[HN Gopher] Freetar - an alternative front end for ultimate-guit...
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       Freetar - an alternative front end for ultimate-guitar.com
        
       Author : kmille
       Score  : 337 points
       Date   : 2023-11-29 10:04 UTC (12 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (github.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (github.com)
        
       | cfr2023 wrote:
       | Needs more ads... jk... it's actually so good that I'm afraid it
       | will be killed.
        
       | user3939382 wrote:
       | This is great. The original has become pretty hostile to users
       | over the years, which is especially unacceptable since users have
       | contributed most of the content that defines the site.
        
       | cpursley wrote:
       | Much needed, UG has become unusable.
       | 
       | These days I'm a fan of Songsterr. Even handed them my credit
       | card - I love that you can play along with the actual tracks,
       | backing tracks (YouTube) or midi. I find myself learning more
       | songs than the UG way.
        
         | rockbruno wrote:
         | If you have Guitar Pro, you can download the gp files from
         | Songsterr and open them directly in GP. I like this because I
         | can then have the same features (apart from the Youtube bit)
         | with all of GP's added goodies.
        
           | shermantanktop wrote:
           | I love/hate Guitar Pro. It's indispensable but unstable.
        
       | namanyayg wrote:
       | This is absolutely awesome. I've been learning guitar since ~15
       | months now and I strongly dislike the ads and popups in all
       | (most?) of the guitar sites, and this is a perfect simple
       | interface that does the job and doesn't waste time. Great idea
       | and great execution.
        
         | namanyayg wrote:
         | PS @kmille I was missing sorting the table, so I took some code
         | off of SO and made a pull request. It isn't using jQuery so it
         | might break some code conventions you have, but I'll be glad to
         | have the sorting feature if you can merge and deploy the new
         | code! Again thanks for ideating and making this.
        
       | bartkappenburg wrote:
       | I'm a fan of chordify[0], much recommended!
       | 
       | [0] https://www.chordify.net
        
         | kitd wrote:
         | +1.
         | 
         | Also Chordie works for me too
         | 
         | https://www.chordie.com/
        
       | nelsonfigueroa wrote:
       | Ultimate Guitar has gotten worse over the years. I noticed
       | they're featuring TikTok-like videos on their home page now which
       | gave me a laugh. I switched to Songsterr a while back and it's
       | amazing. I highly recommend it for anyone looking for tabs.
        
         | tasty_freeze wrote:
         | Something UG added a couple (?) of years ago was support for
         | standard notation. Songster is strictly tabs. For me, that is a
         | deal breaker.
        
           | mksybr wrote:
           | Have you tried TuxGuitar?
        
       | adrianh wrote:
       | Shameless self-promotion for my site Soundslice:
       | https://www.soundslice.com/
       | 
       | Tabs plus sheet music, synced with original source recordings,
       | with the web's best learning/practice features.
       | 
       | Example: https://www.soundslice.com/slices/txqfc/
       | 
       | It's a "BYOM" (bring your own music) situation as opposed to a
       | library like Ultimate Guitar. But it's reasonably easy to import
       | stuff. You can import a Guitar Pro file from Ultimate Guitar,
       | Songsterr or wherever -- our MusicXML and GP importers are
       | excellent, seasoned by nearly a decade's worth of development and
       | edge cases.
       | 
       | We've also recently launched a PDF/photo scanner, using machine
       | learning to extract the musical semantics (in case you have some
       | music on paper or in PDF). https://www.soundslice.com/sheet-
       | music-scanner/
       | 
       | We've also got a full-featured notation/tab editor, and lots of
       | musicians use it for transcribing source recordings.
       | https://www.soundslice.com/transcribe/
       | 
       | Also relevant: we've never had ads, we've never taken funding and
       | we've been profitable for years. Sustainable, product-driven and
       | musician-first.
        
         | Haul4ss wrote:
         | I've seen this software used on a couple different video lesson
         | platforms (I am currently subscribed to Open Studio). It works
         | really well. Occasional browser funniness, but otherwise a
         | really solid tool for learning music. Great work!
        
         | Dudester230602 wrote:
         | That thing requires registration.
        
           | adrianh wrote:
           | Hi Dudester230602! Yeah, if you want to create your own music
           | in there, you'll need an account.
           | 
           | If you don't want to create an account, you can browse the
           | public stuff that's been posted:
           | https://www.soundslice.com/community/
           | 
           | We don't do any Instagram-like "Please register to continue
           | viewing this" nonsense.
        
       | timo-e-aus-e wrote:
       | Nice, love it.
        
       | patwolf wrote:
       | This is fantastic.
       | 
       | There must be some variation of Zawinski's Law that explains the
       | flaming dumpster that apps/sites like UG turn into. I feel like
       | MuseScore is going in that direction too.
       | 
       | I was hoping by now we would have solved the problem of a
       | decentralized repository of user-generated content without need
       | for monetization.
        
         | zozbot234 wrote:
         | > I was hoping by now we would have solved the problem of a
         | decentralized repository of user-generated content
         | 
         | IMSLP is monetized but far from terrible. The problem with
         | sites like UG and MS is that they're essentially hosting
         | bootleg content, which is only okay for as long as you can fly
         | under the radar. IMSLP is the wholly above-board approach.
        
         | amiga386 wrote:
         | The popular word these days is
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enshittification
        
       | vr46 wrote:
       | Oh hallelujah, I've got a lifetime sub due to buying their app
       | back in the day and was grandfathered in, so I can escape some of
       | the marketing, but their crazy, pants-on-head UI makes guitar
       | harder a lot of the time.
        
         | pknopf wrote:
         | I did the same! I'm so happy I did!
        
       | beowulfey wrote:
       | I've gone to ultimate-guitar since the early 2000s. Some of my
       | tabs are still on there. Visiting it today is a god-damn tragedy.
       | What a mess of a site. I'll definitely be trying this.
        
         | lhnz wrote:
         | Yes, it's very sad to see work you provided for free to a
         | community used to exploit these people.
        
         | gspencley wrote:
         | Same. I made many online friends on the forum and it used to be
         | my e-hangout in the early to mid 00s. I fondly remember the IRC
         | channel we used to hang out in. I think I have a tab or two
         | published on the site as well. Every time I pop back in for a
         | visit these past few years it always pushes me back away.
        
         | marricks wrote:
         | The only things from that era that didn't get outright worse
         | stayed the same (Craigslist).
         | 
         | What was beautiful about the internet then was there were so
         | many corners were monetization either wasn't easy or wasn't
         | chased so things could just exist.
         | 
         | Not so anymore!
        
           | FredPret wrote:
           | Sites need to monetize because how else will they pay for
           | Amazon ElasticLambda to serve their users' click X-Y
           | coordinates to T5 FireAnt, their distributed backend, on a
           | planetary scale?
        
           | whoisthemachine wrote:
           | You have forgotten Bonzi Buddy.
        
           | berniedurfee wrote:
           | Craigslist needs to be added to the list of national
           | historical sites and should _never ever_ be allowed to
           | change.
        
             | MSFT_Edging wrote:
             | They've made small, thought out changes over the years that
             | improved things. Small things like better gallery image
             | handling and some filtering.
             | 
             | As long as they maintain that pace, I'm fine with some
             | changes.
        
         | briankelly wrote:
         | Rest in peace, mxtabs.
         | 
         | I guess the upside to UG is that it encouraged me to learn by
         | ear.
        
       | hsuduebc2 wrote:
       | Love it. Thank you. Ultimate guitar is nothing just scamming
       | bullshit.
        
       | a1o wrote:
       | I wonder if someone can use this to slowly download everything to
       | have an offline archive - which then could be shared somewhere
       | else.
        
       | teabee89 wrote:
       | I cannot thank you enough. This was so needed! I'm gonna use it,
       | hoping it's not gonna get killed.
        
       | jampekka wrote:
       | Ooh, this is a godsend. UG is so full of dark patterns and nags
       | it's almost unusable. It's a travesty and whoever runs such scam
       | on community provided content should do some serious soul
       | searching.
       | 
       | Transposing chords doesn't seem to be implemented (or should the
       | plus/minus buttons do that)?
        
         | boringg wrote:
         | Right? It was such a great resource for such a long time and
         | then they just butchered it.
        
           | scop wrote:
           | I played a ton of guitar in high school and UG was my go-to
           | resource for a lot of stuff. I then stopped for a long time
           | due to career, marriage, kids, etc, only to pick up the ol'
           | axe again this year. I dutifully opened up UG and was
           | _shocked_ at how horrible it was. Ok fine, I'll download the
           | damn app you dirty bastards. Oh, you mean I'm still accosted
           | by all the dark patterns in the app too? I can only assume
           | any PII given to them is sold quickly and efficiently.
           | 
           | FWIW, I have really enjoyed seeing what old artists have put
           | out post-COVID. Seems like a big creativity boost. For
           | example, I really hadn't checked in on Joe Satriani in years.
           | Nothing in his work had stood out to me in a long time. His
           | 2022 "Elephants of Mars" though is just _excellent_. The
           | opening track has a guitar entry at about two minutes in that
           | you can't help but scrunch your face and bang your head to.
        
             | lghh wrote:
             | Literally the same experience as me. I had not been to UG
             | since I started my career as a dev. I now have _thoughts
             | and opinions_ about the internet. UG goes against basically
             | every single one of them.
             | 
             | I honestly don't understand why it ended up like that. Did
             | they really have that much trouble monetizing the largest
             | collection of community-made content for guitar playing?
             | Did YouTube eat their lunch in that regard? I imagine they
             | had editorial staff for the articles (going off my 12+ year
             | out of date memory), was that what was costing them so
             | much? I really have no clue.
        
             | LesZedCB wrote:
             | woah, me too! stopped during college and I decided to take
             | guitar serious this time and get some lessons which i
             | started in July. it's been a huge improvement and super
             | fun.
             | 
             | check out Plini and Intervals, some of my favorites in the
             | same vein as Satriani.
             | 
             | also, I've found guitar pro to really be worth it. Sheet
             | Happens publishes official tabs, and all their PDF tab
             | books come with guitar pro files as well and theyre pretty
             | good quality. Sheet Happens has a permanent guitar pro
             | discount code too.
        
               | entropicdrifter wrote:
               | FYI TuxGuitar is a FOSS player that can load/play/edit
               | PowerTab and GuitarPro files. Multiplatform too. It's not
               | completely 100% bug-free, but it's good enough to load
               | and play most tabs flawlessly.
               | 
               | Or for a more robust piece of software (especially if you
               | do tabbing/composing yourself or you want to
               | generate/edit a tab from a MIDI file), MuseScore is also
               | FOSS and can import GuitarPro files no problem. With its
               | recent UI overhauls it's really become top-notch IMO.
        
               | LesZedCB wrote:
               | i didn't realize musescore opened guitar pro 7/8 files
               | (which is what sheet happens publishes)! sadly tux guitar
               | support stopped at gp5. I will definitely be checking out
               | musescore, thanks for the rec!
        
         | mattgreenrocks wrote:
         | For whatever reason, UG's omnipresent video of a guy supposedly
         | playing the song of the currently viewed tab always grates me
         | more than it should. Probably because it's always an acoustic
         | regardless of song.
         | 
         | But also the fact it is pinned to a spot on the viewport and
         | always moving out of the corner of my eye.
        
         | Andoryuuta wrote:
         | UG is now owned by (Muse Group), which also owns MuseScore,
         | Audacity, StaffPad, etc.
         | 
         | They've had their fair share of controversy beyond just dark-
         | patterns on UG. From adding telemetry into Audacity[0], causing
         | a bunch of drama and multiple forks of Audacity, To (most
         | notably, in my opinion) having their director of strategy,
         | Daniel Ray, publicly threaten to report/have the Chinese
         | government whisk away the developer of a Github repo for a
         | MuseScore sheet music downloader[1]
         | 
         | [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27727150
         | 
         | [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27881539
        
       | scaglio wrote:
       | Just... Thank You! It's blazing fast, (even too) clean, and
       | without that mess that UG became in the last decade.
        
       | geocrasher wrote:
       | Oh wow. This reminds me a lot of the OLGA.net (On Line Guitar
       | Archive) back in the day before the Harry Fox Agency shut it
       | down. Thanks for this.
        
         | criddell wrote:
         | What changed? Why aren't publishers going after current music
         | sites?
        
       | FigurativeVoid wrote:
       | Two things:
       | 
       | 1. This is really excellent. I looked up some tab that I had
       | added to the site, and it does a great job presenting it. Most
       | importantly, it does it in a very printable format.
       | 
       | 2. If you a classical guitarist, or interested in classical
       | guitar, you should check out https://www.classtab.org/ which is a
       | gem of the internet.
        
         | pastinaaak wrote:
         | Also: https://www.delcamp.net/
        
       | CustomRanch_ wrote:
       | Thanks for building this! Bookmarked.
       | 
       | I notice that searching by artist can be inconsistent; for
       | example, if I want the song "Sinners Defeat" by Mors Principium
       | Est, I can find it if I search by title[1] but it doesn't appear
       | in results by artist[2], while on UG I get that song plus a few
       | more[3] (text tab only).
       | 
       | Very handy--the search is fast and looks like a search ought to
       | look. Nice work!
       | 
       | 1.
       | https://freetar.androidloves.me/search?search_term=sinners+d...
       | 
       | 2.
       | https://freetar.androidloves.me/search?search_term=mors+prin...
       | 
       | 3. https://www.ultimate-
       | guitar.com/search.php?title=mors+princi...
        
       | starstripe wrote:
       | I will be using this for sure. How did you get all their data?
       | API or did you scrape?
        
         | KomoD wrote:
         | Yeah, it's scraping.
         | 
         | See: https://github.com/kmille/freetar/blob/main/freetar/ug.py
        
       | symlinkk wrote:
       | This is just stealing content.
        
         | jquast wrote:
         | All of the content is provided by the community, if not
         | directly submitted, ripped from message boards, Usenet, and
         | other websites.
         | 
         | Please don't think that UG is paying anybody to transcribe (or
         | repair/moderate, desperately needed) the guitar tabs.
        
       | jonathrg wrote:
       | I feel like this has to be breaking the terms of service for the
       | site
        
         | alkonaut wrote:
         | It's community content and bandwidth can't be that big? can't
         | someone mirror the backend too?
        
           | meesles wrote:
           | It's community content however due to UG's monetization they
           | are subject to tablature licensing rules (hence why some
           | artists can't be found on there).
           | 
           | If you were to gain attention hosting their scale of tabs,
           | you would likely run into legal hurdles pretty quickly.
           | 
           | For example a full archive of most sites dating back to the
           | 90s already exists here:
           | https://tabarchive.mikethetech.com/index.php. However he does
           | not have permission to actually share it.
        
         | globular-toast wrote:
         | I hope you don't read this comment because that's breaking my
         | terms of service.
        
       | casperc wrote:
       | Love the return to text based chords/tabs (without all the other
       | crap on top). That is all that is needed really. This guitar/tab
       | space is ripe for disruption if you ask me.
        
       | MWParkerson wrote:
       | I bought a year of pro and returned it 24 hours later at a loss
       | (I had signed up using a non refundable promo code)
       | 
       | The app straight up doesn't work: playlists don't actually load
       | the next song when you expect, it takes way too long to load a
       | sheet, and then you have to navigate to "chords" on each song in
       | the playlist, which introduces MORE loading. They could save so
       | much time by not loading shit I straight up don't need. Oh, and
       | you can't manually sync songs for offline use, that's the cherry
       | on top, you are at the whim of their syncing schedule after you
       | favorite a song.
        
       | titzer wrote:
       | I hate what ultimate guitar has become. Before it evolved into
       | the current ad-laden, walled-garden rat trap that it is now, it
       | basically was just a _search engine_ for tabs. What amazes me is
       | that so many hobbyists made Guitar Pro tabs in their spare time
       | and uploaded them for free to the internet. Then UG came along
       | and indexed them. For a time, that was good. Now UG operates like
       | it owns that content. It 's been so heavily SEO'd that you
       | basically cannot search Google anymore without getting railroaded
       | there. You need to search elsewhere.
       | 
       | Their UI sucks. I resorted to hoarding the .gpX files locally and
       | using TuxGuitar. But TuxGuitar sucks too...
       | 
       | Regardless, thanks for doing this. This space could use some
       | disruption. I don't want to support a site that used to be a
       | simple search engine and mutated into a commercial walled-garden
       | that exploits the creative works of thousands of people who
       | originally did it for free. (oh wait...)
        
         | LesZedCB wrote:
         | hint, check out the history/revisions button at the top right
         | on songsterr
         | 
         | also, i just learned elsewhere on the thread that musescore is
         | FOSS and loads all formats of guitar pro files!
        
       | meesles wrote:
       | This is pretty nice, and there's already a lot of tools out
       | there. I've built some of my own tools to scrape their tabs and
       | store all my own stuff since I expect they will continue locking
       | tabs down more like they already have. I'm a lifetime UG pro
       | member but they keep pushing the envelope too far to monetize
       | more.
       | 
       | There's no path for OSS in this domain unfortunately because tabs
       | are often licensed and owned by the publishing companies (or the
       | artists at the very least). Oliver Tree is one dingbat who had
       | most of his tabs taken down at one point despite being a total of
       | 4 chords per song.
       | 
       | I'm pretty unhappy with the state of the space considering anyone
       | can listen to a song and write a tab out.
        
         | doublemint2203 wrote:
         | microeconomics man. the product is not optimized for you, it's
         | a tool to scrape $ out of ya.
         | 
         | I expect they're just gonna keep going till we're barely happy
         | with it, or a little under that.
        
         | immibis wrote:
         | There are spaces where free copies of licensed content are
         | widespread. Of course, I don't know anything about them, but
         | I'm sure they provide a valuable force against capitalism.
        
         | doakes wrote:
         | Artists and/or their publisher own all tabs made for their
         | song? How does that work?
        
           | duped wrote:
           | They don't own the tabs, they own the rights to publish
           | transcriptions of the music.
        
         | rozab wrote:
         | I suspect it would take a long while for an open source project
         | to run into this limitation, especially if the tabs were
         | distributed soulseek-style.
         | 
         | Has anyone attempted to make a fair use for education argument
         | about this? Tabs aren't so much an actual creative work as
         | instructions for how best to play a work. Because there's no
         | timing information it's often impossible to reconstruct the
         | actual music just from them.
         | 
         | Chords have even less information, a guitar chord transcription
         | may have no resemblance to the notes actually played in a
         | recording.
        
         | nyjah wrote:
         | Dang, that's a bummer to hear about Oliver Tree. Love his
         | schtick, never realized he was taking the music so seriously. I
         | always assumed it was intentionally simple to the point of
         | mockery.
        
       | jamesponddotco wrote:
       | This is awesome! So much cleaner and easier to navigate compared
       | to to UG, it isn't even funny. So much easier to navigate and
       | focus on what's important. Thanks for sharing!
       | 
       | I added it to my Awesome Privacy Front-ends[1] list, hope that's
       | okay!
       | 
       | [1] https://git.sr.ht/~jamesponddotco/awesome-privacy-front-ends
        
         | globular-toast wrote:
         | Why does Wikipedia need one? The alternative project doesn't
         | seem to explain this. (In fact, none of them do, but I can
         | probably guess what's bad about most of them if I don't already
         | know).
        
           | jamesponddotco wrote:
           | Among other things, it implements a whole new interface[1]
           | that removes the "nagging" from Wikipedia. It also removes
           | all tracking. The interface was a lot cleaner and was
           | completely JavaScript-free until a few months ago, which is
           | why I added it to the list.
           | 
           | While I personally don't mind the default Wikipedia website
           | and actually prefer it, I can see why some people would want
           | something more "modern".
           | 
           | [1] Which I dislike, but I digress.
        
       | ctenb wrote:
       | I made a similar web app a few years ago. I think it competes
       | quite well with this one. It has syntax highlighting :)
       | https://tabviewer.app/
        
         | certifiedloud wrote:
         | Love it. Is it open source? The only thing missing imo is a
         | chord viewer.
        
           | ctenb wrote:
           | Clicking the readme takes you to the repo
        
         | mdaniel wrote:
         | relevant: https://github.com/tablature-viewer/tablature-
         | viewer.github....
         | 
         | WRT the sibling comment, and your "click for the repo" comment,
         | unless we're now honoring the "license":"ISC" in package.json
         | as formally legal, there is no license in your repo
        
       | quickestpoint wrote:
       | Sssh... peaceful. Thanks!
        
       | ronyeh wrote:
       | If you can't avoid mobile, use an alternative browser with built
       | in blocking like Duck Duck Go or Firefox Focus or Brave. It works
       | great for me, since my phone can rest easily on my digital piano
       | sheet music stand.
       | 
       | Just avoid Chrome, since Google's business model is all about you
       | seeing the autoplay and full screen ads from UG.
        
       | LtWorf wrote:
       | I wrote a CLI for it:
       | https://codeberg.org/ltworf/ultimateultimateguitar
        
       | devin wrote:
       | I wonder if you could also add a way to show open and movable
       | fingerings for chords on hover?
        
       | skrebbel wrote:
       | Nitpick suggestion: Maybe link to Poetry for those of us not
       | deeply in Python land? It was non-trivial for me to figure out
       | that it's some sort of package manager for Python. It's also
       | totally un-googleable so that didn't help :-)
        
         | buildsjets wrote:
         | This right here. I was interested right up until I got to "You
         | need poetry.", at which point I closed the browser window. I
         | have plenty to do without trying track down some rando
         | developer's dependencies.
        
       | thebiglebrewski wrote:
       | Yesss awesome! UG's UI has just gotten progressively worse over
       | the years. It's one of those sites you wish had just paused at a
       | certain point and just stopped with what they had.
       | 
       | Their app is even more annoying.
        
       | javier_e06 wrote:
       | Ultimate guitar is my last resort because the bloat. I also go to
       | lacuerda.net but it forces me to enable cookies (not cool).
       | 
       | I am sure I am going to try Freetar.
        
       | 93po wrote:
       | I love this, I wish all websites looked like this. UG's website
       | is horrific flaming garbage. My only feedback is that I often
       | picked songs to play based on the most popular/trending tabs, and
       | I'd love to see that here too.
        
       | TomJansen wrote:
       | Hey! I made project like this, but I reverse engineered the API
       | from the Ultimate Guitar android application. I used BurpSuite
       | and Frida to look at all the HTTPS requests that the app made and
       | went on from there
        
         | InCityDreams wrote:
         | ....please tell us more!
        
       | mirkules wrote:
       | This is awesome. May I please make one request which would make
       | my life so easy - can you wrap the chords in square brackets?
       | Tools like MySongbook will highlight the chords that way
        
       | rzr wrote:
       | Something similar for piano learners would be welcome
        
       | nativeit wrote:
       | I remember OLGA, the On-Line Guitar Archive. In the 1990's when I
       | was learning to play guitar in my teens, OLGA hosted enough user-
       | generated text-based tabs for me to learn every song I'd ever
       | heard/wanted to play, for free.
        
         | KerrAvon wrote:
         | The core of UltimateGuitar is the content from OLGA, which is
         | why this particular enshittification is so ludicrous.
        
       | bfors wrote:
       | Wow, what a perfect website
        
       | jredwards wrote:
       | https://www.songsterr.com/ is an alternative site with a much
       | better UI
        
         | mfashby wrote:
         | It's still got nearly half the page covered in ads, on mobile.
        
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       (page generated 2023-11-29 23:01 UTC)