[HN Gopher] Until the 14th century women dominated the field of ...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Until the 14th century women dominated the field of beer brewing
        
       Author : beardyw
       Score  : 97 points
       Date   : 2023-12-06 11:28 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (daily.jstor.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (daily.jstor.org)
        
       | thriftwy wrote:
       | ...in a 500 mile radius blurb around Blue Banana.
        
       | DeathArrow wrote:
       | I'm sure men dominated the field of beer drinking.
        
       | OfSanguineFire wrote:
       | The link makes the claim that only small ale was drunk in
       | medieval times because water was considered unhealthy, but I
       | thought that was an urban myth?
       | 
       | From the depiction of the home as the woman's sphere in medieval
       | Northern European literature, it isn't surprising that brewing
       | was women's work along with cooking in general.
        
         | tgv wrote:
         | https://history.howstuffworks.com/medieval-people-drink-beer...
         | 
         | https://gizmodo.com/no-medieval-people-didnt-drink-booze-to-...
         | 
         | No idea what the concensus is, but it also doesn't make sense
         | that everyone drank beer instead of water. Young children
         | almost certainly didn't drink beer. And I expect it to have
         | been out of reach for large parts of the population: cost and
         | availability of ingredients.
        
           | OfSanguineFire wrote:
           | I specifically said small beer, and that is something that
           | has been commonly served to children in various places even
           | into modern times. Your claim that beer was too costly also
           | seems to be based on how beer is made and sold today: back
           | then, beer was made without hops, and grain was available to
           | medieval peasants because they were growing it themselves. A
           | sort of beer was drunk by the working classes in Ancient
           | Egypt, it has never been an elite drink.
        
             | User23 wrote:
             | Many people don't realize that yeast leavened bread is
             | about 1% alcohol and as high as 2%. Obviously we let
             | children eat it. Why would small beer at the same
             | percentage be a problem?
        
               | elcomet wrote:
               | Alcohol evaporates when the bread cooks
        
               | jameshart wrote:
               | Seems like the consensus is that some remains.
               | 
               | A lot of online sources cite a 1926 study that said bread
               | can have 'up to 1.9%' alcohol content. This more recent
               | study from 1998 suggests that 0.4-0.6% ethanol by mass is
               | more typical: https://auventdunord.ca/wp-
               | content/uploads/2018/05/food-alco...
        
               | User23 wrote:
               | Some of it, but not all of it or even the majority[1].
               | For reference some breads bake in as little as 20 minutes
               | so a fair bit of alcohol remains.
               | 
               | [1] https://www.isu.edu/news/2019-fall/no-worries-the-
               | alcohol-bu...
        
               | groestl wrote:
               | And a very ripe banana can have an ABV value of 0.4%.
        
               | jameshart wrote:
               | That sugar in fruit gradually turns into alcohol should
               | not be a surprise to anyone. _Really_ 'ripe' grape juice
               | can have an ABV of over 14% :)
        
               | groestl wrote:
               | ;) It hardly resembles the fruit anymore though :)
        
           | rsynnott wrote:
           | AIUI consensus is that people did drink water but also quite
           | a lot of beer.
           | 
           | "Young children almost certainly didn't drink beer." - wanna
           | bet?
           | 
           | > In his A Plan for the Conduct of Female Education, in
           | Boarding Schools published 1797, writer Erasmus Darwin agreed
           | that "For the drink of the more robust children water is
           | preferable, and for the weaker ones, small beer ..."
        
             | mewpmewp2 wrote:
             | To be honest if you are unaware of the bad effects of beer
             | or how addiction works in general, it seems like a thing
             | that you would get so easily addicted to.
             | 
             | If I had a different knowledge set and easy access to beer,
             | perhaps I would just drink it daily.
             | 
             | Without water I imagine there are going to be massive
             | hangovers though.
        
               | 7thaccount wrote:
               | I assume these beers were pretty low ABV. Addiction to
               | alcohol probably was pretty common and perhaps preferable
               | to dysentery.
        
               | 878654Tom wrote:
               | Yes, this is called Small Beer or Table Beer in Belgium.
               | It goes as low as 1% and was very normal in schools and
               | at homes before clean water was a common thing.
               | 
               | It still is a very popular beer to drink while you eat
               | but children don't consume it anymore. My father did tell
               | me that when he was younger (1970-1980) they still drank
               | it at the table in his school.
        
               | kwhitefoot wrote:
               | I don't know when the rules changed but when I was a
               | child in England in the sixties anything less than 2%
               | could be sold to anyone, it wasn't regarded as properly
               | alcoholic. The brand I remember is Top Deck Shandy, half
               | and half lemonade and light beer.
        
               | bell-cot wrote:
               | The quoted bit specifies _small_ beer.
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_beer#History
        
               | wongarsu wrote:
               | Common beers back then were very different from today's
               | beer. Beer was more of a liquid meal, with lots of
               | calories and about half the alcohol content of a Coors
               | Light.
        
               | TSiege wrote:
               | Honestly that sounds kinda awesome to me. I'd love to try
               | it
        
           | VoodooJuJu wrote:
           | Young children did drink it, and it's still served to
           | children today in Finland:
           | https://www.brewingnordic.com/farmhouse-ales/small-beer-
           | call...
        
             | mewpmewp2 wrote:
             | I somewhat remember my parents offering me a drink to try
             | out when I was 6 or 7. Not sure if it's a made up hint of
             | memory.
             | 
             | It definitely wasn't something frequent or high dosage
             | though.
             | 
             | I actively started drinking with peers around the age of 12
             | - 14. That was in secrecy from parents though, asking
             | homeless to buy us the goods.
        
               | gostsamo wrote:
               | My parents definitely offered me alcohol when I was a
               | child. The hard alcohol was mostly to show me how it
               | burns the throat and not to try it, while beer was bitter
               | but okay for a sip or two to feel grownup. Alcohol also
               | had a medicinal use in the family, though I'm not sure
               | about the medicinal effect.
               | 
               | After I was 14 and more, alcohol was introduced on more
               | regular bases, but not with social pressure to drink,
               | just was available as an option.
               | 
               | Decades later, I'm just a social drinker.
        
               | kwhitefoot wrote:
               | I had essentially the same experience. I'm 67 now. My
               | grandmother used to give me a miniature of De Kuyper's
               | Cherry Brandy for Christmas from when I was six or seven,
               | I made it last until after New Year!
        
           | tokai wrote:
           | What a peak HN comment - authoritative _and_ wrong. Kids most
           | definitely did drink alcohol.
           | 
           | https://web.archive.org/web/20110306073320/http://digital.li.
           | ..
        
             | tengbretson wrote:
             | What was the authoritative part?
        
               | beastman82 wrote:
               | This. The irony is too much
        
               | OfSanguineFire wrote:
               | I assume the GP was chuckling at how the OP offered two
               | authoritative (well, not really) links to support a claim
               | in my top-level post, but then went on to make an
               | erroneous claim himself.
        
               | tokai wrote:
               | No not at all. Its is true and well documented claim that
               | people didn't drink alcohol at all times instead of
               | water. The links and what he is claiming is not
               | overlapping.
        
               | tokai wrote:
               | >certainly didn't drink beer
               | 
               | >out of reach for large parts of the population
               | 
               | Claims that the poster base on nothing at all, but still
               | claim it in a peremptory fashion.
        
               | tengbretson wrote:
               | > almost certainly
               | 
               | > I expect it to have been out of reach
               | 
               | Neither of these statements are claims at all.
        
           | CalRobert wrote:
           | And yet there are people alive today who enjoyed a glass of
           | wine as a schoolchild in France. https://www.snopes.com/fact-
           | check/french-children-wine-at-sc...
        
         | dmurray wrote:
         | > it isn't surprising that brewing was women's work along with
         | cooking in general.
         | 
         | What's interesting here is precisely that brewing beer was a
         | domestic job (and therefore women's work), in a way that baking
         | bread, for example, was not.
         | 
         | > most villages depended on local bakers to prepare bread ...
         | Most households alternated between making their own ale and
         | buying from and selling to neighbors
        
           | ecshafer wrote:
           | From my understanding, ovens were often large communal or
           | commercial ovens in the middle ages and renaissance periods.
           | The poor wouldn't have had an oven in their home.
        
           | globular-toast wrote:
           | > in a way that baking bread, for example, was not.
           | 
           | This probably just comes down to availability of equipment.
           | Bread making in the home has been common in places like
           | England and India for a long time. In places like Austria and
           | France the preference is for bread that is best from special
           | ovens that people don't have at home, but even there people
           | would make things like brioche at home.
        
       | tiahura wrote:
       | I had a little wife, the prettiest ever seen, She washed all the
       | dishes and kept the house clean. She went to the mill to fetch me
       | some flour, She brought it home in less than an hour. She baked
       | me my bread, she brewed me my beer, She sat by the fire and made
       | good cheer.
        
         | ConfusedDog wrote:
         | I had a little wife, and I am in jail. She didn't know how to
         | cook, nor did any chores. She went to the nail salon, and
         | brought a new fellow. She took my house, I drank in sorrow.
        
       | CalRobert wrote:
       | And we have them to thank for witches' hats!
       | 
       | """ They wore the tall, pointy hats so that their customers could
       | see them in the crowded marketplace. They transported their brew
       | in cauldrons. And those who sold their beer out of stores had
       | cats not as demon familiars, but to keep mice away from the
       | grain. Some argue that iconography we associate with witches,
       | from the pointy hat to the cauldron, originated from women
       | working as master brewers. """
       | 
       | https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/women-used-dominate-b...
        
         | felideon wrote:
         | Or not... see the editor's note.
        
           | CalRobert wrote:
           | Well that's what I get for remembering a thing I read a few
           | years back, googling for a source, and then not checking my
           | new source carefully.
        
         | sgt101 wrote:
         | I like to think that it was this thing:
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_hat
         | 
         | Maybe some ancient folk memory!!
        
         | duped wrote:
         | It's probably a mix of sources. Famously, Goya's _Witches
         | Flight_ (0) shows the three witches wearing the same hat
         | decorated with flames that Inquisitors forced their victims to
         | wear (1) (2) (the flames showing they were to be burned for not
         | repenting).
         | 
         | (0) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witches%27_Flight
         | 
         | (1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capirote
         | 
         | (2) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanbenito
        
       | cardanome wrote:
       | > "Ale was virtually the sole liquid consumed by medieval
       | peasants," writes Judith M. Bennett in a chapter in the edited
       | volume, Women and Work in Preindustrial Europe. "Water was
       | considered to be unhealthy, [so] each household required a large
       | and steady supply of this perishable item."
       | 
       | This myth again? You don't even need to know medieval history to
       | figure out it is bullshit.
       | 
       | Think about it logically, you can not brew bear from water that
       | is contaminated in the first place. Garbage in garbage out. If
       | you have a safe water source, well just drink water. Also, we are
       | talking about medieval beer with maybe 2 percent alcohol, how the
       | hell is that going to help? That percentage is way too low to do
       | any good.
       | 
       | Obviously people were mostly drinking water. I mean think of all
       | the calories, the logistics and all. It is true though that
       | households would brew their own bear for consumption. Export of
       | bear would develop in the late medieval period. It is also true,
       | that weak 2% ale was consumed a lot, just not as much a water.
       | 
       | I guess people just really like the idea of medieval people being
       | shitfaced all the time.
       | 
       | Edd: Also most places where not very densely populated, even
       | cities were not compared to modern time. So while water safety
       | was a concern, it was not as big as one might think.
        
         | giraffe_lady wrote:
         | The idea that people only drank beer because it was safe and
         | water wasn't is a myth, yes.
         | 
         | The idea that premodern and early modern people _considered_
         | water unsafe is not, though. You can see this view all over the
         | european primary record, and it 's very clear that in many
         | areas and for much of premodern history people _preferred_
         | fermented drinks when they had access to the choice.
         | 
         | > Think about it logically, you can not brew bear from water
         | that is contaminated in the first place.
         | 
         | This is also not strictly true, depending on what sort of
         | contamination you're talking about. Heavy metal or contemporary
         | chemical contamination won't be affected by the brewing
         | process, but it will kill parasites for example. Bacterial
         | contamination varies by the specifics and degree, but you may
         | be _better_ off having brewed it.
         | 
         | Securing clean springs and wells was a high priority for people
         | all through history. Brewing is part of a range of techniques
         | and technologies that were used to varying extents when they
         | weren't able to.
         | 
         | "They drank beer instead of water because it was safe" is a
         | myth but also so is "water was safe and there was no advantage
         | to drinking beer."
        
           | cardanome wrote:
           | No one is saying water was always safe, you are making a
           | straw man so you can do a both sides thing.
           | 
           | People where obviously worried about water safety, yes.
           | Fermented drinks are not guaranteed to be safe though. The 2%
           | isn't going to do much.
           | 
           | The brewing process helps a bit but you you can just boil
           | water after all.
           | 
           | The question is not whether water safety was a concern, it
           | certainly was but whether people brew beer MAINLY for safety
           | reasons. I think it is safe(!) to assume they brew beer
           | because they liked drinking bear.
        
             | mellinoe wrote:
             | > The brewing process helps a bit but you you can just boil
             | water after all.
             | 
             | Was this widely known?
        
               | lupusreal wrote:
               | No, not before Louis Pasteur. It's likely that people
               | knew brewed beverages were safer but didn't know why, and
               | didn't know they could skip most of the brewing process
               | and simply boil the water.
        
               | cardanome wrote:
               | They didn't knew about bacteria and wouldn't have had the
               | theory to explain why it would help.
               | 
               | Boiling water wasn't really that necessary because the
               | medieval period was sparsely populated and people had
               | access to safe water sources. I am sure they would have
               | figured out boiling water if their survival dependent on
               | it.
               | 
               | We know that People generally knew about basic hygiene
               | and applied it even if they lacked modern theory.
        
               | dragontamer wrote:
               | > They didn't knew about bacteria and wouldn't have had
               | the theory to explain why it would help.
               | 
               | That didn't stop say, the sterilization effects of silver
               | from being widely known and spread across myths.
               | 
               | Fewer people got sick when they drank from silver cups
               | and silver stuff. They didn't know a thing about
               | bacteria, but enough people drinking from enough
               | different cups and suddenly a pattern emerges that forms
               | the basis of a myth or legend.
               | 
               | > We know that People generally knew about basic hygiene
               | and applied it even if they lacked modern theory.
               | 
               | Soap and its effects to destroy common pathogens (viruses
               | and bacteria) wasn't known... but "Hygiene" became a
               | thing as early as 400BC Roman periods because of similar
               | patterns.
               | 
               | The theories we have today summarize centuries or
               | millennia of collective experience. Not the other way
               | around. We don't need to understand bacteria to discover
               | how useful soap, boiling, or silver/anti-bacterial
               | surfaces are. Instead, we use our knowledge of "silver
               | prevents sickness", "soap prevents sickness", and
               | "boiling prevents sickness" to help us discover a grand
               | theory of microorganisms / bacteria.
        
               | qwytw wrote:
               | Hippocrates did suggest this approach of purifying water
               | so at least educated doctors would've have certainly
               | known that. Also it's not exactly rocket science most
               | people would have probably understood that to some
               | extent. At least that boiling removes "bad" smells and
               | improves the taste (that's what Hippocrates said at
               | least, not how effective that is).
        
             | giraffe_lady wrote:
             | Since you can read my mind I don't think I have anything
             | else to contribute here.
        
             | dimask wrote:
             | > The 2% isn't going to do much.
             | 
             | 2% of what? If you mean alcohol, that is not how
             | fermentation works for preserving food/drinks.
             | 
             | Using beneficial/harmless cultures to outcompete harmful
             | microorganisms, which is how fermentation is used to
             | preserve food/drinks, has been the main way of preserving
             | food across cultures. Especially before fridge, canning and
             | and other modern industrial techniques have been possible.
             | Yeah I do not get the "beer instead of water" thing, but I
             | can imagine there could be a lot of situations that beer
             | could be important to have as a water source, like
             | traveling distances.
        
         | MathMonkeyMan wrote:
         | > Think about it logically, you can not brew bear from water
         | that is contaminated in the first place.
         | 
         | My assumption is that the contamination is biological, which
         | would be fixed by the long boil required in brewing. Even with
         | resistance to the local microflora, water was probably more
         | likely to cause disease than a boiled derivative like beer.
         | 
         | > I guess people just really like the idea of medieval people
         | being shitfaced all the time.
         | 
         | I've heard that the beer made then, maybe especially for
         | consumption by peasants, had a low ABV by today's standards.
         | High alcohol beer is a waste of grain if the goal is a
         | slightly-more-antiseptic-than-water beverage.
        
           | cardanome wrote:
           | > I've heard that the beer made then, maybe especially for
           | consumption by peasants, had a low ABV by today's standards.
           | High alcohol beer is a waste of grain if the goal is a
           | slightly-more-antiseptic-than-water beverage.
           | 
           | You might want to reread what I wrote, yes it was only like 2
           | percent. The problem is, how anti-septic is 2% beer? It is
           | not. It doesn't really help in any meaningful way.
           | 
           | If you want stable beer that you can transport over longer
           | distances you want higher alcohol concentration but then
           | again higher alcohol concentration isn't exactly great for
           | keeping people hydrated.
        
             | triceratops wrote:
             | > The problem is, how anti-septic is 2% beer?
             | 
             | It feels like you're deliberately not reading or addressing
             | all the answers telling you that boiling water to make beer
             | is what made it safe.
        
               | qwytw wrote:
               | Well if alcohol itself is irrelevant why did they not
               | simply boil the water before drinking it without making a
               | beer from it?
               | 
               | I think the fact that people just like to drink beer is a
               | much better explanation of why did they drink so much of
               | it. The "safer to drink" part was secondary at best.
        
               | triceratops wrote:
               | Did they know boiling water made it safe to drink? Or did
               | they only notice that drinking beer caused less diarrhea
               | than drinking water?
               | 
               | I'm not denying that the tastiness of beer was a factor.
        
               | qwytw wrote:
               | Hypocrates specifically recommended doctors to boil and
               | filter water before giving to patients to drink.
               | 
               | Ancient Egytpians, Indians and Romans understood that
               | boiling makes water safer to drink as well (Galen even
               | suggested using boiling water to sterilize surgical
               | instruments).
               | 
               | IMHO it makes perfect sense in the context of the miasma
               | theory (if people thought that "bad smells" were the main
               | vector spreading diseases and illnesses and boiling water
               | removes bad smells, improves taste etc. then it also must
               | have made it safer to drink).
        
         | kevinmchugh wrote:
         | Beer is boiled, which destroys most pathogens you might worry
         | about. You could boil plain water and be safe, but that wasn't
         | understood until later, see pasteurization.
         | 
         | A vessel inoculated with yeast and other brewing microorganisms
         | will make it harder for other microorganisms to take root.
         | They'll be outcompeted by the large existing population. So a
         | barrel of beer will tend to stay healthier than a barrel of
         | water.
         | 
         | If someone drank say, 100oz of 2% abv beer over the course of
         | the day, that's equivalent to 2.5 pints of 5% beer - hardly
         | enough to get shitfaced.
         | 
         | Edit in response to your edit: density was lower but technology
         | to manage density was less sophisticated as well. Providing
         | clean water to a large population is a hard problem that people
         | have had to solve lots of ways, and brewing is one of the
         | solutions. Later, an infected city water pump led to the
         | invention of modern epidemiology.
        
           | dhritzkiv wrote:
           | In addition, if hops (or other herbs) were used in the boil,
           | the acids from the hops (what gives beer its bitter bite),
           | even in small amounts, would provide anti-bacterial benefits
           | to the beer.
        
             | sudobash1 wrote:
             | For the medieval period, it would have been other herbs.
             | Hops are something of a later addition. I don't believe
             | that they came into very widespread use until the
             | reformation era.
        
           | automatic6131 wrote:
           | And at about 0.5% ABV you digest the alcohol at about the
           | rate you can drink it (assuming you drink it at anything
           | below a "competitive" rate. Just like, as much as you'd drink
           | socially, or with a meal, or for rehydration)
        
           | qwytw wrote:
           | > You could boil plain water and be safe, but that wasn't
           | understood until later
           | 
           | Not sure that's true. We have evidence that ancient
           | Egyptians, Greeks and Romans (and I assume other societies)
           | understood that boiling water made it safer to drink. Basic
           | sand/gravel filters.
           | 
           | Hypocrates for instance described a method of boiling water
           | and then filtering it through a cloth to purify it and remove
           | "bad smells".
           | 
           | To be fair even if you have no clue about bacteria it's not a
           | particularly complex concept to understand. If for instance
           | pre modern people truly drank beer because it was safer
           | surely at some point one of them would've asked the question
           | why is that the case?
        
         | slabity wrote:
         | > This myth again? You don't even need to know medieval history
         | to figure out it is bullshit.
         | 
         | I hate to be that guy, but do you have a source that backs this
         | claim?
         | 
         | "Think about it logically" doesn't really cut it.
        
           | cardanome wrote:
           | This is a good starting point with some good sources linked:
           | https://leslefts.blogspot.com/2013/11/the-great-medieval-
           | wat...
           | 
           | By the way, this is the mainstream position among historians,
           | it is only pop culture that hung up on the water myth.
        
             | sophacles wrote:
             | A significant portion of the examples in that link follow
             | the form:
             | 
             | This person is so holy that they drink water.
             | 
             | The very fact that it was a sign of unusual holiness to
             | drink water seems to undermine the point. It's like saying
             | "in the 2020s people mostly didn't use cell phones. Look at
             | this passage about a group called the Amish, see what I
             | mean?".
        
         | sophacles wrote:
         | I don't think you're actually applying logic. Your priors make
         | exactly no sense.
         | 
         | As others have pointed out - boiling contaminated water
         | decontaminates it... beer involves boiling.
         | 
         | 2% alcohol content is plenty to help slow bacterial growth,
         | making it keep longer.
         | 
         | > I mean think of all the calories, the logistics and all
         | 
         | Ok let's do that. In the pre-modern eras, calories were the
         | thing almost everyone was focused on. Famine was common (famine
         | is when lots of people starve to death), so any way of getting
         | calories was good. Beer is made of malt, that is sprouted grain
         | that is then heated to dry and cook it. Sprouted grain doesn't
         | keep - it either becomes a plant or rots. Using it for beer
         | makes good use of calories that would otherwise go to waste. NO
         | one was worried about getting fat (in fact if you were lucky
         | enough to get fat, it was a benefit - you're more likely to
         | survie the next famine).
         | 
         | > Obviously people were mostly drinking water... It is also
         | true, that weak 2% ale was consumed a lot, just not as much a
         | water.
         | 
         | This is not obvious at all - do you have any good sources
         | besides weak logic based on false assumptions?
        
         | MisterTea wrote:
         | > Think about it logically, you can not brew bear from water
         | that is contaminated in the first place.
         | 
         | I mean it's quite obvious you cannot brew an ursine creature
         | from just water alone.
        
           | triceratops wrote:
           | Bears are 75% water so it'll get you most of the way there.
        
         | imbnwa wrote:
         | >I guess people just really like the idea of medieval people
         | being shitfaced all the time.
         | 
         | Dunno about medieval people being shitfaced, but it probably
         | followed from the fact that in early America drinking was
         | absolutely a problem. The Whiskey Tax was heavily backed by
         | religious reformers as a de facto 'sin tax' cause there was so
         | much drinking going on. The Prohibition/Temperance movement was
         | about a hundred years old when it finally won legal prohibition
         | in 1920.
         | 
         | These weren't just neurotic Christian fundamentalists being
         | annoying, average people were drinking around three and a half
         | gallons of alcohol a year, and we're talking whiskey and rum
         | here.[0]
         | 
         | [0]https://daily.jstor.org/a-brief-history-of-drinking-alcohol/
        
           | rurp wrote:
           | Is drinking 3.5 gallons of whiskey or rum per year that big
           | of a societal problem? That's only a little more than 1 oz
           | per day. If someone is drinking to the point of disfunction I
           | would expect their consumption to be a great deal more than
           | that.
        
             | KptMarchewa wrote:
             | First, it's amongst all people - so toddlers, kids and non-
             | drinkers too. Second, it's pure alcohol count. Not 3,5
             | gallons of whisky, but so much whisky that there was 3,5
             | gallons of pure alcohol in it.
        
               | rpmisms wrote:
               | That's absolutely insane. Too bad prohibition created
               | organized crime and gun control in the US.
        
         | triceratops wrote:
         | > I guess people just really like the idea of medieval people
         | being shitfaced all the time.
         | 
         | That seems unlikely on 2% beer while doing hard manual labor.
        
         | neaden wrote:
         | This isn't just wrong because of the beer thing, but people
         | also drank a variety of herbal teas and other drinks, the most
         | popular being a boiled barley drink. Just like now people
         | prefer drinking something with more flavor then water.
        
       | globular-toast wrote:
       | I find these "believe it or not, women used to do stuff" articles
       | weird. Women still do stuff. Why is it surprising that they used
       | to do stuff too?
       | 
       | The article starts with "As the old sexist saw goes, "Beer is a
       | man's drink."" Who even says that? I honestly have never met a
       | single person who would say that. I even got laid at a beer
       | festival once. Is the author perhaps betraying their own
       | preconceptions?
        
         | havblue wrote:
         | The mindset seems to result from careerism: that people define
         | themselves according to the interesting and publicly recognized
         | work that they do. In reality I suspect that people simply had
         | no choice but to work according to their status and ability.
         | It's just labor and there was plenty of it to go around. Why do
         | we have to romanticize it?
        
       | NoLsAfterMid wrote:
       | So--beer was certainly the primary beverage, but people still
       | drank water without boiling it (which is, after all, rather time
       | and energy consuming and requires a ready fire).
       | 
       | I have ready links to provide better context, and this is
       | literally the most hated question on /r/AskHistorians, so I'm
       | sure you could get rapid replies for follow-up questions. It's an
       | _extremely_ useful resource to tap into to get a professional
       | historian with training in historiography to weigh in on
       | arbitrary questions.
       | 
       | On the general claim of using alcohol to decontaminate water:
       | https://old.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/ol1h45/delet...
       | 
       | On use of aqueducts in Britain to transport potable water:
       | https://old.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/mnlf9n/when_...
       | 
       | On general access to fresh water:
       | https://old.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/1svj1q/how_d...
       | 
       | On understanding of germ theory in water:
       | https://old.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/676bg6/befor...
       | 
       | On poisoning wells:
       | https://old.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/6qljlt/when_...
       | 
       | 2nd one on poisoning wells:
       | https://old.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/6kt7nh/poiso...
       | 
       | Addressing beer directly:
       | https://old.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/2bewpo/what_...
        
       | ianburrell wrote:
       | The article misses that in the period, ale and beer were
       | different drinks. Ale was made with herbs. Hops, and the word
       | beer, came later.
       | 
       | The 14th century is about when hops and word beer starting taking
       | over in England. I can't find evidence but I wouldn't be
       | surprised if beer was brewed by men.
        
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