[HN Gopher] The economics of all-you-can-eat buffets (2020)
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       The economics of all-you-can-eat buffets (2020)
        
       Author : Vagantem
       Score  : 190 points
       Date   : 2023-12-06 10:20 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (thehustle.co)
 (TXT) w3m dump (thehustle.co)
        
       | willsmith72 wrote:
       | > To avoid these situations, some owners have updated their
       | language to "All-you-can-eat within reason"
       | 
       | That's just no fun, you lose all the upside. I hope they offer
       | free doggy bags and takeaway for those who eat less than a
       | reasonable amount
        
         | 1594932281 wrote:
         | The buffet has to make money too, otherwise they wouldn't
         | exist. If you want doggy bags/takeaway just eat at a regular
         | restaurant and pay per item.
        
         | JambalayaJim wrote:
         | All you can eat within reason is certainly lame.
         | 
         | Charging customers for food left on the plate is quite
         | reasonable though. I'm sure a lot gets left on the plate and
         | the waste must be nauseating.
        
           | whycome wrote:
           | > Charging customers for food left on the plate is quite
           | reasonable though.
           | 
           | Is it though? What if the food quality is really low? As the
           | article states, it's a place to get rid of some old food
           | items. Do you think you have an obligation to eat it no
           | matter what?
        
             | leetcrew wrote:
             | yes, it's totally reasonable. if you aren't sure you're
             | going to like the food, start with a small taste. if you
             | don't like _any_ of the food, take the hit once and don 't
             | go back.
        
             | tekla wrote:
             | > Do you think you have an obligation to eat it no matter
             | what?
             | 
             | No, just pay for the waste.
        
             | nerdbert wrote:
             | The article doesn't say the buffet is a place to get rid of
             | old food items, it says that buffets have worked out
             | strategies to get incorporate their own old food items.
             | 
             | Anyway, if you don't want to pay for wasting things you
             | don't like, make your first plate a grazing/browsing
             | sampler platter, then come back for the stuff you liked.
        
         | naremu wrote:
         | >A woman was booted from a Golden Corral for eating all the
         | brownies, then attempting to smuggle home extras in her purse.
         | 
         | This is the most hilarious tragedy of the commons I've ever
         | heard of
         | 
         | So I guess you gotta do what you gotta do
        
           | euroderf wrote:
           | I heard an AYCE story from a cruise ship between Finland and
           | Sweden. Someone at a table of Germans (a rep for cheepnis)
           | was seen tipping food from their plate into a handbag, obv
           | for later consumption. So a waitress comes by and says "oh
           | you'll want milk with that" and pours milk into the loaded
           | bag.
        
         | sumtechguy wrote:
         | One guy I know got kicked because he showed up at noon and got
         | kicked at 10PM when they wanted to close. He was mad that he
         | could not stay and is mad 20 years later about it.
        
           | gosub100 wrote:
           | probably the same guy that buys socks with a "lifetime
           | guarantee" and returns them 20yr later. Some people just get
           | off on free stuff.
        
             | sumtechguy wrote:
             | >Some people just get off on free stuff.
             | 
             | That is an understatement with that guy. I have been
             | tempted to over the years to make a web comic on this guy.
             | The junk he does most normal people would never even think
             | of.
        
           | toast0 wrote:
           | I worked with a guy who would routinely get kicked out of
           | AYCE restaurants and he seemed pretty cool with it. I think
           | they'd usually kick him out after about an hour of dining.
        
         | mcguire wrote:
         | Back in Austin, there was a small chain of Mongolian grill
         | restaurants that offered AYCE dumplings with your meal that a
         | friend and I often went to. My friend really liked the
         | dumplings and once had about six refill plates of them.
         | 
         | The next time we went, they no longer offered AYCE dumplings.
        
         | whartung wrote:
         | Red Lobster decided to make its "All you can eat Shrimp" a
         | permanent menu item. Turns out it cost them dearly. It was
         | designed as a promotional loss leader, which doesn't work full
         | time. They eventually had to creep the price up from $20 to
         | $25.
        
       | alxjsn wrote:
       | As kids at a buffet we would all load up on way more food than we
       | could eat. Naturally, we would just play with that food, mixing
       | up all the things we could in cups and dare each other to take a
       | sip. I bet we weren't the only ones who did that.
        
         | grecy wrote:
         | In most places now you have to pay extra for anything left on
         | your plate.
         | 
         | Rightly so, food waste is inexcusable when we have people going
         | hungry.
         | 
         | EDIT: With the planet being used up people are perfectly happy
         | to just waste edible food. We're doomed.
        
           | bcrosby95 wrote:
           | Hunger is a political problem. We could easily feed everyone
           | in the world pretty cheaply.
        
             | supportengineer wrote:
             | Housing is a political problem. We could easily house
             | everyone in the world pretty cheaply.
        
           | SketchySeaBeast wrote:
           | > Rightly so, food waste is inexcusable when we have people
           | going hungry.
           | 
           | How would that food in the buffet get to the hungry?
        
             | euniceee3 wrote:
             | I smell a new startup!
             | 
             | And really this would depend on a rich freeze drying
             | industry. Imagine people driving around in trucks
             | collecting all the uneaten scraps from children and adults
             | plates. Sure we would not be able to handle to food safely,
             | but we will be exporting it to countries that do not have
             | as stringent laws on human consumption.
        
             | nerdbert wrote:
             | If the buffet restaurant hadn't bought it for someone to
             | leave it on their plate, then the ingredient cost would
             | have been lower and a poorer person would have been more
             | likely to be able to afford it. Or someone in the supply
             | chain could have donated it as part of their CSR program.
        
           | wharvle wrote:
           | So much food waste exists because food is incredibly cheap.
           | Like, most of the time money spent recovering waste to give
           | to the poor would be more effective if you just _bought more
           | food_ with it. That's how cheap it is, and that's why nobody
           | follows economic incentives to recover the waste without
           | further prompting (there aren't such incentives).
        
             | armchairhacker wrote:
             | Logistics are seriously underrated.
        
               | calderracrusade wrote:
               | Logistics is also why "food is cheap" is a stupid
               | argument.
               | 
               | If the food hadn't been ordered, it wouldn't have been
               | shipped, it wouldn't have been grown...
               | 
               | It's silly to directly relate the exact food a kid didn't
               | eat on a buffet in Los Angeles to a starving family in
               | Detroit, but that doesn't mean there are zero lines to
               | draw.
        
           | mathgradthrow wrote:
           | Food waste is a _result_ of trying to prevent people from
           | going hungry. Systems which produce less food waste result in
           | more people going hungry.
        
             | nerdbert wrote:
             | I really do not think that applies to all-you-can-eat
             | buffet rules about leaving plates full of uneaten food.
        
         | JohnFen wrote:
         | As a kid, we went to all-you-can-eat buffets quite a bit. Once
         | I stopped being a kid, though, I started avoiding them because
         | the food tends to be pretty poor. I'd rather eat less and enjoy
         | the food than eat more and not.
        
       | RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote:
       | The other trick, especially at places like Golden Corral is the
       | oily fried foods.
       | 
       | Oily fried foods are very filling. You are limited in how much
       | you can eat without feeling sick.
        
         | gwbas1c wrote:
         | Yeah, but who wants to go to a buffet to only eat fried foods?
         | (I mean, I like an oily fried dish occasionally, but it's not
         | something I'd go for at an all-you-can-eat place.)
         | 
         | I suspect that if Golden Corral is struggling, and they are
         | mostly serving oily fried foods, the problem isn't changing
         | consumer preferences. The problem is that they aren't serving
         | foods people like.
        
       | pimlottc wrote:
       | I can't read this in iOS Safari, the page keeps
       | reloading/snapping back to the top when I try to scroll. Even
       | dumps me out of reader mode, eventually.
        
         | danpalmer wrote:
         | Also broken in Chrome on macOS, the article renders briefly
         | before everything disappears.
        
       | bell-cot wrote:
       | [January 2020]
       | 
       | Originally on HN here -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22151891 - with 268 comments
       | 
       | From a quick search on those comments, I still don't see the
       | obvious comparison between all-you-can-eat restaurant buffets and
       | all-you-can-use internet bandwidth.
        
         | callalex wrote:
         | I don't see how that's an obvious comparison at all? Food has a
         | per-unit cost, while data packets (which is what I think you
         | actually meant, not bandwidth) have at most a marginal cost
         | that is nearly zero once bandwidth has been built and
         | allocated.
        
           | calderracrusade wrote:
           | Falsy. Torrenting and 4k streaming are the crab leg
           | enthusiasts. Who's paying to expand the pipes to customers?
           | Netflix refuses to, even though they were consuming a jaw
           | dropping amount of bandwidth compared to all other services.
           | And the cartels (Comcast etc) also refuse. So this has
           | sometimes become an infrastructure problem where taxes etc
           | are roped in.
           | 
           | And not all packets are the same. As much as net neutrality
           | is a good idea at 10,000 feet. When you look into details
           | like 911 calls over Wifi shouldn't actually share priority
           | with 4k VR porn.
        
             | callalex wrote:
             | > Who's paying to expand the pipes to customers?
             | 
             | The customers are. Comcast is charging every one of their
             | customers $80+ per month to connect to internet
             | infrastructure that they update maybe once every 20 years.
             | They have massive profit margins, this is public data.
             | 
             | > And not all packets are the same. As much as net
             | neutrality is a good idea at 10,000 feet. When you look
             | into details like 911 calls over Wifi shouldn't actually
             | share priority with 4k VR porn.
             | 
             | QOS is entirely unrelated to charging money for data
             | packets used and is already a solved problem with existing
             | infrastructure and technology, so I don't really understand
             | why you brought up this straw man.
        
             | a1369209993 wrote:
             | > When you look into details like 911 calls over Wifi
             | shouldn't actually share priority with 4k VR porn.
             | 
             | That's irrelevant, because sane people don't try to stream
             | 4k VR porn and make 911 calls simultaneously on the same
             | device. Just give each device ~64Kbps (enough for even a
             | uncompressed phone call) that it has exclusive first dibs
             | on. For robustness, give each modem ~1Mbps that _it_ has
             | exclusive first dibs on, so 16 people in the same house can
             | 't stomp on each other's traffic[0].
             | 
             | This works fine even if the porn and the 911 calls are both
             | going over indistiguishable TOR connections, as they
             | ideally should be in order to deny ISPs the physical
             | possibility of _not_ having net neutrality (though that 's
             | not always practical).
             | 
             | (A alternative option is to always allocate marginal
             | bandwidth to the device that's using the least bandwidth
             | total, which avoids having to know what a phone call costs,
             | but seems like it would harder to make reliable in
             | practice.)
             | 
             | 0: Technically this is the only part you can properly
             | _enforce_ , since a user could reprogram their modem to
             | give more bandwidth to certain devices, but the
             | 64Kbps/device limit is good default, and if they change it,
             | any problems are on them.
        
             | wkat4242 wrote:
             | Netflix places edge caches at all major providers so they
             | pay for it that way.
        
           | bell-cot wrote:
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_transit
           | 
           | ...but even if all the traffic is somehow within an ISP's own
           | network, that "...marginal cost that is nearly zero..." is a
           | very poor description of the economics. Networks aren't free,
           | and building a network that can handle 10X the bandwidth
           | means you're stuck with a far higher monthly payment on your
           | construction loan.
        
       | JambalayaJim wrote:
       | The article mentions that 80% of all restaurant items will be
       | eaten at home by 2030.
       | 
       | This further cultural entrenchment of people into homebodies is
       | really sad to me. Really hope this does not happen.
       | 
       | I am assuming of course that the implication is that in-
       | restaurant dining demand will shift to delivery, not that
       | delivery will see some massive explosion over and above current
       | restaurant food demand.
        
         | MattGaiser wrote:
         | At least for my family, especially as delivery packaging has
         | improved, restaurants have become an inferior experience unless
         | they are fairly high end.
         | 
         | Grandparents used to take everyone out to dinner regularly. Now
         | we eat at their house. They have more comfortable chairs at
         | home. The environment is much quieter. You don't have to wait
         | for refills. They personally have better cutlery. We aren't
         | really the types to like being waited on.
         | 
         | So unless we explicitly want something social from the
         | restaurant or we need a table as we are travelling, the reasons
         | for actually going in one have disappeared.
        
           | oceanplexian wrote:
           | The packaging might be better but it doesn't solve the
           | problem that the food arrives cold. Especially since the
           | drivers pick up multiple deliveries and it can be 30-40
           | minutes before you get your food.
        
           | lotsofpulp wrote:
           | Above all, the probability of a restaurant being able to
           | provide a meal with sufficient quality is too low.
           | 
           | If my family gets together, we can bang out a multiple course
           | guaranteed high quality meal in one hour, having fun while we
           | do it.
           | 
           | But a lot of that is due to cooking knowledge that the elders
           | in the family pass down and refine over many, many decades.
        
             | wkat4242 wrote:
             | That works if you have a family and enjoy cooking. For me
             | neither applies.
             | 
             | And I'm sure restaurant chefs get some kind of training to
             | replace the passed down knowledge :)
        
               | toyg wrote:
               | It also works for very narrow sets of dishes. Nobody is
               | an expert in every type of food in the world. Parent
               | poster was just humblebragging.
        
         | Spivak wrote:
         | > This further cultural entrenchment of people into homebodies
         | is really sad to me.
         | 
         | This is an odd take because the trend in new/remodeled homes is
         | dedicating practically the entire first floor and back yard of
         | every home as an entertaining space. The line between "at home"
         | and "out" is getting to be very thin.
         | 
         | Going over to a different friend's house 4-5 times a week for
         | dinner, games, movies, music, sporting events, swimming, spa,
         | fire pit feels to me pretty darn out.
        
         | oceanplexian wrote:
         | Not sure I'd put a lot of stock in that. My behavior has
         | completely changed, why would I pay DoorDash or Uber Eats $30
         | to deliver some fast food when I can go to a real restaurant
         | and get much better food for cheaper?
         | 
         | Delivery made sense when it was artificially subsidized by VCs,
         | now that they've all jacked prices it's not competitive at all.
        
           | Aaargh20318 wrote:
           | > why would I pay DoorDash or Uber Eats $30 to deliver some
           | fast food when I can go to a real restaurant and get much
           | better food for cheaper?
           | 
           | Because you can eat it in the comfort of your own home,
           | instead of the discomfort of an unfamiliar place surrounded
           | by strangers.
           | 
           | It may just be me but I really do not like eating in public.
        
             | stickfigure wrote:
             | It's absolutely incredible how much you can learn about
             | cooking from youtube.
             | 
             | My family rarely goes out to restaurants anymore, not
             | because we don't love restaurants, but because it's more
             | fun to cook at home.
        
               | hilux wrote:
               | You are so lucky to have a family who cook together!
        
               | bluGill wrote:
               | You quickly realize that most restaurants serve terrible
               | food and so it isn't worth eating out at all.
        
               | tayo42 wrote:
               | I pretty much only go out now for stuff I can't make my
               | self, or as a social thing.
               | 
               | Most restaurant food needs to be simple and easy so they
               | can get you in and out quick.
        
             | ecshafer wrote:
             | Eating out isn't uncomfortable. You get to people watch,
             | make small talk with the waiter, talk with the person you
             | are eating with, read a book if you are alone. You also get
             | a chance to get out of the house for a while, I love eating
             | out, and honestly only having a baby (which does add
             | complexity) is the only reason I don't eat out more.
        
               | geodel wrote:
               | True. But it is more about trend like watching movie in
               | multiplex is fun, there are those large butter popcorn
               | containers, soda machine, bigger screen, better sound and
               | so on. But more people are now streaming than going out
               | for movie.
               | 
               | So now I think more people then ever will be having
               | restaurant food at comfort of home and not worrying about
               | traffic, driving, cabs, parking, crowd, one more beer or
               | wine glass etc.
        
               | gspencley wrote:
               | > Eating out isn't uncomfortable
               | 
               | That really depends on your personality. Not only is
               | "people watching" not my thing, but the idea of other
               | people "people watching" me is terrifyingly
               | uncomfortable. Sends shivers down my spine level of
               | discomfort. Please don't watch me while I eat. Some of us
               | find the idea of "making small talk" with anyone, let
               | alone wait staff, to be inherently uncomfortable.
               | 
               | For others, eating is a social activity, or an
               | opportunity to socialize, and they like that. Some people
               | feel "trapped" if they are cooped up inside their homes
               | for too long, and need reasons to "get out of the house."
               | That sounds like you, and that's great. Nothing wrong
               | with it at all and you should enjoy eating out as much as
               | you like. For others such as myself, who are introverted
               | and find great comfort in the solitude of our homes, the
               | reasons that you find eating out to be comfortable are
               | the same reasons we find eating out to be uncomfortable.
        
               | hilux wrote:
               | You and I say that, but mistrusting strangers and being
               | "anti-social" is the dominant paradigm - in America much
               | more than in other countries, I think.
        
             | wkat4242 wrote:
             | Here in Spain the restaurant is actually part of the
             | experience. Like a beneficial thing. It's nice to truly get
             | away. With colleagues we eat at a restaurant for lunch at
             | least once a week. It helps that pretty much all places
             | have a three course daily menu with drink for around EUR12.
        
           | HideousKojima wrote:
           | I mean I never pay for delivery (except very rarely pizza)
           | but I still do takeout over eating in the restaurant 90% of
           | the time.
        
           | geodel wrote:
           | One big thing is take out. It is quite common in many
           | countries. Maybe not in US yet. Lot of people grab food from
           | restaurant or stores on their way home from work. Some people
           | even pick from different places to have some _combo meal_ at
           | home which is not possible while eating in a restaurant.
        
             | rascul wrote:
             | It's quite common in the US.
        
           | gspencley wrote:
           | > why would I pay DoorDash or Uber Eats $30 to deliver some
           | fast food when I can go to a real restaurant and get much
           | better food for cheaper?
           | 
           | 1. I don't have to drive
           | 
           | 2. I don't have to listen to other people talking loud or
           | being obnoxious while I'm trying to eat my meal and have a
           | quiet private conversation with my wife
           | 
           | 3. I can enjoy it in the comfort of my home, whether this
           | means eating dinner in front of the tv, or enjoying a scotch
           | or wine we have at home, or even just being able to get out
           | of the clothes we've been in all day and enjoy comfort food
           | in our PJs
           | 
           | 4. I don't have to brave the cold or wet weather
           | 
           | 5. I don't have to deal with wait staff interrupting my meal
           | every 5 minutes to ask if everything is ok
           | 
           | 6. I don't have to worry about music that I don't care for,
           | or is distracting, being played while I eat
           | 
           | 7. I don't have to worry about dirty dishes on the table, or
           | the table itself being dirty (although to be fair I have no
           | control over the dishes used to prepare the food and so some
           | might consider this to be moot)
           | 
           | 8. I don't have to worry about my home being crowded and busy
           | with strangers, making for an uncomfortable dining
           | experience. My mother once took me to a restaurant to
           | celebrate my birthday, just the two of us. I'm a foodie and,
           | despite listing several reasons I often prefer delivery /
           | take-out over dine-in, I actually do love a great restaurant
           | and the food at this particular place was supposed to be
           | amazing. The two of us were put in a tiny corner in a
           | _crowded_ restaurant so close to the tables nearest us that
           | the three parties (us plus our neighbours on either side)
           | could hear every single word of each others ' conversations.
           | It was practically a communal table situation. Edit: I forgot
           | to mention that we had a reservation which made this
           | experience all the more frustrating. Which leads me to...
           | 
           | 9. I don't have to worry about finding myself at a restaurant
           | that has communal tables
           | 
           | 10. I don't have to worry about people celebrating their
           | birthdays receiving a loud and obnoxious group of wait staff
           | bursting out of the kitchen to interrupt the entire
           | restaurant's private conversations with an annoying song and
           | cheer
           | 
           | I recognize that a lot of the above points can be avoided by
           | choosing a different restaurant. But sometimes you still want
           | the food of a particular restaurant but that restaurant's
           | dining atmosphere is what kills it for you.
        
             | sfink wrote:
             | > 5. I don't have to deal with wait staff interrupting my
             | meal every 5 minutes to ask if everything is ok
             | 
             | I'm sure you know this, but they're actually interrupting
             | your meal every 5 minutes to minimize any possible delay in
             | seating the next person after you. They just accomplish
             | that by asking if everything is ok.
             | 
             | It's all about throughput.
             | 
             | (And it's a US thing. In France, among other places, you're
             | expected to be the only group using the table for that
             | meal. Which means they're in no rush for you to finish, but
             | also that they are not happy if a group sits down but only
             | a subset of people order food. Sometimes to the extent of
             | asking you to leave.)
        
           | wkat4242 wrote:
           | Yeah and you don't have to do the dishes afterwards. And it's
           | served hot and you can order more if you feel like it.
        
         | Kaytaro wrote:
         | I'd bet tipping inflation has a lot to do with that. Delivery
         | can often times come out cheaper with the apps suggested tip
         | than dining in with 20-25% being expected.
        
           | wkat4242 wrote:
           | Could be. Here in Spain dining out is the norm and 0% tip is
           | expected (though some is highly welcomed of course)
        
           | bigstrat2003 wrote:
           | While I agree that the suggested tip percentages are getting
           | out of hand, I personally refuse to follow those and I would
           | be surprised if most people did. I tip the same as I ever
           | did: 10% (or less) for bad service, 15% for decent but
           | unremarkable service, 20% (or more) for good service. There's
           | absolutely no reason to increase the percentages one tips
           | just because the people writing the POS software are putting
           | in crazy values.
        
         | hooverd wrote:
         | Well, restaurants, even on the high end, are increasingly
         | getting louder and less comfortable. I thought that I was just
         | getting older, but it's a real thing [0]. My favorite bars are
         | the ones that are comfortable and don't blast your ears off
         | with music.
         | 
         | https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/11/how-r...
         | [0]
        
         | hilux wrote:
         | The general trend is that people use money to buy "privacy,"
         | i.e. the freedom to not have to interact with "strangers."
         | 
         | It's a glaring example of local optimization at the cost of
         | global (your own life, viewed in its entirety) worsening.
        
         | xhrpost wrote:
         | Yea it seems like western culture is obsessed with advancing
         | hyper individualism. I can't judge, I'm a product of the
         | culture myself, but our mental health seems to keep getting
         | worse the more we keep our lives inside our own bubbles and
         | move away from any aspect of community.
        
           | rayiner wrote:
           | Coming from an eastern culture, I'm happy to judge. Luckily
           | it's a self-correcting problem. Hyper individualism makes
           | having children both burdensome (lack of community support)
           | and socially undesirable, and so these cultures are being
           | replaced by less individualistic ones.
        
             | toyg wrote:
             | Except such cultures inevitably morph back into
             | individualistic ones, typically once educational
             | attainments and female emancipation kick in.
             | 
             | It's not about culture, it's about economic conditions.
        
       | wiradikusuma wrote:
       | I regularly treat my 25-ish team to all-you-can-eat (AYCE)
       | buffets (until recently, almost every week). What I observe,
       | which could be country-specific, there are two kinds of "ideal"
       | customers:
       | 
       | 1. Family with kids. The kids don't eat much.
       | 
       | 2. Couples. The female doesn't eat much. I honestly don't
       | understand why they go to AYCE.
       | 
       | I'm surprised to learn that in the US the ticket is $20. In
       | Indonesia, with a minimum wage of only $320/mo, it's around that
       | price too! ($10 to $20). Also in most AYCEs here you're limited
       | to 90 minutes.
        
         | swores wrote:
         | > _doesn 't eat much. I honestly don't understand why they go
         | to AYCE_
         | 
         | If someone is going and eating a small amount of a single dish
         | then it makes no sense (unless, as in your example, they're
         | going with someone else like a spouse in which case maybe the
         | person/s they're going with like it enough for it to be worth
         | going on average despite the person who isn't eating much).
         | 
         | But I've known a handful of people with quite small appetites
         | who enjoy AYCE restaurants because it lets them enjoy several
         | of their favourite dishes and/or try several new dishes, even
         | if only a few mouthfuls of each. It might still work out poor
         | value in raw terms of calories per $, but compared to any other
         | way of enjoying 5 different types of tasty food in the same
         | meal it can be very good value in pleasure per $.
        
           | sumtechguy wrote:
           | I personally can only manage about 1 1/2 plates of food. Not
           | stacked either. But I do enjoy going to them as like you
           | point out the fun is having all these different things you
           | can try with low risk.
        
         | mikestew wrote:
         | _Couples. The female doesn 't eat much. I honestly don't
         | understand why they go to AYCE._
         | 
         | Because a buffet isn't a competitive contest where you pay to
         | see how much food you can stuff down your gullet for $20. No,
         | you're paying to walk away satisfied. If that only takes one
         | plate, well, you still "got your money's worth".
        
           | HideousKojima wrote:
           | >Because a buffet isn't a competitive contest where you pay
           | to see how much food you can stuff down your gullet for $20.
           | 
           | I mean it was for me and my brothers growing up. Back when
           | Pizza Hut used to have a linch buffet we'd always have a
           | competition to see who could eat the most slices. Even though
           | I was the youngest I won a decent amount of times. I recall
           | my record being somewhere north of 20 slices, though the
           | buffet slices were smaller than normal pizza slices. We were
           | all skinny as rails back then too (and mostly still are).
        
           | euroderf wrote:
           | Making sure they don't actually make any money off you - this
           | means checking your eating performance against your estimate
           | of the prices of their inputs (wholesale food prices) -
           | challenging and fun ?
        
         | n_plus_1_acc wrote:
         | Most AYCE places I know of charge 1EUR per year of age which I
         | find very reasonable.
        
       | michaelt wrote:
       | I once went to an all-you-can-eat buffet in Bulgaria with a
       | mechanism I'd never seen before.
       | 
       | The salads and starches and suchlike were all self-service, and
       | waiters toured the room with big skewers of freshly roasted meat
       | they'd carve right in front of you. But of course they'd only
       | serve you a certain amount, and they weren't very fast to make a
       | return visit. Thus limiting diners' consumption of the more
       | expensive items, unless the diner was very patient.
       | 
       | Of course, the prices were very fair and we all left well fed.
        
         | bitxbitxbitcoin wrote:
         | That sounds like a churrascaria aka Brazilian steakhouse/bbq to
         | me!
         | 
         | Did the waiters ask if you wanted meat or were there cards with
         | a red side and a green side?
        
           | xyzzy123 wrote:
           | I went to one of those once without understanding how the
           | token worked.
           | 
           | They kept coming again and again with the delicious things...
           | I left so full I could barely walk.
           | 
           | It's weird how while I could have turned "more grilled meat"
           | down at any time but I didn't.
        
         | maximinus_thrax wrote:
         | I used to go with my team to Fogo de Chao in the before-fore
         | times as they were right across from our building, and they
         | applied the exact same strategy wrt to meat.
        
         | WalterBright wrote:
         | I've seen that in a few places, though I've never been to
         | Bulgaria.
        
         | civilitty wrote:
         | In the US this is often the case at Brazilian steakhouses.
         | They're usually higher end than regular buffets though because
         | the meat is the main attraction and they're not stingy with it.
        
         | voganmother42 wrote:
         | Reminds me of "In churrascarias or the traditional Brazilian-
         | style steakhouse restaurants, servers come to the table with
         | knives and a vertically-held skewer, on which are speared
         | various kinds of premium cuts of meat, most commonly local cuts
         | of beef, pork, chicken, lamb, and sometimes atypical or exotic
         | meats."
         | 
         | Ive found these types of restaurants all over the US -
         | https://fogodechao.com/ is one I remember
        
           | fsckboy wrote:
           | _churrascaria_ refers to the skewered and grilled cooking
           | aspect.
           | 
           | the roaming the room and serving you from the skewer is
           | called _rodizio_
        
             | ufo wrote:
             | Although to be fair, most churrascarias use the rodizio
             | model.
        
             | Beijinger wrote:
             | You make me miss Brazil. And you make me hungry.
        
             | rapfaria wrote:
             | Do americans have pizzeria rodizio? They bring slices to
             | your table. Younger folks usually brag like "I had some 20
             | slices last rodizio"
        
               | ender341341 wrote:
               | the only 'rodizio' I've seen in the US tend to be on the
               | higher end, while most all you can eat pizza places tend
               | to be on the lower end and just self serve.
        
               | brendoelfrendo wrote:
               | There is a place in Texas that does this called Delucca,
               | I've been to their Dallas location and really liked it.
        
               | e28eta wrote:
               | The Mountain Mike's pizza in my hometown used to do that
               | certain night(s) of the week when I was a kid. I don't
               | know if they still do.
               | 
               | Similar dynamic, they'd come out with a fresh pizza, do a
               | lap around the dining room, and if you wanted that flavor
               | you'd ask for a slice, or keep waiting.
               | 
               | I don't remember if adults could make requests /
               | suggestions.
        
             | paulddraper wrote:
             | Hence rodiziogrill.com :)
        
           | paulddraper wrote:
           | Often advertised in the US as "Brazilian grills."
           | 
           | https://www.tucanos.com/
           | 
           | https://www.rodiziogrill.com/
           | 
           | The quality+price of a steakhouse with the variety of a
           | buffet.
        
         | Spivak wrote:
         | I love me a Brazilian steakhouse, I think you're overestimating
         | the patience required.
         | 
         | * If there's something specific you want and it's not currently
         | going around you can ask and they'll usually bring you a whole
         | skewer just for you. Your server will also typically collect
         | the table's favorites and send them your way.
         | 
         | * For everything except the steak that's carved right on to
         | your plate you can just ask for more when they're serving it to
         | your table. And the only reason for the steak is just because
         | they have to take it back to get seared again.
         | 
         | * Unless your restaurant has specific dinner service slots
         | (which is pretty rare) you'll likely get people coming over to
         | serve you meat before you even get a chance to hit the "salad"
         | bar.
         | 
         | Those steakhouses make the economics work by simply charging
         | $25/plate/lunch $50/plate/dinner before drinks. They've got to
         | be some of the least "sleezy" restaurants around.
        
           | dwringer wrote:
           | I would have agreed with your comment 100% after my first
           | visit to such a restaurant, but after my most recent visit I
           | cannot do so. The amount of patience required depends
           | entirely on the quality of service, and this is not
           | necessarily consistent at all such restaurants at all times.
        
           | michaelt wrote:
           | This was at a time when Bulgaria's per-capita GDP was around
           | $7500. I can assure you, they were not making the economics
           | work by charging $50/plate :)
           | 
           | Which is probably why they weren't delivering full skewers at
           | request.
        
         | jessehattabaugh wrote:
         | We have those in the US; it's called Old Country Buffet
         | https://youtu.be/net7t1HjQxY?si=W4lZ0ru3QYbFs7SO
        
           | sumtechguy wrote:
           | Never saw that style of service at old country buffet. That
           | chain is usually go get it from the buffet tables with a
           | person on the end of the buffet tables carving ham or beef.
           | If you have never been to a 'Brazilian' steak house you
           | should try it at least once they are a little pricy but a
           | very interesting experience distinct from a buffet. The one I
           | went to had a very small salad bar. Everything else they
           | wandered by and served meat of skewers.
        
         | JohnFen wrote:
         | This is how I remember buffets operating in the US when I was a
         | child, too. Nobody would go table to table to serve the good
         | stuff, but would have stations at the buffet line, and you'd
         | have to ask them to carve whatever you wanted. You could go
         | back and get more as much as you wanted, but each trip got you
         | a set amount.
        
         | gosub100 wrote:
         | > they weren't very fast to make a return visit
         | 
         | I've seen this at several AYCE sushi restaurants. They
         | repeatedly offer you seaweed salad, soup, and mussel
         | appetizers, but get really 'busy' when they are preparing the
         | sushi rolls. The worst I saw was (about 20 yrs ago) some stingy
         | owner had a stipulation for AYCE only for the _first hour_ ,
         | then you had to pay up. The chef was incredibly slow preparing
         | the food. Other places I've seen try to chat you up to slow
         | down your eating.
        
       | calderracrusade wrote:
       | My favorite is libertarians who use buffets as an example of why
       | they don't pay taxes. "I don't pay for the salad bar, I get to
       | eat steak, I can't choose where my taxes go". Except you
       | literally do pay for all the wilting lettuce as you eat your
       | steak. You don't get to tell them to un-order the lettuce and un-
       | stock the salad bar just because it violates your NAP.
       | 
       | There are many economics lessons to learn from buffets. And
       | people tend to learn zero of them.
        
       | daltont wrote:
       | The imagery of the football players at the buffet brings back
       | memories of my team going to the breakfast buffets at Shoney's
       | the morning of Saturday games at noon. We didn't need lunch and
       | the food was down before game time.
        
       | gnicholas wrote:
       | > _They use larger than average serving spoons for things like
       | potatoes, and smaller than average tongs for meats._
       | 
       | Smart! The buffet my family has gone to the most, Sweet Tomatoes
       | (RIP, COVID-19) didn't really even have meat. You could fish for
       | chicken in the chicken noodle soup, and they had chili, but that
       | was about it.
       | 
       | > _Even higher-end buffets, like the $98 brunch at the Hotel del
       | Coronado in San Diego, employ these tactics: "They hide the
       | truffles, the foie gras, and the oysters," says Britt. "You
       | literally can't find them."_
       | 
       | I've never had the $98 brunch, but their downstairs (less
       | expensive) brunch buffet is a pretty good deal. The pricing for
       | kids was especially reasonable when we ate there a few years ago.
       | But nothing will beat their pricing on our honeymoon -- they
       | comped us brunch for the whole week!
        
       | bitxbitxbitcoin wrote:
       | Little ethnic buffets like the one mentioned at the end are my
       | favorite types of hole in the walls. At that point, it's about
       | trying a little bit of everything which if you ordered one of
       | everything would be very expensive in comparison with the buffet
       | entry price.
        
       | dazc wrote:
       | I worked for a hotel company once that did all you can eat
       | breakfast buffets and lot of stuff was reheated day after day,
       | the fruit salad was best avoided too.
       | 
       | I don't know if this is standard but I avoid such places like the
       | plague.
        
         | lotsofpulp wrote:
         | I value free hotel breakfasts at zero for this reason, or
         | whatever the contents of the sealed food items. I prefer
         | Embassy Suites though, where I can see them crack eggs.
        
           | whartung wrote:
           | >  I prefer Embassy Suites though, where I can see them crack
           | eggs.
           | 
           | As I understand it, it's somewhat of an open secret that many
           | of the eggs are powdered. I don't know if that's true. They
           | may well also be "boil in a bag", which somewhat makes more
           | sense when you see the texture and the somewhat strange
           | "shapes" that they come out in, if they don't stir and break
           | them.
           | 
           | Heck, maybe they're boil in a bag powdered eggs.
           | 
           | I was at a hotel in/near Miami, FL, and they opened their
           | morning buffet to the local first responder community. I
           | thought that was rather generous of them.
        
       | jzb wrote:
       | I grew up in a small town in Missouri in the 70s and 80s. I
       | _literally_ had never had any form of Chinese food until I was
       | about 17, and I _loved it_. So a friend and I would go into  "the
       | city" on the regular for a Chinese buffet -- on average once a
       | week during the summer.
       | 
       | I'm pretty sure the owner winced every time we pulled into the
       | parking lot in my friend's heavily used Ford Escort. They had the
       | best Crab Rangoon, and we would knock back between 3-5 heavily
       | loaded plates, each. (Not only Crab Rangoon.) And then heaping
       | bowls of self-serve ice cream.
       | 
       | The restaurant is long gone now -- it folded sometime after I
       | moved out of state (so I don't think it was our feasting that did
       | it) -- which is a shame. I can't put away food the way I did as a
       | teen, and I wish I could go back and have a few much more
       | reasonably sized meals to help restore balance. In my limited
       | defense we always tipped heavily even though we were poor
       | teenagers with part-time amusement park wages.
        
         | CoastalCoder wrote:
         | > They had the best Crab Rangoon
         | 
         | In late 1970's or early 1980's (I _think_ ), Super Stop &
         | Shop's salad bar had a "seafood salad" with imitation crab
         | meat.
         | 
         | So I'm wondering if your "crab" Rangoon was real crab, or
         | something much cheaper.
        
           | 1123581321 wrote:
           | Crab rangoon is almost always imitation. Sometimes just cream
           | cheese.
           | 
           | I happily eat a dozen of them when the neighborhood Laotian
           | church does its fundraiser, no matter what's in them. Perfect
           | snack.
        
             | stronglikedan wrote:
             | Most of the places around here use the canned crab meat,
             | but very little of it usually.
        
           | Beijinger wrote:
           | Well, most Sushi places use fake crab meat (kani). And to be
           | honest, it is not what makes sushi good or bad. I had below
           | average sushi with real crab meat.
           | 
           | Just for the guys with allergies: It contains eggs and wheat.
        
             | resolutebat wrote:
             | Random side note: _kani_ is the Japanese word for actual
             | crab. Fake crab is _kani-kamaboko_ ( "crab fish sausage"),
             | but the second word was lost in translation.
        
         | nerdbert wrote:
         | > I literally had never had any form of Chinese ... They had
         | the best Crab Rangoon
         | 
         | What the hell is that stuff? I lived most of my life in Asia,
         | but went to a Chinese buffet on a visit to the USA. Crab
         | Rangoon sounded exciting... but it was full of _cream cheese_
         | or something? Absolutely shocking. I 'm very confident that's
         | not a Chinese (or Burmese) dish.
        
           | elil17 wrote:
           | Chinese-American cuisine is it's own thing with dishes that
           | reflect the ingredients available to Chinese immigrants in
           | the 19th and 20th century and the demands of American
           | consumers. It's typically a sweeter version of Guangdong
           | food, with one or two Hunan or Sichuan dishes thrown in, and
           | maybe some Japanese food as well. Then you've got uniquely
           | Chinese-American food, like Egg Foo Young.
        
             | JoeAltmaier wrote:
             | Around here (Midwest) we joke, it's not a complete Chinese
             | Buffet unless it has mac-n-cheese.
        
           | jghn wrote:
           | It's cream cheese. Sometimes there's some crab or krab mixed
           | in.
           | 
           | My understanding is a lot of those fried American Chinese
           | appetizers were introduced as part of the whole Trader Vics
           | thing when he was getting underway
        
         | whartung wrote:
         | Our colloquial term for the Chinese buffets was "All you can
         | stand Chinese".
         | 
         | I haven't been to one in years. A singular issue with Chinese
         | food today is the seeming race to the bottom. They're all as
         | commoditized and cheap as they possibly be, and it's a real
         | shame. It's also, at least locally, seems to be getting sweeter
         | and sweeter.
        
         | dhehsvc wrote:
         | Let me guess, Columbia,MO?
        
       | post_break wrote:
       | One time my dad and his friend went to a pizza hut buffet. His
       | friend was a prankster so he proceeded to pour the entire thing
       | of dressing into the salad bowl, pick it up and take it to his
       | seat. He said the manager came over and was pissed and told him
       | he better eat all of it. He ate it all, much to the managers
       | disapproval. We're talking the huge bowl, like 2 feet wide.
        
         | mjevans wrote:
         | I wouldn't be surprised if the 'greens' were the most expensive
         | part of the buffet. All the shelf stable stuff is super easy to
         | do in bulk, but greens go bad so quickly.
        
           | wkat4242 wrote:
           | Yep this is why McDonald's salads cost more than a burger.
        
         | rurp wrote:
         | The manager was probably annoyed because they knew that other
         | customers would get mad about the salad not being available.
         | Someone taking the entire giant bowl probably isn't in their
         | normal workflow and will take some time to work around.
        
           | post_break wrote:
           | I'm not justifying it, if I were the manager I'd be pissed
           | too haha.
        
       | ryanjshaw wrote:
       | Somewhat related - I have enjoyed watching Kitchen Nightmares and
       | Hotel Hell, but I've always wondered about the economics of
       | restaurants and whether Ramsay's "local and fresh" is really
       | viable or not, and under which conditions. Anybody have
       | recommendations that go into this?
        
       | ManBeardPc wrote:
       | I avoid all-you-can-eats, the quality is usually much worse and
       | even if there is some good stuff everyone plunders that tray and
       | it takes ages to refill. On special occasions the price is even
       | higher, easily reaching 50EUR+. Why would I do that if there are
       | several restaurants nearby where I get way better quality for
       | less, can choose exactly what I want and still can barely eat it
       | all? I don't understand the appeal.
        
         | standardUser wrote:
         | The appeal is eating little bits of lots of different things. I
         | order the same way at restaurants - almost always multiple
         | small dishes and rarely an entree. If so, it's shared.
         | 
         | Also, having been to some high end buffets, these can sometimes
         | be disappointing but they can also be truly amazing. I ate at a
         | seafood buffet at a fancy hotel in Guangzhou once that blew my
         | mind.
        
       | mathgradthrow wrote:
       | They miss the most important facet. Costco can only make so many
       | chickens in their rotisserie. The downside is bounded.
       | 
       | The best bang for your buck options at a buffet still come in a
       | bucket, but there no obligation for the restaurant to keep that
       | bucket full, regardless of demand. It's a bit like playing poker
       | in vegas. You're competing with the other gamblers, not the
       | house.
        
         | gosub100 wrote:
         | If a buffet consistently runs out of items they wont be popular
         | for long. However, I think you've stumbled on an interesting
         | point. I wonder if they could squeeze more profit by charging 2
         | rates: "prime time" and "after hours". If the buffet was $30 at
         | prime-time, you would be promised that nothing is run-out.
         | Let's say that window runs from 11:45am - 1:15pm. Then sell
         | economy-class half-price tickets that are still AYCE, but some
         | of the good stuff might be picked clean or have limited
         | quantity.
         | 
         | This comes with the assumptions that 1) food waste should be
         | minimized (i.e. can't be sold the next day, or less ideal to
         | serve it at dinner hour if it was cooked for lunch), 2) the $15
         | customer would almost never pay $30, or very little overlap.
        
       | somethoughts wrote:
       | In this post covid and high labor cost era - it'd be interesting
       | if there will be any innovative company that attempts a Japanese
       | conveyor belt sushi (i.e. pay $N dollars per dish of pre-plated
       | food) setup but with Western style appetizers/Tapas.
        
         | wkat4242 wrote:
         | We have some of these in Barcelona. They're great actually.
         | 
         | It's 12EUR for 4 plates or 15EUR unlimited with a drink, and
         | really good quality overall.
        
       | lukev wrote:
       | I love articles like this. I'd happily read a book with each
       | chapter breaking down the unit economics of a given type of
       | business.
       | 
       | Also, I can't help but recount an anecdote from the last time I
       | was at an all-you-can-eat place... conveyor-belt sushi with my
       | kids.
       | 
       | A pair of guys came in and sat at the table next to us. They said
       | a loud ironic prayer begging indulgence for "the sins we are
       | about to commit" as they sat down... then proceeded to _unwrap_
       | all the fish rolls, eating the contents as sashimi and discarding
       | the rice and veggies on a tray on their table. By the time we
       | left there was probably 8 lbs of rice on the tray... can't
       | believe they weren't kicked out.
        
         | ww520 wrote:
         | Deliberate food wasters are despicable.
        
           | stronglikedan wrote:
           | It's rice. It's not like they're wasting anything
           | significant, like the meat of an animal that gave its life.
           | But still, the restaurant should have charged them for it at
           | least, like every other all you can eat sushi place would
           | have.
        
             | 6LLvveMx2koXfwn wrote:
             | "like the meat of an animal that gave its life." - that's
             | generally not how it works.
        
               | standardUser wrote:
               | Outside of some restaurants in South Korea, we generally
               | only eat dead animals.
        
               | progbits wrote:
               | I assume the GP takes issue with the word "gave", as it
               | was not given but taken.
        
               | tomrod wrote:
               | Can something be taken without being given?
        
             | strken wrote:
             | Bit of a tangent, but nearly all foods have an animal death
             | rate per calorie, so there's no such thing as insignificant
             | food.
             | 
             | The exchange rate is usually better for grains than for
             | e.g. chicken or even beef[0], though.
             | 
             | [0] https://animalvisuals.org/projects/1mc/ Note that I'm a
             | little skeptical of the numbers here, particularly those
             | for grass-fed beef. Not that it matters for the purpose of
             | claiming rice has a cost in lives.
        
             | JohnFen wrote:
             | All food waste is significant.
        
         | byproxy wrote:
         | I've never been to an AYCE sushi joint that didn't charge for
         | the leftovers described in this example, for what it's worth.
        
         | paulorlando wrote:
         | Check out a book called Growth Units, which dives into unit
         | economics across different business types.
        
         | gnicholas wrote:
         | > _I'd happily read a book with each chapter breaking down the
         | unit economics of a given type of business._
         | 
         | Not 100% on-point, but check out Roadside MBA, [1] which was
         | written by a trio of MBA professors. Instead of using the case
         | study method with examples from huge companies, they do a deep
         | dive on small businesses that they visited on cross-country
         | roadtrips. Very entertaining and accessible.
         | 
         | 1: https://www.amazon.com/Roadside-MBA-Entrepreneurs-
         | Executives...
        
           | hilux wrote:
           | The author (Paul Oyer, Yale MBA) also has some entertaining
           | videos, and a book, on the economics of online dating.
        
             | gnicholas wrote:
             | I actually reached out to him to see if he would sign a
             | copy of the book for my daughter, with whom I read the book
             | during COVID. He was happy to do so, and did the same for
             | his new book on the economics of sports.
             | 
             | I don't plan to read the book about online dating with my
             | daughter, but perhaps she'll read it on her own someday!
        
         | onlyrealcuzzo wrote:
         | I've toyed around with the idea of doing an article where the
         | spreadsheet gets progressively more complicated with how to
         | model major business types.
         | 
         | Maybe I should do it!
        
           | treyfitty wrote:
           | Please do. I for one would be interested!
        
             | itishappy wrote:
             | Seconded!
        
         | stevenwoo wrote:
         | Sometimes NPR's Planet Money podcast does this but it's
         | generally 10-15 minutes at a pop coverage of a specific theory
         | or news item for general audience, they covered buffets
         | recently in a different way
         | 
         | https://www.npr.org/2023/10/27/1197954459/all-you-can-eat-bu...
        
           | WheatMillington wrote:
           | I find NPR Planet Money to be the shallowest and most
           | unsatisfying of takes possible on pretty much every issue
           | they take on.
        
         | euroderf wrote:
         | Have pondered slurping down pizza toppings and discarding the
         | crusts...
        
         | buu700 wrote:
         | Kicked out for what? If they want to disincentivize wasting
         | rice, they should charge for leftovers and offer sashimi as an
         | upsell. If they don't, that's on the restaurant.
        
           | wizerdrobe wrote:
           | Ultimately depends on the restaurant - we had an AYCE sushi,
           | hibachi restaurant we loved with a style different than a
           | conveyor belt that gracefully handled the issue.
           | 
           | The restaurant had a to-go by-weight option. For the dine in
           | patrons, you would check boxes on a menu slip with your
           | order, quantity, etc.
           | 
           | Their menu included a simple request that patrons reasonably
           | finish each plate before submitting a new order, that being
           | honest kept their prices reasonable, and that patrons wasting
           | entire orders would be charged on a per-weight basis for the
           | wasted order at their discretion.
        
           | jimjimjim wrote:
           | That line of thinking usually pairs with 'If there isn't a
           | law against it then it must be Ok'. So the world becomes
           | burdened with complex rules and laws to prevent people having
           | to live in a hellscape of Jerks.
        
             | buu700 wrote:
             | I don't eat rice; I've been strictly keto for over a
             | decade. My health choices make me a jerk?
             | 
             | Some people are allergic to rice. Some people are on
             | medically prescribed diets. Maybe there's an obscure
             | religion that forbids eating rice. Some people just don't
             | like rice. Are they all jerks too?
             | 
             | That restaurant wouldn't be my preference, but if I did
             | have to be there for an important reason, I certainly
             | wouldn't be bullied into eating something I didn't want to
             | eat. I'm generally strict about wasting food, but in that
             | situation I wouldn't feel even slightly guilty about it.
        
               | JohnFen wrote:
               | Ordering a dish that is mostly rice knowing that you
               | won't/can't eat it is being a jerk, yes. I don't know
               | about that restaurant, but I've never seen a sushi place
               | that didn't also serve sashimi.
        
               | buu700 wrote:
               | "If they want to disincentivize wasting rice, they should
               | charge for leftovers and offer sashimi as an upsell."
        
               | wizerdrobe wrote:
               | You could always speak with the staff about your dietary
               | restrictions as is standard practice for the allergic,
               | intolerant, and such.
               | 
               | If they can accommodate your request, and they typically
               | will, you're golden. If not, you may need to patronize a
               | different business. It is, after all, a reciprocal
               | relationship. If your basic needs aren't met, and they
               | have a stiff policy on substitution - then yes, you are a
               | jerk for ignoring them.
        
               | buu700 wrote:
               | Exactly my point.
        
               | burnished wrote:
               | You're probably focusing on the wrong thing if you're
               | jumping to the defense of people who leave things on the
               | plate for any reason.
               | 
               | The actual controversy here is that the folks in the
               | story clearly thought they were cheating the system, and
               | people are responding without questioning that, and some
               | people are questioning that.
        
           | rngname22 wrote:
           | Because living in a world where every bad behavior is
           | prevented through enforcement mechanisms and bureaucratic
           | procedure sucks ass, compared to a world where people
           | generally speaking follow a social contract. If you can't
           | understand why then you might not be thinking about it hard
           | enough. It introduces friction, especially on those who would
           | already have behaved well.
        
             | paulddraper wrote:
             | This is the internet after all.
        
         | jjulius wrote:
         | >By the time we left there was probably 8 lbs of rice on the
         | tray... can't believe they weren't kicked out.
         | 
         | Why should they be? It's likely that the restaurant still
         | charged them for the full price of the plates that were removed
         | from the belt, regardless of whether or not they ate everything
         | that was on said plate.
         | 
         | If they're otherwise quiet, respectful and paying customers,
         | what about picking apart their food warrants kicking them out?
         | As another user suggested, what happens if you don't eat the
         | crust at a pizza joint?
        
           | ender341341 wrote:
           | it sounds like it was an all you can eat place, the few one I
           | go to has signs up saying if you don't eat what you take you
           | may be charged an extra plate (I've never seen them actually
           | enforce it, I assume it's more for people who go make a giant
           | bowl and then eat almost none of it).
        
             | jjulius wrote:
             | Conveyor-belt sushi does not charge the same way a
             | traditional "all you can eat" buffet restaurant charges.
             | See my comment here[0].
             | 
             | [0]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38562309
        
               | lukev wrote:
               | This one does/did.
        
           | paulddraper wrote:
           | > the restaurant still charged them for the full price of the
           | plate
           | 
           | At all-you-can-eat buffets, customers are charged a flat
           | rate, not per plate.
           | 
           | Obviously this breaks down if people are taking plates of
           | food and chucking them in the trash.
           | 
           | EDIT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ro2_bQkaG5U&t=84s
        
             | burnished wrote:
             | No this anecdote is about conveyor belt sushi, which in my
             | experience is pay by the color coded plate
        
               | lukev wrote:
               | No, in this case, it was a flat rate up front.
               | 
               | Basically 100% a buffet except the table moves to you
               | (which, to the point of the original article, waiting for
               | your preferred sushi to come around probably slows down
               | consumption and improves the economics)
               | 
               | Obviously if people want to buy food and waste it that's
               | on them. But this was a pretty clear abuse of the
               | restaurant's business model as well.
        
             | jjulius wrote:
             | OP specifically specifies that this was a "conveyor-belt
             | sushi" restaurant. Those are only "all you can eat" in the
             | sense that you're welcome to pull as many plates as you'd
             | like off of the belt, but each plate is usually priced at
             | one of a few different levels, and you will be charged for
             | the total value of the plates you removed from the belt.
             | 
             | Eg, if yellow plates are $1, blue plates are $2, and orange
             | plates are $3, and you pulled two orange plates, a blue
             | plate and a yellow plate, your total would come out to $9
             | even if you didn't clear your plates.
        
               | lukev wrote:
               | That's not how this place works, and clearly it would
               | have been less offensive behavior if it was.
        
               | paulddraper wrote:
               | So either that isn't all-you-can-eat, or I don't
               | understand the definition of all-you-can-eat.
        
               | sokoloff wrote:
               | "All you can eat" rarely means "you can eat as much as
               | you can afford" but rather means "you pay one price and
               | can eat as much as you like for that price".
               | 
               | That a conveyor belt is involved doesn't change the
               | offer.
        
           | lukev wrote:
           | This place charged a flat fee at the door, then everything
           | inside is all-you-can-eat.
        
             | jjulius wrote:
             | Interesting, I've never seen that at a conveyor-belt sushi
             | joint before. That's not how they traditionally operate.
        
               | bigstrat2003 wrote:
               | There's a conveyor belt hot pot by me which does it both
               | ways. You choose whether everyone at the table will do
               | the normal method where they count up your plates and
               | price based on the color, or pay a flat rate for however
               | much you wish to eat. In the case of the latter, they
               | reserve the right to tack on a fee if you're wasting
               | food.
        
           | Tade0 wrote:
           | Most all-you-can-eat places I've been to have rules against
           | food waste.
        
         | paddy_m wrote:
         | The profit calculator from NYMag was a great series of articles
         | about the economics of business from investment banks, to drug
         | dealers, to yoga studios.
         | https://nymag.com/news/features/2007/profit/
        
       | porridgeraisin wrote:
       | In India all you can eat pizza is pretty popular. You pay ~350
       | INR per person for non-vegetarian and ~250-300 INR per person for
       | vegetarian. It's pretty good.
       | 
       | The trick they use is a large fizzy complimentary drink up front,
       | which reduces your hunger for the first set of pizzas which take
       | a bit to arrive.
        
         | euroderf wrote:
         | Yup avoid the fizzy stuff. And also I've noticed in the US that
         | the salad dressings can have noticeable sugar content.
        
       | zwieback wrote:
       | Planet Money (best podcast of all times) did an episode on this a
       | while back: https://www.npr.org/transcripts/1197954459
        
       | foreigner wrote:
       | My tiny, 5 foot tall, 90 pound mother _loved_ buffets. When she
       | walked in you could almost see the owners doing a cash-money
       | victory dance.
        
       | Kon-Peki wrote:
       | I worked at an all-you-can-eat buffet as a teenager in the 1990s.
       | 
       | Our big fill-you-up-cheap item was pizza. The ingredient cost for
       | pizza is ridiculously low, even for above-average quality
       | ingredients. An entire pizza was likely $0.50 or so, depending on
       | toppings.
       | 
       | The restaurant oven was this giant gas-fired thing with 5 or 6
       | circular, rotating stone surfaces with each set to its own
       | temperature. The pizza stone was set somewhere between 550 and
       | 600deg F.
       | 
       | My main job was making the pizza, and they were good. Definitely
       | better than anything you could get at a Pizza Hut or Dominos or
       | Little Caesars. People would even ask for custom pizzas, and
       | management didn't care. You put it out on the buffet line and
       | wave at them so they know it's ready. Of course, while they're
       | waiting they aren't eating other things...
       | 
       | The restaurant also had a little game room with arcade machines
       | that spit out tickets for cheap prizes. Kids would have a slice
       | or two of pizza and then run off to play games, making their
       | visits especially profitable.
        
         | xanderlewis wrote:
         | > all-you-can-eat
         | 
         | > pizza
         | 
         | > cheap
         | 
         | > arcade machines
         | 
         | This all sounds too much like heaven to be true.
        
       | trevyn wrote:
       | ProTip: Many university cafeterias are all-you-can-eat and open
       | to the public.
        
       | bilsbie wrote:
       | What's the best way to find all you can eat places? I don't think
       | there are any in my area so I want to make a road trip.
        
       | francisofascii wrote:
       | > starches like potatoes might only cost the restaurant $0.30 per
       | serving, compared to $2.25 per serving for steak.
       | 
       | What you need is a hybrid buffet, in which each person gets a
       | certain limit of meat, but unlimited of all the cheaper food.
        
         | nerdbert wrote:
         | There were, and probably still are, restaurants where you pay
         | for the meat item and then get access to the unlimited "salad"
         | bar which includes a wide range of other stuff.
        
         | whartung wrote:
         | Souplantation was like this.
         | 
         | You could go through the salad bar, the soup, and bread line as
         | much as you want.
         | 
         | But on the salad bar, most of the actual proteins (I should say
         | non-vegetable proteins -- all the garbanzos you can eat!) were
         | an extra unit charge.
         | 
         | The "secret" was that they always had Chicken Noodle Soup, so
         | folks would go there and simply pick out all the chicken,
         | leaving the broth and noodles. Which was, honestly, pretty
         | annoying.
         | 
         | Souplantation gave up with COVID. They literally threw in the
         | towel, and shut the entire chain down.
        
       | conductr wrote:
       | I have a masochistic interest in opening a restaurant of some
       | sort one day and one thing I'm pretty adamant about is owning my
       | property. I live in an area where that is feasible and obviously
       | it's not in many areas/cities. But, seeing that rent is 3x profit
       | on this validates my back of envelope math. I don't want to be
       | working for a landlord that's going to be constantly upping my
       | rent. It's obviously a bit more capital intensive but it's also
       | an asset that can be sold if the business doesn't work out.
       | 
       | All the businesses I observe come and go it's usually something
       | about how they opened a hip restaurant in a trendy neighborhood
       | and 5-10 years later it's fully gentrified and the rent causes
       | them to close shop. Did they make enough profit to offset the
       | cost of the leasehold improvement investment? I'm guessing not in
       | that short amount of time. Meanwhile, the businesses that are
       | family owned and have been around for 50+ years have no rent
       | expenses and can weather some ups and downs more gracefully. They
       | also get to have a reasonable profit to live on.
        
       | Animats wrote:
       | I miss Fresh Choice, the mostly-vegetarian buffet. They went
       | broke because the buffet itself was a lose and they were making
       | money on the extras.[1]
       | 
       | [1] https://www.mashed.com/1374299/chain-restaurant-buffets-
       | disa...
        
       | charlieyu1 wrote:
       | It is pretty big in Asia. All you can eat sushi/sashimi is
       | everywhere in Hong Kong, not that expensive, great experience for
       | everyone.
       | 
       | When I moved to UK I realised the difference. I can only eat like
       | maybe 70% compared to an average Westerner so it is always much
       | more expensive for me.
        
       | SamuelAdams wrote:
       | I wonder if those economics also apply to software, ie "unlimited
       | data storage" service providers.
        
       | lvl102 wrote:
       | My local Chinese restaurant stop doing their lunch and Sunday
       | buffets during COVID. I asked the owner whether she would bring
       | it back after the pandemic and she basically told me she makes
       | 3-4x the profit off of take outs alone. And she'd cut dining-in
       | too if she could. Restaurant business dramatically changed as a
       | result of pandemic.
        
       | ExMachina73 wrote:
       | In most restaurants, the food itself is a loss leader. The real
       | money is in booze and drinks. Why most diners back east have a
       | bar. All the money is made in the bar drinks.
        
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