[HN Gopher] Why does sleep becomes more elusive as we age? Shift...
___________________________________________________________________
Why does sleep becomes more elusive as we age? Shifts in "sleep
architecture"
Author : pseudolus
Score : 79 points
Date : 2023-12-03 19:31 UTC (3 hours ago)
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(TXT) w3m dump (www.salon.com)
| mg wrote:
| Maybe because of less physical activity?
|
| Since 2020 I have manually tracked 35093 data points about my
| life [1]. And the one parameter that correlates most with my
| sleep time is how many steps I took during the day.
|
| The median number of steps I take during a day is about 9500.
|
| When I look at the sleep time of the following night, on average
| I slept an additional 9 minutes after a day with 9500 steps or
| more compared to a day with less than 9500 steps.
|
| The gap increases to 16 minutes when I look at nights where I
| walked over 12000 steps in the previous day.
|
| To see if that is just correlation or if there is causation at
| play, I also started to decide to take an additional walk or not
| by coin flip. So far, I did that 31 times. 16 times the coin
| decided to take a walk, 21 times it decided not to. On average, I
| slept 13 minutes longer after the coin decided that I take an
| additional walk. 31 is a very small N of course. I hope to have a
| larger sample by the end of next year.
|
| 1: https://www.gibney.org/a_syntax_for_self-tracking
| contingencies wrote:
| Makes sense. Also, while overfed idle wealthy people faceplant
| in CPAP machines, older people in traditional cultures with
| healthy physical activity and consumption levels continue to
| live long regardless. For example, the Hunza. Experimental
| results suggest this is because of both their activity levels
| and a reduced caloric intake of a low protein, plant based diet
| high in complex carbohydrates. But what would a continuous
| culture of longevity know?
| twelve40 wrote:
| I've never heard of the Hunza and kind of suspected that
| these "older people in traditional cultures" sounds too good
| to be true, and sure enough:
|
| > A widely repeated claim of remarkable longevity of the
| Hunza people has been refuted as a longevity myth, citing a
| life expectancy of 53 years for men and 52 for women,
| although with a high standard deviation.
| xcv123 wrote:
| That statistic could be skewed by a high childhood
| mortality rate.
| contingencies wrote:
| Like all modern claims, there's probably a kernel of truth.
| The "standard deviation" probably masks it. As with the
| whole world, one doesn't doubt the current population has
| succumbed to modernity. Similar health can be observed in
| physically active people with conservative consumption
| levels globally.
| mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote:
| Worth noting that the only source for that excerpt from
| Wikipedia, for the life expectancy, is some NYT article
| written by a journalist in 1996 which is now paywalled.
| toolz wrote:
| > older people in traditional cultures with healthy physical
| activity and consumption levels continue to live long
| regardless
|
| I agree with the point on physical activity, but the
| implication that traditional cultures have as long or longer
| lifespans is easily dismissed as inaccurate.
| coldtea wrote:
| Can it, if we exclude child mortality (and effects of war,
| resource stealing, etc)?
|
| All so-called "blue zones" are in traditional cultures
| (food and general lifestyle wise).
| Rewrap3643 wrote:
| Sleep apnea is not exclusively a lifestyle disorder. I have
| it with a BMI of under 21.
| beardyw wrote:
| Yes, I find I sleep better after some proper exercise during
| the day. But when I was working I worked from home every work
| day, with only a tour round the block at lunchtime. I did much
| less exercise but slept like a baby. Not so now.
| anonporridge wrote:
| Sleep quality would be a better metric than duration.
|
| HRV is generally the metric used. You can measure that with a
| cheap chest monitor, or get a fitness watch that tracks it
| continuously throughout the day and night.
|
| Good HRV levels are highly correlated to activity level, so
| your base hypothesis still makes sense.
| mg wrote:
| Good point.
|
| Is there a standardized way to measure sleep quality? Or are
| the numbers one measures only compareable as long as one uses
| the same device?
|
| I would be interested in suggestions which watches measure
| the HRV / Sleep quality reliably and display the data on
| screen. Or let me get it from a Linux laptop. I hate having
| to install an app to get the info off the watch.
| anonporridge wrote:
| My understanding is that different devices measure HRV with
| different techniques, so they're not necessarily
| comparable. I've heard Apple Watch is especially bad at
| measuring HRV, while Garmin and Whoop are good.
|
| One performance and health coach I follow recommends the
| Polar H10 chest strap to take a measurement every morning.
|
| https://twitter.com/Alan_Couzens/status/1723334537235607989
|
| https://twitter.com/Alan_Couzens/status/1473672665541984259
|
| There's also not an absolute number or threshold that's
| good or bad. Generally higher is better, but what really
| matters are the fluctuations from a personalized baseline.
| mg wrote:
| Is "take a measurement every morning" about sleep quality
| or about something else?
|
| Is it even possible to sleep with the H10 strap?
| nradov wrote:
| Taking a measurement at the same time every morning helps
| to establish a consistent baseline so that you can detect
| changes from day to day. But the latest generation of
| smart watches can track HRV continuously throughout the
| day, so if you have one of those then taking specific
| measurements is less useful.
| bad_username wrote:
| HRV is indeed a good proxy metric for sleep quality, and I
| can really recommend Garmin watches for measuring it. Even
| the cheap models track the "Stress" metric 24/7 (which is
| HRV under the hood). More expensive ones have pulse ox
| monitoring and a full blown sleep analyzer that provides
| sleep stage breakfown and a compound sleep quality score.
| All from just being worn on the wrist normally through the
| night.
|
| However, HRV is not the whole story about sleep quality. If
| you develop sleep apnea, for example, your HRV will not
| react very much, though your sleep quality will suffer.
| There is no substitute for sleep study to detect such
| issues.
| locallost wrote:
| Physical activity definitely makes a difference, but in my
| experience it will never cause me to sleep like my kids. That
| ship has sailed. I was very active last year, and had many days
| of 30k steps, sometimes although rarely 40k steps and I can't
| say I ever experienced falling a sleep and sleeping 8h rock
| solid. Maybe once.
|
| edit: just checked, I did a 120km bike ride this year and the
| next night I slept for around 6h.
| bad_username wrote:
| > I did a 120km bike ride this year and the next night I
| slept for around 6h.
|
| Intensive or prolonged exercise (especially close to bedtime)
| can actually interfere with sleep. I never sleep very well
| the night after 10k runs or 60km+ rides. There is a sweet
| spot (for sleep quality) between zero exercise and too much
| exercise.
| spaceman_2020 wrote:
| My sleep pattern changed when I had a kid and remained that way.
| I always needed 7 hours of sleep to feel good and productive, but
| after the baby, I've found myself being equally productive with
| 5-5.5hrs of sleep.
| seper8 wrote:
| Nah, you have just gotten used to being lower functioning. Like
| an alcoholic who still thinks he can drive equally well after 5
| beers. At least, almost all of the existing science points into
| this direction.
|
| You aren't sleeping less because you need less. You have lost
| the ability to stay asleep for a healthy amount of time.
| bcrosby95 wrote:
| Just to add onto this with an anecdote, I experienced this
| phenomena for a smaller amount of sleep: 1-3 hours per night.
| But I had other physical effects such as a persistent
| headache - it was obvious it was bad for me.
|
| It took a lot of effort to reset my body to obtain a more
| healthy amount of sleep. I think I went about a month with
| 1-3 hours per night. The initial cause was "sleep regression
| in twins", but that was only for 2 weeks. The next 2 weeks
| was how long it took me to get my body to sleep more than a
| couple hours per night.
| wharvle wrote:
| Nb to observers considering having kids but worried about this,
| unless you're badly space-constrained it's pretty easy to keep
| sleep for both adults north of 6.5hrs a night, and to have
| catch-up nights for both on the weekend (9+ hours). Plus the
| period in which night feedings are necessary, rather than
| habit, is only 2.5-3 months anyway.
|
| It's mostly a fairly simple scheduling problem, plus having one
| adult sleeping somewhere they can't hear the baby during each
| "shift" (loud fans help). Not having to jump _instantly_ on the
| crying baby also lets you slooowwwly stretch your response
| times longer, which is a nice smooth way work toward the
| glorious 1-feeding-per-night and finally no-night-feedings
| period (babies wake up and cry even when not hungry--past the
| earliest weeks, immediate feeding may not be necessary, and if
| you can wait a minute they may go back to sleep, because they
| weren't hungry, they'd just woken up and briefly freaked out--
| if you keep pouncing every time as soon as they make a noise,
| it trains them to stay awake rather than going back to sleep,
| and you'll have a bad time for, potentially, much longer)
|
| All bets off if you have a kid who's ill, but for most babies,
| it's entirely achievable.
| csdvrx wrote:
| > It's mostly a fairly simple scheduling problem, plus having
| one adult sleeping somewhere they can't hear the baby during
| each "shift" (loud fans help).
|
| Wouldn't it be easier to have a soundproofed room for either
| the parents or the baby?
|
| Your key assumption is "not badly space-constrained" is
| plausible, but no time/scheduling constraints for adults
| seems unlikely.
|
| > if you can wait a minute they may go back to sleep, because
| they weren't hungry, they'd just woken up and briefly freaked
| out--if you keep pouncing every time as soon as they make a
| noise, it trains them to stay awake rather than going back to
| sleep, and you'll have a bad time for, potentially, much
| longer
|
| Your observations would be in favor of soundproofing where
| delaying intervention would be a feature, not a bug.
| wharvle wrote:
| What's with the soundproofing thing? I don't follow what
| you're getting at. Yes you could solve the problem with
| soundproofing, but that's really expensive. Some distance
| and a loud fan is something more people already have than
| soundproofed rooms. If you'd rather soundproof, sure, go
| nuts, I'm not providing an exhaustive list of solutions.
|
| > but no time/scheduling constraints for adults seems
| unlikely.
|
| For parents with 9-5 sorts of jobs, it works fine. You
| don't even need "sleep-per-parent x2" amounts of contiguous
| time available, because there'll be a gap of usually a hour
| or three between the last time the kid wakes up for first-
| parent and the first time they wake up for second-parent,
| and it's not like you can't get _any_ sleep while "on
| duty". We were managing 6ish _uninterrupted_ hours per
| parent in the very worst weeks for each kid, and more than
| that for total sleep, with a sleep window (for us, the
| parents) of about 10 hours. Not sure what you mean. Yeah
| inconsistent shift work or something could mess it up, but
| that messes up everything.
| csdvrx wrote:
| > Not sure what you mean
|
| I'm basically non functional at less than 7h of
| uninterrupted sleep per night.
|
| > We were managing 6ish uninterrupted hours per parent
|
| It may not be enough
|
| > What's with the soundproofing thing?
|
| Soundproof the room where either the parents or the baby
| are would be more reliable to control the noise level by
| preventing it from reaching out instead of adding more.
|
| It could also be converted later into a music room
| wharvle wrote:
| If "just soundproof the room" is an option, I'm guessing
| a night nanny's in the budget, too.
|
| What we did was just one of us would sleep in another
| room with the monitor, and the other in our normal
| bedroom. Fan and door closed was all the soundproofing we
| needed in the normal bedroom. But that's why having
| little space might make it a lot tougher--ours relied on
| having three rooms, two of which with sleeping-places for
| adults.
|
| And Ok we probably weren't averaging 7 hours
| uninterrupted until about 6-8 weeks, but total sleep was
| consistently over 7, and uninterrupted of 6ish is a lot
| better than what many parents report (the ones where both
| get up for every feeding... I'll never understand those
| folks)
|
| [edit] my overall point is that with just a little
| thought applied to the problem, and possibly some
| resources but likely not that much if you already live in
| a house instead of a small apartment, you're not
| _guaranteed_ impossibly-short sounding amounts of sleep
| just because you have an infant.
| 123pie123 wrote:
| I suspect the above worked for you? this is 100% nothing like
| my experience and it wasn't a "fairly simple scheduling
| problem"
|
| and "Not having to jump instantly on the crying baby" made
| things worse
|
| our experience was a not great to begin with, but the sleep
| deprivation only lasted around 6-10months per child and for
| the benefits it gave - I would definately do it again
|
| to all the potential parents out there, please do your own
| research and try not to fall in the trap of the victorian
| mindset - which on the whole (massively over simplifying it)
| seems to suggest actions to make your life easier at the
| expense of the baby.
| wharvle wrote:
| Like a charm, three for three. No night feedings past 12
| weeks for any of the three. Longest "cry it out" period of
| the three was three nights (because all were comfortably at
| a single feeding by then, and used to falling back asleep
| on their own after more-minor sleep interruptions) All
| slept great--and as long as medical professionals say they
| should, which is a thing we notice most other young kids in
| our circle _not_ coming even close to doing--until old
| enough to start worrying about death and stuff like that,
| which--yeah, same here, kid.
|
| [edit] and actually the whole rest of this holds without
| capping it with that action, it just means you'll need to
| keep up the shift thing for 6-12 months instead of 3, and--
| from what I've seen--deal with a couple nights a week of
| your kid waking up in the middle of the night the whole
| rest of their early childhood. The shift-sleeping strategy
| has no bearing on that, but does get you a couple REM
| cycles a night, even in the worst of it.
| squidbeak wrote:
| Fancy, but I'm much more inclined to believe the causes are
| simpler. Steadily increasing aches and pains, worry about
| mortality, worry about younger relatives, multiplication of
| regrets, or this side of retirement, the sheer stress of modern
| life, which seems to wear more heavily when there's less time to
| bounce back, substance abuse maybe.
| mongol wrote:
| Yeah, the burdens of adulthood, a more complex life with more
| responsibilities, and so on
| iJohnDoe wrote:
| Good summary.
|
| Oh, to be young again and when you can fall asleep without a
| busy mind keeping you awake.
| ideamotor wrote:
| Jeez, at what age was this true for you? Before puberty,
| surely. I think folks are mythologizing their past a tad bit
| here.
| jwells89 wrote:
| Can't speak for others, by my teenage years were pretty
| worry-free. That may not have been the norm though because
| I spent most of my free time on my computer, pouring many
| hours into Photoshop, WoW, and tinkering with code rather
| than worrying about classmate drama or getting into
| trouble.
|
| Back then, I was practically always dead asleep within
| minutes of my head hitting the pillow and a snooze was
| always within easy reach no matter when I tried (wasn't
| uncommon to have a 1-2 hour nap after coming home from
| school). Flash forward 16 years to today and getting to
| sleep isn't too much of a problem but it's much more common
| to have trouble with getting my head stopped long enough to
| drift off, especially nights when I don't make a point of
| doing almost nothing for 2-3 hours prior to wind down.
| fnordpiglet wrote:
| Perhaps but I think like the rest of the body the brain
| experiences dysfunction as well, which almost certainly impacts
| sleep as a fundamental function of the brain.
| philjohn wrote:
| I find the best way for me to fall asleep is to put on a
| podcast, my current go to is "Now there's your problem" and
| just focus on the words being spoken, pushes everything out of
| my mind.
|
| But also, as I get older I worry less about my own mortality -
| me, you, everyone we both know - all going to die, and worrying
| about it isn't going to change that.
| I_Am_Nous wrote:
| True. I'm Catholic so I even look forward to my death lol
| twic wrote:
| For me, pain is definitely part of it. I fall asleep alright,
| then i wake up with my arms both asleep and my ribs aching
| where i'm lying on them, and it's quite hard to fall asleep
| again. To be honest, i might just need a new mattress.
| chadcmulligan wrote:
| ..and exercise, core strength helps things not hurt, muscles
| hold things in place
| sixothree wrote:
| I like the say the worst part of getting older isn't your body
| breaking down, it's the accumulation of things you can't unsee
| that keep you up at night.
| seviu wrote:
| Funnily enough when I was much younger I developed amnesia. It
| was devastating in many levels. Lost friendships, it impacted my
| long term memory, my concentration. I could go several nights
| without sleep no matter what I did.
|
| My mind would wander, I would worry about things, it was a
| nightmare.
|
| Eventually I had to relearn how to fall asleep. I am now much
| older and I won't say my sleep is perfect, but I can easily fall
| asleep within minutes. I had to rewire myself to empty my mind of
| every external real life related thought. What works for me is to
| build an imaginary world and dive into it. Eventually that world
| disappears and I fall asleep.
|
| I know there are other techniques but this works for me.
| asdfologist wrote:
| Amnesia? Or did you mean insomnia?
| rented_mule wrote:
| I'm not who you're responding to, so I don't know what they
| intended. But sleep issues can certainly lead to memory
| issues. So, maybe both?
|
| When I was in my mid 30s, I suddenly had extreme memory
| issues. For example, at dinner time, I had no memory of what
| I ate for lunch or even if I had lunch at all. I could
| remember people that I knew, but I could not remember if I
| talked with them earlier in the day. It was all very scary.
|
| After various neurological tests showed nothing unusual, my
| doctor thought we should look into sleep issues. It turned
| out I suffer from something called Delayed Sleep Phase
| Syndrome - whereas the average person has a natural bedtime
| that is ~24 hours after they last went to sleep, mine was
| significantly longer than 24 hours.
|
| My doctor concluded that this was the source of my memory
| issues. That confused me a bit, as I experienced trouble
| sleeping my entire life prior to this diagnosis. She
| explained that the consequences of inadequate sleep worsen as
| we age.
|
| It was inconvenient for work and social things, but I was
| able to start living longer days (i.e., don't go to bed until
| I'm sleepy). Within a week, the recall issues I'd had were a
| memory (see what I did there?). I was also able to fall
| asleep much more quickly than I had before, and sleep
| duration didn't have the wild swings I'd experienced all my
| life.
| loxias wrote:
| I would love to hear more about how you successfully releared
| how to fall asleep.
|
| I'm facing a similar battle right now, I've always been a
| "night person" and on a roughly 28h day, for the past year I've
| been (mostly unsuccessfully) trying to force myself into a
| morning person and 24h day. It's kinda worked, though I get btw
| 3-6h of sleep, which isn't enough.
| rainclouds wrote:
| I struggle with this as well and decided the only thing I can
| control is wake up, so I stretch those into 45-90 minute
| periods using increasing music volume to wake up.
|
| Having a time period to wake up makes it more likely I fall
| asleep in a predictable time period. Going to sleep at X to
| wake up at Y is all fail for me.
| jmiskovic wrote:
| My method is similar to meditation. I focus on my faint
| tinnitus, and expand the peripheral awareness to any other
| sounds. When my mind starts wandering I bring the focus back
| to the sense of hearing. It helps clear the mind and I'm out
| in minutes, pretty reliably. Only time it doesn't work is
| when I've had too much coffee (not that I learn from that
| mistake).
|
| I also tried other methods, like reading a book before sleep,
| the 4-7-8 breathing pattern, and the white noise generator,
| but to me they are just distractions.
| kornork wrote:
| What do you mean 28h day? Are you going to bed 4 hours later
| every day than the day before? How can you do this and keep a
| job, or even schedule appointments several weeks out?
| loxias wrote:
| Left to my own devices, I fall into something like that,
| yes. My ideal world would be one in which I was allowed to
| stay up and keep being productive, instead of feeling like
| I'm hitting my stride right as the external world says it's
| time to go to sleep.
|
| I donno, it hasn't been a big deal. I've worked for
| startups and also doing consulting work the past 20 years,
| I always mentioned my weird schedule when interviewing,
| maybe it's tech, maybe just my bubble, but it's fine.
| During that time I didn't tend to schedule many
| appointments.
|
| Now I'm doing a different thing, trying to see if I can
| actually adapt to be on a 24h schedule and be a "morning
| person" and all that.
| ajolly wrote:
| A battled this for most of my life, the biggest difference
| surprisingly has been trying to shift meals earlier and
| earlier in the day. Search for ETRF, early time restricted
| feeding.
| Projectiboga wrote:
| Body produced Melatonin levels go down throughout adulthood.
| cracrecry wrote:
| Does it?
|
| I firmly believe that most problems people have with sleep also
| depend on modern "way of living", that is highly Artificial.
|
| For example, lots of people have Apnea, and Apnea is highly
| correlated with being obese, and being obese is normal in the
| Western world, but it was not 100 years ago.
|
| So it is not about being older but about being overweight,
| something that depends on eating healthy and exercising, that
| most people do not do.
|
| Another important factor is artificial lighting, again a 100
| years old thing, people that have used candles know how dim they
| are, and people using screens in the bedroom until late,
| specially social media.
|
| Social Media is addictive, but you don't need to use it, people
| can stop using it, but they just don't want to.
|
| Also living in the city is noisy, expensive and stressful. Most
| people are worried about lots of things, and that makes them
| sleep badly.
| letmevoteplease wrote:
| Also alarm clocks, caffeine, unnatural sleep schedules. This
| site[1] has lots of good information, with this basic
| (unfortunately impossible for many) recommendation:
|
| "There is only one formula for healthy and refreshing sleep: Go
| to sleep only when you are very tired. Not earlier. Not later.
| Wake up naturally without an alarm clock."
|
| [1] https://supermemo.guru/wiki/Science_of_sleep
| EA-3167 wrote:
| Unfortunately for me that would entail staying up until 3AM
| and waking up at 11AM. That might work for me, but it doesn't
| work for my professional or social life.
| hermanradtke wrote:
| It is worse. The sleep formula article says free sleep
| often involves 24 hour sleep sessions, which is practically
| impossible for most people.
| sen wrote:
| Yeah I had a period before I had kids and when I worked for
| myself where I could sleep whenever I wanted. I'd get tired
| around 3-4am, go to sleep about 5am, wake up around 12-1pm,
| and felt great every day. The most energy, motivation, and
| general good moods I've had in my life.
|
| Then kids + career = 10pm-5am sleep schedule and pretty
| much feel tired (struggling-to-function tired) 24/7.
| gambiting wrote:
| In the same cart now. Not sure how you can stay
| functional as a human with a 2 year old who won't sleep
| past 6am. Going to bed super early doesn't seem to help
| either. I can force myself to go to sleep before 10pm so
| in theory I get a full restorative 8 hours of sleep, but
| I don't feel _anywhere_ near as rested as I was doing
| 2am-10am.
| golergka wrote:
| One more reason to embrace fully remote work with async
| communication. I'm in my top work shape at 2am, when slack
| is dead silent.
| hermanradtke wrote:
| > only when you are very tired
|
| The sleep formula article said "truly sleepy" which, to me,
| is significantly different from "very tired".
| globular-toast wrote:
| > "There is only one formula for healthy and refreshing
| sleep: Go to sleep only when you are very tired. Not earlier.
| Not later. Wake up naturally without an alarm clock."
|
| I did that for years when I was younger. For me that meant a
| longer-than-24-hour day which quickly led to being completely
| nocturnal. Those were dark days, literally and figuratively.
| I can distinctly remember my first "day" without daylight. It
| wasn't a nice feeling. I would usually try to correct it when
| that happened which was like having a 12 hour jet lag.
| SantalBlush wrote:
| All of these other factors you've mentioned do nothing to rule
| out age as a factor. These things aren't mutually exclusive.
| hindsightbias wrote:
| This may be obvious to most, but if you can't sleep and your mind
| is empty, you probably have something bio going on.
|
| If you can't sleep and you have ten things you're worrying about
| then it's probably more psychological and you might have to get
| that sorted before expecting night bliss.
|
| Have been amazed the number of people who complain about sleep
| and have all sorts of drama going on. People have this sense that
| the act of laying down and closing your eyes = sleep mode.
| charlie0 wrote:
| "Sleep architeture"...where can I find the Dream engineers?
| aquafox wrote:
| IIRC, the explanation of Matthew Walker, a well respected sleep
| researcher and author, (https://www.amazon.com/Why-We-Sleep-
| Unlocking-Dreams/dp/1501...) involves melatonin. It's a sleep
| timer: Melatonin levels peek in the middle of the day and are
| lowest around midnight. "Around" is the important part. As we get
| older, melatonines gets is earlier and earlier, say 1am for a
| juvenile but 8pm for a retiree. But the retiree doesn't got to
| sleep at 8pm because of social activities, watching a movie or a
| late night sports game. By the time he goes to bed, it's already
| too late and at 4am, melatonin levels are so high that he cannot
| sleep anymore, despite being tired.
| ashirviskas wrote:
| I've read that Matthew Walker isn't a good source on sleep, as
| he tends to just make up some claims or bend the data to
| support whatever point he wants to make [1].
|
| [1] - https://guzey.com/books/why-we-sleep/
|
| EDIT:
|
| >Melatonin levels peek in the middle of the day and are lowest
| around midnight.
|
| Isn't that the opposite of how melatonin works?
| glitchc wrote:
| How can it be that high melatonin levels wake you up when
| people are given melatonin supplements to fall asleep?
| porknubbins wrote:
| This finding seems to be at odds with what I have heard about
| melatonin. Everything I have read says higher melatonin helps
| promote sleep, otherwise why would taking small doses near
| bedtime work?
| fooker wrote:
| This is anecdotal, but whenever I have managed to keep my phone
| in a different room, I get pure uninterrupted sleep.
| beebeepka wrote:
| Since I almost never sleep for more than 5-6 hours, in my early
| 20s I wanted the cycle to be more like 32 hours, or at least 28.
| Now, 20 years later, I think 32 would be too much but 28 is still
| looking attractive to me, especially with an afternoon nap just
| after lunch.
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