[HN Gopher] Mtn Dew Raid Q&A [pdf]
___________________________________________________________________
Mtn Dew Raid Q&A [pdf]
Author : katrinarodri
Score : 234 points
Date : 2023-12-05 14:35 UTC (8 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.mountaindew.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.mountaindew.com)
| gumballindie wrote:
| Clever use of opencv and image detection.
| glorygut123 wrote:
| "PLEASE DRINK VERIFICATION CAN" but even more dystopian
| mminer237 wrote:
| This is an opt-in promotion they're inviting small streamers to
| participate in without any actual consumption required.
| ReactiveJelly wrote:
| The dystopian part is that they're testing a CV feature that
| has enough capacity to watch tons of streams constantly, and
| they don't _need_ your permission to run it. One would hope
| this will put the "haha my FBI agent must be bored I'm not
| worth it nothing to hide :)" fools in their place
| Double_a_92 wrote:
| Why would they need a permission to watch something that
| you are publicly streaming?
| 8organicbits wrote:
| Consider the difference between noticing someone you
| happen to pass on the street and following that person
| with a video camera every time they are outside.
| Corporation should not continuously monitor people, even
| in public spaces.
| azinman2 wrote:
| Everything you do online is tracked. Too late.
| zamadatix wrote:
| It's never too late to have a stance on something.
| Actually it's quite difficult to do things the other way
| around.
| sjsdaiuasgdia wrote:
| This isn't really a very good comparison.
|
| It's difficult to simply live life and never, ever be in
| a public space.
|
| No one has to publicly stream on Twitch or other
| services. If someone wants to broadcast video but do it
| privately, there are ways to do that.
|
| It might be a small stage for a small streamer, but
| turning that stream on still means you're getting up on a
| stage, and you are implicitly accepting that you'll be
| watched. It's a choice to put yourself out there.
| euazOn wrote:
| Yes. Related to the difference between "available" and
| "easily accessible" - a lot of information about e.g.
| politicians may be freely available, but it usually
| doesn't make a difference unless a journalist makes it
| easily accessible.
| ribosometronome wrote:
| Streamers are explicitly broadcasting themselves, though.
| They are the camera following themselves around.
| verdverm wrote:
| There is a difference between watching a person in a
| public space and watching someone who is purposely
| broadcasting themself to the world
| Sohcahtoa82 wrote:
| Your comment and many others like it make me wonder if
| you people even know what Twitch is.
| dingnuts wrote:
| something scary the "my FBI agent" people probably don't
| think about is that "their FBI agent" might not even be
| born yet, because they're putting all this stuff out into
| the public record to be analyzed who knows, maybe thirty
| years from now by an unimaginable regime by some "kid"
| (who's 30, and you're 50 or 60) that doesn't have an
| inkling of understanding or care for what was socially
| acceptable 30 years ago
| jdiff wrote:
| Good thing the FBI isn't in the business of policing
| social acceptability.
| bobsmith432 wrote:
| We didn't think the NSA was in the business of
| international unwarranted surveillance until they were
| jdiff wrote:
| You could apply that reasoning to any random claim
| regardless of veracity.
| ericmcer wrote:
| The AI is just automating something they could hire an army
| of humans to do though, twitch usually has ~80k streams
| running, so it would take a few thousand workers but there
| would be no privacy blockers.
|
| They do have your permission to run it, as soon as you
| start live streaming yourself you are giving anyone with
| the internet permission to access that data.
| gosub100 wrote:
| I think they're playing netizens over this one, because they
| _know_ this comment will come up and everyone will laugh and
| associate that feel-good emotion with their brand.
| jdiff wrote:
| Is it a feel-good emotion if the emotion is "how do I get off
| this planet"?
| homeless_engi wrote:
| Is this a joke? It is pretty much exactly the old "please drink
| verification can" greentext / meme
|
| I suppose life really does imitate art!
| burkaman wrote:
| > Once you accept, the RAID AI will keep monitoring your stream
| for the presence of MTN DEW, if you remove your DEW, you'll be
| prompted to bring it back on camera
|
| This has to be directly inspired by that "drink verification can"
| 4chan post.
| wongarsu wrote:
| I assume we are talking about this one, for those not aware:
| https://i.imgur.com/dgGvgKF.png
| Dig1t wrote:
| Thank you for linking that, that made me laugh out loud. That
| should be a scene in Idiocracy.
| lloydatkinson wrote:
| Change a few words and this feels exactly like the security
| theatre of the modern login experience, 2FA, MFA, I'm sure
| they're working on the next insufferable "best practice" to
| try tie your phone to you even more. Good luck logging into
| some services if you dare keep your phone in another room for
| a change.
|
| Flashback to the time I was getting approximately 50
| Microsoft 2FA SMS's a day. The place I worked then had forced
| Chrome's homepage to be some crappy SharePoint page. Getting
| into that required logging into our Microsoft account, and
| the checkbox to remember our login for five days literally
| never worked.
|
| So every time I opened a new tab in Chrome, I'd get a SMS.
| Truly, we are living in the future.
| 4ggr0 wrote:
| to be fair, sounds like the place you worked at
| misconfigured something, rather than M$.
| apetresc wrote:
| Tip: if you find that the "remember my login" ticks never
| seem to work for you, it's likely your browser's "Enhanced
| Tracking Prevention" or whatever. You should be able to
| disable it for just the domain that the authentication
| portal itself is happening on. Helped a lot for me.
| data-ottawa wrote:
| I always wonder what would happen to most people if there
| was a house fire and all their phones and laptops burned at
| once.
|
| It's not clear what the best security plan for that is
| (safety deposit box or fireproof safe seem like the best
| options).
| wongarsu wrote:
| Most places will deactivate your account's 2FA if you can
| convincingly prove your identity. Of course hackers
| noticed that too, and might try to disable your 2FA once
| they have enough private information about you ...
| iforgotpassword wrote:
| So, not Google.
| eloisius wrote:
| I stress about getting my shit stolen every time I'm
| traveling and being completely locked out of everything.
| I stash an extra phone separate from my main phone every
| time I travel for that reason.
| lancesells wrote:
| You have two phones with the same number? I didn't know
| that was possible.
| eloisius wrote:
| No, but most SMS-based 2fa is linked to my voip number,
| which then requires 2fa stored in a password manager.
| lancesells wrote:
| Makes sense. Thanks.
| whamlastxmas wrote:
| Many services let you print 2fa codes. Keep them at a
| friends house
| Kharacternyk wrote:
| The primary MFA device should be a Yubikey or something
| similar. Some of such keys are designed to be permanently
| plugged in. People use phones instead when they don't want
| to invest into a key or as a backup. EDIT: Or when OTP over
| SMS is the only MFA method supported as it likely is in
| your case.
| alpaca128 wrote:
| Does that also work if Google again randomly decides I
| have to use a specific one of multiple MFA choices?
| Recently it forced me to dig out my old phone I hadn't
| been using for months and boot it just to confirm a popup
| because it simply wouldn't let me select a different
| method. I don't know what would have happened if I'd lost
| the phone instead of just buying a new one after support
| ended. It didn't even let me enter my printed out backup
| codes, which kind of defeats the purpose.
|
| And most people aren't even using a free password
| manager, there's no chance they're going to buy and
| configure a Yubikey.
| chankstein38 wrote:
| I once ran over my phone with a mower. Tried to log onto
| Verizon's site to buy a new one. Please enter the code
| shown on your phone. No alternative way to sign in.
| Nothing. I contacted chat support and they wouldn't talk to
| me until I verified through my phone. Obviously impossible.
| I ended up chatting with sales support and begging each
| person to forward me to tech support until one finally took
| pity on me and forwarded me to someone who was cool enough
| to actually help me. What the hell.
| Unfrozen0688 wrote:
| >The place I worked then had forced Chrome's homepage to be
| some crappy SharePoint page. Getting into that required
| logging into our Microsoft account, and the checkbox to
| remember our login for five days literally never worked.
|
| Yes but, usually you are logged into your PC with the same
| account. So with SSO in Edge and Firefox, it would just log
| you in.
| lloydatkinson wrote:
| Except it didn't.
| jw1224 wrote:
| And thanks to Sony (patent US8246454B2), this might as well
| be real...
|
| https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/b4/2e/a1/779dd8d.
| ..
| jjice wrote:
| This never fails to make me tear up with laughter. The
| quadrant where he stands up just really gets me.
| jacoblambda wrote:
| Isn't the greentext in direct response to that patent?
| wongarsu wrote:
| Patent was granted in 2012, greentext published in 2013.
| Definitely plausible.
| billfor wrote:
| https://patents.google.com/patent/US8246454B2/en
| observationist wrote:
| -wake up feeling sick after a late night of playing video
| games -excited to play some halo 2k19 -"xbox on"
| -... -"XBOX ON" -"Please verify that you are
| "annon332" by saying "Doritos(tm) Dew(tm) it right!"
| -"Doritos(tm) Dew(tm) it right" -"ERROR! Please drink a
| verification can" -reach into my Doritos(tm) Mountain
| Dew(tm) Halo 2k19(tm) War Chest -only a few cans left,
| needed to verify 14 times last night -still feeling
| sick from the 14 -force it down and grumble out "mmmm
| that really hit the spot" -xbox does nothing -i
| attempt to smile -"Connecting to verification server"
| -... -"Verification complete!" -finally
| -boot up halo 2k19 -finding multiplayer match...
| -"ERROR! User attempting to steal online gameplay!" -my
| mother just walked in the room -"Adding another user to
| your pass, this will be charged to your credit card. Do you
| accept?" -"NO!" -"Console entering lock state!"
| -"to unlock drink verification can" -last can
| -"WARNING, OUT OF VERIFICATION CANS, an order has been
| shipped and charged to your credit card" -drink half
| the can, oh god im going to be sick -pour the last half
| out the window -"PIRACY DETECTED! PLEASE COMPLETE THIS
| ADVERTISEMENT TO CONTINUE" -the mountain dew ad plays
| -i have to dance for it -feeling so sick -makes
| me sing along -dancing and singing -"mountain dew
| is for me and you" -throw up on my self -throw up
| on my tv and entertainment system -router shorts
| -"ERROR NO CONNECTION! XBOX SHUTTING OFF" -"PLEASE
| DRINK VERIFICATION CAN TO CONTINUE"
|
| Text for context, source:4chan
| bob1029 wrote:
| I think they're using it as an instruction manual. Looking
| forward to Doritos deploying their piece.
| dylan604 wrote:
| Sounds like something out of Idiocracy. It's got what _____
| crave!
| ranting-moth wrote:
| How many years until you'll get rewarded extra of your drinking
| from the can? I'd say 2-3 years.
| polygamous_bat wrote:
| Oh how I wish today was April 1st. Instead, seems like this is
| real and we indeed live in a clown world.
|
| What's stopping me from having a "MTN DEW makes you obese" banner
| on my channel?
| mminer237 wrote:
| Nothing, but it says they have humans verifying the streams'
| content too, so presumably they would not choose to include you
| in the promotion.
| agloe_dreams wrote:
| ..moooore like Pepsico lawyers would send you some nice fan
| mail with a C&D.
| mminer237 wrote:
| I'm pretty sure that such a banner would be squarely
| protected by the First Amendment as long as you didn't make
| it look like you were sponsored by Pepsi.
| gosub100 wrote:
| Crowd fund a popular "family vlogger" (maybe one who does more
| DIY type projects) to make an episode where they clean a bunch
| of motor oil, grease, and brake fluid off their driveway with
| MTN DEW. "Wow, it's so good at penetrating the cement and
| breaking down that toxic sludge!"
| RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote:
| This definitely has a "How do you do fellow kids" vibe to it.
|
| https://amp.knowyourmeme.com/memes/how-do-you-do-fellow-kids
|
| I am seeing more potential for downside than for upside for this
| campaign.
| perihelions wrote:
| Counter-proposal: Amazon should prohibit influencing soft drinks
| on their platform, and use their machine-vision panopticon to
| punish streamers who promote/advertise them to children.
| shreyshnaccount wrote:
| Where's the profit margin in that
| shpx wrote:
| It's a long term play where the pay off is living and raising
| your children in a slightly nicer world, not expressed
| directly in a dollar amount.
| judge2020 wrote:
| So 0 benefit to Amazon which would typically benefit from a
| more consumerism-focused youth?
| mensetmanusman wrote:
| Amazon would benefit from future citizens that can walk
| without wobbling.
| tylersmith wrote:
| I'm not sure they would. I never used Amazon more than
| when I was unable to walk.
| scrame wrote:
| not really, they would benefit from people being stuck in
| their chairs and needing to order everything online.
| shpx wrote:
| In the short term maybe. More long term and generally,
| there are going to be 400 million people living in
| America, over the lifespan of Amazon the entity, the
| lifespans of its employees and shareholders, all three
| will have to interact with those 400 million people, some
| on the street, a lot (in a small way) in political
| processes and systems, in art, as future employees, as
| employees in businesses they partner with, etc.
| Advertising is mass programming (albeit in a small way)
| of large swathes of the population.
|
| There's 44 million US Twitch users, so basically you can
| show a message to 1/10th of the entire youth population
| of America. In 10 years there is probably some minor
| difference in society between whether that message was
| "go drink mountain dew" or "here's how DNA works" or
| something simpler, or more useful, or different things
| tailored by age, etc. Now if Amazon makes like 3 cents
| per ad (a number I made up) * 44 million users compounded
| by 7% annual interest over 10 years then that's 2.5
| million dollars of profit. But money is a tiny slice of
| the entire pie of what is possible in an economy. If
| instead Amazon "donated" that 2.5 million dollars
| (actually more if 3 cents per ad is profit not revenue)
| by using its ad infrastructure to forcefully cram useful
| knowledge into the children instead of knowledge about a
| sugar drink brand, it's possible that everything that is
| possible in society 10 years from now would essentially
| make all the other money Amazon makes more valuable,
| because, for example, doctors that Amazon shareholders
| would want to go to would charge less because they
| indoctrinated a few more children into an interest in
| biology instead of Mountain Dew consumption so there was
| more doctors and less diabetics.
|
| Will it be enough to offset 2.5+ million dollars?
| Probably not, but we don't have the technology to express
| that cost/benefit calculation, because the best we have
| is spreadsheets and demand/supply curves (if you will
| permit my derisive oversimplification of what economic
| tools business people use). We have developed computers
| and mathematics, as well as a system of assigning token
| counts to people and groups of people (money) that when
| people and groups of people work hard on increasing their
| respective token counts seems to correlate quite well
| with generally improving things and getting things we
| want. Numbers (bits really) are highly physically stable
| states and mathematics is operations we can perform of
| those states that are themselves very stable in time and
| predictable. We can measure things in the world and
| record those measurements into bits and then apply
| operations on those bits and we find that sometimes we're
| able to build computations that result in a strong
| correlation between the resulting state and physical
| reality. We're able to predict the future. However
| there's still a pretty huge mismatch with what we're able
| to easily express with simple mathematics on collections
| of bits and whatever our brains can do, which we
| experience as intuition/common sense and empathy.
|
| Basically I'm saying it would take a strong willed person
| with the intuition to see that "if we use our mass
| population programming tools to increase the competence
| of our youth we will be better off than if we increase
| the consumption of Mountain Dew by 13% (or whatever they
| estimate)" because it's very difficult to truly express
| that comparison as a spreadsheet of dollar amounts, which
| is the primary technology businesses have for making
| decisions. Because a spreadsheet is a Turing machine and
| typing in data and programs into it is really time
| consuming whereas a human brain is a very different type
| of computer that processes input much more efficiently
| but is more fallible because other brains can't inspect
| its thought process, which is why we usually prefer
| spreadsheets.
| Taylor_OD wrote:
| Paid for by... The Moms Against Mountain Dew? I want to live in
| a world where the healthy option is the financially profitable
| one, but until we do, the advertisers/sugar pushers will
| continue to win.
| verdverm wrote:
| Just wait for Mothers Against Generative AI
| make3 wrote:
| profit is not the only morality
| sbarre wrote:
| Ehh we have enough with the nanny state, we don't need the
| nanny corps as well.
| jeroenhd wrote:
| Ethically: yes, totally.
|
| Too bad it's never going to happen, because selling healthy
| things to children is a lot harder than selling sugar water.
| schleck8 wrote:
| Yeah. Sweets are one thing when consumed moderately but
| Mountain Dew is toxic waste. Looks like it's radioactive and
| contains the appropriate ingredients.
| paradox460 wrote:
| My grandfather tried it once and said "that tastes like Daisy
| May's piss"
| prakhar897 wrote:
| > MTN DEW RAID will be providing streamers at all levels - from
| casual gamers to the pros - with the chance to supe up their
| audiences - that's the prize! However, in order to spread the
| word MTN DEW is partnering with influencers, as well as existing
| brand partners, to showcase the RAID program and encourage their
| followers to join the RAID.
|
| Paying with exposure Wow. and wtf does "supe" even mean here?
| ReactiveJelly wrote:
| Phonetic spelling of "Soup up" I guess.
|
| https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/soup%20up
|
| > These examples are programmatically compiled from various
| online sources to illustrate current usage of the word 'soup
| up.' Any opinions expressed in the examples do not represent
| those of Merriam-Webster or its editors
|
| If you trust AI.
| myself248 wrote:
| Basically "supercharge" but in a use not specific to the
| literal raising of intake manifold pressure and flow. To "supe
| up", also spelled "soup up" (which makes no sense to me as
| there's no broth involved), has been a common term in
| motorsports since at least the 1960s.
| inkcapmushroom wrote:
| The term is actually soup up, supe up is incorrect. It comes
| from horse racing back in the 1920's, the slang for
| performance enhancing drugs given to your horses was soup.
|
| https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/soup%20up#word-
| hi...
| Kon-Peki wrote:
| > and wtf does "supe" even mean here?
|
| Perhaps it's a common expression in "Puerta Rico":
|
| > While MTN DEW RAID is live, anyone streaming under the
| "Games" category on Twitch that is +18 years old (19+ in AL &
| NE), actively live streaming, based in the USA, Puerta Rico, or
| Guam, and has MTN DEW visible on camera is eligible to
| participate.
| willcipriano wrote:
| It's an Albany expression.
| Kon-Peki wrote:
| I really love my steamed hams
| danShumway wrote:
| Also, what exposure?
|
| Is anyone here thinking, "you know what, I need to hop onto the
| official Mountain Dew Twitch channel so I can see exactly 10
| minutes of a 6 simultaneous streams, chosen randomly with the
| only similarity between them being that a beverage is visible
| in each stream. That is definitely the way I'm going to find my
| new favorite streamer."?
|
| I can't imagine that this is an effective way for a streamer to
| get discovered by an audience.
| vitaflo wrote:
| And yet here we are talking about Mountain Dew.
| danShumway wrote:
| Name recognition/publicity definitely matters for tiny
| companies, but I don't think "all press is good press"
| holds true for giant companies. Every single person on HN
| knows that Mountain Dew exists, they're past the point of
| needing brand recognition.
|
| My suspicion is that after a certain threshold of
| recognition, I think it starts to matter whether the people
| talking about a company are talking positively or are
| trashing it.
| LegitShady wrote:
| >Are there any prizes or perks for participating in MTN DEW RAID?
|
| >Definitely! Participating streamers will have the chance to be
| featured on the MTN DEW Gaming Twitch Channel, the MTN DEW RAID
| branded shelf on the Twitch home page, and the Twitch homepage
| hero carousel. Streamers will also have a chance to receive a 1:1
| coaching session with a professional streamer/content creator
|
| If you volunteer to advertise their product, you have a chance to
| win exposure on mountain dew's twitch gaming channel, which
| nobody should care about. They're not even paying you. This is
| for people who sell out before they even see a dollar.
| c0pium wrote:
| Since it seems like you don't understand how streaming on
| twitch works, here's the tl;dr. They're paying you in exposure
| for giving them exposure. This is one of the few places where
| "for the exposure" is actually meaningful and not a meme. If
| you're trying to get a channel off the ground as a career, this
| is not a terrible deal.
| LegitShady wrote:
| If entering to win into a contest that may maybe get you
| exposure on mountain dew's 15k subscriber channel is what you
| call "getting a channel off the ground" you've already lost.
| It's a terrible deal. If you feature brands on your channel
| get paid for it, or stop doing it. Doing it for a chance to
| win exposure on a 15k sub channel, none of whom are there to
| watch you because thats not why they subbed to it, is selling
| out for nothing. Less than nothing. A chance at nothing, with
| nothing guaranteed.
| Geee wrote:
| Brought to you by Carl's Jr! [0]
|
| [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQPU_BiT25w
| ravenstine wrote:
| _F*** you, I 'm eating!_
| 1-6 wrote:
| This is an interesting method to advertise. I can't say I like it
| or hate it but certainly, it's better that advertisers are being
| more proactive.
| corobo wrote:
| The timing was terrible for me lol.
|
| All the ads on Twitch had pushed me into paying for Turbo.. and
| now they're advertising in chat and embedded in people's
| streams
| nemacol wrote:
| This is why I won't pay for youtube premium. It only removes
| part of the ads.
| dcow wrote:
| Which ones doesn't it remove?
| nemacol wrote:
| The ones put in by the content creators themselves.
| herpderperator wrote:
| Because that's not YouTube's ad?
| cool_scatter wrote:
| Any opportunity to plug SponsorBlock:
| https://sponsor.ajay.app/
| Sohcahtoa82 wrote:
| You mean the ones you can easily fast forward through?
| c0pium wrote:
| It removes all of the YouTube ads. If you don't like ads
| embedded in videos, don't watch videos from creators who
| take sponsorships.
| joecool1029 wrote:
| >If you don't like ads embedded in videos, don't watch
| videos from creators who take sponsorships.
|
| Or just use SponsorBlock?
| shadedtriangle wrote:
| J, K, and L are keyboard shortcuts for "skip back 10s",
| "toggle pause", and "skip forward 10s". Left and right
| arrow keys do the same skipping. On mobile a double tap on
| either side of the screen again skips forward/back. A
| double tap with two fingers skips a chapter. Makes hopping
| around in a video a breeze.
| pavel_lishin wrote:
| > _it's better that advertisers are being more proactive._
|
| Is it? Why?
| jrockway wrote:
| It will be interesting to see whether the AI recognizes olde
| timey mountain dew logos, and whether or not it recognizes a "DO
| NOT DRINK THIS" sign above a mountain dew logo. I suppose no
| publicity is bad publicity, so they probably don't care.
| corobo wrote:
| As well as obvious bait like the attached, it's also reacting a
| lot to false positives, going into channels that don't even
| have a camera on or any green at all on the screen
|
| https://twitter.com/_Yarts_/status/1731083331893391683?ref=t...
| jimbob45 wrote:
| That was my first thought as well. Maybe it reads all text but
| will it know if I have a Hitler head drinking MD in the
| background? I can get pretty obscure with dictators such that
| the AI isn't likely to be able to detect what I put out there.
| paradox460 wrote:
| Or the Mtn. Dew renaming campaign back in the 00s where 4chan
| stuffed the ballot boxes with a rather offensive name
| skizm wrote:
| Now they should add the option for _viewers_ to opt in to this
| and the streamer can give them channel points (or whatever) every
| time the viewer drinks a mtn dew can in front of their camera
| (verified by the AI)! The AI will also randomly occasionally
| select a viewer 's clip of them drinking a can to show on stream
| in a small-ish box on the side similar to the automated reading
| of donation comments!
|
| (this is sarcastic, but it's also the next logical step for this
| kind of marketing)
| corobo wrote:
| ZachBussey (a popular streamer in the category of streamer news)
| listed the issues wrong with this campaign on Reddit.
|
| Notably the false positive rates and the fact that the method
| used is basically spam, except Twitch got paid to allow it.
|
| https://www.reddit.com/r/LivestreamFail/comments/188of4y/com...
|
| Any other bots doing what the mtn dew bot is doing would likely
| catch a sitewide ban..
|
| E: There's a more structured argument on X, with screenshots of
| the bot's messaging too
| https://twitter.com/zachbussey/status/1730742056899805377
| explaininjs wrote:
| Is there anything at all interesting or controversial about
| paying to have more access to a provider's services? It's
| basically the businesses model for everything for all of time.
| s1artibartfast wrote:
| nothing interesting or controversial at the conceptual level.
| This one strikes a lot of people as distasteful with respect
| to implementation.
|
| Interesting or noteworthy is up to the observer.
| corobo wrote:
| Well it bypasses Twitch's ad-free offering Turbo, it doesn't
| pay the content creators in any way, and any other bot doing
| this sort of thing would catch a sitewide ban for spamming
| pretty rapidly.
|
| Imagine Google was taking payments to allow mail to bypass
| Gmail's spam filters, along those lines.
| ImPostingOnHN wrote:
| Google is paid to insert spam into email, it sounds
| analagous
| corobo wrote:
| Oh god let's not get too deep into the "it's actually
| like" that happens with every analogy used on the
| internet, haha
|
| Twitch already has adverts and banners, which are closer
| to what you're comparing to. This would be injecting text
| ads into the middle of your emails if we're correcting
| our analogies
|
| E: Unless you mean Google actually does allow companies
| to pay to bypass spam filters? That's probably something
| that needs posting to HN itself if so lol
| nightpool wrote:
| Yes, Google displays ads in the "Promotions" tab that
| look like emails. It's not really "bypassing the spam
| filter" per se, but it's arguably much better than that.
| greiskul wrote:
| So you are complaining about the design of their ad
| banner. It really is NOT the same thing as allowing
| people to bypass spam. They don't accumulate in your
| inbox like unfilted spam does. They are not serviced if
| you use other systems to interact with your inbox.
| ben_jones wrote:
| Companies are probing the boundaries of what is and isn't
| acceptable for AI. Sports illustrated recently used AI
| generated avatars to publish AI written articles as if they
| were written by real people. They didn't announce it they
| just did it and got caught. ESPN took a TNT video from
| several years ago and used AI to fabricate key details and
| appear as if it was under the ESPN brand. They didn't
| announce it they just did it and got caught.
|
| While this particular usage is less about a specific AI act
| and yes buying increased access on social media (where most
| users naively assume fair access) isnt new - I personally and
| fucking terrified of where we'll be at just a year from now.
|
| [1]: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/economy/sports-
| illustrated-...
|
| [2]: https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/nba/bucks/2023/10/
| 28/e...
| wpm wrote:
| Spamming advertising in chat is a bannable offense. Chat is a
| space free of ads, because there is no way to opt out without
| closing chat, and if I do that, I have literally no reason to
| watch the streamer on Twitch, since I can probably catch
| their VOD on YouTube the next day. If I want to watch the
| streamer on Twitch ad free, I subscribe, which kicks 50% or
| 30% over to Twitch to pay to keep the lights on. The comments
| by this bot announcing this campaign probably got it flagged
| to Twitch by thousands of viewers and banned in thousands of
| channels, because it's the same behavior seen by other bots
| trying to entice you with "free gaming gear" or "hot singles
| in your area".
|
| The AI scanning as part of this campaign is happening whether
| someone opts in or not. And what the streamer opts into is
| nothing more than being used as an advertising vessel for bad
| sugar water for free.
|
| Pepsico is free to issue Twitch bounties for certain things
| or buy normal ad slots for pre-rolls or mid-stream ads if
| they want to remind everyone that their neon green slop
| exists.
| Spivak wrote:
| > Spamming advertising in chat [without paying Twitch] is a
| bannable offense.
|
| The reason the rule exists is because you don't get to
| advertise on Twitch without paying them, but they're paying
| them so :/
| cqqxo4zV46cp wrote:
| That sounds inconvenient for you, but it doesn't sound
| controversial.
| contravariant wrote:
| I guess it shows who's really in power. Which shouldn't
| really come as a surprise to anyone, but keeps tripping
| people up.
|
| Same way that people keep forgetting youtube videos aren't
| free or public, or that social media have no obligation to be
| impartial or protect freedom of spreech.
| sigmar wrote:
| This seems really scummy, like they're trying to circumvent the
| FTC rules on the disclosure of paid product placements by doing
| this in a automated way (even with the chat message opt-in).
| Seems to me like the company promoting someone and sending more
| viewers their way (by featuring the streamer "on the MTN DEW
| Gaming Twitch Channel") constitutes the product placement being
| an "advertisement" that should be disclosed by streamers.
| MeetingsBrowser wrote:
| > to circumvent the FTC rules on the disclosure of paid product
| placements
|
| Is it paid product placement if no one is getting paid?
|
| Sounds like the only benefit is a chance at being featured in a
| "MTN DEW official" ad.
|
| Unless exposure counts as payment, it doesn't seem like this
| would count as paid product placement. But I'm not a lawyer.
| fassssst wrote:
| AI algorithms getting people to drink MTN DEW, not even Black
| Mirror thought of that one.
| kridsdale1 wrote:
| THANK YOU FOR DRINKING YOUR VERIFICATION CAN
| CSMastermind wrote:
| So my question is who writes this code for them?
|
| Like I'm way more fascinated by the corporate structure -
| presumably it's not someone working at Pepsi that comes up with
| this. So did some third party build it then pitch Pepsi's
| marketing?
|
| How did this come about?
| foobarian wrote:
| B2B team at OpenAI? :-)
| make3 wrote:
| why not? Pepsi is basically a marketing company as they're not
| exactly developing new space faring vehicles, or new flavors,
| even
| corobo wrote:
| Ad company Unit9 going by an AdAge article.
|
| https://adage.com/article/digital-marketing-ad-tech-news/mtn...
|
| (Archive: https://archive.ph/NGrwn)
|
| Also notable is that Doritos recently did an AI advert that
| removes the crunch sounds in streams and voice comms. Maybe
| someone in PepsiCo marketing is on a bit of an AI kick :)
| CSMastermind wrote:
| Very cool, thank you!
|
| Entirely different kind of company that I've never thought
| about before.
| morley wrote:
| My first job out of college was at an ad agency. The level 1
| playbook of all agencies is to find the "hot new things" in
| the zeitgeist and figure out how to turn it into advertising.
| cqqxo4zV46cp wrote:
| That aspect of it is hardly interesting or unusual. "Company
| hires ad agency to develop / execute campaign", and "ad agency
| either has in-house, or outsources, implementation" is
| just...how things work. It just happens that for this campaign,
| among the many professionals required, one of them had to write
| code.
| luc_ wrote:
| Idiocracy becoming real
| artursapek wrote:
| Error. Please drink a verification can.
| colpabar wrote:
| I hope this ends with something similar to the time they "let the
| fans decide" on a name for their new flavor.
| danShumway wrote:
| > Will the RAID AI crawl a stream without the streamer's
| permission?
|
| > The MTN DEW RAID AI will begin crawling all concurrent Gaming
| livestreams from December 1 - December 8, but that doesn't mean
| the AI is watching your streams or keeping any data.
|
| What the #$&@X are you talking about? If an image-recognition
| algorithm is crawling livestreams and verifying objects inside of
| them, that does mean you are watching the streams and keeping
| data. This is not how words work, you can't just change
| definitions like this, you are writing a FAQ not a post-modernist
| art essay.
|
| Mountain Dew is watching the stream and is keeping data: at the
| very least it's storing data about which streams had Mountain Dew
| in them and which streamers have opted in and out. And all of
| that data processing is happening serverside so I'm gonna go out
| on a limb here and say there's probably other metadata being
| preserved too. And sure, streams are public and Mountain Dew can
| crawl them and they could have given an answer of "yes, we are,
| they're public". But how little do you have to think of your
| target audience to instead decide to give an answer that is this
| blatantly a lie and to think that it will fool people?
|
| I am going to sneak into the house of whatever advertiser wrote
| this and put spiders in their bed. But that doesn't mean I'll be
| _trespassing_ , because apparently words mean nothing at all and
| I can say anything I want.
| sonicanatidae wrote:
| They are using intentionally misleading terms to obfuscate
| something they don't want to bother explaining and if they did
| explain it, non-tech users wouldn't get it.
|
| I have a bag of Brown Recluse spiders I was going to throw at
| the ceiling fan during Christmas dinner to liven things up a
| bit, but I think you're idea is a better use case.
| gabeio wrote:
| >This is not how words work, you can't just change definitions
| like this, you are writing a FAQ not a post-modernist art
| essay.
|
| You're assuming this FAQ wasn't written by an AI also.
| danShumway wrote:
| <j>I don't know, I think only a real human advertiser would
| have the required lack of shame or self-awareness necessary
| to tell streamers that instead of being compensated, they
| were instead going to be given the opportunity to "supe"
| their viewers. We have to assume that even jailbroken ChatGPT
| would still have refused to write something quite that
| cringey.</j>
| myself248 wrote:
| I interpreted that as "pulling a list of all streams, then
| comparing it to the list of participants, and watching only
| those".
|
| They could certainly be more clear about it.
| danShumway wrote:
| I understand why you would think that streamers were actively
| opting in before their streams were scanned, because you're
| probably a normal human being and you're probably having a
| normal human reaction like, "obviously streamers just sign
| up, how else would you even design a program like this? It's
| not complicated, you just put a form online."
|
| But that would be the sensible way to do it.
|
| In actuality the way they determine the participants is by
| doing object recognition on everyone's streams to try and
| figure out if a stream is already displaying Mountain Dew,
| and if it is then the bot sends spam messages to the
| streamers to ask them if they want to participate, and the
| only way streamers can opt out of all of that is "don't
| stream in the games category."
| mathgradthrow wrote:
| mountain dew advertising is a post-modern art essay.
| c0pium wrote:
| > you can't just change definitions like this
|
| Of course you can, don't be obtuse. Words can literally mean
| anything the speaker wants them to, language evolves.
|
| This whole conversation is weird and unhinged. We're talking
| about streams which are deliberately created to be public. From
| that perspective, if they're not storing it the details about
| the stream then their target audience would agree that they're
| not watching and storing data. This question is asking if the
| AI (ugh) is skynet (ugh) and is learning about streaming, and
| then saying "nope, just looking for a logo".
|
| Nobody cares about this "well actually" about metadata. English
| is a terrible medium for communicating technical information,
| and it's doubly bad when the target audience neither knows nor
| cares about technical details.
| danShumway wrote:
| > language evolves
|
| Language evolves organically through public usage, not via
| soda FAQs. If you asked pretty much anyone on the street in
| any context "an AI is going to scan a video and locate on
| object, is it 'watching' the video" -- they would say yes.
| This is not a niche interpretation of what it means to watch
| a video. The visual data from the video output is being piped
| into an image recognition engine; the vast majority of the
| general public would call that "watching".
|
| Maybe in the future that will change, but unless Mountain Dew
| has a time machine hidden in their office, "language evolves"
| is not an excuse.
|
| > if they're not storing it the details about the stream then
| their target audience would agree that they're not watching
| and storing data.
|
| They are storing details about the stream, they have to or
| else the system doesn't work. They have to store information
| about which streams they've checked, haven't checked, which
| streams have opted in, which streams have opted out, when
| they last messaged the stream or spammed in chat. The FAQ
| also implies that they are storing frequency information
| about how often the logo appears, so it's not even accurate
| to say they're not storing data that relates to the actual
| contents of the stream.
|
| That's not nitpicking, it's not a technicality, we're not
| debating whether or not a proxy service counts as storage or
| talking about where data is at rest. They are just straight
| up lying -- there is stream and content metadata being stored
| on their servers and being used for the project.
|
| > and it's doubly bad when the target audience neither knows
| nor cares about technical details.
|
| "Are you storing information about me"
|
| "None that you would understand"
|
| is a _terrible_ answer for a FAQ and belittles the reader.
| The streams are intended to be public, they could just say,
| "yes we are scanning public streams and collecting metadata."
| People know what metadata is, it's not that complicated.
| There are so many simple answers they could give to this
| question that would be honest to what they're doing without
| risking confusion.
|
| "The public would be confused" is not an excuse to outright
| lie about what information a company is and isn't storing.
| Obviously it's not an excuse, this is Facebook levels of
| weirdness to suggest, to say "the public doesn't understand
| what we're storing so we don't have to inform them about it."
| NotYourLawyer wrote:
| I thought we'd have flying cars and a cure for cancer by now, but
| instead a whole generation of intelligent people decided to work
| on... shit like this.
|
| Drink a verification can indeed.
| basilgohar wrote:
| It's finally happened. You literally have to drink an
| authentication can on camera to stay in their program and get
| paid.
| salad-tycoon wrote:
| For the uninitiated this was a 4chan post from over a decade
| ago envisioning what the future dystopian online world would be
| like. In order to play future halo games you would have to
| watch ads, repeat slogans, and drink authentication cans of
| mntn dew. You can read the rest of the post here, worth it:
| https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/632877-halo-4/66477630
| kipchak wrote:
| Sony has a patent for the repeat slogans part. (Say McDonalds
| to end commercial, fig. 9)
| https://patents.google.com/patent/US8246454B2/en
| dimatura wrote:
| This reminds me of something I noticed on this year's "Summer of
| Baja Blast" promotion - to make an entry, all you had to do was
| take a picture of a bottle with your phone - it wasn't scanning
| any barcodes or QR codes. I thought this was a bit strange (and
| possibly open to cheating by reusing bottles, although there was
| a limit of one entry per day). Maybe this was a scheme to get
| image training data?
| lordfrito wrote:
| ... brought to you by Carl's Jr.
| swagmoney1606 wrote:
| THEY MADE PLEASE DRINK VERIFICATION CAN REAL? WHAT THE FUCK
| Animats wrote:
| So somebody actually implemented authentication by drinking a
| can. That used to be a joke.
| PierceJoy wrote:
| Ozempic couldn't have come along at a better time.
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