[HN Gopher] Show HN: Recompyle - A JavaScript developer-friendly...
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       Show HN: Recompyle - A JavaScript developer-friendly console /
       debugger
        
       Hi HN, I'm Damien, the solo founder of Recompyle. Self-funded.  As
       a JavaScript developer, I have been annoyed by the console.log not
       being practical enough, and the debugger being 'too slow'. So I
       made Recompyle to fix that.  It's kind of a mix of the console and
       the debugger. Plus, some file parsing to automatically log the
       start of the functions of the files you are working on.
        
       Author : dam11
       Score  : 45 points
       Date   : 2023-12-07 14:05 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.recompyle.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.recompyle.com)
        
       | albertzeyer wrote:
       | The name sounds like a Python project.
        
         | Retr0id wrote:
         | This was my initial reaction too, especially since "Decompyle"
         | was a popular python bytecode decompiler ("was" because it
         | seems to have been superseded by pycdc at this point)
        
       | orng wrote:
       | I think you are sort of abusing the github logo above the "Closed
       | Source - for a sustainable business model" text. Most people
       | associate it with open source, it doesn't even make any sense
       | there!
        
         | foxbarrington wrote:
         | Agreed. Would make more sense with a red X over it.
        
         | zxt_tzx wrote:
         | Haha it's almost like the Stroop effect, where you print the
         | word "red" in blue ink instead of red ink.
         | 
         | I think you're solving a real pain point but to be honest I
         | watched the video a few times and have trouble understanding
         | how it works/differs from a regular debugger.
        
       | giancarlostoro wrote:
       | The trailer video needs narration and maybe some music, or at
       | least music with some text describing what you're showing.
        
       | jraph wrote:
       | > Closed Source
       | 
       | > For a sustainable business.
       | 
       | Especially when also associated with "Developer Friendly", seeing
       | "closed source" with "sustainable" hurts so bad. I hope it does
       | not persuade too many people. People should know that with open
       | source software, they can rely on it not to disappear overnight
       | if a company behind it vanishes. _This_ is sustainable.
       | 
       | I work for an open source company without VC money that has been
       | running for 20 years soon. They are ways to do open source and
       | sustainable at the same time.
        
         | pastacacioepepe wrote:
         | > People should know that with open source software, they can
         | rely on it not to disappear overnight if a company behind it
         | vanishes.
         | 
         | I've seen so many OSS projects abandoned because the
         | maintainers couldn't find the time, given they had to work
         | full-time on something else that would allow them to pay the
         | bills.
        
           | keb_ wrote:
           | I've seen the same, but with closed-source projects, and then
           | there is zero hope of it ever being revived because no one
           | can fork it. :(
           | 
           | At least with OSS, you have the power to patch it and
           | recompile yourself.
        
           | jraph wrote:
           | Of course. You still need to make your project sustainable in
           | some way.
           | 
           | You can sell support. You can sell consulting. You can do it
           | the curl way and make yourself hired for developing your
           | useful thing full time.
           | 
           | Not saying it's easy. Building a product and selling it in a
           | way or another is not easy.
           | 
           | As a sibling comment say, at least the source is here, if
           | you've come to rely on this unmaintained piece of code at
           | least something is possible.
           | 
           | But I was mostly reacting to the association of "Closed
           | Source" and "For sustainable business", like if sustainable
           | business was not possible with open source. It is. Many
           | companies succeed in this.
        
             | pjmlp wrote:
             | Doesn't work for tons of domains, e.g. native desktop
             | software, games, good developer tooling like Enterprise
             | Architect or OutSystems.
        
               | jraph wrote:
               | > native desktop software
               | 
               | But it can. I mentioned Igalia and MediaInfo, and
               | developed on this at
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38556450#38557836
               | 
               | I don't really know about games and good developer
               | tooling, so I can't speak for these domains. Games are
               | probably particularly tough. But I really think people
               | may pay you for implementing features they need, buy
               | support and for doing custom dev work. That last one
               | takes your time out of your main product though, but if
               | you manage to do custom work on top of your main product,
               | it can still be a good deal.
        
               | pjmlp wrote:
               | Regular people, that already do pirate software a lot,
               | see open source as free beer, and won't pay for any kind
               | of support, rather have family members as usual.
               | 
               | With commercial desktop software at least there is the
               | shadow of the law, thus some companies do survive despite
               | piracy.
               | 
               | Hence why digital stores are so beloved by companies
               | selling desktop like applications.
               | 
               | I bet there is hardly any company sustaining their
               | business from sales on F-Droid.
        
         | lolinder wrote:
         | I'm torn on this. My absolute favorite piece of developer
         | tooling is the JetBrains IDEs, which far outstrip all fully
         | open source alternatives. They're partially open source, but
         | the reason why JetBrains can make such great tools _is_ because
         | their model allows them to pay developers to work on their
         | tools full time.
         | 
         | I love open source, but OP isn't wrong to decide to prioritize
         | building a sustainable business over releasing their code.
         | 
         | Whether you personally prefer the guarantees that FOSS provides
         | or the benefits that having salaried employees working on the
         | project full time provides is a personal decision.
        
           | jraph wrote:
           | But I'm paid full time by my open source company, like my 60
           | colleagues, and the stuff we build is fully open source,
           | except for custom, consulting projects based on this open
           | source software we build.
           | 
           | Open core is at least something (and I'm forced to agree with
           | you, IntelliJ mostly kills everything, I capitulated and
           | ended up adopting the community version recently against
           | other IDEs, initially for its Java debugger) but you can pay
           | devs full time with completely open source stuff.
           | 
           | Companies are more than willing to pay for support,
           | consulting or even paid pre-built binaries that come with a
           | bit of support, when it's more convenient.
           | 
           | Again, not saying it's easy, and each project is different,
           | but that's something possible.
        
             | lolinder wrote:
             | What company are you working for? What is the business
             | model?
             | 
             | Most successful open source companies I can think of are
             | server-side applications or Linux distros, where the
             | company sells support or hosting. I'm not sure how that
             | would work for a desktop app.
        
               | jraph wrote:
               | > where the company sells support or hosting
               | 
               | Yep, you got this. We also sell open source extensions
               | (yep, you could build and download the code, and strip
               | the license handling, but somehow companies will pay for
               | the convenience of having the install and upgrade done
               | automatically - they also know that they support the
               | company behind the thing they use, in a way that can be
               | easily justified to their accounting department, with an
               | invoice, and get some support hours included, which they
               | like. Paying for something that is paid is easier than
               | donating!). And we also do (a lot of) consulting.
               | 
               | For desktop applications, it might be harder indeed.
               | Though JetBrains does have an extension store and could
               | do the same, and also sell support.
               | 
               | Not sure about the consulting, but why not? Maybe they
               | could sell some of the expertise they have on actually a
               | big number of topics. I'm sure companies would be eager
               | to pay them to implement feature in their IDEs they need,
               | or to build components specific to their setup /
               | projects. I'm discovering that companies will spend money
               | on all sorts of things, I'm actually somewhat surprised
               | by this.
               | 
               | Igalia [3], for instance, does this with browsers. They
               | sell consulting around browsers and also get paid to
               | contribute features in the big engines.
               | 
               | I mentioned curl earlier, Daniel gets paid for doing
               | commercial support on curl [1]:
               | 
               | > I work for wolfSSL from home doing commercial curl
               | support. If you need help to fix curl problems, fix your
               | app's use of libcurl, add features to curl, fix curl
               | bugs, optimize your curl use or libcurl education for
               | your developers... Then I'm your man. Contact us!
               | 
               | There's also MediaInfo [2], an open source tool to get
               | all sorts of information on videos. They get paid to
               | implement features and to do consulting.
               | 
               | I'm sure you can sell support / consulting for all sorts
               | of things.
               | 
               | > What company are you working for?
               | 
               | XWiki.
               | 
               | [1] https://daniel.haxx.se/
               | 
               | [2] https://mediaarea.net/en/MediaInfo
               | 
               | [3] https://www.igalia.com/
        
         | no_wizard wrote:
         | there are different classes of this.
         | 
         | I think the fact there are already an abundant amount of _free_
         | and _good_ tools for debugging JavaScript - many of which you
         | don 't even need extensions to use, its simply knowing how to
         | get around the builtin debugger and inspector - make _this
         | class of product_ harder to make money off of.
         | 
         | Something like say a database is much harder to replicate and
         | has a very high barrier to entry by comparison and have more
         | verticals for actually acquiring and charging customers of the
         | software
         | 
         | Neither of these are judgements for or against a thing, simply
         | wanted to highlight the realities.
         | 
         | What I will say is this makes the barrier of entry for
         | something like this _very high_ before someone is willing to
         | open their wallet.
        
       | majestic5762 wrote:
       | You just pretty print console logs at breakpoint location. IDE
       | extension + some web app. Why closed source lol. I won't pay for
       | it, could build my own. Sorry but you first need open source
       | traction and then try to sell to enterprises. Good luck
        
         | replwoacause wrote:
         | Not every project needs to be open source. It's his work and
         | his business, if he wants it closed source that's perfectly
         | fine.
        
       | chii wrote:
       | Since it's a paid product, i would like to shill for an open
       | source product that performs a similar function:
       | https://github.com/djblue/portal
       | 
       | Unfortunately, it is only usable for a clojure(script) code base,
       | as it requires a REPL. For a live demo of what it does:
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tj-iyDo3bq0 , or just explore the
       | UI and see for yourself https://djblue.github.io/portal/
        
       | the_linux_lich wrote:
       | The audacity, charging for a service which you know doesn't work
       | everywhere lol
        
         | TheRealPomax wrote:
         | Not all that different from paying for a "Only works on Mac"
         | app, but it does seem odd to charge this much for something
         | that isn't done yet. This is open/closed beta territory, not
         | "charging money before it's even ready" territory.
        
       | keb_ wrote:
       | It's an interesting idea, but a few points:
       | 
       | * Your documentation states "Recompyle will not work for every
       | project right now. It's a work in progress." Maybe an open/closed
       | beta phase is appropriate right now instead of charging $33 for
       | something that may not even work?
       | 
       | * I may be missing some functionality, but $33/year/user seems
       | steep for something that I think I can emulate by just setting
       | breakpoints normally and manually resuming process execution in
       | Chrome Debugger.
       | 
       | * Your site seems to imply that Open Source projects cannot be
       | sustainable businesses, but we see this all the time (Supabase,
       | Aseprite, Miniflux). I would remove that from your site anyway
       | because it's not exactly a selling point.
        
         | lolinder wrote:
         | > Your site seems to imply that Open Source projects cannot be
         | sustainable businesses, but we see this all the time (Supabase,
         | Aseprite, Miniflux). I would remove that from your site anyway
         | because it's not exactly a selling point.
         | 
         | Notably, 2/3 of your examples are server-side applications
         | where the product is hosting, and Aseprite isn't open source,
         | it's source-available.
         | 
         | In general, businesses around open source tend to either be
         | selling hosting or support. For a client-side application,
         | hosting isn't an option, and I also doubt that selling support
         | packages will work for something small like developer tooling--
         | the examples I can think of of client-side sustainable FOSS
         | businesses are all Linux distros.
         | 
         | Do you have any other examples of client-side FOSS businesses
         | that I'm missing?
         | 
         | Edit: one strategy I missed is open core, like JetBrains, but
         | since that's a hybrid model I think that's actually evidence in
         | favor of OP's claim that FOSS is hard to sustain.
        
           | jraph wrote:
           | > Do you have any other examples of client-side FOSS
           | businesses that I'm missing?
           | 
           | Just thought about Linphone. (in addition to those I
           | mentioned in my other comments)
           | 
           | https://linphone.org/
        
           | keb_ wrote:
           | My point was to counter this idea that open-source ===
           | unprofitable, but another example is Mindustry
           | https://github.com/Anuken/Mindustry.
        
             | lolinder wrote:
             | Oh, that's an interesting one! Available on Steam but also
             | open source.
        
       | lolinder wrote:
       | You're getting a lot of hot takes, which is too bad!
       | 
       | For my part, I've been trying to come up with something
       | constructive to say but I'm having a rather hard time
       | understanding what this project is, so I guess that's my
       | feedback. The landing page tells me almost nothing about why I'd
       | pay for a third-party debugger, and the docs on GitHub are only a
       | little bit better and not super persuasive.
       | 
       | Maybe I'm just not the target audience, but I think you need to
       | really capture the pain points you're solving before showing me
       | screenshots and videos of how you've solved them. As it is all
       | I'm seeing is a developer tools window with a slightly different
       | layout than Firefox/Chrome.
        
         | sesm wrote:
         | Looks like an alternative client for chrome://inspect and works
         | on top of the same protocol (you need to launch with '--
         | inspect' flag).
        
           | vmfunction wrote:
           | Or the debug in vscode, then again in vscode you can edit the
           | code also. Maybe this console has VM binding. Just feel like
           | it should just be a vscode plugin.
        
         | solardev wrote:
         | > Maybe I'm just not the target audience, but I think you need
         | to really capture the pain points you're solving before showing
         | me screenshots and videos of how you've solved them. As it is
         | all I'm seeing is a developer tools window with a slightly
         | different layout than Firefox/Chrome.
         | 
         | Same here. I watched the video and couldn't quite figure out
         | what it's trying to show. It just looks like it's logging
         | requests similar to the inspector or the debugger. That's cool,
         | but how is it different or better?
        
       | progx wrote:
       | In dev-mode is use a separate monitor that logs human friendly
       | output. That output is generated by frontend and backend and
       | transfered via socket (errors too). I run automatically on save
       | only that part of the app, that i am working on, normally with a
       | test.
       | 
       | Only in a few special cases i need to debug and traverse errors
       | step by step.
       | 
       | I can not understand why people use complicated bloated tools, in
       | which you must click so many times until you get all needed data.
       | Good log output is for me the best solution.
        
       | user3939382 wrote:
       | I see in the product demo he's debugging from WebStorm with
       | Chrome. The problem I very much need solved here is that if I set
       | a breakpoint, and _stop execution_ Chrome has to be closed and
       | completely relaunched to hit a break point again. Hitting Stop
       | somehow disconnects Chrome and Storm in a way that refresh does
       | not fix or reconnect. It 's extremely annoying and tedious.
        
         | no_wizard wrote:
         | They used to have a web extension for Firefox and Chrome that
         | let you re-connect by clicking on it. I know they deprecated
         | that in favor of what they do now (which I think is partially
         | facitilated by changes in how extensions are handled by both
         | those respective browsers) but I do hit this issue more than
         | I'd like as well
        
       | agosta wrote:
       | "It's possible" and "it's easy" to make money in open source are
       | two wildly different things. Pretty sure the creator of this
       | knows it's possible to make money in open source but that
       | charging $33 per year is also probably not going to cover all
       | their expenses. They've done a ton of work (they made 2 IDE
       | extensions!) and have likely been paid very little for it so far.
       | If it's not for you then don't buy it but don't try to tell
       | someone they can't charge peanuts selling something they've spent
       | a ton of time making. 33 a year is practically nothing. Sometimes
       | I swear this whole industry has been spoiled by the gifts of free
       | labor
        
         | rafaelgoncalves wrote:
         | I think the problem here is not the price but charging for what
         | seems a personal project or a product that isn't even finished.
         | Why someone have to pay to test if this works? Don't get any
         | traction...
        
           | agosta wrote:
           | Loads of people buy the beta versions of games. Others wait
           | for the thing to be finished. It's an MVP and whether people
           | buy is some of the most valuable feedback this dev is going
           | to get.
           | 
           | I understand complaining about price if it's truly
           | outrageous, but demanding it be Open Source (which is most
           | often just dog whistling for it to be free) is peak
           | entitlement.
        
             | rafaelgoncalves wrote:
             | I can see your points and think they are legit. Only think
             | there are more alternatives to get real feedback than
             | selling, why not choose a closed beta like others comments
             | said? This could be much more productive.
        
               | agosta wrote:
               | I agree with that. I'm not sure on the specifics of this
               | rollout but I think it's all still pretty risk free -
               | it's got a 7 day free trial. If it's not up to par, one
               | can cancel.
        
       | cxr wrote:
       | Your screencast commits the sin of trying to fly through a
       | demonstration from a script that you have access to but no one
       | watching does. It's not clear what you're doing or what the
       | significance of any given thing on screen is (and what things
       | shown on the screen are insignificant). I'm at 0:24 of 1:32, I've
       | skipped back 4 times to see what's going on and what you're
       | trying to communicate. If you don't want to record audio to
       | narrate what you're doing, that's fine, but go have a look at the
       | Primitive Technology channel and take note of how he uses
       | captions for a non-existent audio track. Copy that, if nothing
       | else; the video as-is is ineffective--not quite useless but very
       | close.
        
         | replwoacause wrote:
         | Not a JS dev...but looks like he is just triggering breakpoints
         | in the video? But yeah, it's mostly useless. Maybe the tool is
         | good though, can't really tell.
        
       | Sytten wrote:
       | If there is a price, people will pay. Donation based oss just
       | doesn't work except in a very few exceptions and specially not
       | for software self-hosted. I support your statement on non-open
       | source for sustainability. This is the same stance we took when
       | we started Caido.
       | 
       | You could use some better marketing though, I am a web Dev and I
       | didnt understand the value proposition.
        
       | mt_ wrote:
       | Closed source. Easy skip sir.
        
         | replwoacause wrote:
         | Nah. Not everyone is an OSS zealot. If a tool works for me I
         | don't give a shit if it is open or closed source.
        
       | themikesanto wrote:
       | I don't think I would ever use this project, and I especially
       | would not pay for it.
       | 
       | From scanning the website and documentation, it seems like a less
       | useful debugger than currently available open source tools. I
       | really have no idea what this project is trying to achieve.
       | 
       | and then there's this:
       | 
       | > Yes you need an account to use recompyle.
       | 
       | > The account is used to validate the license. Nothing more.
       | 
       | > The only thing send to our server is a hash of your "machineId"
       | 
       | > The App run on you computer, your code is private and not send
       | to our servers.
       | 
       | > No analytics or error tracking.
       | 
       | You expect me to simply trust your word that this debugger won't
       | do anything nefarious? Not a chance.
        
       | mcluck wrote:
       | I write web code all day every day which makes me think I'm the
       | target audience. I have no idea what this does beyond the built
       | in dev tools. From what I gleamed from the video, it looks like
       | it might make it easier to setup watch variables?
        
       | rglover wrote:
       | This is rad, Damien. Great work.
       | 
       | Can you send an email to ryan.glover@cheatcode.co (didn't see
       | anything listed on the site)? Want to discuss how I could make
       | this work with Joystick [1].
       | 
       | [1] https://github.com/cheatcode/joystick
        
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