[HN Gopher] Apple makes up less than 5% of Arm's revenue, and Ar...
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       Apple makes up less than 5% of Arm's revenue, and Arm can't do
       anything about it
        
       Author : CharlesW
       Score  : 33 points
       Date   : 2023-11-29 16:41 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (9to5mac.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (9to5mac.com)
        
       | greatgib wrote:
       | This is not really true in my opinion. Arm could innovate and
       | create some additional IP that would be needed by Apple. I don't
       | think that Apple could have a contract forcing such a low fee for
       | everything they could be created by Arm.
        
         | dmitrygr wrote:
         | All ARM advancements since ARMv8 come _FROM_ apple. How do you
         | think it happens that anytime ARMv8.X is announced, apple
         | announces  "and our phones from 2 years ago and on support
         | ARMv8.X"?
         | 
         | Sources:
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31368681
         | 
         | https://web.archive.org/web/20210106015533/https://twitter.c...
        
           | clausecker wrote:
           | Evidently this does not apply to ARMv9/SVE, which Apple so
           | far eschews.
        
           | kvemkon wrote:
           | > All ARM advancements since ARMv8 come FROM apple.
           | 
           | This made me thinking Apple designed ARMv8 and gave it back
           | to ARM. But from your source:
           | 
           | > Apple contracted ARM to design a new ISA for its purposes.
        
         | acdha wrote:
         | That's theoretically true but very hard to pull off when
         | Apple's handily outperforming ARM's CPU design team. It's
         | unclear what they could build outside of the existing license
         | that would be compelling enough to garner a much greater
         | license share, especially since unless it was patentable Apple
         | would have an upper bound where they'd prefer to build their
         | own.
        
       | garyclarke27 wrote:
       | Apple has a special deal with Arm because they used to be in a
       | Joint Venture with Acorn
       | 
       | https://appleinsider.com/articles/23/09/05/apple-arm-have-be...
       | 
       | Apple invested $3 million to own 43% of the company. That
       | investment was specifically to fund the design and development of
       | the ARM processor for what would become the Apple Newton
       | MessagePad.
        
         | tibbydudeza wrote:
         | Was VSLI not also a partner since they fabbed the first ARM
         | ???.
         | 
         | There was a BBC series called "Micro Men" which covered the
         | development of ARM, Acorn and the BBC Micro.
        
         | russellbeattie wrote:
         | Didn't you read your own link? Jobs sold that 43% in the 90s
         | for $1.1 billion to keep Apple afloat at the time.
         | 
         | The reason that Apple doesn't pay much to ARM is because of the
         | long term "architectural license" that Jobs negotiated in the
         | 2000s well before it was clear that ARM would be the dominant
         | powerhouse in mobile devices. At the time, Intel was pushing a
         | low power version of their Atom chip, and Apple used that as
         | leverage to get a deal from ARM.
         | 
         | That type of license meant that Apple was in full control over
         | their implementation, meaning they don't rely on the rest of
         | ARM's IP like other licensees do. It doesn't use any Cortex
         | designs, for instance, or any thing else in the stack. This
         | means Apple uses less of ARM tech than any other licensee while
         | still remaining ARM compatible.
        
       | olliej wrote:
       | Why would we expect it to be significant? Apple is not the
       | largest deployer of ARM chips, and they don't use ARM's CPU
       | designs, only the ISA.
       | 
       | This is before we get to the whole "apple was a founding partner
       | of ARM and has a magic license" (though at this point I have no
       | idea what the actual ownership status is for this, I'm sure
       | someone else on HN can say :D)
        
       | vilunov wrote:
       | What does Apple buy from ARM? The right to use the instruction
       | set? Is it even eligible for licensing?
        
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       (page generated 2023-11-29 23:02 UTC)