[HN Gopher] Mold Course
___________________________________________________________________
Mold Course
Author : tosh
Score : 304 points
Date : 2023-12-06 12:58 UTC (10 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.epa.gov)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.epa.gov)
| lovasoa wrote:
| I initially thought this would be about the mold linker
| (https://github.com/rui314/mold)
| justinclift wrote:
| Heh, I was hoping it was something to do with designing
| industrial injection moulds or similar. :)
| DonHopkins wrote:
| I was hoping it was a course or tutorial about nurturing,
| cultivating, and simulating friendly slime mold, not brutally
| eradicating harmful fungoidal mold!
|
| Like these fascinating tutorials about visually programmed
| Slime Mold Simulations using Blender's simulation and
| geometry nodes:
|
| Slime Mold Simulation Nodes Tutorial (Blender 3.6a)
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_eHAsC9OoA
|
| Simulation Nodes Tutorial: Slime Splattering Generator |
| Blender 3.6 Geometry Nodes
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUzfJPlBzIs
|
| Tutorial | Grow Cordyceps Fungus in Blender 3.5+
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LOaFbbTSZQ
|
| Slime free Add-On for Blender 3.1
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJEvaeTNCkw
|
| Slime Mold Effect
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FMSgOAoq7Q
|
| Another Slime Mold Simulation
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Y5nyeeuDug
|
| Random Projects in Blender (Physarum Transport)
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBQk3uiKSE0
|
| Blender 3.6 Physarum Simulation! (Part 2)
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ycc-D6ITOOs
|
| Grid-Based Physarum Simulation
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lU8qQF-5Qtw
|
| Physarum (Slime Mold) Simulation in Blender! (Final Part)
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErIZn8WPr08
|
| Physarum Simulation Test (Blender 3.5)
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcaHXVZZUIk
|
| Blender 3.6 Physarum Simulation!
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQY8UOoto7I
| xutopia wrote:
| Funny thing I'm actually learning to grow the right mold in my
| charcuterie.
| davemp wrote:
| Seems like a pretty reasonable guide from my quick read. The most
| important thing for people to know is the following snippet:
|
| > It is impossible to eliminate all mold and mold spores in the
| indoor environment. However, mold growth can be controlled
| indoors by controlling moisture indoors.
|
| Dealing with mold is pretty easy, just get everything dry. No
| need to go crazy tearing the building apart to hunt for
| dormant/dead mold (obviously there is a correlation of moldy
| building with neglected buildings so you might have to
| demo/repair anyways). If air quality is a concern that can be
| addressed monitoring/filtering.
|
| Afaik mold is only a big topic because of lawyers seeing a nice
| liability and the media a spooky story.
| baobabKoodaa wrote:
| > Dealing with mold is pretty easy, just get everything dry.
|
| No, that's not enough. Dormant/dead mold can still cause air
| quality problems. In most cases damaged material needs to be
| replaced. In some cases it's sufficient to isolate the damaged
| material to reduce its impact on air quality.
|
| I'm from Finland and it seems that we treat mold much more
| seriously compared to other countries. I don't know if Finnish
| people have a genetic or environmental effect that makes people
| much more susceptible to get symptoms in moldy buildings, but
| it's super weird reading about how other countries treat
| mold...
| giantg2 wrote:
| In fairness, they did say monitoring air quality was part of
| the solution. If you get it dry and clean any visible mold,
| then the air tests come back fine, it shouldn't be an issue.
| The air tests are the only way to really know.
| dumbfounder wrote:
| Are you talking about those petri dishes you put out? I
| have heard from a trusted mold expert that they just always
| show up positive. I don't know that I trust that, but the
| problem is that every house actually has mold, and in many
| places, and who knows what's actually contributing to the
| problems. Are massive air purifiers enough to mitigate the
| issues? Can you just tackle the surface molds? Maybe these
| questions are answered in the mold course, I need to take
| it asap.
| baobabKoodaa wrote:
| > Are massive air purifiers enough to mitigate the
| issues?
|
| As far as I know, air purifiers do not filter mold
| related particles in the air to any useful amount.
| ponector wrote:
| Depends on the model. HEPA filters can filter mold
| particles.
| baobabKoodaa wrote:
| It's not possible to reliably test if the air has harmful
| amounts/species of mold or not. The air quality tests
| contaminate very easily and even when they don't
| contaminate, there is a lot of uncertainty with the
| results, and given any particular results, different people
| will opine different interpretations of them...
| ponector wrote:
| Yes, for European it is weird to read.
|
| I think this is a big issue in US because the way they build
| houses, mainly with wood and gypsum. In case of water damage
| it is really hard to dry those materials.
| digging wrote:
| Typically in the US, nobody at any point in the process gives
| a shit if a home is or will become moldy, except sometimes
| the person living in the home. It's especially bad for
| renters who in many states have almost no legal protections
| (and if they do have them, accessing them is incredibly
| difficult).
| notslow wrote:
| > Afaik mold is only a big topic because of lawyers seeing a
| nice liability and the media a spooky story.
|
| Unfortunately, mold is also a growing health concern for a
| sizable portion of the population. My family got severely ill
| from a moldy house, and it is taking us years to fully recover.
| The longer we have been aware the more and more folks we find
| are dealing with something similar.
|
| The EPA Guide is a great start, but in our experience lacks
| some situational nuance that might increase its helpfulness.
| Each person reacts differently mold, some folks are just more
| sensitive than others. There are no federal standards for mold,
| either for allowable amounts in your home or guidelines for
| construction. So depending on your health response you may in
| fact need to go crazy tearing apart your house to hunt for
| mold.
|
| After talking with ~30 different mold remediators, inspectors,
| remodeling contractors, etc. We got ~30 different responses for
| possible causes for mold in our our home. Ultimately, the cost
| to fix the true sources of mold in our home (due the sources
| being related to construction practices around the foundation)
| was equivalent to new construction. We ended up tearing down
| the moldy house. We're hoping to move into our new house late
| next spring!
| giantg2 wrote:
| Some people charge insane prices. I can't believe a
| foundation issue would cost as much as new construction. It's
| not that hard to put in a French drain, even if the house
| needs to be cribbed up due to structural issues.
| notslow wrote:
| I know, seems crazy from the outside looking in, but
| nothing was particularly outrageously priced (and we did
| get several estimates from all sorts of people). To be
| fair, it wasn't just the foundation. Because of the mold in
| the basement the rest of the house also became contaminated
| and needed to be remediated (and my family is now super
| sensitive). I will also note that this during COVID so
| prices were somewhat higher than they are now. Believe me
| we did not set out to tear down our house, but that ended
| up being the best way to address the issues with the old
| house.
| mrsirduke wrote:
| I have a similar story, but in our case it was a rental house
| in the Bay Area. It's been 3 years and who knows how many
| temporary places to live, and we're still not even close to
| recovery.
|
| We ended up with the realization that the rental housing
| stock in the Bay Area are all very old, usually not well
| maintained and depending on the area, very likely to have or
| have had water damage, the only thing we could do to get into
| newly built housing, was to rent an apartment.
|
| The amount of bad information and advise is pretty staggering
| - if you're adversely reacting to the environment you're in,
| the best thing you can do is remove yourself from it, then
| accept that you may never be able to return to it.
|
| Anyway, this all sounds very familiar and you're welcome to
| reach out to me at <hn-name>@icloud.com - and that goes for
| anyone else dealing with similar stuff.
| davemp wrote:
| If you're living in a house without active water issues (roof
| leak, foundation leak, etc), proper
| filtration/ventilation/de-humidification, and are still
| having reactions to mold; it's probably best to just move
| (like you found out). No need to tear apart the current
| house.
|
| If you need supreme indoor air quality, that'd take the
| following:
|
| - A fairly air tight building envelope - Proper WRB and
| insulation strategy (exterior+interior in many places) for
| your climate (including basement) to prevent condensation -
| Adequate continuous ventilation/filtration
|
| Which is not feasible for most housing stock in the USA. You
| might be able to keep the framing, plumping/electrical, and
| foundation (if you're lucky). Framing is relatively cheap
| compared to the rest of the house.
| blub wrote:
| What kind of issues did you have with the foundation?
|
| There's many individual damage symptoms, but typically
| humidity somehow enters through the walls of the basement,
| making them damp/wet and thereby leading to mould
| infestation.
|
| The expensive but thorough solution is to dig around the
| foundation and install a vertical damp-proof course around
| the outside walls. The walls would additionally require
| drying and depending on building material removing the old
| plaster and re-plastering.
|
| If a concrete floor is damp, the culprit would be a crack
| which can be sealed with special injected sealants. If it's
| an older type of floor, it may need to be replaced with
| concrete.
|
| How did the basement infest the rest of the house, just
| regular air transfer or did humidity rise through the walls
| and caused infestation in the above-ground rooms?
| gregwebs wrote:
| It is becoming a big topic because more people are becoming
| sensitive to mold exposure and more time is being spent
| indoors. Think of how the prevalence of allergies has increased
| dramatically in our society. Something similar may be happening
| with mold except at orders of magnitude lower prevalence.
| Actually there are theories that similar pathways are involved
| with allergies and mold- that mold triggers immune reactions
| just like allergies.
|
| When I learned about mold sensitivity I got concerned and
| started doing mold tests and looking out for mold exposure but
| eventually realized that nobody in my family is mold sensitive.
| The "not a big deal" attitude is right for most people, but we
| should be sensitive to those that are highly mold sensitive.
| kijin wrote:
| Exposure to mold is also likely to be correlated with
| socioeconomic status, especially in more humid parts of the
| country. Think what kind of people are most likely to live in
| rundown houses (or even basements!) barely above the water
| table, without a functioning HVAC unit.
|
| Mold is the kind of problem that is at most a nuisance for
| people who have the means to do something about it, but
| seemingly unsolvable for people who actually need a solution.
| notslow wrote:
| This! One of the best solutions to prevent mold is to
| improve energy efficiency. There are an increasing number
| of grant programs and Housing improvement initiatives
| available, but still those improvements are out of reach
| for a lot of people. We live in the Southeast US which is
| incredibly humid and so many houses have issues.
| bonton89 wrote:
| Houses are a lot tighter than they were in the past which
| makes it harder for them to "dry out" unless you have some
| kind of air circulation system. My house certainly doesn't
| and it wouldn't be easy to retrofit.
| giantg2 wrote:
| I don't know about that. Most new houses have air
| conditions for the hot humid days and a heater for the cold
| days. Most fully below grade basements have dehumidifiers
| in wet climates. I've never had issues with moisture except
| in cases of some system failure, like a sump pump.
| ponector wrote:
| Apartments in our block have air-tight windows and doors.
| But also there are passive ventilation input in every room,
| which allow flow of some fresh air through closed windows.
| Central ventilation is constantly taking air from the
| apartment so we have no issues with excess moisture. Some
| people even put a humidifier during cold months to get
| moisture level up to 50%.
| eggy wrote:
| Yes, time spent indoors, and the West's obsession with anti-
| septic environments. I bought a little cabin on a lake in NJ
| after moving from NY. I didn't bother sealing every crack and
| nook with sealant given my energy bill was reasonable, and I
| liked the fresh air exchange over time. Friends moved up
| there and built air-tight houses with all the modern
| materials with foams, glues, carpet backing, tiling and other
| products that need a significant time to off gas, trap
| particulate and moisture, and as we now know, mold can thrive
| on almost anything with moisture. Anecdotal, but it seemed
| they were at the doctor's office 2 to 3x per year vs. my kids
| only going for checkups. People are now hypersensitive to so
| many things, and I believe a lot is due to this approach to
| what it means have a healthy home and household. I have
| raised 4 children, and aside from some mildly annoying
| hayfever for a very short period for 2 of them, they are
| mostly non-allergic and I am grateful, have no medicinal
| allergies. I also think we have grown a bit hypochondriacal
| and have actually fed into this phenomenon. There are even
| studies claiming 50% more likelihood to contract MS if you
| are exposed to the solvents or chemicals in paint thinners
| and household cleaning solutions. Even "organic" products in
| large amounts do not bode well for most people's health, so
| housing construction that claims to be "organic" with low VOC
| elements used sometimes doesn't even address the need for
| sufficient air exchange with fresh air over environmental
| ratings on windows, appliances, etc. Somewhere in the middle
| there is a happy medium from my natural materials, drafty
| cabin, and an air-tight, "organic" material house. We had
| mold in the attic and it was black and after reading about it
| back in the late 90s early 2000s I went up and cleaned the
| rafters with Clorox (yes, chlorine, I know. My nuclear
| solution!). and opened the once-closed off ceiling to the
| attic. I put in skylights and opened up the A-frame for more
| air and light. Nobody in my family at the time, including my
| newborns seems to have suffered from having lived with this
| black mold, but evidently, there are many and I am not sure
| how prevalent dangerous black mold is from your generic black
| mold, but as I have said earlier, anything in too large a
| quantity can be deleterious to your health. Too much grain
| dust in the air would irritate you too and in high enough
| concentrations probably kill you over time!
| 2devnull wrote:
| My sensitivity appeared to change after living in a moldy
| apartment. I originally scoffed that mold was an overhyped
| problem, but it caused problems for me that persist years
| later. I am now very sensitive to damp/moldy air and have to
| take an allergy pill everyday for indoor allergies.
| nix0n wrote:
| > just get everything dry
|
| In many places this is not easy.
| dumbfounder wrote:
| I have chronic vestibular migraines and it has been suggested by
| a few that mold might be triggering them. I am just starting to
| go down that rabbit hole so this is very timely!
| kathysgeek wrote:
| Chronic Inflammatory Response Syndrome is the mother of all
| rabbit holes. But after suffering severe multi-system symptoms
| for many years I 90% recovered. Several experts in the field
| have told me that most if not all migraines are due to
| environmental exposure to toxins (mold and actinomycetes).
|
| Environmental illness is real with measurable physiological
| effects. And it is treatable.
|
| https://www.survivingmold.com/
| https://www.survivingmold.com/docs/SHOEMAKER_PROTOCOL_ESSAY_...
| dumbfounder wrote:
| What kind of doctor did you go to and what kinds of testing
| did it take? How long did it take once you figured out what
| was going on to get to 90% better? My neurologist seems
| disinterested in finding the root cause. I even had to
| diagnose myself and then go to several doctors until one
| agreed. I take migraine meds and they help a lot so far,
| especially Ubrelvy, but it is $100/pill and I am not sure it
| will be covered by insurance.
| notslow wrote:
| If you are concerned about mold being a cause, there are
| couple of urine tests for mycotoxins that were super
| helpful for us understanding the mysterious illness in our
| family.
| dumbfounder wrote:
| What kind of doctor do I go to and what are the name of
| the tests?
| notslow wrote:
| You need to find a functional health practitioner, and be
| willing to try many different practitioners. It took us
| several tries to find a practitioner who was willing to
| test for mold. If you aren't familiar, functional
| practitioners focus on the root cause of medical issues
| rather than just symptoms. We found success with a
| functional nurse practitioner, though they capped out and
| we have moved on.
|
| There are two tests we do periodically:
| https://realtimelab.com
| https://mosaicdx.com/test/mycotox-profile/
|
| You may be able to find ways to get the tests directly
| (not through a health practitioner) if that ends up being
| the path you need. They are not cheap and not typically
| covered by insurance, but we found being mysteriously ill
| was way more expensive in the long run than paying for
| tests. May your path to healing be a straight one!
| kathysgeek wrote:
| Unfortunately, urine mycotoxin testing is not
| diagnostically significant.
|
| "Even if we are presented with impeccable lab results
| from ELISA and thorough use of standard differential
| diagnosis (we aren't), based on world-wide control data,
| and a robust literature on CIRS, there is no basis to
| ascribe any diagnostic significance to urine mycotoxin
| testing" https://www.survivingmold.com/Publications/Urina
| ry_mycotoxin...
|
| However, there are significant blood tests including
| Transforming Growth Factor Beta-1 and Complement C4-A.
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TGF_beta_1
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C4A
| notslow wrote:
| I recognize urine mycotoxin tests are potentially
| controversial, but these tests were very diagnostically
| significant for us and our mold journey. The mycotoxins
| that were off the charts in our tests matched the mold
| that was eventually found in our house (after multiple
| mold inspectors missed it).
|
| This area is definitely more "gray" than implied by your
| comment. I have tremendous respect for Shoemaker, but
| there are some gaps in that paper that did not appear to
| address how our practitioner used those tests for us.
| Many of the studies mentioned in the meta-review focus on
| the presence or absence of mycotoxins not the measured
| amount. Also, our practitioner used the test "backwards"
| compared to procedure outlines in the review paper. Our
| practitioner used the test before we had any evidence
| that we lived in a water-damaged building, whereas the
| paper is specifically focused on determining cause of
| illness after exposure to a water-damaged building.
| kathysgeek wrote:
| I highly recommend reading about it at
| https://www.survivingmold.com/resources-for-
| patients/diagnos...
|
| You can do a visual contrast sensitivity test online:
| https://www.survivingmold.com/store/online-vcs-screening
|
| I have been treated by Dr Shoemaker and am currently being
| treated by Dr Scott McMahon who is an expert researcher in
| the field. Call him and set up a consultation. There is a
| fair amount of blood tests but your symptom history and VCS
| tests will go a long way toward diagnosis.
|
| YMMV, but after initial treatment I felt 40% better in 6
| months. Ensuring a clean environment is critical. It took
| 5+ years of treatment to reach the 90% improvement.
|
| However, each person is unique. Younger and less
| genetically susceptible patients improve much quicker.
|
| https://www.survivingmold.com/shoemaker-protocol/list-of-
| cer...
| computer23 wrote:
| Ritchie Shoemaker is a quack with a long disciplinary
| history:
|
| https://quackwatch.org/cases/board/med/shoemaker/consent/
|
| Unlike mold-caused asthma and allergies, "Toxic mold illness"
| and CIRS (Chronic Inflammatory Response Syndrome) are not
| real conditions, as described in a recent Australian report:
|
| https://www.health.gov.au/resources/publications/biotoxins-i.
| ..
|
| "Toxic mold illness" is a popular scam among the grifters who
| market themselves as integrative/functional/naturopathic:
| https://www.thedailybeast.com/why-is-the-internet-so-
| obsesse...
|
| The CDC warned against urine testing promoted by the "toxic
| mold" scammers:
| https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6406a7.htm
| throwuwu wrote:
| Remember to get your heatpump cleaned
| darken wrote:
| +1 ours got _so_ moldy inside. Especially after the hardwood
| installers ran them while sanding. I 've gotten quite good at
| deep cleaning and sterilizing them, but it's a long and messy
| process.
| david422 wrote:
| Is there something that needs to be done other than the
| filters?
| baobabKoodaa wrote:
| Yes. The mesh grid and all the plastics around it. It's not
| really possible to deep clean without specific equipment.
| 12bits wrote:
| This is oddly relevant to my recently discovered disaster in the
| basement bathroom.
| dav43 wrote:
| They should send this to every landlord in Singapore that gives
| zero fs about tenant safety.
|
| It's a national disgrace.
| ccampbell wrote:
| Mold is being remediated in my house as I type this. My wife and
| I have been dealing with insidious symptoms for years (brain fog,
| joint pain, anxiety, muscle stiffness, balance issues,
| neuropathy, increased ADHD, and more). Only recently did we
| discover that there was black mold (Stachybotrys chartarum) in
| both our bedroom and in the air supply trunk located after the
| air handler. The bedroom mold was caused by an inactive leak that
| must have been there before we ever bought the house. The air
| handler was due to poor installation alongside high humidity.
|
| We've already noticed a huge decrease in symptoms about 10 days
| after the air handler was pulled.
| bqmjjx0kac wrote:
| Wow, that is kind of terrifying! How did you find the mold?
| ccampbell wrote:
| I've seen about every doctor possible and finally got a
| diagnosis of Mast Cell Activation Syndrome (MCAS). The doctor
| said many of his patients suffer from mold. He recommended a
| whole home mold inspection.
|
| The inspector only discovered mold in the air handler itself,
| which isn't too uncommon. We could have just cleaned the
| handler coils but decided to pull the entire thing just to be
| sure. Only after it was pulled did we see about a 15 foot
| long stretch of mold going directly into our ductwork.
|
| In the bedroom we were replacing our carpet with hardwood
| floors and discovered a 10 foot mold stretch behind the
| baseboards.
| graphe wrote:
| I suggest looking into an air quality sensor, plantower is
| the best. Purple air uses them for the network.
| https://www2.purpleair.com/
|
| Methylene blue is worth looking into as a treatment as
| well. Best of luck, I was brain fogged and inactive for
| years not knowing my issues.
| tinco wrote:
| How does an air quality sensor help with finding mold?
| jamiek88 wrote:
| It doesn't.
|
| He's all over this thread with a very warped
| understanding of mold and mold treatment with some
| misunderstood NIH paper about Candida.
|
| He's recommending self prescribing dangerous MAOI
| containing substances without acknowledging how easily
| those can conflict with other drugs and diets.
|
| I wish these people would at least understand what they
| are regurgitating from poorly understood websites.
|
| I've got people trying to give horse dewormer to my stage
| 4 cancer friend too.
|
| It's infuriating.
| sizzle wrote:
| thanks for calling out that dangerous comment
| graphe wrote:
| The plantower can detect particle sizes including that of
| mold. It won't tell you there's mold but it can tell you
| about mold sized particles. I think it's PM10 but the
| worst is 2.5 and less.
| cjbgkagh wrote:
| You might want to try and rule out Hypermobile Ehlers
| Danlos Syndrome (hEDS) while you're at it. There is a huge
| overlap in symptoms. Bear in mind the Beighton score has
| high a false negative rate and the difference between HSD
| and hEDS disappears whenever you look at the stats closely.
| It appears that many mold and lyme disease symptoms are
| triggers for pre-existing hEDS.
| ccampbell wrote:
| Yeah, I have EDS hypermobility also. Surprisingly, my
| joint stability and muscle strength already seem better
| just being out of the mold.
| cjbgkagh wrote:
| You might have some better luck with hEDS specific
| treatments, low dose naltrexone, low dose modafinil,
| supplemental T3 hormone, weightlifting if you can,
| metformin and a very low sugar diet. And perhaps
| supplemental Test and HGH.
| user3939382 wrote:
| Does anyone know of a real-time (analog or digital) detection
| sensor for mold? All I've been able to find are kits that you buy
| and snail mail samples to a lab which strikes me as a giant pain.
| notslow wrote:
| I don't know of anything, but will buy if one exists. Closest
| thing that is out there are Indoor Air Quality (IAQ) detectors,
| some of the expensive ones detect particles as small as mold
| but the IAQ detectors can't tell you that it is mold, only that
| particulates of a certain size are present.
| Joel_Mckay wrote:
| The issue is Fungi are everywhere, all the time, and without
| exception (even feeding in nuclear disasters). They predate
| most forms of life, majority are harmless or beneficial, and
| the genetics vary widely. For example, Yeasts are just about
| everywhere...
|
| I would recommend Paul Stamets books for their accessibility,
| even if he is probably the weirdest eccentric of our time.
| Seriously weird dude, but an expert on Fungi taxonomy without
| question none the less.
|
| Around this time of year we get Amanita muscaria popping up in
| the yard, and some very oddly behaved squirrels having a bad
| day.
| worthless-trash wrote:
| When I heard "Paul Stamets" and "Fungus" together, my mind
| went to star trek, I find that Stamets is inspired by a real-
| life mycologist of the same name is very cool reference by
| the ST writers.
| Joel_Mckay wrote:
| Sci Fi is always about the present, but the dude certainly
| sounds like he is from another planet at times. It is good
| people are more aware of his work , even if fiction greatly
| underestimates how odd it is in real life =)
| timschmidt wrote:
| Characterizing Paul Stamets as weird or eccentric seems a bit
| off. He's no more weird or eccentric than any other scientist
| I've met. He speaks openly about an experience he had with
| psychedelic mushrooms which he says cured his lifelong
| stuttering, which sent him down the mycological rabbit hole.
| He's worked extensively with the DoD researching
| antimicrobial properties of fungi, his publications look
| sound, and some of that work seems wildly beneficial for
| cancer treatment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7agK0nkiZpA
| user3939382 wrote:
| He was a great guest on Rogan. I take Lion's Mane supplement
| based on research he pointed to that turned out to be pretty
| interesting.
| digging wrote:
| comment withdrawn.
| dragonwriter wrote:
| Animals and plants are the youngest, fungi are
| significantly older, at least almost as old as the oldest
| multicellular life. "Most forms of life" might be an
| overstatement, still, depending on how you count.
| digging wrote:
| My mistake, you're correct, fungi are much older than
| plants. Stupid of me to offer a correction without even a
| cursory search to confirm what I thought I knew.
| sizzle wrote:
| can you take sample and look at it under a microscope maybe?
| twodave wrote:
| As another pointed out, from the fact sheet:
|
| > 2. There is no practical way to eliminate all mold and mold
| spores in the indoor environment; the way to control indoor mold
| growth is to control moisture.
|
| > 10. Molds can be found almost anywhere; they can grow on
| virtually any substance, providing moisture is present. There are
| molds that can grow on wood, paper, carpet, and foods.
|
| But I'd also add:
|
| 11. There are many kinds of mold, some more harmful than others.
| Some are literally penicillin. Some just smell musty, but don't
| pose a threat. Some can cause severe health problems. The only
| way to be certain what type of mold you have is to have it tested
| in a lab.
|
| 12. DO NOT try to clean mold yourself. If you try to do this
| without knowing the proper procedures, you will spread the spores
| all over your house and into your air conditioning system.
| Generally every house has mold in it, somewhere. Exposed molds
| should be remediated, but don't go tearing apart your house to
| find mold (you'll definitely find it if your house/apartment is
| over a certain age).
|
| 13. Bleach doesn't kill mold. It only turns it white. Hydrogen
| Peroxide does kill it. You can by concentrated hydrogen peroxide
| from a lab supply store (we buy 35% and dilute it to 3.5% for
| everyday cleaning). Spray it onto surfaces in a fine mist (don't
| soak things) and leave it for 5 minutes. At this point it's
| mostly stabilized into water that you can wipe away with a paper
| towel or cloth.
|
| 14. Insurance companies really don't like paying for mold
| remediation. We recently uncovered some (Aspergillus, the
| Penicillin mold) below our kitchen sink and had to rip out a
| bunch of cabinets to get it all cleaned out. It coincided with a
| leak we found in our garbage disposal unit, and our insurance
| company (Front Line) is now attempting to intimidate us into
| dropping our claim by using words like fraud and sending forensic
| inspectors to our house.
|
| The best advice I can give is to take pictures before you think
| you need to, especially when it comes to moisture-related damage
| and repairs. We had a plumber come fix our garbage disposal,
| never suspecting we'd be filing an insurance claim, so we didn't
| record as much as we could have or take photos of the initial
| issue, and that may end up costing us.
| Metacelsus wrote:
| >13. Bleach doesn't kill mold. It only turns it white. Hydrogen
| Peroxide does kill it. You can by concentrated hydrogen
| peroxide from a lab supply store (we buy 35% and dilute it to
| 3.5% for everyday cleaning). Spray it onto surfaces in a fine
| mist (don't soak things) and leave it for 5 minutes. At this
| point it's mostly stabilized into water that you can wipe away
| with a paper towel or cloth.
|
| Bleach _does_ kill mold but the concentrations of bleach
| required will also damage the surfaces that it 's on.
| bluGill wrote:
| Bleach can kill mold, but often will not even in high
| concentrations as mold can live in things that do not absorb
| bleach.
| soperj wrote:
| > (Aspergillus, the Penicillin mold)
|
| the Penicillin mold would be Penicillium, Aspergillus is used
| to make Soya Sauce and Sake.
| bregma wrote:
| Aspergillis is commonly known as mildew. It's black.
| twodave wrote:
| Thanks for the clarification. I'm mostly repeating from
| (sometimes bad) memory my conversation with a mold inspector
| from a few weeks ago.
| beardedwalleye wrote:
| regarding 12 -- some mold remediation procedures are relatively
| DIY friendly once you have a bit of knowledge on the subject
|
| regarding 13 - now I'm confused. we're telling people how to
| clean mold when in #12 we're telling people not to clean mold.
| the whole piece here implying it can just be wiped away should
| be removed. simplifying mold cleanup like this is what leads to
| bad DIY jobs.
| twodave wrote:
| That isn't what I meant to imply, but you're not wrong. We
| use the peroxide as a general cleaner, which both sanitizes
| and also kills mold on surfaces.
| aarongray wrote:
| Killing the mold isn't the problem. That's the easy part.
| Denaturing or removing the mycotoxins is the problem. The mold
| doesn't make you sick, it's the mycotoxins that some molds
| excrete that make you sick.
|
| Look at this study that used gamma irradiation, detergent /
| bleach wash, and steam cleaning to test as ways to remove mold
| mycotoxins on paper, cloth, wood, and carpet. Unfortunately
| none of these techniques worked to inactivate mycotoxins, with
| two exceptions. A detergent / bleach wash worked to inactivate
| the mycotoxins on paper and cloth, but not on carpet or
| untreated wood. So porous surfaces must by physically removed
| and trashed to get rid of the mycotoxins. If you cannot
| physically remove it (like untreated wood that is a part of
| your houses' foundation), you must physically sand the mold off
| while using a HEPA vacuum to clean it all up.
|
| https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15238314/
| sokka_h2otribe wrote:
| Could you epoxy seal everything?
| aarongray wrote:
| Sealing works well if there is not visible mold growth on
| the item. So like think about sealing an art canvas in a
| home that had mold in it, but the art canvas was in the
| living room and the mold colony was in the bathroom under
| the shower. In that case, any sort of light sealant would
| trap any possible residual mycotoxins on the canvas so they
| will no longer float around the air in the home.
|
| But if you have mold growing on unpainted wood joists, for
| example, because of a plumbing leak, you can't just paint
| over the mold colony on those joists with a sealant,
| because it may not penetrate deep enough into the wood, and
| you can't paint the backside of that joist where it touches
| the floor / ceiling, and so the mold often will just
| continue to grow and grow around your sealant. Many paints
| marketed as mold killers and sealers are totally
| ineffective at stopping the problem in scenarios like this.
| darken wrote:
| Just a warning to anyone reading this that 35% lab grade
| hydrogen peroxide can be VERY dangerous, so I'd just stick to
| the 2% drug store stuff unless you really know what you're
| doing.
|
| High purity hydrogen peroxide has been used as a rocket fuel
| since it's such a great oxidizer.
| mgaunard wrote:
| I love mold, really improved my linking times.
| MavisBacon wrote:
| Mold exposure is no joke. I lived in a rented apartment that was
| flooded badly during Hurricane Sandy (and I was on the 4th
| floor!). Within a few days of the storm passing I was emailing my
| landlord, concerned that he apparently hadn't begun doing
| anything to reduce likelihood of mold growth. A few weeks later
| gives us the go ahead to move back in, and within weeks of that I
| rapidly began developing symptoms.
|
| Initially looked like severe allergies but then I started
| coughing up blood, waking up gasping for breath, really bad
| nausea and other GI issues. I was already pissed off with
| management at this apartment so we moved out about 4 months after
| the hurricane. While moving out we found all this black mold
| hiding behind furniture and in corners. Took pictures and then
| made a point to do mold air quality test before handing over the
| keys. Saw my PCP who had been overseeing my care the whole time,
| probably dozens of visits, and mentioned what I found. He then
| had zero doubt that the mold was causing everything
|
| He ordered a blood test that shows the immune system's response
| to mold and it indicated my body was dealing with quite a bit of
| it. The air tests showed the presence of 3 types/quantities of
| toxigenic mold and correlated with blood tests
|
| I think it took nearly two years for me to fully recover after
| moving out of the apartment. Was at least fortunate that all of
| that documentation allowed me to get a settlement. I had
| literally emailed the landlord saying I have asthma and the
| apartment must be safe for me to move back into. I now do mold
| air tests before I move anywhere
|
| Oddly the house we are about to move into passed the mold air
| test and then we found a ton of mold in the insulation once we
| ripped all the drywall out of what is going to be my bedroom
| 4oo4 wrote:
| What do you use to test for mold?
| MavisBacon wrote:
| I use companies licensed in mold remediation and testing. If
| you live in a fairly populated area and google "mold air
| testing in (x city)" you should hopefully find something.
| It's strange to me how infrequently these services are
| utilized. My realtor, who is one of the most experienced in
| the state even wasn't sure who to go to for this when I first
| asked
| starkparker wrote:
| There's some care to take here, especially depending on
| state licensing requirements. In some places it's
| particularly easy or low risk to present fraudulent results
| or interpretations of results on air tests so they can
| pitch expensive but unnecessary mitigation. National and
| regional chains often provide licensing cover for, and set
| quotas on, operators that enable some of this scamming.
|
| One way to vet a mold tester is to go through a property
| management or landlords' association, even if you're not
| either of those things (even if you're a renter!). They
| often refer or have a list of vetted local contractors
| publicly available. Nobody likes wasting money on property
| less than a landlord.
| MavisBacon wrote:
| 100%. for this reason it can be ideal to go with a
| company that only does testing, not remediation. In
| smaller markets, though, you might be forced to go
| through a company that does remediation as well. Had to
| do it recently but they were honest and helpful, gave us
| a clean rating
| aarongray wrote:
| HERTSMI-2 is the most accurate. Often houses will pass air
| spore tests but HERTSMI-2 will catch the problem. It isn't
| necessary to do an ERMI - that tests for ALL molds in your
| house. You only need to test for Mycotoxin producing molds,
| which the HERTSMI-2 does.
|
| This is the kit I recommend for testing for mold:
| https://www.envirobiomics.com/product/hertsmi-2/
|
| Only costs $130. Buy the Swiffer kit. Vacuum is not as
| accurate. Clean the whole house, then wait 2-4 weeks, then
| use the Swiffer kit to collect dust that has settled in the
| bedrooms and living room. Don't do kitchen or bathrooms.
|
| Interpreting a HERTSMI-2:
|
| 0-8: Excellent
|
| 9-10: Good
|
| 11-15: Possibly dangerous. Deep clean the whole house,
| especially locations that are rarely cleaned and have settled
| dust like the tops of ceiling fans, door frames, blinds, etc.
| Wait 2-4 weeks and retest. If the score is still 11 or above,
| you have a significant mold problem that needs to be found
| and remediated by professionals.
|
| 16-50: Dangerous. You have a significant mold problem that
| needs to be found and remediated by professionals.
| wahnfrieden wrote:
| I read a detailed account from a non-anon former Apple employee
| (I can get the link to share) who was similarly sick from per
| the evidence strong chemical fumes they were ejecting from
| their factories nearby some of the employee housing. No follow
| up or accountability and several reasons why they were allowed
| to operate that way perhaps (besides other team dysfunction).
| Just terrible stuff like this seems to happen regardless of a
| biz's rep w general population and dismissed from attention if
| it ever receives it
|
| NY and Ontario landlords and I'm sure elsewhere have a high
| tolerance for leaving terrible mold situations in rentals, I
| know someone who had permanent nerve damage and a condition for
| life from how the black mold behind her shower that the
| landlord wouldn't fix and the state wouldn't help resolve
| sizzle wrote:
| would love a link to read more, thanks for sharing!
| wahnfrieden wrote:
| I'm sorry I replied on twitter a couple months ago and
| they've deleted the posts. I followed them and could find
| that way maybe but don't want to dox them now that they've
| taken it down. They couldn't find journalist interest and I
| tried to refer one. I have no affiliation / authority over
| this second hand info of course.
|
| To clarify, they were not a factory worker, they were
| corporate (not that it makes it better but it means that
| exposure to stuff wouldn't have been a part of their
| employment agreement) and the root cause was that it saved
| money
| failrate wrote:
| It tested negative, because that mold was still trapped in the
| space within the drywall.
| liampulles wrote:
| The golden rule to a long-lived healthy building is to keep
| everything as dry as possible.
| aarongray wrote:
| If anyone is reading this and you think you have mold illness,
| lyme disease, or fibromyalgia, read Toxic, by Neil Nathan MD.
| This doctor has been treating patients for decades, and it is the
| gold standard for how to diagnose and treat the complex health
| issues that arise from mold exposure.
|
| https://www.amazon.com/Toxic-Toxicity-Multiple-Sensitivities...
| plzeatmorechips wrote:
| The EPA course seems reasonable and informative.
|
| My in-laws discovered mold in their home about four years ago
| thanks to a tipoff from a psychic. They had their home inspected
| once, and found nothing. They had their home inspected again and
| mold was found in their air conditioning system.
|
| Since then, they've had multiple mold remediation companies come
| in.
|
| * Removal and replacement of several interior walls
|
| * Covering of proximal structural timbers with proprietary anti-
| mold spray
|
| * several rounds of professional cleaning, with various
| proprietary blends of magical chemicals
|
| The symptoms my in-laws attribute to mold exposure have not
| decreased. They've had maybe five or six mold remediation
| specialists use tools of varying degrees of woo to scan the home.
| My mother-in-law will set a pan of water overnight in random
| places and send the water to a lab for testing--no mater where
| she puts it, it almost always comes back positive (surprise).
|
| I fully believe my inlaws were and are the victim of mold
| remediation scams. Coupled with their continued reliance on
| psychics for life advice and their dismissal of mainstream health
| (they never go to medical doctors) in favor of "functional
| medicine" and chiropracty, they've dumped nearly 100k of their
| retirement into trying to solve a problem that we have no direct
| evidence is the cause of their symptoms.
|
| The story doesn't really have a happy ending. They're living with
| us as they can't move into other constructions "because of the
| VOCs" (our home isn't special, they just started living here
| before they "learned" about VOCs).
|
| I'm not in a position to criticize any particular mold
| remediation company or technique, I just wanted to share my
| absurd reality in case it helps anyone else frame what they might
| be going through themselves. There is a cottage industry of
| various kinds of remediation scams, and many of them are outright
| egregious.
| sizzle wrote:
| thanks for shining a light on this scummy industry and I hope
| your in-laws come to their senses or you can insulate yourself
| and loved ones from their inevitable downfall.
| yinser wrote:
| If you stop thinking about LLMs as AI, and more as an incredible
| tool for doing retrieval I hope one day that when you see a
| deeply informative post from a government site it comes standard
| with a chat dialog so you can quickly ask your questions and be
| directed to relevant chunks of information.
| 0xbadcafebee wrote:
| tl;dr
|
| - mold usually only significantly affects people prone to
| respiratory infections or allergies. it's a lung irritant for
| most people but once the mold is removed, the lungs typically
| recover. when remediating mold, it's a good idea to have a
| respirator and eye mask, mostly just to prevent irritation or
| from breathing cleaning chemicals
|
| - you can never stop mold from being in your house, but you can
| prevent it from growing. mold grows faster the hotter it is, and
| typically grows at 55% humidity or higher. reduce humidity and
| stop any dripping or standing water to prevent mold growth. to
| reduce humidity you can use a dehumidifier or desiccants (better
| for closets/drawers). increased air flow also helps prevent mold
| (mold likes dark places without air flow and high humidity)
|
| - mold can be found in most central air systems/vents, it's not
| surprising. but it will grow and cause health issues if the air
| conditioning system is prone to water or high humidity.
|
| - the reason you need to remove mold even if you don't smell
| it/it's not visible is mold breaks down organic matter, so it
| will stain and/or destroy clothes, wood, leather, etc.
|
| - different molds have different behaviors. some can be killed
| with just vinegar, but some need a more severe treatment. bleach,
| other household products don't tend to work, because it doesn't
| kill the root.
|
| - once a mold root gains hold in a permeable material, it's
| pretty hard to kill the root, so you can kill the outer version
| of it but it'll often just grow back. so if flooring/sheathing
| like OSB gets mold, you'll probably need to scrap it. hard wood
| can take longer for mold to grow on but once the roots are in the
| wood, you'd need to remove the wood down to the root or it'll
| grow back.
|
| - concrobium mold control is the best overall product for mold
| control, as it can kill the mold and root and prevent mold from
| regrowing on surfaces. if you find mold in hard to reach areas, a
| dry fogger with concrobium is often the easiest solution
|
| - if it's not practical for you to reduce humidity or increase
| airflow in a given space, keep your stuff in airtight plastic
| bins.
| dumbo-octopus wrote:
| A friend of mine has a severely mentally damaged family member
| who has decided it'd be a whole bunch of fun to have an indoor
| swimming pool. She repeatedly opens all the taps in their
| bathroom while arranging for all the water to spill everywhere,
| and proceeds to splash around in it. This has been going in daily
| for over a month now.
|
| The sad part is the family has at this point given up entirely on
| correcting the behavior or even drying the house, and it's just a
| matter of time before there's irreparable damage and severe
| illnesses throughout. Even worse, it's a townhouse connected to
| other houses the the left and right, I wouldn't be at all
| surprised if the damage/sickenss spreads to the neighbors.
|
| High density living definitely has its downsides...
| alexb_ wrote:
| This person needs to be in a mental institution, not their
| house. This is also closely related to the crime problems
| people have with high-density living. The complete and utter
| failure of our society to correctly put people away is not a
| knock on "high density living", it's a symptom of the US
| shutting down asylums and preventing people who are dangerous
| to society from being locked away.
| hunter2_ wrote:
| When those decisions were made (to shut down asylums, etc.)
| what techniques were intended to backfill the same need? Did
| evidence suggest that something else (drugs at home?) would
| be at least similarly effective and more humane?
| doublespanner wrote:
| No, there was controversy over mistreated patients in a
| number of asylums.
|
| There were campaigns to close the asylums based on this,
| but no real plan for what to replace them with.
| boppo1 wrote:
| I have black-colored mold that grows in one of my bathrooms on
| the toilet bowl under the water's surface and on the tub/shower
| curtain. I clean it, but it always comes back in 1-3 weeks. It
| does not appear elsewhere.
|
| Any ideas? Is there a cheap test I can do on the water?
|
| I don't know if it's a danger or not.
| kvdveer wrote:
| Remove it with vinegar, it will stay away longer, although it
| won't remove the root cause.
|
| The root cause is that you have a source of moisture there,
| allowing these fungi to live. Maybe your toilet has a pin leak,
| or that spot is a bit colder than the rest of your bathroom,
| leading to moisture condensing there first. If you remove the
| source of moisture, the mold will be gone too.
| jascination wrote:
| How do you clean it? I'm no expert, but I'd turn off the water
| to the toilet then flush it till it's empty, then hit it with
| some mould spray. I'd look at the water tank too (which should
| now be empty) and give that a clean too. Read the instructions
| on the sprays cos you're meant to leave them for 5-10mins to do
| their work before you wash them off. Then turn your tap back on
| and see how you go.
| electrondood wrote:
| I'm convinced the uptick in "gluten sensitivity" is actually
| sensitivity to mold on grains. I often get a stuffy nose, and
| then next-day brain fog after eating bread, anything with soy
| sauce, etc.
|
| Had a complete allergy test panel and I have zero reactivity to
| gluten, etc.
|
| Grains (especially flour and oats) are particularly susceptible
| to mold contamination, and it's interesting to note that the US
| allows significantly more mold contamination in grains [0] (see
| Table 3). 5x higher Aflatoxin for all foods, 33% higher
| Deoxynivalenol in bread, and ZERO maximum amount for Ochratoxin A
| in any foods in the US.
|
| If you have problems eating grains in the US, it's very likely a
| mold sensitivity, not anything related to gluten/gliadin.
|
| [0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6163171/
| seanw444 wrote:
| Very interesting. Thanks.
| sizzle wrote:
| I thought I was going crazy cause grains seriously mess me up
| and got all the gluten sensitivity testing as well with no
| reactivity.
|
| I just started avoiding most grain based carbs and as a result
| my life is 100% better with none of the brain fog symptoms and
| lethargy.
|
| The mold contamination is something I never really considered
| and could explain a lot. Thanks for sharing!
| atlgator wrote:
| Isn't the gluten issue because farmers changed over to using
| dwarf wheat to increase crop density? Dwarf wheat has more
| gluten than traditional types.
| faeriechangling wrote:
| A sensitivity to grains can also be a sensitivity to
| oligosaccharides... especially if you present with digestive
| issues. Bread can cause multiple problems.
|
| I also don't think people are quite aware that part of the
| reason gluten-free foods are so popular is they can help with
| conditions that are not caused by gluten sensitivities as they
| omit ingredients which cause multiple health problems. Multiple
| of which were poorly understood at the time gluten free foods
| exploded, which drove scepticism because people could not
| understand why so many people were buying these foods if they
| did not have celiac disease and often seemed to be often be
| able to tolerate some amount of gluten.
|
| If you have food sensitivities I'd visit a doctor & do deep
| research and do trial/error.
| modeless wrote:
| I wish there was a website where you could input your food
| sensitivities and it would tell you what digestive
| dysfunction you have. Personally I am sensitive to restaurant
| pad thai and also tonkotsu ramen. Eating either of those will
| guarantee prompt digestive problems for me. But I'm at a loss
| to explain why those two things are bad. Especially the pad
| thai when it's seemingly just another noodle dish.
| jahsome wrote:
| That exists, it's called social media. Just publicly post
| "I suffer from x" and you'll summon a baker's dozen experts
| to tell you "it's not x, it's y" in no time.
| Aurornis wrote:
| > Had a complete allergy test panel and I have zero reactivity
| to gluten, etc.
|
| We don't currently have any accepted and reliable tests for the
| condition known as gluten intolerance.
|
| Note that you can order celiac disease screening and you can
| order certain gluten allergy testing, but gluten intolerance is
| considered a third condition. You cannot currently order a test
| for this, so the negative test results you received were likely
| either for celiac disease or a traditional gluten allergy.
|
| Also, note that there are more compounds in grains that you can
| be allergic to beyond gluten. Gluten gets the spotlight because
| it was the hot topic for many years, but it's possible to be
| fine with pure gluten but allergic to grains.
|
| It all gets confusing, but the important thing is to remember
| that Celiac disease, gluten allergy, and gluten intolerance are
| three separate conditions and excluding one does not mean you
| can't have the others. It's also important to remember that
| there are many more compounds in grains than just gluten.
|
| > If you have problems eating grains in the US, it's very
| likely a mold sensitivity, not anything related to
| gluten/gliadin.
|
| That's quite a logical leap without any evidence. For what it's
| worth, I also have similar allergic reactions to grains but my
| experience doesn't differ at all when I travel to the EU.
| omgwtfbyobbq wrote:
| I'm my experience, the blood tests for Celiac are also used
| for Gluten Intolerance.
|
| If a blood test for Celiac is positive, the biopsy is
| negative, and nothing else can account for your symptoms, and
| removing gluten improved your symptoms, then you end up in
| the Gluten Intolerant category.
| yencabulator wrote:
| Great reason to live in a semi-arid area I guess, mold just
| doesn't grow here much. Current outdoor humidity is 26% and this
| is the wet part of the year.
| Eumenes wrote:
| DampRid makes good product to supplement your dehumidifiers -
| https://damprid.com/
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