[HN Gopher] Lobsters
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Lobsters
        
       Author : tosh
       Score  : 200 points
       Date   : 2023-12-03 16:34 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (github.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (github.com)
        
       | bmsleight_ wrote:
       | I quite like Lobste.rs - yes it is is a ghost town. I dont have a
       | login as know no one on it. But it less reddit that maybe modern
       | day Hacker news can be.
        
         | warkanlock wrote:
         | Ghost town? It's active and growing!
        
           | corobo wrote:
           | It still seems about the same as it has been for years from
           | an outside perspective
           | 
           | <20 comments (votes, even) on most posts
           | 
           | It's pretty ghostly for a site that's been around since 2012
        
             | praptak wrote:
             | Why would I care about these numbers? It has up to date
             | discussion on interesting news, so it's alive and kicking.
        
               | corobo wrote:
               | Why would you personally care? No idea, I don't know you.
               | 
               | Why would anyone else care that there's discussion on a
               | discussion forum? Because that's the point of it lol
        
               | s1artibartfast wrote:
               | I have never thought of it that way, and I'm still not
               | sure I understand the idea. For some people the point of
               | visiting a site is related to the number of votes or
               | comments?
        
               | corobo wrote:
               | Well no the numbers aren't going to be a thing anyone
               | directly cares about. Of course not, haha. Looking at my
               | previous comments I'm not sure I even said anything that
               | would imply that?
               | 
               | What the numbers represent (how active the community is)
               | is the bit folks would care about.
               | 
               | In any case I used the numbers as a measure of how much
               | the site is growing or not growing in response to the
               | comment I responded to. The numbers seem the same as
               | they've always been, hence it does not look like they are
               | growing as the comment I responded to was claiming.
        
               | s1artibartfast wrote:
               | Thanks for clarification. I thought you were suggesting
               | size or growth as a value themselves.
               | 
               | I agree people want some activity on discussion forums,
               | otherwise what's the point. Another hand I think a lot of
               | people think volume is inversely related to Quality once
               | you get past a certain threshold
        
               | dun44 wrote:
               | When things grow, they change, often becoming worse from
               | their "old" users point of view. So, why would you want
               | it to grow, as opposed to staying the way you like it?
        
               | costco wrote:
               | I enjoy HN as much as the next guy but it's easy to get
               | high comment counts when you count archive.is links (and
               | the ensuing 4 levels nested argument about why they don't
               | work with Cloudflare DNS and who's in the right on that),
               | complaints about CSS/scroll hijacking, and general
               | pedantry. You can find many cases where interesting but
               | pretty specific kind of technical stuff sort of
               | languishes at the bottom of the front page whereas
               | flamebait type articles that tap into the vague
               | libertarian anti-surveillance sentiment that is popular
               | here get hundreds of comments. Not that I don't generally
               | agree with it, just that I've heard all the arguments a
               | million times and I'd rather learn about how to use AVX2
               | instructions. I think the algorithm should have some sort
               | of subject based ranking, where highly repetitive topics
               | are penalized. Or maybe it already does and the sheer
               | popularity of the stuff makes it show up regardless.
               | 
               | That being said, I haven't seen that many interesting
               | things on Lobsters that weren't also on HN. Only one that
               | comes to mind is the Go 1.22 inlining overhaul but I just
               | googled it and apparently that was also on HN, I just
               | missed it.
        
               | corobo wrote:
               | I made no comparison to HN, nor would I want to. I try to
               | avoid having an "us vs them" mindset because it makes for
               | boring conversation. I don't dislike lobste.rs in any
               | way, I just prefer a wider variety of opinions to go with
               | my tech news so I only really pop by when I'm reminded it
               | exists.
               | 
               | For the record my preferred variety of opinions does not
               | include spam and the other repetitive guff you mention
               | haha, I'll be the first on the downvote and/or flag train
               | for those comments. Absolute yawn fests the lot of them.
               | 
               | Anyway I mentioned numbers because they didn't seem to
               | have changed, I'm not saying more numbers = better forum.
               | That would be daft. More varied and therefore more
               | interesting (to me)? Sure, aye. Better or worse? Nah.
        
             | TillE wrote:
             | Yeah that's some extremely sparse discussion, on par with a
             | really tiny subreddit.
             | 
             | Maybe it's ok if you're just passively using it as an
             | aggregator of interesting links?
        
         | stephenr wrote:
         | > know no one on it
         | 
         | Shoot me an email, it's in my profile.
        
       | bdcravens wrote:
       | No version numbers in the Gemfile? That's brave.
        
         | riffraff wrote:
         | I feel versions in Gemfile tend to make things harder to update
         | and often end up accidentally retaining some old version. You
         | won't get a random version bump unless you do `bundle update`
         | anyway, since you have a lock file.
         | 
         | Unless you really need a specific version, let those gems be
         | free :)
        
           | rad_gruchalski wrote:
           | > Unless you really need a specific version, let those gems
           | be free
           | 
           | A wet dream of anyone looking for a method to perform a
           | supply chain attack.
        
             | riffraff wrote:
             | that is what Gemfile.lock is for. You are not getting a new
             | version unless you do ask for it explicitly.
        
               | rad_gruchalski wrote:
               | Yeah, that's actually true. I looked at it from a wrong
               | angle.
        
             | CodesInChaos wrote:
             | Those are just as easy when using the standard "semver
             | compatible with the specified version" approach. The
             | lockfile will prevent such attacks on build, and on upgrade
             | it doesn't really matter security wise if the new version
             | has the same major version.
        
           | brink wrote:
           | Being harder to update is the point.
           | 
           | With ruby being untyped and lazy evaluated, it's even worse.
           | If any library's api changes between versions, unless you're
           | sure you have a unit test for that function, it'll happily
           | deploy and crash in production.
           | 
           | Plus as long as you're using a service like snyk.io to make
           | sure that you're covering security vulnerabilities, there's
           | usually not much reason to updating if it works.
        
       | Xiol32 wrote:
       | Would be less of a ghost town if they allowed sign ups rather
       | than via invitation only.
       | 
       | Appreciate that's kinda the point of the site, but if it's a
       | ghost town then it's clearly petered out.
        
         | bigdubs wrote:
         | Quantity may have a quality all its own in warfare but for
         | comments having the invite tree and accountability is pretty
         | nice!
         | 
         | I'd rather have (2) really insightful comments than 300 trying
         | to promote themselves.
        
           | tapirl wrote:
           | Invite doesn't always guarantee insightful comments.
        
           | thrdbndndn wrote:
           | From my experience in invite-only forums, it can only assure
           | some bottom line (mainly, fewer troll posts), but it doesn't
           | help at all on the quality of comments.
           | 
           | The only thing I saw that ever significantly improved the
           | quality of comments is vote-based comment system when it
           | firstly started to emerge (I'm thinking Reddit in its first
           | few years). But unfortunately it nowadays has been gamed to
           | death, probably even worse than old public forums.
        
           | gtirloni wrote:
           | Except you don't see those 2 really insightful comments
           | there.
        
           | robocat wrote:
           | > 300
           | 
           | Exaggerating doesn't make reflect well on your argument.
           | 
           | HN doesn't have a huge problem with self-promotion.
        
         | wrs wrote:
         | I read HN for the links, because of the quantity, and lobste.rs
         | for the comments, because of the quality.
        
         | andy99 wrote:
         | They discuss under "invitation tree" how it's possible to get
         | an invite if you want one.
         | 
         | https://lobste.rs/about
         | 
         | I don't have an account although a couple things I wrote got
         | posted there, if I'd realized it at the time that apparently
         | qualifies me.
         | 
         | Overall I don't know if the quality is better than HN, even if
         | the SNR is higher, there is just so much less total that the
         | sum of good stuff is lower. It's almost completely free of
         | politics, gossip, non-tech stuff though which is nice. For
         | example I don't think any of the OpenAI drama was covered
         | there.
         | 
         | Otoh the links posted there are essentially a subset of what's
         | posted on HN.
        
           | some_furry wrote:
           | If you want an invite, ask your friends if anyone has an
           | account.
        
             | Tamer wrote:
             | Will you be my friend?
        
           | fifteen1506 wrote:
           | A good samaritan on the other Blue site gave me one but I
           | haven't had good comments to make since.
        
         | some_furry wrote:
         | It's not a ghost town, it's just not as noisy as HN. It's quite
         | active.
        
           | xena wrote:
           | I mean, compared to Hacker News in comment velocity and
           | overall homepage change rate yeah it's a lot slower.
           | Microscopically slow in comparison. Some people that are used
           | to the fast-paced change of feeds like you have on bigger
           | social media websites get used to the rapid pace of how
           | things change. It can feel really weird when things _don't_
           | change that fast (such as how people bounce off of Mastodon
           | because they don't know how to curate their feed anymore). I
           | kinda like it, but I've been trying to break the addiction
           | cycles of things like Twitter, so for each their own.
        
         | insanitybit wrote:
         | I post on there most days. It's not really a ghost town, and
         | there's a _lot_ less noise than HN with only a bit less signal.
        
         | agent281 wrote:
         | It's definitely not a ghost town. It's just not a treadmill.
         | It's hard to have a conversation on hacker news because (1)
         | articles cycle through quickly and (2) you don't get reply
         | notifications. Lobsters is a bit more human scale IMO.
        
           | TheSpiceIsLife wrote:
           | To get automated email notifications of replies to your
           | comments see http://www.hnreplies.com/
        
         | gaws wrote:
         | > _rather than via invitation only._
         | 
         | This is a good thing.
        
       | 38 wrote:
       | Not a fan of having to beg for an invitation. Seems like HN is
       | able to handle moderation with a small crew.
        
         | mariusor wrote:
         | Small crew of very high quality *paid* moderators. I don't know
         | how many other hats Daniel wears in YC, but based on the times
         | he's active here, he's spending _a lot_ of time doing
         | moderation work.
         | 
         | Lobste.rs, as far as I know, works only with volunteers which
         | probably are an incohesive group of random people with random
         | thresholds for how they moderate. It's entirely reasonable for
         | such a community to build redundancies in the methods for
         | lowering unwanted content.
        
         | zimpenfish wrote:
         | > Seems like HN is able to handle moderation with a small crew.
         | 
         | A certain amount of moderation. There's still a large amount of
         | content posted on here that should probably have been moderated
         | but isn't (for whatever reason.)
        
       | voidfunc wrote:
       | I had a lobster account and a bunch of invites once upon a time.
       | Totally forgot about it. Closed gate HN never really appealed to
       | me.
        
       | eatonphil wrote:
       | Good posts on software more reliably get to the top of lobste.rs
       | than on HN in my experience. Whereas on HN you're competing with
       | a wide variety of topics. Lobste.rs is pretty focused on just
       | hardware/software hacking.
       | 
       | I don't mean that negatively. I'm glad we talk about varied
       | topics on HN. But it's also nice to have a place that almost only
       | talks about software/hardware.
       | 
       | Sometimes I've thought about starting a "software internals"
       | forum but then I remember that's basically exactly what lobste.rs
       | already is.
        
         | linusg789 wrote:
         | Hit the nail on the head.
        
         | xoranth wrote:
         | It's not (just) the variety of topics, it is that HN has way
         | more users (and therefore way more submissions).
         | 
         | A submission on lobste.rs will stay on top of recent/newest for
         | days, on HN it might be minutes.
        
       | treesciencebot wrote:
       | Any reason why HN source code is not published? The best I can
       | think of is not to let people see the penalizing behavior, but
       | having an open standard might actually help it improve rather
       | than keeping it as a hidden secret that slowly gets discovered by
       | independent malicious parties.
        
         | capableweb wrote:
         | Here you can find the latest public code:
         | http://arclanguage.org/
         | 
         | But I don't think there has been any public updates since that
         | release (edit: updates from YC. There is a community-led
         | project that continues to improve the codebase after that
         | release)
        
         | shawnz wrote:
         | It shares the same lineage as this code:
         | https://github.com/arclanguage/anarki/tree/master/apps/news
        
         | dun44 wrote:
         | >The best I can think of is not to let people see the
         | penalizing behavior
         | 
         | I wonder if it would be possible to split HN (or any other HN-
         | like site) into two halves: one would handle the actual storage
         | of posts and comments, and another would handle the scoring, ie
         | the order the comment tree branches appear in. Then we could
         | have multiple of the latter, competing with each other on the
         | scoring alone, with the actual content being common.
        
           | solardev wrote:
           | Kinda like how reddit has "hot", "top", and "best"?
        
             | dun44 wrote:
             | More like with Usenet where every user would have their own
             | scorefile, which determined the order they would see posts.
             | Except without having every user to manage it for
             | themselves, instead choosing which "frontend" to use.
        
           | jedberg wrote:
           | The reddit open source code was basically this. The whole
           | thing was open, including the scoring, but all the spam
           | functions were just stubs that returned True or False as
           | appropriate, without all the logic. Then we would override
           | those functions with a private library that had all the spam
           | logic.
           | 
           | I find your idea interesting about having a service that
           | stores the links and comments (and presumably does spam
           | controls too) but anyone can put their own scoring/sorting
           | algo on it.
        
             | defrost wrote:
             | There's an interesting less granular pooled approach worth
             | exploring .. seeing the aggregate scoring of {people you
             | follow} | {friends} | {Dev community} | {carpentry fans}.
             | 
             | It's the "crowd I find of interest" also found "this stuff
             | to be interesting".
        
         | tptacek wrote:
         | There's probably not all that much to see past the decade-old
         | public release from the arc project. The parts of it that
         | aren't public past that are non-public by necessity, like the
         | voting ring detector stuff.
        
         | aftbit wrote:
         | I would guess it's part of the ethos of not spending more time
         | and effort on HN than strictly needed. Perhaps also a bit of
         | the standard silicon valley culture of building on open source
         | but not actually contributing anything meaningful back.
        
       | Hakashiro wrote:
       | I had an account here. I still do.
       | 
       | Like some other people point out: Invitation-only means trolls
       | are less likely to show up. But the higher end of quality is not
       | significantly better than HN.
       | 
       | If anything, it might be worse.
       | 
       | My experience with the moderation there is that some people post
       | clear self-promotion articles, but when I attempted to post my
       | things, I get told that this content is not welcome on the site.
       | Why my content is not welcome and other people's self-promotional
       | articles are I don't quite understand, but it is obvious they
       | don't need me on the website.
        
         | mooreds wrote:
         | > when I attempted to post my things, I get told that this
         | content is not welcome on the site. Why my content is not
         | welcome and other people's self-promotional articles are I
         | don't quite understand, but it is obvious they don't need me on
         | the website.
         | 
         | I feel the same. I spent a fair bit of time on the site,
         | including posting ~600 articles and commenting. Some of my
         | posts got a fair bit of upvotes. I got a couple of warnings
         | when I posted my own content, even though it was 5-10% of my
         | posts. Super frustrating, so I told the moderator I wasn't
         | going to participate any more. And I haven't. Their site, their
         | rules, but I don't have to spend my time there.
         | 
         | https://lobste.rs/~mooreds is my profile.
        
           | andy99 wrote:
           | Weird because primarily submitting one's own stuff seems to
           | be pretty common there. Random example from a user currently
           | on the front page: https://lobste.rs/~rednafi/stories
           | 
           | And that is not the only one on the front page right now
           | that's submitting mostly their own stuff.
        
             | everybodyknows wrote:
             | That user's submissions are all within the past week. You
             | may have found someone gaming the site.
        
             | buildbot wrote:
             | That's not a particularly good example, their latest self-
             | promo post has a warning from the mod on it...
        
               | hwayne wrote:
               | To nitpick: that's not a comment from a mod. Posts
               | speaking _from a position of mod_ will have [sysop] next
               | to the title. It 's part of a "hats system", which more
               | generally allows people to speak as representative of
               | something. IE if /u/johncheng was a Rust core dev, they
               | can post whatever they want as John Cheng, but also write
               | posts as [core dev] to say they're speaking as part of
               | the core team.
               | 
               | It's a neat system but doesn't see much use in practice,
               | aside from the occasional [sysop] warning.
        
               | buildbot wrote:
               | Oh I didn't know that! Thanks for the explanation.
        
             | mooreds wrote:
             | I stopped posting three years ago, maybe the culture has
             | changed?
        
               | andy99 wrote:
               | Personally I don't see a problem with someone posting
               | their own content, especially with voting based ranking.
               | As long as it's not spam and is on-topic for the site,
               | the origin shouldn't really matter. Compared with someone
               | who posts only New York Times articles, I'd rather see
               | someone post their blog entries.
        
         | pixl97 wrote:
         | This is a common failure mode that's seen in some reddit subs.
         | 
         | In reddit, the moderators of that sub get a particular idea of
         | how their sub should look, which oddly enough includes the idea
         | that what they do is always right. Any sub that can have
         | physical products backing it, such as makeup, will commonly
         | fall in this trap.
         | 
         | Mods: "You cannot promote products here... (unless you're one
         | of my friends or giving me kickbacks".
         | 
         | Now with Reddit, you have a very large usebase to keep the sub
         | alive. But small sites will commonly strangle themselves by
         | doing this.
        
           | lormayna wrote:
           | This resembles exactly the description of moderation in
           | /r/italy. There are more people banned from there than people
           | subscribing this subreddit.
        
             | undersuit wrote:
             | WTH happened in November 2021 to kill that sub?
        
               | eszed wrote:
               | Just Googling and guessing:
               | 
               | Maybe, "Italy Announces New Restrictions For the
               | Unvaccinated"?
               | 
               | https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/24/world/europe/italy-
               | vaccin...
               | 
               | Or, right-wing stuff about immigration?
               | 
               | https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/25/matteo-
               | salvini...
               | 
               | Those are hot-buttons that have ruined other communities,
               | so whatever the specifics for that sub, my guess is
               | Political Controversy. Anyone on here know anything for
               | sure?
        
               | GaggiX wrote:
               | I'm on this subreddit, but it doesn't really seem dead to
               | me, where does "November 2021" come from?
        
               | nvm0n2 wrote:
               | Posts per day flatlined that month after being sustained
               | at ~50 per day for years:
               | 
               | https://subredditstats.com/r/italy
               | 
               | ... implying that the sub was destroyed by its
               | moderators.
        
           | undersuit wrote:
           | >you have a very large usebase to keep the sub alive.
           | 
           | I don't know about that. You have a large userbase of
           | upvoters sure, but commenter were declining in quantity long
           | before the June API changes on a number of subs that were
           | more discussion based than meme or article upvotes.
           | 
           | https://subredditstats.com/r/conspiracy Conspiracy is a good
           | example of a discussion sub, no comment on the actual
           | discussions, driven by upvotes and were did all the
           | commenters go before June's API disruption while the
           | subscribers kept climbing?
        
             | pixl97 wrote:
             | What happened with conspiracy has a lot more to do with
             | politics.
        
             | Loughla wrote:
             | Like the other poster said. Conspiracy is less about the
             | api and more (waaaaaaayyyyy more) about fringe politics
             | becoming mainstream. It was one of the first subs to rot
             | during the 2016 and then died during the 2020 American
             | presidential elections.
        
         | evantbyrne wrote:
         | I've been lurking on Lobsters for a while, and have definitely
         | noticed that the self-promotion rule is selectively enforced.
         | Just pivot into exclusively writing content about an
         | impractical docker alternative, and you should be golden.
         | 
         | Snark aside, they could codify exactly what frequency of self-
         | posting is allowed, and let the existing voting system dictate
         | what rises to the top. I'm not sure Lobsters sees any issues
         | with how they self-moderate though. Personally, I have always
         | felt that invite-only communities have weird vibes to them.
         | Still find it worth lurking for more esoteric content though.
        
           | giancarlostoro wrote:
           | I think the sweet spot is opening up x number of
           | registrations every few months.
        
           | narag wrote:
           | _I have always felt that invite-only communities have weird
           | vibes to them._
           | 
           | So have I. The most weird thing is nobody ever invites me :)
           | 
           |  _Still find it worth lurking for more esoteric content
           | though._
           | 
           | More esoteric content than HN? I find a lot of alien topics
           | here. My biggest complain about HN is not on that particular.
        
             | gumby wrote:
             | What are your complaints about HN?
        
               | narag wrote:
               | The tone of the comments have evolved over time. When I
               | first found this site, it had a high percentage of
               | entrepreneurs trying to build startups. Refreshing
               | compared to Slashdot that was getting a little more
               | cultish by the day.
               | 
               | Later the founders got _diluted_ , I guess by the influx
               | of employees of said startups, big tech or consultancies,
               | like myself, then anyone from the outskirts. The vibes
               | changed dramatically, until it was unhospitable for the
               | original population. Many of them vanished. Even pg
               | doesn't write here anymore and when some of his essays
               | are posted the reception is outright hostile.
               | 
               | I'm not talking about politics, not only. A lot of
               | comments are on the opposite extreme from the original
               | curiousity and build mindset. People saying that any idea
               | presented won't work, is useless, is nothing new. People
               | talking about what _should_ be, but in denial about what
               | _is_ and of course never _doing_ anything.
               | 
               | There are many perfectly reasonable things you can't say
               | here.
               | 
               | So we have like... the Internet, more civil than average
               | and with a lot of interesting links. Also there are some
               | fellow commenters that I love to read.
        
         | rebeccaskinner wrote:
         | I had a similar experience. I simply deleted my account and
         | left the site. If my contributions weren't welcome then that's
         | the choice of the moderators, but I had no desire to try to
         | participate in a forum where simply linking to relevant non-
         | promotional content that happens to be posted on your own
         | website will get you accused of being a spammer.
        
         | tempodox wrote:
         | That's probably why it's a ghost town. As far as I'm concerned,
         | they can kiss my backside.
        
         | Kye wrote:
         | There's a little button on the submit form that adds a tag to
         | say you're the author. If you forget it and it comes out,
         | people tend to assume it's on purpose.
        
         | notatoad wrote:
         | yeah, the problem with invite only is that it removes the best
         | and the worst users. it self-selects for the sort of
         | terminally-online people willing to put up with an invite
         | process. people like me.
         | 
         | the best content on sites like this is the random comment that
         | appears from somebody who's the absolute undisputed expect on
         | some subject, and doesn't normally leave comments, but sees an
         | opportunity to share their knowledge and does so because it's
         | low enough friction.
        
       | packetlost wrote:
       | Lobsters has a simple but effective and fairly strongly enforced
       | tag system that makes it far easier to curate your feed than HN.
       | Despite what others have said here, it is not a ghost town at
       | all, it's intentionally lower noise and they'd like to keep it
       | that way.
        
         | everybodyknows wrote:
         | > fairly strongly enforced tag system
         | 
         | Quite a disciplined policy by the stewards of the website. How
         | does the enforcement work against say, overtagging?
         | 
         | Also this:
         | 
         | > Inactive tags can no longer be used on new stories.
         | 
         | https://lobste.rs/tags
         | 
         | Roughly 100 tags on the page. I see "news" and "ipv6" marked as
         | no longer active. I'm guessing that "inactive" implies dropping
         | from SQL indexes as an economy measure, while retaining
         | unmodified in the original post's metadata.
        
           | ignaloidas wrote:
           | > Quite a disciplined policy by the stewards of the website.
           | How does the enforcement work against say, overtagging?
           | 
           | Tags are used as negative signal, rather than positive (as
           | in, you filter out tags you don't like, rather than taking
           | the ones you do), so overtagging would kill the submission,
           | and missing tags will be added by others via suggestions
           | (which automatically add the tag after some threshold amount
           | of suggestions).
        
         | kristianp wrote:
         | The ghost town link in the readme is gold:
         | https://twitter.com/webshitweekly/status/1399935275057389571
        
       | rglullis wrote:
       | Aside from the argument for/against lobste.rs, is there anything
       | in the codebase that is worthwhile? Any feature/functionality
       | that could be implemented in Lemmy, for example?
        
         | whalesalad wrote:
         | It's a decent example to follow for a run of the mill rails
         | app.
        
       | stephenr wrote:
       | Lobste.rs definitely feels like less of an echo chamber: both
       | Reddit and HN have a large "I don't agree with you, downvote"
       | population - on HN this is officially endorsed as "correct" use
       | too.
        
         | Rochus wrote:
         | According to my experience rather on Lobsters participants seem
         | to be mostly concerned with nagging. Rarely got a useful or
         | positive comment for my posts there. There is a small circle of
         | users who have a particularly good relationship with the admin
         | and flag everything they don't like. I had much better
         | discussions and more useful feedback on some subreddits.
         | 
         | I agree that the downvoting possibility encourages misuse.
         | There is no downvoting on Lobsters, but people instead flag
         | whatever they don't like, even if there is objectively no
         | violation of the site rules. Actually I would prefer a site
         | where you can only upvote or flag, not downvote, but the admin
         | in that case should charge people who misuse flagging.
        
           | stephenr wrote:
           | Flagged _as what_ though?
           | 
           | Without seeing actual examples of posted articles that were
           | flagged it's honestly impossible to make any judgement.
           | 
           | Edit: I should point out that this isn't a hypothetical
           | question either. As the moderation log is open, we can see
           | _exactly_ why a user was banned or post was removed etc.
        
             | Rochus wrote:
             | Unfortunately many examples; usually it starts with a "-1
             | spam", e.g. for this post: https://lobste.rs/s/ebztmj/now_w
             | e_know_which_cs_publication_...
             | 
             | And if you then complain that the post doesn't violate
             | house rules, you get some obviously wrong claims from
             | someone of the inner circle why it does; if you then
             | contradict to these claims or present facts, you usually
             | get flagged for trolling, and eventually your comments are
             | removed by the admin. I have still an account but don't
             | spend more time there.
        
               | stephenr wrote:
               | > you get some obviously wrong claims
               | 
               | I can't possibly imagine why you ever had a problem
               | 
               | Edit: sorry I forgot to add the /s. I really thought it
               | would be obvious _this time_.
        
               | Rochus wrote:
               | Well, I was (unfortunately) not surprised because it
               | already happened with some posts before. There are some
               | really destructive people there.
        
               | bb010g wrote:
               | As a Lobsters user, I think you could have avoided those
               | spam flags with a less click-baity title and opening line
               | of the body. "MIT CSG Memo 137 was the first CS
               | publication to use the term "object-oriented"" would have
               | been a better title, since you posted after the result
               | was discovered.
               | 
               | Also, Hillel Wayne already politely explained this to
               | you! https://lobste.rs/s/ebztmj/now_we_know_which_cs_publ
               | ication_...
        
               | Rochus wrote:
               | Which is obviously nonsense. But frankly, I have no
               | desire to reopen this pointless debate. They shall be
               | happy with their platform, just without me.
        
               | metabagel wrote:
               | I don't use lobsters, but I feel like it's courteous to
               | summarize and then link, which you did not do.
        
         | kbenson wrote:
         | For what it's worth, I've found reddit and H distinctly
         | different in the down voting behavior. Reddit will down vote on
         | disagree (depending on subreddit) no matter how the info or
         | opinion is presented, but in my experience where it appears HN
         | is down voting on disagreement it's more that the presentation
         | was too forceful.
         | 
         | The biggest example of that IMO is people presenting opinions
         | as fact rather than something to be explored. This can be
         | subtle, and in conflict with how people debate or often discuss
         | between two people, but given it's a public forum, a sprinkling
         | of "I think" or "it seems to me" in in comments goes a long way
         | towards not only not triggering some people into down voting,
         | but also seems to promote more useful discussion around the
         | topic as those or others seem more likely to voice their
         | differences.
        
       | kirubakaran wrote:
       | If you want Lobsters style tags and filtering on Hacker News
       | stories: https://histre.com/hn/
       | 
       | (d: mine)
        
         | everybodyknows wrote:
         | Don't see any clues here as to how the tags are chosen and
         | matched to stories. Can you provide further?
        
           | kirubakaran wrote:
           | Sure, here is the Show HN for it:
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35904988 Thanks for
           | checking it out. Please let me know if you have any other
           | questions.
        
       | GaggiX wrote:
       | I think the killer feature that HN has compared to any other site
       | I know is Dang.
        
         | tptacek wrote:
         | Lobsters has had a series of thoughtful moderators.
        
           | GaggiX wrote:
           | That's not really what people are sharing in this thread, to
           | be honest.
        
             | tptacek wrote:
             | I've read the thread and don't know what you mean.
        
               | GaggiX wrote:
               | It's literally the top comment and its children.
        
               | tptacek wrote:
               | I've certainly read that thread, and I don't know what
               | you're trying to say.
        
               | GaggiX wrote:
               | Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought you were trying to compare
               | the Lobsters moderators to Dang in a positive way,
               | something not really emphasized in the top comment and
               | its children.
        
               | stephenr wrote:
               | Pretty much any complaint about moderation from anyone
               | _always_ has another side to the story.
               | 
               | At least two of the tales of woe posted in this
               | discussion have shown that the user was not in fact
               | blameless.
        
               | GaggiX wrote:
               | If that what tptacek meant he could have said that
               | instead of saying "I don't understand, I don't get it"
               | ahah
        
               | tptacek wrote:
               | Even that is not what I meant. The top comment on that
               | thread consists of a complaint that self-promotion rules
               | appear inconsistently enforced. Maybe they are, maybe
               | they aren't; I don't know. But that doesn't contradict
               | what I said about Lobsters moderation. This is just
               | another example of the tired message board trope of
               | blowing any complaint about anything into a blanket
               | condemnation. Nuance is boring to write, strident
               | declamation isn't. Unfortunately, for the reader, it's
               | the opposite.
        
         | lmm wrote:
         | HN versus Lobsters made me realise how important moderator
         | freedom/discretion is. Like in principle I'd rather be on the
         | site that had a moderator action log and clear rules about what
         | gets people banned, and I complain about the moderation here
         | plenty, but in practice I'll take the site that manages to ban
         | annoying users who stay on just the right side of any written
         | code.
        
       | hiq wrote:
       | Is there an equivalent of https://hckrnews.com/ (especially the
       | top 10 / top 20 filters) for lobste.rs? That's the main way I
       | browse HN, I wish I could do the same for lobste.rs. The closest
       | seems to be https://lobste.rs/top but it seems to only cover the
       | past week.
        
       | __rito__ wrote:
       | I never got an invite there, and hence stopped trying.
       | 
       | Don't know anyone IRL who is already there I guess.
        
         | Alifatisk wrote:
         | Same, I visit the site frequently but I don't now anybody to
         | get invited
        
       | yuppiepuppie wrote:
       | I was always liked the idea of the site, but never got an invite.
       | I lurk there occasionally when I see discussions around a topic
       | that I find interesting that didn't get traction on HN.
        
       | losvedir wrote:
       | I like lobsters. One of my main use cases is on my phone in the
       | middle of the night (while rocking my newborn), since it actually
       | has a legit dark mode, unlike HN, which blinds me and lights up
       | the room. I don't understand how HN doesn't...
        
         | Modified3019 wrote:
         | Darkreader is available for most browsers, desktop and mobile:
         | https://darkreader.org/blog/mobile/
        
         | mminer237 wrote:
         | Harmonic[0] has a dark mode.
         | 
         | [0]: https://github.com/SimonHalvdansson/Harmonic-HN
        
       | tonoto wrote:
       | How come that this is the first time (might have visited that
       | site several years ago, recognize the CSS in some way) that I
       | hear about lobster.rs? Is the site entirely by invitation or are
       | there at least a couple yearly signup openings?
        
       | kristianp wrote:
       | Now there's a thread on there pointing here:
       | https://lobste.rs/s/5vs9tv/lobsters_hacker_news
        
       | doe88 wrote:
       | Great site, especially for PL and security links, I read it for a
       | while now but never had the chance to know someone with an
       | account/invite.
        
         | pja wrote:
         | If you ask politely on the IRC & share a bit about who you are
         | it's fairly likely someone will send you an invite. No
         | guarantees though - the likelihood probably depends at least
         | partially on how long it's been since the last bunch of self-
         | promoting spammers set up their own little invite ring after
         | being invited in...
        
       | tkellogg wrote:
       | Here's the lobste.rs post about this post
       | https://lobste.rs/s/5vs9tv/lobsters_hacker_news
        
       | dalanmiller wrote:
       | It's not a ghost town. I really enjoy it for the quality of
       | discussion.
        
       | magicmicah85 wrote:
       | I like the discussions there but looking for an account so I can
       | post. Currently going through github issues and finding things I
       | can fix so someone rewards me.
        
         | aftbit wrote:
         | You seem like someone who can add to a discussion, and you like
         | SDR stuff too. Figure out how to contact me using the info in
         | my profile and I'll send you an invite.
        
       | h_o_o_t wrote:
       | Hello, this post actually made me make a post of my own.
       | 
       | I think you can have your cake and eat it here.
       | 
       | If you filter HN with uBlock Origin to remove topics and sources
       | you are not interested in, i.e. non-technical ones in my case,
       | probably the case for many others too, then you can create what
       | Lobsters was going for, but here on HN.
       | 
       | You get the fully populated, buoyant chat, whilst fine tuning the
       | scope of topics and sources you see.
       | 
       | I detailed the uBO rules here a moment ago:
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38510651
        
       | zlg_codes wrote:
       | Good site design, poor community culture.
       | 
       | Their design allows them to focus on 'acculturating' new users,
       | but does very little to spell out that culture or present
       | unambiguous guard rails.
       | 
       | There are some prominent posters whose personal projects get free
       | passes.
       | 
       | I don't feel like Lobsters is a community friendly to people on
       | the spectrum. They expect allistic members who all understand
       | socializing on an intuitive and instinctual level.
       | 
       | I've considered looking for an invite, but I don't think I'd be
       | well received and I don't care for being reprimanded by a
       | stranger over tone or 'unprofessionalism' when I see straight
       | trolling or passive aggression in comments.
       | 
       | The invite system is solid but I would change a few things to
       | turn it into a place I might have a chance of being welcome.
        
       | perrygeo wrote:
       | Has anyone looked at the correlation between HN top posts and
       | Lobsters? I would occasionally lurk on Lobsters until I realized
       | that the majority of content on L had already been posted on HN
       | first. Private community that's basically an echo chamber of
       | existing community's content... no thanks.
        
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       (page generated 2023-12-03 23:01 UTC)