[HN Gopher] CA commission says Cruise withheld data about parkin...
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CA commission says Cruise withheld data about parking atop of a
pedestrian
Author : rntn
Score : 46 points
Date : 2023-12-04 20:47 UTC (2 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.theregister.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.theregister.com)
| Animats wrote:
| The same week that happened, a New York Police Department tow
| truck struck a 7-year old child in a crosswalk, walking to
| school, and dragged him 40 feet.[1] The child died. No other
| vehicle contributed to the accident. The tow truck driver was
| charged with failing to yield right of way to a pedestrian.
|
| _" Tyrana Carter, who witnessed the collision, said the boy was
| riding a bright green scooter next to his mother, who was pushing
| another child in a stroller, as they crossed the street. The
| driver of the tow truck, Ms. Carter said, appeared to be trying
| to beat a yellow light when she hit the boy. "When she came
| around the corner, she hit the kid and she rolled over him," said
| Ms. Carter, noting that many children, including the victim, were
| on their way to school."_
|
| This did not result in any policy changes.
|
| [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/26/nyregion/nypd-tow-
| truck-b...
| hnta2023 wrote:
| did the tow truck driver attempt to mislead or cover up what
| happened?
| joombaga wrote:
| The linked article does not suggest she did.
| xp84 wrote:
| I get your valid point here. I think most people would agree
| that they should not try to hide what happened.
|
| But it's also undeniable that there is an impossible double
| standard in play here. Those who believe that no autonomous
| vehicles should be allowed to ever exist use every accident
| like this to try to blanket-ban them (or to make it
| impossible to develop and test them, even if their safety is
| factually no worse (in terms of $bad_thing per vehicle mile
| driven) than human drivers). Those people are being emotional
| and cherry-picking. If every car was self-driving, the
| incident in the article here would have happened, but that
| boy in NYC would still be alive because what AV would have
| gunned it to beat a yellow?
|
| No one can say which life is worth more, however if they can
| demonstrate that there would be fewer deaths by developing
| and having AVs, vs eliminating them, it's a tough sell that
| AVs are evil, unless there is a viable alternative that
| somehow never ever kills or hurts anyone.
| morelisp wrote:
| Did the NYPD try to hide what happened?
|
| Should our bar for acceptable behavior be the NYPD?
| nawgz wrote:
| > This did not result in any policy changes.
|
| Right, and why would it? The headline of the article you linked
| is:
|
| "Driver of N.Y.P.D. Tow Truck Is Charged After Killing 7-Year-
| Old Boy"
|
| Meanwhile, Cruise is a giant corporation who are performing
| research to fuel their for-profit business on public streets,
| which means they therefore answer to the authority of the state
| on the bounds of this research.
|
| The state, seeing that the for-profit corporation is behaving
| in bad faith within the guidelines they've set up, are going to
| update policy / use the punitive actions outlined within that
| policy to answer to this bad faith behavior.
|
| Can you explain to me why these seem to be comparable
| situations that should be treated identically to you?
| tiahura wrote:
| Because they both involve pedestrian deaths?
|
| The point being made is that we've got wildly different,
| possibly irrational so, expectations of safety in these two
| different contexts, but in the end, the consequence is the
| same, an innocent dead pedestrian.
| cyanydeez wrote:
| one has a standard criminal procedure.
|
| the other has...?
| carlosdp wrote:
| > Because they both involve pedestrian deaths?
|
| To my knowledge, the Cruise incident _does not_ involve any
| deaths. The woman was taken to the ICU, but I haven 't seen
| anything about her dying.
| emmender1 wrote:
| allow me..
|
| the person is incentivized to view the events in that manner
| (ie works for or is associated with cruise/autopilot etc)...
| ignormies wrote:
| I'd argue that _both_ should necessitate policy changes. The
| argument that there shouldn't be changes for one if there
| aren't changes for another is a flawed one.
| cyanydeez wrote:
| also, a crime happened and the guilty party was punished.
|
| what exactly is gonna happen if this happens?
|
| if a car kills someone, what's the equivalent criminal
| procedure.
| cyanydeez wrote:
| yes, because there was a guilty party that could be "taken care
| of".
|
| pretty simple logic.
|
| if you go find the engineer who negligent code caused this,
| pretty sure you'd have an equivalence.
| RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote:
| I assume that the intelligence that was controlling the tow
| truck that hit the kid is not going to drive for many years.
|
| I don't see why the intelligence that was controlling the
| Cruise vehicle should also not be able to drive for many years?
| VirusNewbie wrote:
| It's always amazing to me that people are charged so little for
| causing the death of someone purely out of negligence.
|
| If I swung a baseball bat out in public while not paying
| attention and it killed someone, _surely_ I would be at least
| charged with manslaughter? It 's not like we don't know that
| driving a tow truck could crush someone.
| m4jor wrote:
| "Last week, GM CEO Mary Barra said her company would
| "substantially" reduce its spending on Cruise after earlier
| pausing its production of Cruise-branded "Origin" autonomous
| vans. GM has invested around $2 billion in Cruise since it bought
| the company in 201."
|
| Damn, didn't know autonomous vehicles have been around since the
| year 201.
| actionfromafar wrote:
| They were popular for millenia, but feel out of fashion when
| the internal combustion engine was invented. Some say the
| autonomous operation was limited and esily distracted by oats.
| xp84 wrote:
| Technically, horses were able to operate in autonomous mode,
| and did have automatic collision avoidance features.
| fabian2k wrote:
| No idea why this is removed from the frontpage, it's kind of an
| important aspect of how self-driving cars are tested in the US.
| If you rely mostly on self-reporting by the companies testing
| them for oversight, a company not reporting the crucial part of
| an accident that shows that the car did not behave properly is a
| huge deal.
|
| Trying to get out of the way does make sense after a minor
| accident. Doing so after hitting a person is clearly dangerous as
| shown by this incident, and self-driving cars likely should not
| attempt it at all.
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