[HN Gopher] 27% of New Cars in France Now Plugin Electric Cars
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       27% of New Cars in France Now Plugin Electric Cars
        
       Author : grammers
       Score  : 36 points
       Date   : 2023-11-29 18:51 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (cleantechnica.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (cleantechnica.com)
        
       | toomuchtodo wrote:
       | > In October, pure electrics once again outsold PHEVs -- 63%
       | share of the plugin market vs. 37% -- keeping the BEV share at
       | 64% vs. 36% PHEV in 2023. This represents a slight increase of 2%
       | of BEV share compared to the final 2022 result (64% vs. 62%).
       | Added to the also slight increase in plugin share, this could
       | mean that the French plugin market has reached the ceiling of
       | what current models can offer -- and new, cheaper EVs will be
       | needed to break it open further in order for the EV transition to
       | reach new heights.
        
       | dm319 wrote:
       | What are you people in France paying for electricity at the
       | moment?
        
         | JPLeRouzic wrote:
         | My provider is Engie, my cost per KWh was 0.248322148 Euros in
         | October.
        
           | instagib wrote:
           | This is when I thought I was paying 1/3 that then see the
           | rates increased to 1/2 and I have new fees that appeared or
           | increased.
           | 
           | USA average shows $0.23/kWh
           | 
           | https://www.energysage.com/local-data/electricity-cost/
        
             | barney54 wrote:
             | Electricity rates in the U.S. average 12 cents KWh
             | according to the Energy Information Administration.
             | https://www.eia.gov/electricity/state/
        
         | brianwawok wrote:
         | 105 EUR / MWh [0]
         | 
         | Google tells me 1 MWH = 105.26 liters of gas [1]
         | 
         | Math that out and it's basically 1 EUR per Liter of Gas
         | 
         | Gas seems at least 1.75 EUR / Liter, so a pretty good savings?
         | [2]
         | 
         | 0. https://tradingeconomics.com/france/electricity-price
         | 
         | 1.
         | https://hextobinary.com/unit/energy/from/gasoline/to/megawat...
         | 
         | 2. https://www.cargopedia.net/europe-fuel-prices
        
           | ttymck wrote:
           | Shouldn't the comparison use distance as the denominator?
        
           | Kirby64 wrote:
           | Converting between the electrical energy and the heat energy
           | intrinsic to gas is the wrong way to do that calculation. You
           | need to compare efficiency vs efficiency to get a proper
           | price comparison, as the heat energy of gasoline is much
           | higher than the actual energy used to move a vehicle. Most is
           | wasted.
           | 
           | A decently efficient EV is about 250Wh/mi (it's closer to
           | 220, but 250 makes math easy), so 105 EU of power can travel
           | approximately 4000mi.
           | 
           | By comparison a decently efficient ICE (in Europe) gets about
           | 5L/100km, roughly. So, to travel 6430km (4k miles) you'd need
           | about 320L of fuel. At 1.75EU/L that would cost 560 EU.
           | 
           | It's a very substantial difference, assuming your pricing is
           | correct on fuel and energy cost.
        
         | VeejayRampay wrote:
         | the short-term answer is "it's a bit expensive right now", the
         | long-term answer is "we mastered nuclear power a long time ago,
         | it's bound to become plentiful dirt cheap and plentiful again
         | eventually"
        
           | orangepurple wrote:
           | Looks like it was 15-50 in 2020
           | https://www.statista.com/statistics/1267546/france-
           | monthly-w...
           | 
           | What happened in 8/2021 that caused a huge spike?
        
             | mchem wrote:
             | From memory, we enjoyed a heatwave in Jul - August '21 in
             | UK/France.
             | 
             | Beyond demand pressures on the interconnected European
             | market due to secondary effects of the heat and the COVID
             | rebound, it's likely nuclear output was reduced as the
             | cooling potential of water sources was reduced - I vaguely
             | remember articles on this before the cracking issue stole
             | 'headlines'.
             | 
             | Reduced nuclear output in France results in increased
             | demand for less cost efficient national or more-expensive-
             | than-nuclear international (interconnected) generators.
        
         | BenoitP wrote:
         | About 110EUR/MWh, and also the government is planning the
         | nuclear reactors to produce around 70EUR/MWh from 2026 onwards.
        
           | s1artibartfast wrote:
           | Another painful reminder of how Californias are being screwed
           | on electricity prices, with double the US national average,
           | which itself is higher than 110EUR/MWh.
        
       | tibbydudeza wrote:
       | Rather surprised by the sales of the MG 4 , a Chinese make - they
       | bought the remains of MG Rover (MG=Morris Garage) when they went
       | bust in the UK.
       | 
       | It looks rather nice for a subcompact SUV - reminds me a Corolla
       | based Cross.
        
       | nottorp wrote:
       | I wonder. Isn't that because poor people can't buy even new cheap
       | cars these days?
       | 
       | So the share of electrics is there because only the rich early
       | adopters have bought a new car lately.
        
         | phero_cnstrcts wrote:
         | But but but! "If you buy electric cars you never have to worry
         | about gas prices ever again!"
        
           | tomcar288 wrote:
           | you joke now (because oil is dirt dirt cheap right now) but
           | just wait a few decades. I've listened to some of the most
           | knowledgable people in the oil industry (Art Berman and
           | others on Nate Hagens podcast) discuss Oil. And it looks like
           | Hubbard's curve at least on a worldwide basis is true and oil
           | supply is only going to go down in the long term. The peak is
           | much much closer than most people expect. The world is so
           | much more dependent on oil than it realizes and the impacts
           | will be far more profound than most economists currently
           | realize.
        
             | nottorp wrote:
             | In "a few decades" 99% of the new Teslas being sold today
             | will be in a scrap heap :)
             | 
             | The decision now is for 5-10-15 years.
        
           | nottorp wrote:
           | That's correct assuming you have to choose between buying two
           | equally priced cars, one electric and one combustion.
           | 
           | But the choice here may be between buying a new electric and
           | a used combustion that costs 1/4 of the price.
           | 
           | Or between buying a new electric and keeping the existing car
           | longer.
           | 
           | Pretty sure that over the next 10 years at least, the latter
           | two are the cheaper options.
        
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       (page generated 2023-11-29 23:02 UTC)