidentiality.
        
         | jdiff wrote:
         | > Glad they were able to figure out the branding though.
         | 
         | That's pretty obviously something someone threw together in a
         | few minutes after grabbing a few [0] random images from the
         | internet. This isn't one of those exploit sites with more
         | effort poured into marketing than the exploits themselves.
         | 
         | [0] https://www.flaticon.com/free-icon/ghost_1227567
        
         | coldpie wrote:
         | The vulnerability branding trend is stupid, but I'm not sure
         | it's worse for communicating what you're talking about than
         | "CVE-2023-129038, 109239, and 120993" or "Those 5G
         | vulnerabilities from uh I think 2022 or 2023? No not those, the
         | other ones." Is there a better method?
        
           | fragmede wrote:
           | I don't think it's stupid because I can't, off the top of my
           | head, tell you the CVE number for Heartbleed, despite being
           | very involved with it for a couple of weeks.
           | 
           | Heartbleed I remember, along with Spectre/Meltdown, but I
           | couldn't name the weak exploits that turn out to be nothing
           | burgers. Log4j could have used a brand though, imo.
        
             | andrewxdiamond wrote:
             | How often do you need CVE numbers while simultaneously
             | being unable to google for the CVE number?
        
         | fulafel wrote:
         | They observed just crashes and they didn't try to research
         | exploitability. Absent more details, and knowing the usual
         | exploitability distribution of C crash bugs, this would seem in
         | doubt still.
        
       | snvzz wrote:
       | Proprietary, audit-unfriendly blobs.
       | 
       | It should be no surprise the code is crap quality, like the fw in
       | those Polish trains, although those had malware to boot.
       | 
       | And then, the protocols themselves are encumbered. GSM is a
       | disaster in general.
        
         | cogman10 wrote:
         | I hate that this is status quo for mobile hardware. And almost
         | certainly just to enforce artificial support boundaries to sell
         | more hardware.
        
           | hedora wrote:
           | It also enables a lot of surveillance and prevents innovation
           | in cell phone business models. Imagine what things would be
           | like if you could connect any compatible device to the phone
           | network for the same price.
           | 
           | The land line network used to work like the cell network does
           | today. Early home computer networks, and then later, home
           | internet were enabled by the court ruling that said the phone
           | company couldn't block you from plugging modems in (or charge
           | more for the same copper wire if you did plug a modem in).
           | 
           | California network neutrality laws supposedly ban
           | discrimination against devices as well as against web sites,
           | but it's either unenforced, or there is a loophole.
        
             | cduzz wrote:
             | So -- to a large degree you're right.
             | 
             | But also, with the history of actually open protocols such
             | as SMTP, the opportunity for abuse is enormous. The mobile
             | phone system is abused right now by manufacturers, vendors,
             | and "the surveillance state", but being open may just end
             | up with us in a state where all that is true _and_ there 's
             | a limitless slurry of effluent from semi-anonymous bad
             | faith actors.
        
               | cogman10 wrote:
               | SMTP has no authentication, authorization, or encryption
               | built in. GSM and the verizon standard do. SMTP abuse is
               | entirely down to you being able to fire and forget a
               | message without any sort of acceptance criteria for
               | downstream systems.
               | 
               | Anyone abusing the mobile network runs the risk of their
               | provider pulling the plug and disabling their access.
        
               | hedora wrote:
               | I think Signaling System 7 (what the phone networks use)
               | might be the only widely-used communication protocol
               | that's more open to abuse than SMTP.
               | 
               | With SS7, not only can you spoof any phone number, but
               | you can cause the other end of the network connection to
               | wire money without getting their prior authorization!
               | 
               | This is improved somewhat by STIR/SHAKEN, but, even with
               | that, the state of the art is worse than SMTP.
        
             | gruez wrote:
             | > Imagine what things would be like if you could connect
             | any compatible device to the phone network for the same
             | price.
             | 
             | Can't you already do that today? Just swap your sim card.
        
               | ksjskskskkk wrote:
               | you are way out of date on how bad things are.
               | 
               | just moving sim card to another phone will completely
               | block you any access until you "reactivate" in the
               | majority of telcos around the world.
        
               | gruez wrote:
               | >just moving sim card to another phone will completely
               | block you any access until you "reactivate" in the
               | majority of telcos around the world.
               | 
               | Mind listing those countries? One source[1] for the US
               | says that statement is only true for 1 of the 3 major
               | telecoms. One of the other two requires an approved
               | device to activate the sim, but otherwise doesn't care,
               | and the other doesn't care as long as the device supports
               | VoLTE.
               | 
               | [1] https://prepaid-data-sim-
               | card.fandom.com/wiki/United_States#...
        
       | neverrroot wrote:
       | Happy to see these things getting more attention, they are a
       | critical part of the modern mobile devices.
        
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       (page generated 2023-12-08 23:01 UTC)