[HN Gopher] How the first gen iPod was reverse engineered to run...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       How the first gen iPod was reverse engineered to run Rockbox
        
       Author : Wowfunhappy
       Score  : 127 points
       Date   : 2023-12-07 14:23 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (mastodon.social)
 (TXT) w3m dump (mastodon.social)
        
       | uticus wrote:
       | > Now the exploit was rewritten to read memory, and _blink_ out
       | the contents using the LCD backlight. A LEGO construction was
       | built and a webcam would register the binary stream of a few
       | megabytes of memory contents. Slooooow.
       | 
       | It both amazes me and cracks me up how exploits are accomplished.
       | Given enough time and determination...
        
         | HumblyTossed wrote:
         | It's really cool how they did this and not to diminish it in
         | any way, but this is really a form of bit banging that a lot of
         | devs already understand how to do.
        
         | echelon_musk wrote:
         | You would probably appreciate this clip [0] from the AMC show
         | Halt and Catch Fire where the character reads out the entire
         | firmware from an IBM PC using lights.
         | 
         | [0] https://youtube.com/watch?v=jSZwtrnKxf4
        
       | bobchadwick wrote:
       | Awesome story. I absolutely loved using Rockbox on my iRiver
       | H320. I think I still have it kicking around somewhere.
        
       | OfSanguineFire wrote:
       | Fond memories of running Rockbox on my iPod Video. Today, like
       | many, I want to get away from my smartphone that only distracts
       | me, and I wish I had kept my old iPod and upgraded its storage to
       | flash. I wonder what battery availability is like now.
       | 
       | One of the many disappointing aspects of the PinePhone is that it
       | would often stutter playing FLACs, something that Rockbox on
       | weaker hardware never did.
        
         | oaththrowaway wrote:
         | I actually just bought a 6th gen ipod classic. Converted it to
         | flash and put a new battery in. It's definitely an experience,
         | but it's been a fun ride so far
        
         | kayodelycaon wrote:
         | I actually have a solution for this if you have an old apple
         | device handy. You can load a profile on it using Apple
         | Configurator 2 that disables web browsing and restricts which
         | apps can be run. (I seem to remember this working without
         | needing a business account.)
         | 
         | I've got some old devices locked into single app mode this way.
        
         | asciimov wrote:
         | You can find batteries online for under $20. They aren't too
         | difficult to replace if you are patient and take your time.
         | (Easier on 5th gen and earlier iPods). You can even order
         | larger sized batteries if you free up some space with a flash
         | upgrade.
         | 
         | Only big issue with replacement batteries is their quality.
         | None of them will be as high quality as original Apple
         | batteries.
        
           | keyringlight wrote:
           | One thing I'd advise from my experience a few months ago
           | upgrading my 6th gen classic, take your time and be careful
           | getting the right parts. Dimensions matter when it's getting
           | crammed into a case, and for however much I'm not thrilled
           | about apple using their own connectors or needing their
           | software, I appreciate their physical design is elegant for
           | working with their own parts - there's nothing wasted.
           | 
           | The iFlash converter I used was for a single SD card, I was
           | only planning on putting in a single SD card so that's all I
           | got as it was the cheapest, and why not get a big huge
           | battery. However, the SD card slot is taller off the PCB than
           | a microSD slot and iFlash only use them on the multi-card
           | JBOD adapters, that makes it conflict with the larger battery
           | if I wanted to keep the slim casing. So then the options are
           | to get a different iFlash, get a different battery that
           | doesn't go into the SD card area, or as I did a new 'fat'
           | 160GB case.
        
         | dabluecaboose wrote:
         | I'd highly recommend Elite Obsolete Electronics [1] for anyone
         | who is interested in buying or repairing iPods nowadays. I
         | found my brother's old iPod Video in my desk about a year ago
         | and have been using it as a music player using parts and
         | upgrades I sourced from eoe.
         | 
         | They even have see-through faceplates and colored backplates,
         | for those of us still nostalgic for late-90s early-00s see-
         | through electronics in funky colors!
         | 
         | [1] https://eoe.works/
        
       | miki123211 wrote:
       | Rockbox was definitely life-changing software for me. I was so
       | proud when I first managed to get it installed, at the age of 10
       | if that. I got a Sansa Clip Plus for about $25, an affordable
       | price, even at that age, and Rockbox made it talk. Similar
       | devices directly aimed at the blind marked are more expensive at
       | least by an order of magnitude. It has served me well for years,
       | up until 2016 or so, when I finally bit the bullet and switched
       | over to listening on a smartphone full time. I definitely have
       | very fond memories of generating audiobooks on my computer with
       | text-to-speech software to play them later on the Sansa, though.
        
         | gtroja wrote:
         | I loved the sansa so much. I miss them
        
         | greatquux wrote:
         | rockbox + sansa clip at the gym + live jamband shows were the
         | best. rockbox made it easy to just throw stuff on and play from
         | a folder, no worrying about a "database" or how the mp3 tags
         | would be interpreted or sorted, just put them in alpha order
         | and you're good. and it did gapless mp3 with ease, it was so
         | awesome!
        
         | TheEaterOfSouls wrote:
         | Similar experience here. I grabbed a few Clip Zip/Plus players
         | in 2015 because I figured they'd get harder and harder to find
         | (prices were ridiculous) and might still use one for
         | music/audiobooks if it weren't for the fact that I pretty much
         | exclusively use bluetooth now. They were fast, had amazing
         | battery life, and just did what they did really well. Maybe I'm
         | just "doing something wrong" (I've never made real use of a
         | streaming service, strip my audiobooks of DRM and play them in
         | a media player rather than a dedicated app etc) but the modern
         | phone experience just seems like a step backward when it comes
         | to this.
        
         | rendleflag wrote:
         | 20-some odd years ago I added the initial bookmarking feature
         | to Rockbox. None the MP3 players at the time targeted audiobook
         | users so it wasn't a feature you could find on the market. With
         | Rockbox, I just added it. Good times.
        
       | kadoban wrote:
       | I _still_ use Rockbox. The UI and performance is just really
       | good. Probably doesn't hurt that it was one of the first pieces
       | of software I ever contributed to (I only wrote a plugin/game,
       | but it was still extremely satisfying), so I have a lot of fond
       | feelings for it.
       | 
       | It's gotten hard to find decent players that support it though. I
       | hope one still exists to buy when my current one dies someday.
        
         | tsujamin wrote:
         | Likewise, RockBox is the only thing I've run my my current iPod
         | Classic.
         | 
         | The first time I ever used Linux/gcc as a kid was changing the
         | rockbox bootloader to boot rockbox by default on an iPod nano
        
         | dabluecaboose wrote:
         | > The UI and performance is just really good.
         | 
         | The performance is fantastic, but if you're installing it on an
         | iPod let's not kid ourselves: It's clunky and awkward in
         | comparison to the stock OS.
         | 
         | I've tried to use the in-built tools to fix it as much as
         | possible, such as hiding the "file browser" from the main page.
         | Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be any way to rename
         | "Database" to "Music" without recompiling the whole thing,
         | which is what the cranky old guard seem to suggest for any
         | minor UX suggestion on the forums.
        
           | kadoban wrote:
           | Maybe I just have different needs. All I ever want is to go
           | in, pick an album or two, and hit play. I also use different
           | hardware but typically it's consistent across hardware with
           | similar number of buttons so I doubt that's much different.
        
             | dabluecaboose wrote:
             | Sure, I'm not saying it's _bad_ necessarily. And it 's
             | probably an entirely different story on other hardware. I'm
             | just frustrated that there's such a UX tradeoff on the iPod
             | when some TLC could make it flat-out superior to stock.
        
         | stefan_ wrote:
         | It's a shame that there is no steady hardware supply because
         | unfortunately they tend to die sooner or later (from humidity
         | or just the 3.5mm wearing out).
         | 
         | I do lots of listening on the phone nowadays of course but
         | nothing beats a simple throwaway mp3 player for sports, can
         | navigate them blind and get away with charging at most once a
         | week.
        
           | kadoban wrote:
           | Yeah, even on my desk I like having a dedicated little
           | device. It's easier to hit a phyical button than to hunt down
           | the right app on my phone.
        
             | dabluecaboose wrote:
             | One neat little quirk I've discovered about Rockbox on the
             | iPod (I'm assuming it works on other hardware) is that
             | while plugged into a computer it acts as an external HID:
             | You can play/pause, skip, previous, and change the volume
             | using it as a remote for your computer.
             | 
             | I've got plans to incorporate this to my office setup at
             | some point rather than using media keys and an encoder.
        
       | monocasa wrote:
       | The first gen iPod had an html viewer?
        
         | threeio wrote:
         | yah this is the part that most people who owned a 1st gen
         | spinwheel 5 button iPod g1 are trying to figure out ;) the only
         | logical spot I could think of is maybe the copyright/TOC item?
        
           | NoLsAfterMid wrote:
           | That wouldn't have been accessible via disk mode, though, so
           | you can't write to it without first rooting it.
        
         | MBCook wrote:
         | No, it didn't. I don't think.
         | 
         | I assume they were referring to the first version they got
         | Rockbox running on.
         | 
         | Does anyone have more details on that part of the story?
        
           | NoLsAfterMid wrote:
           | This pdf[0] shows an iPod can view notes, but says you need
           | to store them as a .txt.
           | 
           | This O'Reilly snippet[1] claims the feature wasn't
           | implemented until 2003, and even then explicitly states it
           | could only store plain text.
           | 
           | EDIT: The Notes app on the touch can import html files, but
           | that doesn't sync up with either rockbox or disk mode.
           | 
           | So I'm completely lost at what mechanic they're referring to.
           | Even if we assume that this was a txt file and not html, that
           | explicitly excludes the first gen iPod.
           | 
           | [0]: https://manuals.info.apple.com/MANUALS/0/MA282/en_US/iPo
           | d_cl...
           | 
           | [1]: https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/ipod-and-
           | itunes/0596008...
        
         | zerocrates wrote:
         | Reading down the thread they mention connecting to it over
         | USB... the first iPods only talked Firewire didn't they? I had
         | the 3rd gen (the odd-man-out design with the separate row of
         | touch sensitive buttons above the wheel) and I distinctly
         | remember the USB connection being a new and significant thing
         | on that model.
        
           | monocasa wrote:
           | Also, the first gen iPod didn't have encrypted firmware. It
           | was just an unencrypted blob on the disk.
        
       | chedabob wrote:
       | A later model had the firmware dumped via the piezo speaker
       | http://www.ipodlinux.org/stories/piezo/
        
         | rgovostes wrote:
         | The archived version has the images that are referred to in the
         | writing:
         | https://web.archive.org/web/20050828114013/http://www.ipodli...
         | 
         | I wonder why they could only use the piezo buzzer and not send
         | cleaner audio out of the headphone port.
        
           | monocasa wrote:
           | The piezo was probably pretty close to a gpio line. There's
           | normally a lot more setup involved getting true audio
           | hardware going.
        
       | tkiolp4 wrote:
       | Wish Apple reintroduced the iPod (classic, shuffle). Can't listen
       | music on my phone while running or playing sports (alone), it's
       | just too clumsy.
        
         | skydhash wrote:
         | There's a plethora of devices ranging from $25 to thousands for
         | playing exclusively music. The iPod was a nice piece of
         | hardware, but for sports, I would just buy a cheap one and put
         | my playlist on it.
        
           | shortrounddev2 wrote:
           | I got this little iPod nano-shaped Chinese Mp3 player[1]. It
           | plays music and uses .m3u playlist files that are easy enough
           | to edit on your PC. You can even set bookmarks in MP3 files
           | so if you have a large audiobook file, you can save your
           | place in it. It has some idiosyncrasies (such as not playing
           | songs in order by default; the alphabetization is weird) but
           | the killer features are: it's small, and I have literally
           | never once run out the battery. I do charge it occasionally,
           | but even after several hours of hiking, the battery indicator
           | is at 3/3 bars.
           | 
           | It takes a micro SD card so you can load music however you
           | want and then just plug the SD card in
           | 
           | [1] https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01LZVDMEL/ref=ppx_yo_d
           | t_b...
        
         | kstrauser wrote:
         | I feel like Apple Watch + AirPods is the spiritual successor.
         | That's my running and gym setup, anyway.
        
       | iAkashPaul wrote:
       | Whoa this took me back to using iPodWizard.net for all the
       | firmware changes I did to customize my iPod & the dual boot with
       | Rockbox was neat too!!
        
       | jihadjihad wrote:
       | Wow, Rockbox is one of those things I nearly completely forgot
       | about. What a great blast from the past!
       | 
       | I had a Toshiba Gigabeat [0] (even typing that out brings back
       | memories...) that I ran Rockbox on, I probably still have it
       | somewhere in the basement. The Gigabeat was sort of like a
       | precursor to the Microsoft Zune, it used this software that I
       | think got superseded by Zune and my model of Gigabeat didn't last
       | long once the Zune came out. Fun times.
       | 
       | 0: https://www.cnet.com/reviews/toshiba-gigabeat-s30-review/
        
       | 65 wrote:
       | My mind was a little less blown when I realized I misread Rockbox
       | in the title for Roblox.
        
       | firebot wrote:
       | I loved rockbox on my sansa e200 series. That tetris clone was
       | great.
        
       | mannyv wrote:
       | For everyone who loves the iPod, you've been able to convert
       | iPods to flash for years now via an adapter. Stick Rockbox on it
       | and you have an MP3 player than can hold > 1TB of data.
       | 
       | It's a bummer that iPod OS can't really handle more than 50k
       | tracks. For large collections the Rockbox UI sort of falls apart.
       | My goal at one point was to put my SBD collection on iPods, and
       | using the iPod OS I needed about 6 iPods. It would have been less
       | if the iPod could handle more tracks.
       | 
       | Maybe I'll take a hammer to Rockbox and start beating on it.
        
       | AussieWog93 wrote:
       | A bit off-topic, but Mastodon really is so much more pleasant to
       | browse through than Twitter (don't have an account with either).
       | 
       | You forget sometimes how bad the enshittification can get
        
       | craftkiller wrote:
       | My favorite was how the first android phone was rooted. They left
       | a root terminal running in the background, so for example if on
       | your homescreen you typed "reboot" and hit enter, your phone
       | would reboot. So all you needed to do was launch a telnet daemon
       | and you could telnet in and do whatever you wanted to the device.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2023-12-07 23:01 UTC)