[HN Gopher] Analyzing the historical rate of catastrophes
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       Analyzing the historical rate of catastrophes
        
       Author : Hooke
       Score  : 39 points
       Date   : 2023-12-05 06:32 UTC (16 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (bounded-regret.ghost.io)
 (TXT) w3m dump (bounded-regret.ghost.io)
        
       | RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote:
       | In the list of catastrophes, the Mongol Wars should probably be
       | included:
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_under_the_Mongol_E...
       | 
       | Some estimates are that 11% of the world's population was killed
       | during this time.
        
         | niccl wrote:
         | Agree that it was a catastrophe by the article's definition,
         | but the author specifically says 'since 1500', which excludes
         | the Mongol Wars (from what I understood from your linked page)
         | 
         | My first thought when I started reading TFA was that the list
         | of catastrophes to consider would be biased because more recent
         | events have better records. Maybe that's why the author decided
         | on the 1500 cut off?
        
           | RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote:
           | The table includes the Plague of Justinian and the An Lushan
           | Rebellion both of which occurred before 1500.
        
             | jsteinhardt wrote:
             | Author here. The Mongol invasions are in the .csv in the
             | appendix (and represented in the scatter plot), but weren't
             | included in the table because it restricts to events that
             | lasted less than a decade.
             | 
             | If you restrict to the single "worst" decade then the
             | Mongol invasions would have been high enough to make the
             | list, but I didn't want to start making too many manual
             | adjustments to the data, so I left it as-is.
        
               | RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote:
               | Makes sense. Thanks for explaining. I really appreciated
               | your in-depth quantitative analysis in the article.
        
       | wodow wrote:
       | For a narrower but deeper treatment of violence (and war) alone,
       | Pinker's
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Better_Angels_of_Our_Natur...
       | is well worth a read.
        
         | brnaftr361 wrote:
         | Skeptically.
         | 
         | Pinker has been called out for cherry picking by numerous other
         | authors, and particularly Graeber/Wengrow who are a duo of
         | academic anthropologist and archaeologist respectively. Another
         | is Christopher Ryan. In both cases well reasoned
         | counterarguments are poised against Pinker's reasoning.
        
       | sigilis wrote:
       | Has there been a single instance of a self replicating ai? The
       | article seems to think so, but try as I might none of the image
       | generators, chess engines, llms, or linear regression models I've
       | used or seen has even once copied itself to another location let
       | alone run itself.
       | 
       | The idea of ai as a novel self replicator is cool and appears in
       | movies and books, but doesn't seem to exist outside of fiction.
       | The other article referenced seems to dream of a future 2030 AI
       | with all the capabilities one can imagine isn't supported by any
       | reasonable projections for AI technology. It might as well be a
       | warning about all the dangerously weaponizable portable fusion
       | reactors that could exist if ITER development is super
       | successful. In this respect, AI seems like an unlikely driver of
       | catastrophe as defined in the near term.
       | 
       | Putting even a 5-10% increase in rates of calamity due to this
       | technology, which has no evidence to support it, while
       | discounting all other technologies including nuclear weapons
       | claiming there's too little data is not reasonable. The reality
       | is, we don't know what risk value to assign. We won't know for
       | some time.
       | 
       | Just leave out the AI bit from the otherwise reasonable looking
       | statistical analysis, and you'll be left with a more
       | intellectually rigorous and useful work.
        
       | AlbertCory wrote:
       | You cannot "estimate" the probability of a catastrophic event,
       | i.e. a Black Swan. All you can say is that it's possible, and
       | over a long enough time period, things like that _will_ happen.
       | As well as things you never imagined.
        
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       (page generated 2023-12-05 23:00 UTC)