[HN Gopher] Writing documentation for your house
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Writing documentation for your house
        
       Author : lwhsiao
       Score  : 549 points
       Date   : 2023-11-28 11:12 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (luke.hsiao.dev)
 (TXT) w3m dump (luke.hsiao.dev)
        
       | pmags wrote:
       | The idea of writing technical documentation for your home seems
       | like excellent advise. I think many people do this in an informal
       | manner. I'm not sure a full blown mkdoc setup is necessary -- of
       | having your "home repair/maintenance" notes in their own
       | subfolder of an Obsidian vault or git repository might be
       | sufficient. In my own experience, having quick access to this
       | info has made troubleshooting easier a number of times recently
       | during some repairs and renovations.
        
         | akira2501 wrote:
         | Seems like the perfect territory for a wiki.
         | "Appliances/Furnace/Yearly Maintenance"
        
         | moduspol wrote:
         | I keep it in a Google Doc that I print out and have visible on
         | the kitchen counter when I go to sell.
         | 
         | Even putting aside the practical value it could provide to the
         | new homeowner, it shows the house has been well-maintained to
         | the potential buyer. It also conveys that there are likely
         | fewer "unknowns" about the house because it implies nothing is
         | being hidden.
        
       | blakesterz wrote:
       | I've been attempting to do something like this, but realized
       | quite quickly many things need a video. e.g. Writing out how to
       | change the furnace filter just made no sense (the layout of the
       | furnace makes it really tricky) but a 1 minute video just did the
       | trick.
       | 
       | I like the structure laid out here, gives me a good idea on how
       | to start on something that would work for me.
        
         | zmmmmm wrote:
         | It's the sort of thing I imagine products like the Meta Ray Ban
         | glasses might be good for. Any time you start doing one of
         | those annoying complex maintenance tasks that you forget how to
         | do every time (the other night for me it was dismantling the
         | toilet cistern since it blocks once every couple of years ...),
         | you just click the glasses on and next time you can watch back
         | what you did the first time.
        
         | grepfru_it wrote:
         | I like this idea even more!
        
       | davesmylie wrote:
       | I have a gmail account that I cc stuff to - receipts for any
       | major chattels or work, engineering reports, wall cavities before
       | lining (showing cable runs and nog spacing etc).
       | 
       | Probably not as usable as this system, but pretty low effort and
       | able to be passed on to the next owner easily if/when we move
        
         | yodon wrote:
         | Make sure you log in occasionally, or Google will delete the
         | account due to inactivity.
        
       | justinlloyd wrote:
       | I own an RV. The RV came with two thick manuals, one for the RV
       | chassis, and one for all of the appliances that were factory
       | installed. I am not the first owner of the RV. My brother, a
       | meticulous military man kept the documentation for every
       | appliance and gadget he installed in that RV.
       | 
       | And since I took ownership of it, and have I been ever grateful
       | that he documented it, I have done the same too, for the WiFi,
       | for the networking, for the tool shed, for sit-to-stand desks,
       | for the oven, for the plubming, and so forth.
       | 
       | And I've applied the same rigorous principle to the house now as
       | well for about the past three years. I kept documentation prior,
       | but nothing so deep until the RV came along.
       | 
       | Two thick ring binders, one for the house "chassis" and one for
       | the appliances in the house.
       | 
       | Instructions on how to reset the internet, instructions on how to
       | "reboot" the water heater, instructions on how to change the AC
       | filters, the model numbers required for the filters, and why
       | there is no "air return" vents on the AC for the next owner, and
       | also as a reminder to myself. Documentation on the maintenance of
       | having the black water lines replaced after one of them
       | collapsed, how to access the clean out hatch on the black water
       | lines. Where wires in the walls are run too. The circuit breakers
       | are each carefully labelled too. It gets written up in OneNote so
       | it is searchable, and then it gets put in to the three-ring
       | binder, with sections for each area, e.g. garage, master bedroom,
       | kitchen, etc. And lots of paint codes for each individual wall.
       | 
       | It doesn't take long if you do it step-by-step rather than try to
       | boil the ocean all at once, and you will be grateful you did it
       | for years to come. And your home, unlike the software developed
       | by your team, doesn't tend to change all that fast.
        
         | supportengineer wrote:
         | Business idea - House Documentation as-a-service.
         | 
         | You fill in the blanks online and it generates the PDF for you.
        
           | djbusby wrote:
           | I was just working on that w/a friend. Great minds and all
           | that.
        
             | thangalin wrote:
             | KeenWrite[1], my Markdown text editor, was written with
             | variables in mind. I've made a "theme" for the
             | documentation for my house, called Domus.[2] You could get
             | something producing PDFs in an evening.
             | 
             | Profile has my email.
             | 
             | [1]: https://keenwrite.com
             | 
             | [2]: https://gitlab.com/DaveJarvis/keenwrite-
             | themes/-/tree/main/d...
        
               | djbusby wrote:
               | Domus is our code-name too. LMAO
        
           | CountGeek wrote:
           | There's this https://github.com/hay-kot/home box "inventory
           | and organization system built for the Home User"
        
           | m463 wrote:
           | Only later it has unskippable ads for replacement furnace
           | filters, for water filtration, for solar systems, for
           | appliance upgrades, ...
        
           | justinlloyd wrote:
           | It'll be a cold day in Hell before I put that much
           | information into a venture-backed SaaS that is driven by the
           | desire to monetize my life by any means necessary. It also
           | over complicates what is a simple requirement by throwing
           | unnecessary technology at the problem. The only tech I need
           | with my three ringer binder solution to figure out how to
           | restart a furnish when the power and internet are out across
           | the county on a freezing winter night is a flashlight.
        
         | zie wrote:
         | I do this in a Fossil(fossil-scm.org) repository. I just take
         | pictures and make PDF's of the manuals I get on paper.
         | 
         | It's awesome.
        
       | duck wrote:
       | The house we live in now came with a paper version of this from
       | the original owner/builder (along with almost a "dream" book
       | section of where they got some of the ideas from). It was super
       | helpful to have blueprints and things like paint codes, although
       | the last owner had changed a couple rooms and didn't update it.
       | The last owner did add some details on some plants they put in,
       | which has been really valuable as well. My favorite part has been
       | having receipts for lots of little custom things they added.
        
       | justinzollars wrote:
       | This is great advice. I have a ton of documents with the home I
       | bought, but I can't seem to find when the roof was replaced. It
       | took me months to discover I had a sprinkler system and I was
       | amazed when I figured out how to use it. Something like this
       | would be very convenient.
        
       | xnx wrote:
       | This is extremely organized and admirable. Don't let the perfect
       | be the enemy of the good. A hand scribbled note taped to the
       | appliance or somewhere logical nearby beats no documentation at
       | all.
        
         | m463 wrote:
         | there is high-tech there too. They have cool postit notes now:
         | super-sticky; super-sticky full stick (entire note is sticky)
         | and now postit extreme notes that you can stick to lumber or
         | man-projects or something.
        
       | mhb wrote:
       | And for running the house - Jeffery Epstein's Household Manual:
       | 
       | https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/21128538-gx-606
        
         | xpe wrote:
         | Yikes. Well played.
        
         | quickthrower2 wrote:
         | Sinister source aside... that is very detailed, 1980s vibe, but
         | dated 2005. Talks about telephone directories, and picking up
         | the phone in 3 rings.
        
       | grepfru_it wrote:
       | I do this for my rental property. I have a complete guide from
       | onboarding to offboarding tenants. Process guides for 6 month
       | checkups, instruction guides on how to use the alarm system,
       | changing locks and codes, dimensions of all appliance cubbies etc
       | etc etc
       | 
       | My wife wants nothing to do with the rental aspect but when she
       | had to handle management for a few weeks she couldn't stop
       | gushing over my OneNote administrative guide.
        
         | gooseyman wrote:
         | This is awesome. Have you ever considered publishing these?
        
         | teeray wrote:
         | Similar, but I also have a QRH[0] for disasters small and
         | large: Floods, freeze-ups, fuel exhaustion, electrical failure,
         | telecom failures, septic emergencies all the way down to
         | missing tv remotes (there's a stack of spares and exact
         | instructions to program it for specific TVs).
         | 
         | The idea is that I can literally give anyone acting on my
         | behalf access to the utility room, they grab the binder on the
         | wall and mitigate the issue exactly.
         | 
         | [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quick_Reference_Handbook
        
       | efitz wrote:
       | For my last house, I had spent years on smart home automation, I
       | had a binder that contained clear instructions I wrote for
       | everything, and receipts for every upgrade I ever made on the
       | home, warranty docs, QR codes to download smart home apps to
       | control the devices, plot maps, floor plans, a 1-page list of
       | repairmen for everything- you name it. I made short YouTube
       | videos for everything like turning the water on/off, hose bib and
       | sprinkler shutoffs, device pairing, etc. I put dozens of hours
       | into documenting my home, and felt a sense of accomplishment that
       | I was doing a "warm handoff" of the home.
       | 
       | The new owner sold the home after two years. From the listing
       | photos she had ripped out most of the smart home stuff and had
       | crappily remodeled (painting river stone hearth, etc). YouTube
       | showed zero hits on it he videos I made. I sincerely doubt that
       | she even bothered to look at the binder I handed over.
       | 
       | I will never put that amount of effort into documenting a home
       | again. I know what I've done and I keep just enough docs around
       | for my own purposes.
        
         | waveBidder wrote:
         | nothing productive to add, but man that sucks.
        
         | abraae wrote:
         | I have a home-built system for monitoring the levels in our
         | water tanks (we live on rain water).
         | 
         | Of course some people get by with a simple float indicator, but
         | why would I do that when I could be using high accuracy
         | hydrostatic sensors, esp32, influxdb, grafana, spring, keycloak
         | and mysql running in AWS?
         | 
         | I certainly wouldn't want to be getting support calls if we
         | were to ever sell, so I would probably remove it myself if that
         | happened.
        
           | edrxty wrote:
           | Why would you use AWS for that? That seems like an extremely
           | strange external dependency for a house running on rainwater.
        
             | Sakos wrote:
             | Because they can, I guess? There can be fun had in over-
             | engineering personal projects. It can also be educational.
             | It's no more odd than
             | 
             | > grafana, spring, keycloak
        
               | grogenaut wrote:
               | Seeing a setup like this would cause me to start walking
               | away from a house. But to be fair I'd be walking away
               | from just about any smart setup.
        
             | abraae wrote:
             | Just for history. Current values are available without
             | internet on the esp32.
        
               | SpaghettiCthulu wrote:
               | why not use a local server, even just an RPi?
        
               | j45 wrote:
               | Sometimes the library pushes easier to a cloud.
               | 
               | Managing storage and more can still be work and worth
               | doing as a second step since most of the time it's worth
               | doing the setup over at least one more time.
        
               | abraae wrote:
               | Mainly visions/delusions of a water monitoring SaaS, but
               | it would probably run just fine on a pi
        
             | camel_gopher wrote:
             | I did something similar but with a small netgate box.
        
           | bigiain wrote:
           | Nah, sell them a monthly subscription for the cloud service.
           | Or put ads in their dashboard and alerts. (Or both. Then work
           | out how to sell their water usage data to 700 "partner" 3rd
           | parties...)
        
             | arcanemachiner wrote:
             | Then go out of business and leave them with an expensive
             | paperweight.
        
         | c22 wrote:
         | The last time I bought a house I paid about $600 for a pre-
         | purchase inspection and the inspector basically prepared such a
         | binder for me. A few hundred pages of photos and suggested
         | fixes for not only all the defects she found, but also
         | suggested ongoing maintenance schedules and routines for all
         | the systems of the house, photos of the water shutoff, etc. and
         | even a thumb drive with a few videos she shot and a sewer
         | scope. I was updating the binder as I added/changed stuff but
         | ultimately figured it's probably easier to just a hire another
         | inspection when it's time to sell. There were no smart devices,
         | though, that may have added a premium.
        
           | 20after4 wrote:
           | That sounds like $600 well spent. My pre-purchase inspection
           | didn't even uncover some fairly obvious unsafe wiring.
        
             | Cthulhu_ wrote:
             | Mine was a fifteen minute jobby where the guy glanced down
             | the crawlspace and took a picture of the (flat) roof with a
             | selfie stick. Basically a box ticking exercise for getting
             | a mortgage. That said, it was a fairly new house (late
             | 2000's) and not lived in much due to the owner finding a
             | new partner pretty quickly and living there mosts of the
             | time.
        
           | hnick wrote:
           | I've already lived in my home for a decade and think that
           | would be money well spent. There are probably time bombs
           | coming due I don't know about.
        
           | Wistar wrote:
           | A few years ago, I wrote the following comment in another
           | thread here on HN. It is germane to this thread:
           | 
           | Back in the early 90s -- on a recommendation from a realtor
           | who was a close friend of my brother's -- I hired an
           | inspector who was close to retirement. He worked with his
           | wife who served as his assistant tasked with, in essence,
           | taking dictation of her husband's near constant commentary as
           | he conducted an incredibly thorough inspection. Every outlet
           | tested for proper ground, every nook and cranny looked at,
           | wood moisture content, HVAC pitot readings, masonry, roof ...
           | just a super-duper detailed inspection that took about 6
           | hours to complete.
           | 
           | At the end of the inspection, he summed up by saying the
           | house was good and that he had no qualms recommending the
           | house.
           | 
           | Two days later, he stopped by with a three-ring binder that
           | contained his inspection report. It first contained a summary
           | that concisely covered the positive and few negative aspects
           | of the house. Then there was a section about the history of
           | the house: the year built, the name of the builder, changes
           | in the neighborhood since it had been built, earthquakes it
           | had gone through, flood events in the area, and so on. It
           | also included the manufacturer names of things such as the
           | windows, door hardware, etc.
           | 
           | The third section was lengthy, covering the precise state of
           | the electrical, plumbing, structural, envelope, etc, and
           | included all the notes his wife had taken during the course
           | of the inspection. It included a sub-section with warnings
           | about certain materials that likely contained asbestos and
           | would need to be dealt with if we ever did remodeling.
           | 
           | Finally, the largest section was what he called a
           | "maintenance work order" arranged as a schedule for the
           | ongoing, recurring upkeep of the house but beginning with
           | things he thought needed to be done immediately, replacement
           | of the circuit breaker box, splash blocks under each outdoor
           | faucet, tuck-pointing some of the chimney's brickwork, etc.
           | And then his estimates as to when he thought systems might
           | need to be replaced, the water heater, furnace, roofing, etc.
           | As I discovered when the water heater burst, his estimates
           | were pretty much spot-on. Over time, I added notes as we
           | upgraded things, added low-voltage wiring, and remodeled the
           | basement.
           | 
           | Nine years later, when I sold the house, the buyer was elated
           | to have this owner's manual and I am fairly certain that the
           | book was key to a very fast sale of the house which we did
           | without a realtor.
           | 
           | As I look back on it now, I realize that inspection was
           | perhaps the best $350 I have ever spent.
           | 
           | When we bought our next house, the inspection took about an
           | hour and produced a few page report, most of it boilerplate.
        
             | bowmessage wrote:
             | Sounds like you found a good one.
             | 
             | Though I wonder why they didn't recommend preventative
             | maintenance on the water heater- if it was electric, why
             | not replace the sacrificial anode?
        
               | sokoloff wrote:
               | After some length of time, there's a reasonable
               | likelihood that the anode rod has corroded to the
               | threaded boss and attempting to replace will condemn the
               | water heater. (If you're not DIY, it's also a $200+ trip
               | charge and a $75 marked-up part.)
               | 
               | When we bought this place, the water heater was old and I
               | decided it was a better plan to just leave it alone and
               | replace when it leaked. (There was nothing valuable on
               | the mechanical room floor.) A year later, we had a new
               | heater and 15 years after that, it's about due again.
               | 
               | I can definitely understand the "do nothing" approach,
               | particularly if the rod is 10+ years in situ.
        
               | tivert wrote:
               | > Though I wonder why they didn't recommend preventative
               | maintenance on the water heater- if it was electric, why
               | not replace the sacrificial anode?
               | 
               | I tried to do that on my old water heater, and it's
               | probably good I gave up. I couldn't get that nut to budge
               | (even after buying some pipe to make a long breaker bar),
               | and I think there's was a good chance I might have
               | wreaked it if I did.
               | 
               | The thing was small, and we eventually just replaced it
               | with a larger one that has the benefit of being new with
               | a much more reliable control unit.
        
             | bombcar wrote:
             | You got a good inspector. Most give you a binder that's
             | mostly boilerplate legalese how the inspector does nothing,
             | a few photos, and a list of very obvious defects that
             | usually aren't much.
        
         | AtlasBarfed wrote:
         | To be fair, smart homes absolutely suck. Especially about four
         | or five years removed, or, in this case, an owner change.
         | 
         | This is like writing code vs figuring out someone else's code.
         | Those are totally different things, and code is a bunch of
         | readily accessible text files. Smart homes? Some device in the
         | attic, some device in the basement, some wiring that goes who
         | knows where, where does all this info go? What was the model of
         | this shit? Oh it has NOTHING on the front because serial
         | numbers are gauche.
        
           | grogenaut wrote:
           | I have trouble finding the right code for my hardware
           | projects and I check things into github including schematics,
           | gerbers and code. then come back 3 years later and realize
           | yeah I forgot to push that last actual commit. now I imagine
           | someone else debugging that.
        
           | j45 wrote:
           | There really is starting to be a case for more remote control
           | only smart home automation .. and then learning to handle
           | those remote commands.
           | 
           | Leaves what people are familiar with and trust in place.
        
           | darkwater wrote:
           | I have a (mostly) DYI smart-home, I mean, DYI as in "a
           | Frankenstein of vendors and devices glued together by Zigbee,
           | MQTT and Home Assistant", with some hard-deps on it in a
           | couple of rooms and that gave me some bad nights when
           | thinking about "what if I sell the home one day?" but reading
           | the threads here I feel reassured: they will probably just
           | rip it away and put some low-tech solution and call it a day.
        
             | walteweiss wrote:
             | Is it possible to rip off the devices and use it at your
             | new location?
        
               | bombcar wrote:
               | By the time you sell they're likely all scrap value or
               | worse, and the time to remove would be more than the cost
               | to buy new.
        
           | chimprich wrote:
           | > What was the model of this shit? Oh it has NOTHING on the
           | front because serial numbers are gauche.
           | 
           | I'd really like some kind of standard for model IDs. Maybe
           | something like a domain name and a model number.
           | 
           | It would also be good if devices came with a QR code printed
           | on them that linked to the manual.
        
             | bombcar wrote:
             | If it has an FCC ID you can search in that. Can be hard to
             | find.
        
               | AtlasBarfed wrote:
               | But ... you might have to tear open a wall. Climb a
               | ladder. Unscrew a plate cover and hope you can see it. Oh
               | crap, now you have to remove it from the wall. Might as
               | well tear out everything.
               | 
               | And this is on the hardware side. Software? Did the
               | former owner have passwords and everything tied to HIS
               | ACCOUNT? Does he hand over some account? What personal
               | info is in that former account. NOPE, big nope.
               | 
               | The problem with smart home is this:
               | 
               | - if the company wants to make money on the software, it
               | will go with lock-in or fake open, which is what it is
               | today. And that is a miserable failure
               | 
               | - if the company wants to make money on the hardware, the
               | software is a cost so it sucks.
               | 
               | The solution is PROBABLY that the hardware vendors can
               | only implement protocols, but CANNOT implement
               | middleware. It can basically only provide information and
               | take commands.
               | 
               | The a software company makes the hub. It cannot have any
               | interest in any particular devices, it cannot "partner"
               | with a hardware firm.
               | 
               | But of course that's only one part of the problem, with
               | security and the central account. The software hub would
               | need to provide some way to "move" an account with
               | transparency on historical data reset.
               | 
               | But the industry is so effing far from this. Maybe
               | SmartThings was close, but they got acquired by Samsung
               | and now push Samsung products and basically discontinued
               | everything pre-Samsung. They highlight that there's no
               | good money in pure middleware.
               | 
               | The device vendors have to come together and do some sort
               | of independent software company that they all can't
               | meddle in. But then there's still soft pressure to only
               | support devices in the "in group", so that still doesn't
               | work.
               | 
               | Really, this is an operating system + driver problem. The
               | central core is the OS, and the devices are "drivers". A
               | consumer OS can be priced at about $50 tops, and it needs
               | about 10 million people a year buying it. THen it gets
               | the critical mass.
               | 
               | The other option is that some group close to the core of
               | Linux take this on as the next big project. This could
               | have important implications for Linux desktop, because it
               | would create a Linux-aligned group that all the device
               | manufacturers have to prioritize, and that provides the
               | outreach to them also supporting device drivers for the
               | Linux OS.
               | 
               | I mean, that is a BIG undertaking. It would take someone
               | like Torvalds with talent, hard work, and some form of
               | charisma (not necessarily Torvalds' brand)
        
         | natmaka wrote:
         | For a fair part of the population, especially those using at
         | home a crappy PC crashing twice a week, 'smart home stuff'
         | means that some bug or backdoor may lead them into a mess: lock
         | them out, let an intruder in, over/under-heat for weeks while
         | they are out of town... They don't want any part of this.
        
           | xyzzy123 wrote:
           | I don't think I could bring myself to extensive home
           | automation installed by a previous owner, especially if there
           | are cameras in the system. I have no way to know they're not
           | maintaining access somehow without re-installing / re-
           | flashing everything and linking to "fresh" cloud accounts.
        
             | phero_cnstrcts wrote:
             | Or sensors that register if you're home or not.
             | 
             | They could even install something that isn't necessarily
             | connected to the internet but can be remotely accessed from
             | nearby.
        
           | Gigachad wrote:
           | If I bought a house that had a bunch of IoT junk, my first
           | step would be to rip it all out.
        
             | j45 wrote:
             | Agreed.
             | 
             | At the same time any home automation needs to be able to be
             | cloud and vendor independent.
             | 
             | It begins with registering the property an independent
             | email address for any accounts used during setups before
             | taking them offline. Easy to manage for future tenant or
             | sale.
             | 
             | Gear is more able to be cloud independent or be made cloud
             | independent, leaving a greater chance to leave at most a
             | local wifi network and local appliance with touch screen
             | (pi) that can peacefully operate without the internet,
             | plugged in and hung on a wall like any other appliance in a
             | mechanical room of the home.
             | 
             | The more off the shelf parts can be, the greater the chance
             | of it surviving.
        
               | jakupovic wrote:
               | You have a wishlist not something that you can buy.
               | What's available now is a mix of random open and closed
               | source hardware and software that requires a lot of time
               | and HA to tie it all together
        
               | j45 wrote:
               | I don't disagree.
               | 
               | With each iteration and replacement I'm discovering
               | there's more out there.
               | 
               | For example instead of using a random computer or pi,
               | installing a home assistant yellow presents to a future
               | home owner as more of an appliance.
               | 
               | https://www.home-assistant.io/yellow/
               | 
               | This is a nice gateway for non technical but "I can find
               | someone to help me with this system".
               | 
               | Same goes for particular groups of hardware.
               | 
               | You're night it's a mix but the fact you can run most
               | things on one platform fairly easily is pretty useful.
        
             | bombcar wrote:
             | Exactly. What little smart home stuff I have that is still
             | operating smartly will be ripped out when I sell, or just
             | left to rot.
             | 
             | It definitely changes my decisions on further purchases. No
             | smart switches that don't revert to being dumb if the smart
             | stuff fails (as it always does).
        
           | pjerem wrote:
           | Even as a tech-savvy person,'smart home stuff' does totally
           | means bugs and backdoors everywhere if you just plug and play
           | things.
           | 
           | Of course there are available possibilities to take somehow
           | full control of your automation with some Home Assistant or
           | the likes but honestly, it's really not that easy if you are
           | not already a tinkerer.
           | 
           | Great automation will also require more work and knowledge.
           | As soon as you start playing with heating or venting, you are
           | doing work that could require some background. It's something
           | to buy a nice smart thermostat, but it's something else to
           | understand where you may place it, how you may program it ...
           | 
           | It's an interesting topic for those who like to tinker, but
           | it's very understandable that most people aren't going to
           | invest their time on it.
        
         | mhh__ wrote:
         | Some people just aren't the type.
        
         | mikepurvis wrote:
         | The only thing I was handing over when I sold my last house was
         | a Nest and a few Hue lights. The Nest was easy to factory
         | reset, and the Hue stuff was operational without being plugged
         | into a router, so hopefully they were able to continue with it
         | as it was, and get it linked up to the phone app if and when
         | they cared to do so.
        
         | Nzen wrote:
         | While I sympathize with your position, it is entirely possible
         | that a person inheriting the smart home might benefit. I'm
         | reminded of wmsmith's anecdote [0] two months ago about a smart
         | home de-ghosting of a widow who couldn't drive the smart
         | homing.
         | 
         | [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37860529
        
           | erhaetherth wrote:
           | The good news with smart bulbs is that they're easy to
           | unsmart. Just unscrew them and put your dumb bulb back in.
           | 
           | I replaced almost all my bulbs with smart bulbs, and then got
           | annoyed having to ask Google to turn on the lights all the
           | time. My solution? Even more technology of course. I found
           | these little buttons that fit neatly over my existing
           | switches so it not only keeps the switch in the correct
           | position but makes it just as easy to turn off/on as before.
           | But now they're dimmable and remotely controllable which is a
           | plus in my books. Also my apartment is dumb and barely has a
           | single built-in light so it's just lamps everywhere; without
           | smart bulbs I'd probably have to flick a million switches or
           | lamp-ropes.
        
             | petemir wrote:
             | Could you share a link to your found solution? Thanks!
        
         | StingyJelly wrote:
         | Smart home automation isn't for everyone. Many relatives see it
         | as that weird hobby I have and don't see much of the value.
         | (And I agree given the time I spend tinkering.) Even I would
         | likely rip out most of the inherited smart home stuff in order
         | to replace it or at least flash opensource firmware on it.
         | Another important point I learned is that everything should
         | work as a dumb home when the wifi, gateways, HomeAssisant or
         | some sensors are down.
        
         | ozim wrote:
         | Home automation is for me exactly the same as designer kitchen
         | or designer day room.
         | 
         | Yeah it was great for the previous owner but it sucks for me as
         | I have different tastes and needs.
         | 
         | I am going to rip it all off and do what I want.
         | 
         | But in reality I just don't buy anything that is advertised
         | "one of a kind" because I know it will be more of a hassle to
         | deal with it even if it looks cool.
         | 
         | For me cool looking fancy stuff does not add value but rather
         | lowers the value because I know I will have to rip it all of
         | which is just more work. I also rather buy apartment/home with
         | some default IKEA kitchen because I know then it will be super
         | easy to rip it out and replace with what I want. Where most of
         | the time I think I would just stick with that default IKEA
         | depending on how long I plan to own the place.
        
           | subpixel wrote:
           | Home automation is a mystery to me. I have a coffee maker I
           | can program to turn on in the morning, some ring cams for
           | deterrence, and an automatic thermostat. I feel like
           | everything else is overkill.
           | 
           | Also starting and maintaining a fire in the wood stove is
           | something I enjoy.
        
             | philjohn wrote:
             | It is and it isn't. It's definitely on the "you don't need
             | it" side of the scale, but if done thoughtfully it can make
             | everyday life just a bit easier.
             | 
             | Some of my favourite automations:
             | 
             | 1. Whenever someone arrives home and it's started to get
             | dark outside, automatically turn the hallway lights on if
             | they're off 2. When turning off the TV in the lounge, and
             | it's dark outside, and the lights are dimmed, bring them up
             | to 100% warm white so you can see where you're going 3.
             | Motion sensors in the hallway and landing to turn the
             | lights on when they detect motion at night.
             | 
             | Do I NEED any of these? Of course not. But I like having
             | them.
        
               | ozim wrote:
               | Talking about preferences I hate motion sensor lights I
               | usually rather to walk in dark and get my eyes used to
               | darkness. I still turn on lights when I get to bathroom
               | or I get a glass of water in the end but somehow it feels
               | better if I turn it on at the destination.
               | 
               | Other thing is I hade all kinds of status LEDs - it is
               | just insane with the bright ones. I know it is nice for
               | quick troubleshooting during the day to know if the
               | internet is on or not - but in the middle of the night
               | they should be lowest brightness on all appliances or
               | turned off. But not all vendors provide the option.
        
               | njarboe wrote:
               | I use electrical tape to tape over bright LEDs,
               | especially ones in the bedroom. The light generally will
               | still be visible and you can add layers to get the
               | brightness you desire. The tape also comes in many colors
               | so you can match the device you are fixing.
        
               | tivert wrote:
               | > Talking about preferences I hate motion sensor lights I
               | usually rather to walk in dark and get my eyes used to
               | darkness. I still turn on lights when I get to bathroom
               | or I get a glass of water in the end but somehow it feels
               | better if I turn it on at the destination.
               | 
               | I agree, it'd be super annoying if it turned the lights
               | on full power. I had a motion sensor light in my old
               | apartment. It was part of a Hue system and it would turn
               | on a single bulb in the hall or bathroom (can't remember
               | which) to the very lowest dimness level if someone was
               | walking to the bathroom at night.
        
             | eddieroger wrote:
             | Big use cases can be overkill, but I like to take on the
             | small things as automation projects. Easy one - if everyone
             | has left my house for a time, turn off all the lights. If
             | we have left but the dog is home and the sun sets, turn on
             | a few lights for her (my dog has a wifi collar). If I
             | arrive home after dark and open the garage door, turn on
             | the mudroom lights so I don't walk in to a dark house, then
             | turn it back off 10 minutes later when I forget. I've left
             | town before and had to let my parents in my house, and it
             | was nice to be able to let them in without a key, and see
             | that it was them on a camera. Then there are the fun ones,
             | like setting the lights or closing blinds when I start a
             | movie.
             | 
             | I'm glad you enjoy maintaining a wood stove. I like asking
             | my house to turn things on and off when my hands are full,
             | or automating my bad habits and forgetfulness away.
        
               | robertlagrant wrote:
               | Or if you're on holiday - turn the lights on at certain
               | points.
               | 
               | For top marks, have a train set with cardboard cutouts on
               | and party music playing loudly every evening.
        
             | notahacker wrote:
             | > Also starting and maintaining a fire in the wood stove is
             | something I enjoy
             | 
             | Funny that, I'm sitting on my boat and it's soooo pretty,
             | but one thing I _really_ won 't miss about moving off it is
             | maintaining the fire in the stove. And especially the
             | temperature when it burns out or dies out...
        
               | subpixel wrote:
               | Everything is more fun when it is opt-in
        
             | caseysoftware wrote:
             | > _Also starting and maintaining a fire in the wood stove
             | is something I enjoy._
             | 
             | Yes, definitely. There's something satisfying about it.
             | 
             | I've spent the last few weeks splitting logs - some by
             | hand, most with a hydraulic splitter - and it's been so
             | peaceful and good having fires on the back deck the last
             | few weeks. It's not super cold here (Texas) but just chilly
             | enough to make it fun.
             | 
             | I finished this past weekend: https://twitter.com/CaseySoft
             | ware/status/1728507279001923983
        
             | digging wrote:
             | Speaking of overkill, you might reconsider the Ring cams to
             | be replaced with something more local. Public-facing Amazon
             | data ingestion isn't the most polite home decor.
        
           | rpearl wrote:
           | I put in a bunch of Caseta smart switches. They are
           | indistinguishable from normal light switches without any
           | smarts, but if I want to, I can also control them via local
           | network. It's nice to go to bed and turn off the entire house
           | with one button. Lights turn off automatically when we all
           | leave.
           | 
           | The thermostat is an ecobee, which is a pretty polished IoT
           | device but I'm frustrated i couldn't get something _more_
           | local. It speaks homekit so I can do a number of actions
           | entirely locally, and if the internet is down it still works,
           | but I do wish it were more self-contained. So again, if I
           | sell or get angry at technology and chuck my HomeAssistant Pi
           | out the window, the thermostat will just work as a
           | thermostat.
           | 
           | Likewise, my blinds are motorized--but they have a working
           | remote paired directly to them. It's incredibly convenient to
           | raise the blinds in the morning for some sunshine
           | automatically and close them after sunset, but they'd work
           | perfectly well without a smart home.
           | 
           | If you purchased my house, you probably wouldn't even know to
           | rip out the "smart home" components because they fail over to
           | just being normal components.
           | 
           | It is not particularly hard to make this method of operation
           | happen, although it admittedly requires a budget above "dirt
           | cheap."
        
             | wyldfire wrote:
             | > They are indistinguishable from normal light switches
             | without any smarts
             | 
             | Except that most normal light switches (that I've
             | encountered) are a toggle and not a momentary.
        
               | jeremiahbuckley wrote:
               | The kind of switches described are rocker switches with a
               | small led to indicate state. In-person they provide every
               | feature of a toggle switch, while also having a remote
               | state change capability.
        
               | rpearl wrote:
               | The new(ish) Caseta paddle switches are pretty
               | indistinguishable visually from normal paddle switches,
               | and operating them is natural even though they don't stay
               | toggled up and down. If that's the sum total of my
               | concession to "these switches are smart", I can't say I
               | care.
        
         | mock-possum wrote:
         | I mean that sucks, but... the thing I did when I bought my
         | house, is rip out all the perfectly nice brand new carpeting. I
         | don't want carpeting, I want hardwood. Not everybody is into
         | smart devices.
        
         | delecti wrote:
         | There's a pretty enormous gulf between what you did and nothing
         | (also it sound like you went a bit wild with home automation).
         | I think you'd be doing your due diligence by just providing a
         | list of products littered around the house, without also
         | spending dozens of hours.
        
         | somehnguy wrote:
         | I love the idea, but yeah that outcome was predictable. Home
         | automation is very much still in the hobby stage and most
         | people simply don't care about it.
         | 
         | I own my home & am into automation - but I don't plan on living
         | in this house forever. As such I try to only install things
         | that can be easily reversed when I move out, e.g wireless
         | instead of hardwired smart switches - devices that piggyback on
         | 'normal' home things. Otherwise I'm just giving the next owners
         | thousands of dollars of things they don't want & unnecessary
         | headaches.
        
           | recursive wrote:
           | > most people simply don't care about it.
           | 
           | That's an optimistic view. I think the most common position
           | would be one of active avoidance. I know that's true for me.
        
         | mrweasel wrote:
         | There is also the option that she did read the binder and
         | decided "No way am I going to deal with all the crap" and had
         | all the "smarts" yanked out an replaced with something that
         | requires much less maintenance. That would have been my
         | reaction.
        
         | VoodooJuJu wrote:
         | She did herself and the next owners a favor by ripping out the
         | smarthome crap.
         | 
         | It's like shag carpet: faddy, kitsch, and high maintenance.
         | Smarthome stuff in particular is just so overkill. I don't want
         | to overengineer my home. I don't want apps and QR codes and
         | documentation just to water my garden or operate the lights.
         | I'm not a nerd who enjoys tinkering with this stuff. I have
         | shit to do. I want my hose to work like a hose, my washing
         | machine like a washing machine, etc. And that's the case for
         | most people.
         | 
         | Playing with smarthome gadgets is a fun niche hobby, but it's
         | not a hobby most people want.
        
       | zellyn wrote:
       | After years of owning services at work, I started writing
       | runbooks for my house (and our holiday place).
       | 
       | This looks a lot more organized and polished, but I can also
       | highly recommend a Google Drive folder consisting of a main
       | Google Doc, and all the various PDF copies of manuals that it
       | links to. I plan on handing the runbooks off when/if we sell...
        
       | donatj wrote:
       | I live in the house I grew up in. My dad designed the second
       | floor, an addition.
       | 
       | He knows the skeleton of this house in a way I never ever will.
       | He lives 50 miles away now, but I still have him as an amazing
       | resource about my house.
       | 
       | I wanted to run cat5 to my office on the second floor a number of
       | years ago. "Oh just drill a hole in the floor right here in this
       | corner, there's a void that goes all the way from the second
       | floor to the basement." Sure enough.
       | 
       | What I want is the schematics that my dad has in his head.
        
         | rootusrootus wrote:
         | Best thing I ever did when our house was built was go through
         | the entire house the day before the drywall went up, and take
         | _many_ pictures of everything I could see. So now, when I want
         | to do something, I know exactly what the framing looks like,
         | where the water lines run, drains, electric, everything. It 's
         | very handy.
        
           | brk wrote:
           | And with a cheap projector you can shine those pictures on
           | the walls for X-ray vision. BTDT.
        
             | rootusrootus wrote:
             | oooh, now that's an idea I had not thought of. Thanks!
        
           | acherion wrote:
           | I did the same, before our plasterboard went up, I went
           | around with a video camera and videod everything (borrowed my
           | brother in law's digicam). It has helped heaps!
        
           | bombcar wrote:
           | If you don't want to do it yourself, you can hire a home
           | inspector to do a pre-drywall inspection, and pay extra for
           | full camera documentation.
           | 
           | If they're good, they'll know what you want and they will
           | also help the builder avoid callbacks. Many things are
           | insanely easy to fix before the drywall is up.
           | 
           | I also recommend that _you_ do the same walkthrough, of
           | course.
        
         | lrivers wrote:
         | As a dad, one of my very favorite things is when one of my
         | offspring asks me a question I have a solid answer for.
         | 
         | Probably, when you ask him this stuff, he glows inside.
        
       | dools wrote:
       | I do this as a maintenance schedule on a Trello board. Each list
       | is an interval (1 day, 7 days, 180 days and so on) and each thing
       | to do is a card. When the due date is marked complete, an
       | automation advanced the due date the correct number of days _from
       | today_ (except in the 1 day list when it advances it 24 hours
       | from the original due date).
       | 
       | Then I have another Trello board where I stick documents and
       | reference material.
        
         | phanimahesh wrote:
         | I'm building a recurring reminder system to scratch my own itch
         | for this, with a checklist centered approach for home
         | maintenance.
        
           | RasmusMerirand wrote:
           | No need for that, we built dobu.me for this, currety
           | completely free as we are gathering feedback :)
        
       | chezball wrote:
       | So, i sold a house i had in north Seattle after a divorce in
       | 2018. We had bought it in 04, i was working at Microsoft at the
       | time. We raised our son there. I even built a 8'x8'x8' brick oven
       | for baking pizza and bread (plans from Ovencrafters). I rented an
       | excavator for a week and dug around the entire house and put in
       | 12' deep footing drains, with clean-out pipes every 20' down the
       | 100' to the road. A new 2" pex water main. 1" pvc sprinkler lines
       | buried 3' deep. I completely gutted and remodeled the basement. I
       | kept a 3" binder with everything in it. Every sprinkler line,
       | footing drain, how my gravity fed recirc system worked,
       | electrical wire, even the pictures of every stage of the six
       | month long brick oven project, including how to move it if needed
       | (10k lbs, but doable with a forklift) When i sold the house, i
       | flew back there just to hand it to the new owner, some nuevo
       | amazon guy. I went through everything with him, and although he
       | listened, there was no interest or appreciation in what i had
       | handed him. Fine. Whatever.
       | 
       | I moved back to Seattle a few months ago, and my 17 yo son, who
       | was literally born in that house (on a Murphy Bed i built, also
       | included in the manual (the plans, not that my son was born on
       | it, how weird do you think i am?) went and knocked on the door,
       | and he asked if he could look around (outside). They apparently
       | looked at him as if he was deranged, but said sure.
       | 
       | He reported back that they had razed the brick oven, the one
       | thing i thought would out last me in my life. I hoped that one
       | day, maybe some kids would be eating pizza from this oven 100
       | years from now and no one would know where the oven came from.
       | 
       | Yeah, I haven't had a house since then, but i will do it again,
       | document everything. I will just be pickier about who i sell it
       | to.
        
         | argc wrote:
         | Yeah sounds like the people who bought it suck. Why would you
         | destroy a pizza oven? It would add a ton of value to the house
         | for the right buyer. If you had sold it to me I would have
         | absolutely kept the oven :) Also inspires me to follow a
         | similar path for my house. I think the key is to price the
         | house so only someone who values the work you've done would
         | bother buying it, if you have the time to wait around. And I
         | guess that doesn't guarantee anything.
        
           | bluGill wrote:
           | One of those things that adds a ton of value for the right
           | person, but for the wrong person is equally negative value
           | (it takes up 64 square feet of yard space!). While most
           | people won't really care. And so while it can add a lot of
           | value to the right person, overall it is zero value. Even to
           | the right person it won't be as much value as you would
           | expect - unless they are putting a more than normal down on
           | the house the bank will then value that at zero and thus not
           | give them a loan for what that feature is worth.
           | 
           | Pools are the same thing - should be valuable to the right
           | buyer, but in practice worth zero. Even the most valuable
           | remodels - kitchens - often are worth less than not doing it
           | at all because while it adds a lot of value to the house it
           | doesn't add as much as they cost.
        
             | grogenaut wrote:
             | thats why you should remodel while you live there so you're
             | actually getting value out of your expenditures, not just
             | upgrading everything right before you move out.
        
               | balderdash wrote:
               | Renovating before moving is the worst (excluding clean up
               | (fresh paint, etc) - I feel like most people have
               | horrible taste and use cheapo contractor grade materials,
               | last time I was buying a house I couldn't believe how
               | many newly renovated homes I saw where I thought "wow
               | this needs a ton of work"
        
             | bombcar wrote:
             | Pools are worse - they are usually worth negative money
             | when it comes time to sell, because you cannot just let it
             | sit, unlike the pizza oven (at least in theory).
        
           | Gigachad wrote:
           | Because it takes up space and is mostly pointless vs a
           | portable propane or electric one.
        
         | xyzelement wrote:
         | Thank you for sharing that story. Don't be too upset about the
         | pizza oven. You built it for you and your son and hopefully you
         | got to enjoy it for a while.
         | 
         | There is no expectation for the new owners to share the prior
         | owners interests. Maybe they are gluten free. Maybe they are
         | the kinds of people who have zero inters in baking, whatever.
         | You can't expect them to use the 64 sq ft of their yard as a
         | monument to something you did if it's not relevant to them.
         | 
         | I do get the idea of being attached to your home and hoping it
         | goes to good hands. We have that kind of relationship with the
         | folks we bought our house from and that's great. But there is
         | no expectation that we won't change it to suit our family.
        
           | bombcar wrote:
           | A corollary of this isn't you don't mind things like random
           | pizza ovens, you can ask the realtors to bring houses with
           | "odd features" to your attention, because they often have no
           | or negative value.
        
         | pfd1986 wrote:
         | Sad to hear about that. It's one of my dreams, after finally
         | purchasing a home, to add a nice wood fire oven in the
         | backyard. I'm guessing you don't have the pictures anymore?
         | Would love to see them.
        
         | htss2013 wrote:
         | It's just odd from the perspective of a non American, because
         | in much of the rest of the world houses are usually kept in
         | families multi generationally. So your dream of passing on the
         | oven would have worked most other places. It's just your
         | desires are incompatible with the American treatment of houses
         | as commodities to be frequently traded in bidding auctions.
        
           | masklinn wrote:
           | That's not been the case for a while in developed economies.
           | The vagaries of modern life and work means most people can't
           | live where they grew up, make their life elsewhere, possibly
           | multiple elsewhere, and only go back to visit. Unless there's
           | a real business to inherit e.g. a farm or hotel or some such.
           | 
           | That was already the case in my grandparents generation. On
           | my father's side is a large farm, but my grandparents moved
           | into it. The eldest lives there, and a few of the aunts and
           | uncles have shares from inheritance so they _might_ move into
           | it eventually. Most of them made their lives elsewhere, and
           | their kids went even further afield.
           | 
           | On the other side, the grandparents came down from the
           | mountain, built a house, the kids made their own lives
           | throughout the country. The house was sold when my
           | grandmother died a few years back. And she died in that home,
           | for most of my friends the houses were sold when the elder
           | had to move to assisted living (or worse when the house was
           | lost for lack of income).
           | 
           | Generational homes were a thing when people didn't need to
           | move around, but my own parents moved 4 times just in my
           | lifetime. So far.
        
             | varjag wrote:
             | I think it's not even the case in developing economies,
             | with substantial economic and population growth. It simply
             | can't work like that.
        
               | bombcar wrote:
               | Even with significant growth it _can_ happen - existing
               | houses stay in the family, but the majority of people
               | live in new housing.
        
           | balderdash wrote:
           | That probably worked when life expectancies were lower, where
           | are people supposed to live the other 25+ years of housing?
        
         | eddieroger wrote:
         | > I will just be pickier about who i sell it to.
         | 
         | You may sell the house, but you keep the memories. It sucks
         | your grandkids won't be able to eat from your pizza oven, but
         | you did, and you can talk about how you made it, and how much
         | you enjoyed it, and that lives on. My parents sold their home a
         | few years ago, and while my dad will regularly talk about how
         | he misses it and what terrible changes the new owners make, it
         | doesn't change that I was raised in that house, and we had
         | great times and memories there, and he will now have a chance
         | to make them with his granddaughter in his new house. It
         | stings, but try not to let it.
        
         | Larrikin wrote:
         | >I will just be pickier about who i sell it to.
         | 
         | Honestly this kind of mindset is a huge problem in the US. You
         | built the oven, you enjoyed the oven, and you decided to sell
         | the house. Why do you feel the need to dictate what the owner
         | does with the house after? If you wanted to keep the pizza oven
         | as some kind of monument to yourself you could have kept the
         | home.
         | 
         | This kind of mindset leads to stale neighborhoods, where some
         | locals feel the need to dictate neighborhood look and feel. You
         | end up with regulations that don't allow new construction and
         | can even dictate dumb things like paint color. All to preserve
         | a memory of something that is only important to the people that
         | got to enjoy it when it was new.
         | 
         | This is not say nothing should ever be preserved if there is
         | actually something of historical importance that happened
         | there, but it seems like there's a mindset to preserve things
         | that are trivial to the many and important to the few. Then
         | there are places with actual historical significance [1] people
         | are willing to just rot.
         | 
         | 1: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/mar/30/rosa-
         | parks-h...
        
           | ajkjk wrote:
           | What's wrong with minding? A person does something they're
           | proud of, they obviously care about its future. Just because
           | you completed some financial transaction doesn't mean any of
           | that emotional attachment goes away.
           | 
           | Honestly it is kinda depressing that anyone thinks otherwise!
           | like somehow we should respect capitalism and $business$ more
           | than, like, feelings.
        
             | cinntaile wrote:
             | The person that put time and effort into building it
             | obviously cares, but the new homeowner most likely doesn't
             | give a shit. Why would they? They bought the house without
             | the emotional attachments. It's like inheriting a house
             | from a relative. You dump most of it in a huge container
             | but when they were alive they probably had a lot of
             | emotional attachment to some of the stuff you just dumped
             | in there. It doesn't have to do with capital or business.
        
           | mgsloan2 wrote:
           | Whoah, that interpretation seems pretty wild to me. They put
           | a lot of effort into building a pizza oven and someone else
           | tore it down, and they should feel nothing about this?! If an
           | artist sells their painting they shouldn't care if the new
           | owner paints over a section?
           | 
           | Beyond the sentimental attachment to the pizza oven, I'd be
           | bothered by the sheer inefficiency of it.
        
             | nerdponx wrote:
             | > I'd be bothered by the sheer inefficiency of it.
             | 
             | This is the part that hurts me the most. I don't like when
             | good things go to waste.
        
               | mozey wrote:
               | Been renovating an old house with a large garden for
               | almost ten years now. I tell myself this is better than
               | building something from scratch, but it definitely
               | doesn't always feel more efficient. It helps that I
               | didn't have the option back then, but now maybe I do?
               | Sometimes it's also hard to tell, in the moment, which
               | things to keep and what to rip out.
        
               | taude wrote:
               | You're assuming they like pizza and want an 8x8' pizza
               | oven taking up space in the back yard....
        
               | bombcar wrote:
               | Reminds me of the tale of the guy who was told by his
               | realtor that he could put $20k in new windows and sell
               | the house for $50k more. He did and it sold, and was
               | immediately torn down.
        
             | hoseja wrote:
             | You are allowed to be inefficient with things you own.
             | Again, shouldn't have sold the house if they wanted to keep
             | control of it.
        
               | bombcar wrote:
               | Or be a rat bastard and tie a covenant to the land
               | forever muahahahaha
        
             | delecti wrote:
             | It's totally reasonable to be sad someone tore it down, but
             | you also have to accept that you lose any say over a house
             | when you sell it.
        
           | 28304283409234 wrote:
           | But why buy a house if younger going to tear everything down
           | or change it? Why not buy something that you already like?
           | Why not accept that tearing down and rebuilding is expensive,
           | for you and for the planet? Why not just accept "good
           | enough"?
        
             | Fatnino wrote:
             | Because the land under the house is worth so much more than
             | the "improvements" on top of it that the improvements might
             | as well not exist.
        
             | nostrademons wrote:
             | You're buying the land and location. There's always someone
             | willing to make you a new house for the right price, and
             | you can get it done exactly the way you want it. There's
             | nobody that can make new land, particularly not in the
             | place you want it. You can change anything about a house
             | except its location.
        
             | toast0 wrote:
             | The house I want isn't available, so I'm going to buy the
             | closest thing and make the changes I want... building a
             | pizza oven is a lot of time and effort, but tearing it out
             | isn't. I'm not sure how much a pizza oven adds to the price
             | of a home, but I'm guessing, not that much because most
             | people aren't going to understand its value ... anyway, as
             | a buyer it's not like I'm getting a list of features I can
             | refuse some of, the house is being sold with the pizza oven
             | and I'll deal with it when it's mine.
        
               | bombcar wrote:
               | Exactly. One person bought a house and added a pizza over
               | because he wanted it, another bought it and removed it
               | because he didn't want it.
               | 
               | It's nice to think we might do something that lasts a
               | long time but the more nonstandard it is, the more likely
               | it will be changed someday.
               | 
               | A similar effort on a fancy "outdoor kitchen/barbecue" in
               | a more outdoorsy state than WA may have lasted a long
               | time.
        
             | mavhc wrote:
             | It's too cheap to pollute the planet, the solution is to
             | price in the externalities, tax everything the amount it
             | costs to clean up the pollution it causes, then spend that
             | money cleaning up the pollution
        
           | peebeebee wrote:
           | Things can have sentimental value. We need more of this
           | sentiment in the world, not less. Certainly for architecture.
           | It's that detached mindset that is also partially responsible
           | for all the horrible empty architecture nowadays. Just a box
           | to live in.
        
             | Larrikin wrote:
             | I actually agree with this statement, but people should be
             | allowed to build the sentimental value. They shouldn't have
             | the sentimental value of someone else's past ideas dictate
             | the new.
             | 
             | An awful local law may have dictated that the OP should not
             | have been allowed to build a pizza oven in the first place,
             | because people want to preserve the look and feel of the
             | neighborhood when they moved in. But I also view it as
             | equally bad if the new owner couldn't tear it down because
             | of some HOA regulation saying that structures built before
             | some arbitrary date, conveniently a time after they moved
             | in and did their renovations, can't be torn down. The only
             | real reason being the sentimental value they have to that
             | past.
        
               | bombcar wrote:
               | The latter can happen with historic designated buildings,
               | and can often be applied widely in unexpected ways. Some
               | will basically say you can't modify the exterior look,
               | others will say everything up to and including bulb
               | changes must be approved by the historical society.
        
           | Terr_ wrote:
           | > Honestly this kind of mindset is a huge problem in the US.
           | 
           | It sounds like _less_ of a problem than its opposite:
           | "Nothing matters but how much money I can make."
        
             | Larrikin wrote:
             | Whatabout something else that is a problem in the world?
             | Your post history seems like you exist to be an example in
             | a Wikipedia article
             | 
             | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
        
               | allknowingfrog wrote:
               | You extrapolated "I will just be pickier about who i sell
               | it to" into an argument about regulations. If your
               | contention is that sentiment obstructs progress, it seems
               | totally fair to argue that the opposite is also true.
               | Accusing someone of "whataboutism" isn't doing much to
               | move the conversation forward.
        
               | Larrikin wrote:
               | They made a snarky single sentence comment. There is no
               | argument about any thing else.
               | 
               | I have a quote from the OP, but address matters from the
               | entire comment.
               | 
               | You are arguing about two sentences.
        
           | dataengineer56 wrote:
           | Why keep a complex thing in your garden if you know you'll
           | never use it? All of the infrastructure around it sounds like
           | it needs a lot of maintenance. It's arguably more efficient
           | to remove it rather than risk any of it going wrong.
           | 
           | If OP loved it so much then he should have moved it. Once
           | he's sold the house then it's not his business anymore.
        
         | alexandre_m wrote:
         | Unless you're selling to a family member, you just can't expect
         | these things to last.
         | 
         | I share the feeling though.
        
         | swells34 wrote:
         | Honestly, the singularly wonderful thing about purchasing a
         | home is that you can do whatever you want with it. The sky is
         | the limit, you can make the yard into a garden, build a pizza
         | oven into your wall, turn the basement into a gaming pad. You
         | did all of those cool things with it!
         | 
         | Now, don't begrudge the people coming after you for doing the
         | same. It's their house, not yours, and they have the chance to
         | make it how they like it. If you want control over a thing,
         | don't sell it. Similarly, if you want to dictate what your
         | employees do during non work hours, you have to pay them for
         | it. You treat something as a commodity, and it becomes a
         | commodity.
        
         | ryandrake wrote:
         | Less sentimental, but just as infuriating (to me): My last
         | house we bought had an old hot tub out back from the early 90s.
         | My agent said don't price that POS into your estimate of the
         | home's worth--it's probably never worked. We bought the house
         | and lo and behold it did not work, but I carefully rehabbed it,
         | replaced the pumps and sensors and cleaned everything up, made
         | a custom topper for it, and went on to enjoy 8 years of fun in
         | it.
         | 
         | Came time to sell the house, and I told the buyer, the hot tub
         | is great--we'd love to keep it--if you don't want it, we can
         | negotiate that, and we'll arrange to actually move it to our
         | new home! They didn't respond and bought the house anyway. I
         | find out from my next door neighbor that the first thing they
         | did when they moved in was demolish it and haul it to the dump.
         | 
         | Hey, it's their house, but some people are just wasteful.
        
           | saalweachter wrote:
           | When I bought a house, the prior owners requested I return
           | the front door to them within N days, the contract had a
           | section keeping $500 in escrow to be returned to me upon
           | receipt of the door (by the shipping company, I believe).
           | 
           | My realtor was like, "this basically means the house costs
           | $500 more", but I went ahead and returned the door.
           | 
           | If you're faced with that situation in the future, you could
           | try including a clause like that in the contract; the $500
           | wasn't really the motivation for me to immediately replace
           | the door and pack up the old for shipping, but putting a
           | little money on the line might motivate the buyer to at least
           | value the feature you'd like returned if they don't care for
           | it.
        
             | bombcar wrote:
             | It's fine but I'm just laughing at "the front door doesn't
             | convey".
        
         | walteweiss wrote:
         | What a wonderful story! We need to start a community of guys
         | who documents their Jose' houses. I am in the process of
         | documenting mine, it is so very helpful for everything I ever
         | do around it! Before this very post I never thought someone
         | else could do that.
        
         | greedo wrote:
         | When I had much more energy (read younger), I finished my
         | basement. 800sqft or so, put in a guest bedroom, a little
         | library for the missus, a full bath and most importantly a home
         | theater. I was talking with my neighbor who is a realtor and he
         | said that if anything the home theater was a negative during
         | resale. The only things that added value were the other rooms.
         | Luckily, I built the theater so it could be converted into a
         | game room etc, and most importantly, I built it for myself.
        
       | h2odragon wrote:
       | Another good trick is to label each outlet and light switch with
       | the number of the circuit breaker its connected to. Things such
       | as a big label on the valve: "MAIN WATER CUTOFF" are also a good
       | idea.
       | 
       | Centralized documentation is _great_ , but who reads manuals?
        
         | nucleardog wrote:
         | Locality of the information is important.
         | 
         | People will see comments in the code. They may even bother to
         | read a README.md dropped in the same folder as the files
         | they're looking at. They probably won't look in a docs/ folder
         | in the root and they're almost definitely not going to go
         | search Confluence.
         | 
         | Centralized documentation is great for high level information.
         | "Here's an overview of the water treatment system." You know
         | where I wanna see instructions for resetting the alarm after
         | cleaning the filter? Beside the filter.
         | 
         | Most of my "home documentation" is sharpied pieces of masking
         | tape stuck around the place.
        
         | bluGill wrote:
         | Don't waste your time labeling each outlet/switch. While it can
         | be useful at times, most of them will not be used before some
         | other project requires moving the breakers to a different
         | position in the box and then they are worse than nothing: if
         | you trust them you get a shock!
        
           | h2odragon wrote:
           | nah, those projects get secondary, subsidiary boxes off one
           | of the 6-0 feeders.
        
             | bluGill wrote:
             | You still need to have room for the breakers that feed
             | those subsidiary boxes. Most breaker panels are only rated
             | for those higher power breakers in a few of the slots (not
             | anywhere), and thus you have to move lower power breakers
             | around to make room for the higher powered ones.
        
       | bmitc wrote:
       | I have been considering this but haven't arrived at the right
       | platform to use yet. I've considered Notion, Confluence, and
       | other such things. Ideally I want calendar integration where we
       | all know who has what appointment on what day and various other
       | documented things about the house, mainly for our own needs, cat
       | sitters, etc.
       | 
       | What tools do people use for this stuff?
        
         | RasmusMerirand wrote:
         | We have built out home management platform https://dobu.me for
         | more of the maintenace handling, but I would really appreciate
         | if you could give it a go and let me know your thoughts :)
        
       | renewiltord wrote:
       | I just have a Google Doc with all of the stuff in there:
       | 
       | - utilities and where they're paid and expected cost
       | 
       | - issues if any with common appliances, e.g.                 -
       | dishwasher occasionally needs to be manually spun with size 7 hex
       | key (placed under)
       | 
       | - who I've given keys to
       | 
       | - where I pay rent to and when and how much
       | 
       | - how to request access to the home lights and voice system
       | 
       | I just call it a House Manual and since it's easy to put pictures
       | and stuff into a Google Doc and you can put videos somewhere
       | else. The primary consumer of this is me. My wife just remembers
       | everything.
        
       | alaskamiller wrote:
       | Airbnb hosts do this.
       | 
       | An engineering friend of mine has documented and labeled every
       | aspect of his vacation rental in Hawaii.
       | 
       | The only thing is, it's styled the same as the 1980s terminal
       | systems he worked on down to the embossed black tape labels that
       | gets attached to every switch, knob, and dial.
       | 
       | Treat your house like a black box.
        
         | dekhn wrote:
         | Just thinking about those labels made me flash back to the
         | 1980s. I hated the embossed black tape label aesthetic.
        
       | tky wrote:
       | The concept is spot on but the implementation seems awfully
       | complex.
       | 
       | My strategy that has scaled well over several homes: write
       | install date/vendor/serial on the front of appliance manuals and
       | keep them in a folder. Yes, you can scan them but it's often
       | easier to look at a paper manual while troubleshooting an
       | appliance.
       | 
       | For notes, punchlists, "how I did it" reminders and details, a
       | shared Apple note or Notion page or Google doc is great. Spouse
       | acceptance factor high and participation factor higher.
        
       | weirdkid wrote:
       | Awesome advice and a great way to prepare for unexpected death or
       | incapacitation (if you are the one in your family who usually
       | handles all this stuff). I only would add that if you do go ahead
       | with this, use tools or a medium that mere mortals are familiar
       | with. Assume the person who needs to read it only knows git as a
       | Larry the Cable Guy reference ("git 'er done!").
        
         | yaky wrote:
         | Exactly my thoughts as well. Labels and stickers in appropriate
         | locations. E.g: my house has junction boxes with circuit labels
         | in marker. Notes for appliance specifics, filter sizes, etc.
         | This way the information can be found at the relevant location,
         | does not get deleted, or goes behind a paywall.
         | 
         | Us tech people love to over-complicate things sometimes.
        
         | knallfrosch wrote:
         | I think this overly technical approach from the OP is terrible
         | for a handover. You're now tied to this exact stack of
         | technologies and after your death, it won't be updated even
         | once.
         | 
         | I tape the manual and the transit bolts of a dishwasher to the
         | top of it and that's it. For heating and stuff, a laminated
         | sheet of paper attached to the pipe does the trick. If you love
         | all things digital, create a shared online folder filled with
         | .docx documents. For those you'll find a tool to open and edit
         | them in 40 years time.
         | 
         | Sure, for some the creation of the digital stack _is_ the
         | purpose itself. But documentation that lasts decades? I don 't
         | believe it.
        
           | walteweiss wrote:
           | Why don't do both? I do both. Long digital documentation and
           | short one printed on a piece of paper attached to the thing.
        
       | Brajeshwar wrote:
       | Wow! I love this. I'm going to copy the hell out of this.
       | 
       | I'm a proud "organized person" and have documentation for family
       | and relatives. I've got the "Inventory" for most major appliances
       | and long-term items in the house. On my wife's side, they are a
       | massive Indian family with 20+ cousins across each generation
       | living in large mansions spanning a tiny community. Most of the
       | time, the wife or I would call from across the country to ask
       | where "that was kept," which services go where, and which cable
       | (I labeled most of them) to look for when the Internet goes down.
       | The in-laws would keep a list of what to set up, fix, and
       | organize when I visit next.
       | 
       | I'm not in favor of using any software or tools for these. I want
       | to stay with OpenFormats, plain-text, PDFs, etc, organized in
       | files. Since the pandemic, I have been slowly documenting and
       | collecting the medical records of my immediate family. This has
       | helped a lot when the father-in-law had to go through an
       | extensive heart-related treatment last year.
       | 
       | Thanks for doing this. This is a big inspiration, though a tad
       | more micro and technical than I wanted. I suggest others who
       | haven't started something -- stay simple and keep it to files --
       | something that would have worked 20 years ago and will likely
       | work in the next 50 years. If you use a tool, it should be like a
       | varnish on top; the contents should work on its own.
        
         | tomcam wrote:
         | > On my wife's side, they are a massive Indian family with 20+
         | cousins across each generation living in large mansions
         | spanning a tiny community.
         | 
         | Well I want to see the Bollywood musical about that family,
         | preferably with a triumphant return of Priyanka Chopra, and
         | music by Devi Sri Prasad.
        
           | Brajeshwar wrote:
           | LOL! It is indeed a masala of everything. ;-)
           | 
           | Once, the Father-in-law had to be told to stop his speech
           | mid-way the 30-min mark at a family gathering. Yes, the
           | family often had to organize big meetups and the elders had
           | to give speeches. This is a family spread across countries,
           | embracing multiple religions, languages, and beliefs - so
           | speech-lot-happens-a-lot.
        
       | jairuhme wrote:
       | I see a few comments describing how their documentation that they
       | handed over went without love. I'll add a different perspective.
       | I bought a fixer upper (really just needed a face lift) from a
       | couple who's parents lived there but passed away. The only thing
       | left behind was a plastic bag of appliance manuals, some old
       | receipts, and most importantly, a sheet of paper with dates, when
       | things were updated, and how much it cost. This has been
       | extremely valuable to me, allowing me to take the guesswork out
       | of figuring out how old my A/C or furnace is, when the basement
       | was remodeled, or how much carpet was ordered for the spare
       | bedroom. This was a blessing to have as a first time homeowner
       | and I am very grateful to have had that handed down.
        
         | dekhn wrote:
         | We got the same when my parents moved into their current house
         | (about 35 years ago). I thought it was a very grown-up thing-
         | not just appliance manuals, but actual hand-written
         | explanations of where all the important things were and details
         | on the history of the house. It felt uncommon and special but I
         | guess it isn't!
        
         | bombcar wrote:
         | I don't bother writing documentation, I write on the pipes and
         | walls and equipment.
         | 
         | My furnace has the install date in sharpie on it, along with
         | maintenance dates.
         | 
         | The main sewer line has the last time it was cleared, who
         | cleared it, and where the blockage was.
         | 
         | An industrial label printer makes these easy.
        
       | AtlasBarfed wrote:
       | I think it is a great startup to provide a repository that pulls
       | from public records as well as any private details you provide
       | and centralizes this information.
       | 
       | For example, your HVAC, water heater, central circuitboard, and
       | central air system can have maintenance schedules and technical
       | info, but that can be hard to know, because all you usually have
       | is a model number.
       | 
       | Likewise with the coming home solar revolution and home storage
       | systems, there will be other major systems that will be long
       | lasting and major cornerstones of your house.
       | 
       | Also, your utlities can provide info. All of it can be
       | centralized into a dashboard.
       | 
       | What I want to avoid though is the geewhiz smarthome. Sure it can
       | integrate with that eventually, but I think people would like
       | better info about a basic dumb home.
       | 
       | Maybe provide a service where someone comes (or they send you a
       | kit) to scan the house with those things that can see through
       | drywall, scan for heat maps/leaks, or just scan the shape of each
       | room and form a map of the house. Of course this provides
       | opportunities for upsales and the like.
        
         | mrmlz wrote:
         | https://www.homer.co/
         | 
         | Pulls data from Swedish public records - not sure how it
         | handles other countries.
        
       | nemo44x wrote:
       | I made a manual for my house and have been fortunate to meet
       | previous owners. My house hasn't changed hands often but it's old
       | so naturally a variety of things have been done. Myself, I've
       | made massive changes.
       | 
       | The future owners will have a manual detailing everything worth
       | knowing as I judge it.
        
       | hotsauceror wrote:
       | I buy a small moleskine notebook for every house we've bought,
       | that becomes the 'house book'. Major appliance purchases, dates
       | and serial numbers. A 'local' copy of the circuit breakers.
       | Renovations with dates, costs. Room diagrams with measurements.
       | 
       | But also things like the paint codes and finishes for every room,
       | trim, ceilings, etc. That really comes in handy when you have to
       | do a drywall repair or something and the only can you have left,
       | the paint has slopped over the label.
       | 
       | I also had a separate notebook for The Move and The Purchase. It
       | had all the contacts - mortgage lending officer, realtors,
       | inspectors; appointments, vendors, dates of major events; move-in
       | punch list, move-out punch list, inventory with what to keep,
       | what to toss, what to donate. Expenditures, documents to drop off
       | at which municipal offices along with addresses and phone
       | numbers.
       | 
       | It's really empowering to have all that information literally at
       | your fingertips.
        
         | mikepurvis wrote:
         | > the paint codes and finishes for every room, trim, ceilings
         | 
         | Paint codes alone are so worthwhile. My current house has three
         | light greys in it that are all subtly different and when I
         | moved in there was just one grey paint can in the basement with
         | no indication which one of them it was.
        
           | grogenaut wrote:
           | can you not just take a paint chip to sherwan williams or
           | equivalent and have them match it? That's what we did when we
           | repainted our house just to make sure and we had done the
           | previous paint as well.
        
             | mrmlz wrote:
             | The O.G paint-code can be hard to find if its been awhile
             | and exposed to the elements etc.
        
               | saalweachter wrote:
               | A big step for me was just figuring out which hardware
               | store the previous owner frequented.
               | 
               | Each major line of paints has slightly different colors,
               | so figuring out of it was Sherwin Williams, Behr,
               | Valspar, etc let me identify the right color collection
               | and narrow things down enough for me to guess what he was
               | using.
        
             | mikepurvis wrote:
             | The original paint chip with the name on it doesn't need to
             | be matched because they can just look up the formula.
             | 
             | A chip as in a sample of the drywall... that I've found to
             | be much more of a mixed bag. My last "matched" paint was
             | nowhere close once the sun was shining on it.
        
           | alexpotato wrote:
           | Unless the wall was painted 20 years ago and the paint code
           | you have no longer matches the current paint.
           | 
           | Source: this happened to my mom and she ended up with
           | slightly discolored spot that people always assumed was a
           | reflected light source.
        
       | bloomingeek wrote:
       | I've always done this for my cars\trucks, every oil and filter
       | change, tires and other assorted parts. Since I never trade in my
       | vehicles and keep them at least ten or more years, the list can
       | get long. (I give the vehicle away when I want to upgrade.) On
       | appliances for the home, I always keep the owners manuals and
       | make notes in them as needed. (Sadly, some newer appliances don't
       | have paper manuals any longer.)
       | 
       | The only flaw in my system is I tend to use a kind of short-hand
       | in my record keeping. Thus, when I gave my Mazda 5 minivan to my
       | daughter and son-in-law, I had to explained a few things. :-)
       | 
       | A word of caution: Never give away a vehicle that isn't in safe
       | working operation! I put a lot of money in the above Mazda to
       | keep it safe for myself. I would still be driving it, I just
       | needed a truck.
        
       | superultra wrote:
       | This didn't happen to me but to a friend. She lives in an old
       | home and has a neverending list of projects, many of which she
       | took up during the pandemic. She would often livestream her rehab
       | at nights just to connect to people as she worked.
       | 
       | One night she was streaming the teardown of a bathroom wall.
       | There, in between the walls, was a clipboard with some notes. She
       | slowly took the clipboard up and started reading. Of course we
       | couldn't see what she was reading, but she started to cry and
       | sniffle.
       | 
       | The clipboard had a list of wiring and installations. Had been
       | written in the 70s. But the front page was a note, she told as
       | she started crying, that said that rehabbing is hard and
       | sometimes lonely work. But to keep at it because one day it's
       | worth it!
       | 
       | That moment arrived at a particularly lonely part of the pandemic
       | for her and those of us watching. Whoever wrote that note and
       | left that documentation from 50 or so years ago of course had no
       | idea how it would find the reader(s) but could there have been a
       | more perfect, beautiful moment than the moment my friend found it
       | in the wall?
        
         | kaycebasques wrote:
         | My uncle lives in an old house in Lodi. He took down some
         | kitchen walls for a major remodel. Somehow, a bunch of letters
         | from the 1920s had slipped between the cracks and got stuck in
         | the wall. It was a bunch of heartwarming, innocent
         | correspondence between the family members now living in
         | California and the ones who stayed back in Oklahoma (or
         | somewhere like that). Uncle chokes up every time he reads those
         | letters.
        
           | mavhc wrote:
           | Behind the wallpaper I removed was a marriage proposal to the
           | previous owner, her relatives still live next door so I got
           | to show them
        
           | mistrial9 wrote:
           | Marshalls ?
        
           | bombcar wrote:
           | All I found was lots of empty bottles of "medicinal" alcohol.
        
         | sghiassy wrote:
         | What a fun story. Thanks for sharing :)
        
         | fsckboy wrote:
         | next time you post change the story, say that the clipboard had
         | half of her current to do list!
        
         | agumonkey wrote:
         | unless the previous owner was a rockstar renovator who only
         | left "the work is self documenting" on a postit
        
           | quickthrower2 wrote:
           | the real 10xers used asbestos everywhere, the magic material
           | that gets it done quick
        
             | taneq wrote:
             | npm i radium
        
           | moffkalast wrote:
           | "If it was hard to build it should be hard to maintain"
        
         | apwell23 wrote:
         | She couldve planted that herself to make livestream more
         | interesting with some sentimental drama.
        
           | jacquesm wrote:
           | Interesting that your first thought upon reading something
           | like this is that it could have been faked, complete with
           | reason. I think that says more about you than that it does
           | about the person described in the story.
        
         | js2 wrote:
         | She could write a movie from her story:
         | 
         | > On 31 August 1997, startled by the news of the death of
         | Diana, Princess of Wales, Amelie drops a plastic perfume-
         | stopper, which dislodges a wall tile and accidentally reveals
         | an old metal box which contains childhood memorabilia hidden by
         | a boy who lived in her apartment decades earlier.
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Am%C3%A9lie
         | 
         | > While filing, Craig discovers a small hidden door. He crawls
         | through it into a tunnel and finds himself inside the mind of
         | actor John Malkovich.
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Being_John_Malkovich
         | 
         | > A woman (credited as "M") mentions to her musician husband
         | (credited as "C") that as a child, she moved residences
         | frequently and took to hiding little notes wherever she lived.
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Ghost_Story
        
         | jacquesm wrote:
         | I totally get that vibe. I've rebuilt an old farmhouse on my
         | own and it was one of the most exhausting things I've ever
         | done. It got to the point that I could hardly look at it for
         | fear of sinking down furhter so I made the smallest room (2x2
         | meters) into a refuge from the insanity and I made it picture
         | perfect. So the rest of house was in various stages of
         | demolition and reconstruction but that one room survived
         | through all of it and it really helped me to stay sane. In the
         | end it all worked out but that was an insane amount of work.
         | The worst bit was that all of the floor joists had either given
         | out or were so rotten that they had to be replaced so there was
         | a point when you just had a empty space with the roof on top
         | and some bracing to stop the walls from pushing out. It would
         | have probably been better and faster to knock the whole thing
         | over and start from scratch but I was dead set on keeping the
         | outside without any visible modification other than a single
         | tilt window added in one of the roof surfaces.
         | 
         | After that I've done two more major jobs on other houses but
         | I'm at the end of my enthusiasm for this kind of work.
        
         | cdchn wrote:
         | Interstitial home spaces are the 20th century's message in a
         | bottle.
        
       | mtillman wrote:
       | OP mentions using robots.txt to avoid crawling but even google
       | ignores this now correct?
       | 
       | 1. https://www.searchenginejournal.com/google-robots-txt-
       | noinde...
        
         | lwhsiao wrote:
         | OP here. I'm not sure about the details in your link, but
         | basically my understanding lines up with [1]; robots.txt isn't
         | guaranteed to be respected, but generally is.
         | 
         | FWIW, what I specifically have in robots.txt is
         | User-agent: *         Disallow: /
         | 
         | which seems to work well for me so far (i.e., I do not find my
         | house documentation site on any search engine).
         | 
         | [1]: https://developers.google.com/search/docs/crawling-
         | indexing/...
        
           | saalweachter wrote:
           | If I understand the details of the link, it was a particular
           | feature of robots.txt that was considered
           | undocumented/unsupported that Google dropped support for.
           | 
           | I _think_ the point of it was that you could tell Google to
           | crawl some pages (for links) but not index them?
        
       | iJohnDoe wrote:
       | I like the site layout, theme, and functionality. Can some please
       | tell me which system it is? Thanks!
        
         | lwhsiao wrote:
         | OP here. First, thank you!
         | 
         | The site is a simple statically generated site (I use Zola
         | [1]). The theme of the site is inspired by Researcher [2], a
         | theme for Jekyll (another static site generator). I've been
         | meaning to open source my version and add it to the official
         | list of Zola themes [3], but just haven't gotten around to it
         | quite yet. I also use openring-rs [4] for the pseudo webring at
         | the bottom of the posts.
         | 
         | [1]: https://www.getzola.org/
         | 
         | [2]: https://ankitsultana.com/researcher/
         | 
         | [3]: https://www.getzola.org/themes/
         | 
         | [4]: https://github.com/lukehsiao/openring-rs
        
           | walteweiss wrote:
           | I was about to ask the same, and here is your reply already!
           | Thanks.
           | 
           | I would be glad to use your theme whenever it is ready.
        
       | avikalp wrote:
       | Wow, I had been thinking about this for so long! I have had the
       | same problems and was thinking of solutions on the same line.
       | 
       | Although, even as a developer, I am not a big fan of how much
       | time and energy we need to spend maintaining documentation. So
       | while I build something to work towards automating documentation
       | in software (with my effort at vibinex.com), I have also been
       | thinking about home documentation automation.
        
         | RasmusMerirand wrote:
         | What thoughts have you had?
        
       | cyberax wrote:
       | The best advice for me was: get a label maker. Centralized
       | documentation is great, smart home stuff is usually not a big
       | deal to factory reset in the worst case.
       | 
       | But tracing all the Cat5 cables, and security sensors (if you
       | have a hardwired security) is a PITA. And you WILL need to tinker
       | with them eventually.
        
       | guidoism wrote:
       | This is exactly what I do. I call it my "Homeowner's Operating
       | Manual" and it's based on the idea of an individual aircraft's
       | POH. It's all there. Everything I've done to the house.
        
       | SuperNinKenDo wrote:
       | At the risk of giving landlords too many ideas, I think it would
       | be great if landlords provided documentation to tenants as well.
       | There's a lot of maintenance that tenants would frankly be more
       | than happy to carry out, but don't because they don't know what
       | to do, and they don't want to be blamed by their landlord if they
       | stuff it up. Many things I see landlords complain about seem like
       | they could be fixed by simply providing clear advice for tenants.
       | But again, most landlords have pretty warped ideas about wear and
       | tear and what their legal and/or ethical obligations are twloward
       | tenants. Most landlords would probably take this advice and run
       | with expecting their tenants to do constant unpaid maintenance.
       | So I dunno what the solution is there.
        
       | zubairq wrote:
       | This is a good idea, and something that I need, although I think
       | I will just go for a google doc to document my house since it
       | needs to be edited by non techies too
        
       | laowantong wrote:
       | As an Airbnb host, I have done this sort of thing for my guests
       | and my own usage, but with a "flat" structure: a simple,
       | searchable inventory (https://maisonrougevernet.fr/inventaire)
       | which doubles as technical documentation for some items (with
       | optionally links to PDFs, videos, etc.).
        
       | otikik wrote:
       | This amount of organization feels alien to me. The title of the
       | article might as well have been "how to fly by moving your ears
       | really fast"
        
       | pelasaco wrote:
       | So good, I would love to do it, but I guess I wouldn't have the
       | necessary discipline. I will add it to the todo list
        
       | 28304283409234 wrote:
       | Did this last summer. Started as docs for friends taking care of
       | the house for a couple of weeks. Used the multi-language feature
       | of some Hugo theme to switch between 'guest' and 'inhabitant'
       | docs.
       | 
       | Was great when my youngest wanted to make her first coffee
       | herself. "Open your phone and go to home.family.tld and click on
       | howtos!"
        
       | lynx23 wrote:
       | Regarding documentation of physical objects... I am blind. For
       | some time in my life, I was able to remember the layout of
       | various devices in my household. I mean, which button does what,
       | and which jack is for what... But after a while, and especially
       | when I started to pick up a eurorack habit, I realized I need to
       | document front/back panels of devices I don't use on a daily
       | basis regularily. All the layout tools I looked at were totally
       | useless to me, since they assume (understandably) that drawing
       | graphics is the way to go. However, as a Braille user, I'd much
       | rather prefer something that can output ASCII in such a way that
       | the 2D relations between items is at least vaguely preserved.
       | Also, it would be great if the data entered were somehow
       | searchable. I never found anything remotely resembling what I
       | need, so I went for hand-crafted .txt files for now. It works,
       | but it is unsatisfactory. I'd much rather specify the position
       | and function of panel items in some kind of DSL, and have the
       | necessary 2d layout ASCII diagrams and legend generated
       | automatically. Does anyone know of some tools I might have missed
       | whiich could help with this? I was tempted to invent my own DSL,
       | but that felt like reinventing some wheel that must be lying
       | around somewhere...
        
       | jeron wrote:
       | This guy worked for 2.5 years and already bought a house in the
       | Bay Area
       | 
       | Granted, he has a PhD, but must be nice...
        
         | lwhsiao wrote:
         | OP here, I, like many, cannot afford a home in the Bay. After
         | our first kiddo, we moved closer to family in a much more
         | affordable area and I work remotely now.
         | 
         | My mortgage is less than the rent of our previous 1 bedroom
         | apartment in Sunnyvale!
        
       | kaffeeringe wrote:
       | Sometimes a friend or my in-laws live in our appartment to watch
       | our cat. I drew some how-tos. For feeding our cat, cleaning the
       | litterbox. But also how to use the remotes to turn lights on and
       | off.
        
       | rtpg wrote:
       | Since the just script has a virtualenv incantation, I will once
       | again recommend direnv to any Pythonistas out there. Stick
       | "layout python" at the top, have your python stuff be managed for
       | you (modulo having to be within the directory or subdirectory of
       | the project). It's so nice and helps me to avoid so many
       | problems.
        
         | globular-toast wrote:
         | Direnv is my favourite tool I've discovered this year. Apart
         | from Python I also use it for k8s config. You can store your
         | cluster creds and namespace etc with the project so kubectl
         | just works for each project.
        
       | lawgimenez wrote:
       | As a new homeowner myself, this is a neat idea! I have a lot of
       | notes of my house, etc but they are scattered everywhere in my
       | almost 2k+ Apple notes, calendar (for logging) and Day One (for
       | additional logging). I need a system.
        
         | RasmusMerirand wrote:
         | We created a home management platform https://dobu.me just for
         | this, I would really appreciate if you could give it a go and
         | let me know your thoughts :)
        
           | lawgimenez wrote:
           | It's not even opening.
        
       | sghiassy wrote:
       | Good idea
       | 
       | The cynic in me, says entropy will destroy your house and your
       | documentation
       | 
       | ... but I also read a touching comment on this thread to the
       | contrary, so what do I know :)
        
         | datadrivenangel wrote:
         | All we can do is rage against the dying of the light and
         | decrease entropy locally to try and maintain our house and
         | documentation.
        
       | UberFly wrote:
       | Text files printed out in an easy to access location. Don't
       | complicate the lives of those coming after you.
        
       | jwmoz wrote:
       | First known case of over-engineering for house documentation.
        
       | littlelady wrote:
       | I do this already. We have a binder that contains all of the
       | projects that we have done since moving into our home sorted by
       | area and then by year.
       | 
       | I wouldn't do it digitally, because I also keep paint samples and
       | notes that I've taken during the work in the binder. If I had to
       | re-enter those notes I don't know that they would happen.
        
       | squirrel23 wrote:
       | The idea of writing up a documentation for your house is the most
       | engineering thing I ever heard lol. On a side note, really good
       | read :)
        
       | 6510 wrote:
       | Fun fact: Having great logs for a boat adds a lot of value to it.
       | The value of a house in contrast is determined by people who know
       | nothing about houses. They wouldn't see the value of it. A buyer
       | might get it tho.
       | 
       | While organizing the documentation is very nice your future self
       | should be able to find what they are looking for if there is just
       | a log/journal. I don't think it needs to be very organized unless
       | it is consulted frequently.
        
       | splitbrain wrote:
       | As a first time home owner I fully agree. I set up a wiki and
       | document everything.
       | 
       | It's roughly organized by room. General Utilities have their own
       | pages. Drawings, Photos, Invoices all get uploaded there. My wife
       | writes down where which plants got planted in the garden and how
       | they need to maintained.
       | 
       | My hope is that this not only helps us when trying to remember
       | where we put those cables or when an inspection is due but will
       | also make selling in the far future a bit easier. And of course
       | future owners will hopefully thank us.
        
         | walteweiss wrote:
         | Honestly, I thought I'm the only one who does that up until
         | today!
        
       | RasmusMerirand wrote:
       | Our startup https://dobu.me is solving just this problem. We are
       | testing our product for free and currently you can upload your
       | home documentation - with AI we will create products out of them
       | and if something needs regular maintenance we automatically
       | remind you. Plus we have an AI chat so you can "talk" with your
       | home.
       | 
       | We based in Estonia and soon new real estate developments here
       | will come with our platform instead of the paper documentation.
       | We are currently looking into the US market and if you have any
       | ideas or feedback, email me at: rasmus@dobu.ee
        
         | 392 wrote:
         | https://dobu.ee
        
       | 23B1 wrote:
       | We just keep everything in a big binder and have a dedicated
       | email address for the house. When we sell, we'll just hand the
       | whole thing over. No need to overthink ig.
        
       | znpy wrote:
       | I do this, but I run a private instance in MediaWiki which is
       | only reachable either from the home network or via the VPN.
       | 
       | The nice thing about this setup is that editing is pleasant (and
       | fast in iteration), I can use categories to group pages together
       | and I can use some interesting plugins, like the one to embed PDF
       | files into wiki pages.
       | 
       | The latter (embedding PDF files into wiki pages) is particularly
       | useful because I can browse appliances manuals directly from the
       | wiki page itself or download them if necessary, and I have a
       | "Manuals" category where i can find all the manuals I have
       | collected so far.
        
       | WillAdams wrote:
       | The best suggestion I've seen on this is to set up an e-mail
       | address for the house and to then use it for signing up for
       | registering appliances and so forth.
        
         | vazkus wrote:
         | I did exactly this when I bought my house in 2018. It's @gmail
         | and I'm using the drive for storing photos and notes from my
         | DIY projects or contractor work, whatever documentation have on
         | appliances, etc. If I ever sell my house, I'll just pass the
         | password for the email account.
        
       | alfnor wrote:
       | I would set up a wiki but also make regular printed backups: on-
       | site for when the electricity is out, and off-site in case of
       | fire.
        
       | bergie wrote:
       | We have a website documenting our boat, including systems and
       | checklists for common operations. When we get sailing guests, it
       | is easy to send them a link. https://handbook.lille-oe.de/
       | 
       | That said, there are some good additional ideas in the post and
       | this thread that we'll have to consider incorporating.
        
       | JZL003 wrote:
       | This is not the same, and might not get house-mate approval, but
       | I like writing little notes in-situ where I need them. For
       | laundry, little checklists of things I forget to wash (bathroom
       | rugs smh), how long each cycle takes. Houseplants can keep when
       | they were last watered nearby. Only works for high-use areas but
       | still useful
        
       | alkonaut wrote:
       | The thing about docs is that it's tempting to write it and then
       | forget it. And the only thing worse than no docs is outdated
       | docs. Just like my password manager consists of 50/50 passwords I
       | have since updated but not re-entered into the password manager
       | (thus making it frustrating and useless) any big pile of docs
       | will quickly become outdated and then first frustrating, finally
       | useless. This isn't a one off weekend project to "document your
       | home". It's a commitment that lasts as long as you live there.
       | Unless you want to know the model of your _last_ dishwasher, you
       | need to wonder if you really have a passion for this project.
        
       | butz wrote:
       | I've created github page for my house. Waiting for PRs now.
        
       | incomingpain wrote:
       | When I bought my house recently. I documented everything! I had
       | everything in this blog! It was great, found an open source app
       | to organize it. Very wiki-like.
       | 
       | I was so impressed with my accomplishment. Then I'm not sure what
       | happened. The database wouldn't open anymore. None of my backups
       | would work neither. Super confusing. 100% sure those backups
       | ought to open but super wierd.
       | 
       | Worse yet, it should have been plain text disk storage... it
       | wasnt anymore? There isn't any encryption or passwords for this
       | simple app.
       | 
       | My tip: Make sure you use an app your familiar with.
        
       | zie wrote:
       | I start a fossil project for every house I work on (fossil-
       | scm.org) I tend to use the Wiki function and set it up at some
       | website somewhere, so I can refer to it while @ hardware stores,
       | etc.
       | 
       | I always hand a copy off to whoever ends up owning the house, I
       | doubt they ever use it, but it's handy while I am doing it to
       | keep track of stuff. I do it _for me_. If it 's useful for
       | others, that's for them to determine.
        
       | MarkusWandel wrote:
       | One thing that won't work is the "what exactly is the paint"
       | thing. Even if the paint is still made, and the colour code is
       | still valid... the paint won't match it. Paint fades over time.
       | So you might as well just take a chip of it to the paint store
       | for matching, and resign yourself to having to repaint one
       | "surface" (to the nearest corners).
       | 
       | As for hidden "time capsules" - I actually left one of those as a
       | kid in a house that was being built at the time. About 45 years
       | later, with me long moved to another continent, that wall was
       | being modified and they found the note behind the paneling and
       | sent me a photo of it. I hadn't remembered leaving it there.
        
       | jonah wrote:
       | We have an architecturally significant, historic house (built in
       | the 1930s) for our office.
       | 
       | I was tasked with replacing the Eero WiFi mesh with something
       | that actually worked. We needed APs both upstairs and downstairs
       | to provide sufficient coverage - especially through the lath-and-
       | plaster walls.
       | 
       | It was _really_ frustrating for a couple reasons - first, the
       | original design left no open risers to run cabling between the
       | floors and even thought there was a nice 3' tall attic between
       | the ceiling and flat roof, there is no access to it save a 1x2'
       | port in a closet which is blocked by framing members and retrofit
       | HVAC ducting. Secondly, over the years, multiple generations of
       | cabling had been installed allover the building - several sets of
       | coax - presumably for TV as well as CCTV, and bundles and at
       | least 5 different generations of CAT-5e and CAT-6 had been run
       | from the equipment closet across the house through the crawlspace
       | and up through the walls to the second floor and attic. In all
       | cases, the bundles of cables had been clipped off and shoved back
       | through the floor or the cables were cut off, their wall boxes
       | removed, and the holes plastered over leaving it all essentially
       | useless. It made the interior nice and slick, but completely
       | wasted all the effort of the generations of previous installers
       | and perfectly good cabling.
       | 
       | Why couldn't they have just left everything in place and used
       | block-off plates, or plastered over but left the wiring un-cut
       | and documented the spots where the cables were. Or something,
       | anything.
       | 
       | I was able to tone out a cable that I could reach from the
       | ceiling access port and another in the crawlspace, re-terminate
       | them and poke the other ends back up through the floor in the
       | equipment closet and get a couple APs installed, but what a PITA.
       | 
       | /rant
        
       | AlbertCory wrote:
       | This is a great idea for all kinds of reasons, including setting
       | your cost basis when you finally sell the house.
       | 
       | I did some of this for my house sitters, since they need it.
        
       | t0mas88 wrote:
       | Many stories from people creating documentation only for it to
       | get thrown away. Let me share an opposite one:
       | 
       | I bought a house that was empty after divorce, both had moved out
       | some months before. We mostly dealt with the agent, only saw one
       | of the previous owners for a very short time at the signing
       | meeting with the notary.
       | 
       | Then in the house we found a "congratulations on your new place"
       | card, a bottle of sparkling wine, and a binder with everything
       | about the house. Building plans, updated plans for changes made,
       | exactly where every cable and connection was, and manuals,
       | invoices and warranty certificates for equipment in the house.
       | And a hand drawn map of the garden with what type of plant was
       | where, and links to plant care instructions for some of the more
       | exotic plants.
       | 
       | Super nice of the previous owner to arrange these things, and I'm
       | still thankful every time I need to get a cable somewhere or do
       | some small construction things. Having detailed and accurate
       | plans and overviews saves a lot of time.
        
         | ff317 wrote:
         | I bought a new-construction place, and I was around during the
         | process. After they were done with all the plumbing/wiring/etc,
         | but before they filled in the insulation and sheetrock, I
         | walked the whole house and took cellphone pictures of every
         | bare wall to show where all the pipes and wires are run, and
         | then labelled it all up by room. I plan to hand those off if I
         | ever sell the place! I don't know why builders don't just
         | deliver such a set of photos to everyone by default, it's been
         | super handy!
        
           | Mtinie wrote:
           | I agree it's very handy. To provide one answer to the
           | question in your final sentence:
           | 
           | "Closed walls hide many sins."
        
           | danofsteel32 wrote:
           | I am a custom home builder and we do this. It's very handy
           | when the drywallers cover up an outlet or switch.
        
         | nelsonic wrote:
         | Could you share a photo (with any sensitive detail obfuscated)
         | to give us an idea of what this looks like? We are hoping to
         | produce something similar for our house.
        
         | crq-yml wrote:
         | The three-ring binder is vastly underused as a personal
         | organizational tool. It folds up and shelves nicely, and when
         | you stuff it with accessories, it will hold every small gadget,
         | manual, extra screw and receipt.
         | 
         | I have a whole stack of them for various things.
        
       | paulgerhardt wrote:
       | When I built my house, I took a Matterport scan before the
       | drywall was put in, and again after. Best decision I ever made.
       | It's like X-ray vision for walls.
       | 
       | It's handy to know where wiring runs are, how many studs are
       | between windows when mounting tv's, and a dozen other electrical,
       | ac, or plumbing issues. I used it once a week initially and
       | probably once every two months now that we're settled.
       | 
       | Also recommend a Dymo Rhino 5200 cable label maker with heat
       | shrink tubing. I print the label on some heat shrink, attach it
       | to a wire, and never wonder where anything goes again. Great for
       | vehicle wiring harnesses too:
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LcUQeTzIo4&t=66s But I'd
       | recommend the 5200: https://www.amazon.com/DYMO-Industrial-RHINO-
       | Label-1755749/d... - non-affiliate link.
        
         | graton wrote:
         | When you post an affiliate link it would be nice if you stated
         | so.
         | 
         | This has the affiliate tag of: pmg097-20
         | 
         | Without any affiliate link it is: https://www.amazon.com/DYMO-
         | Authentic-Industrial-RhinoPro-18...
        
           | paulgerhardt wrote:
           | Sorry, here's the source on the original:
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LcUQeTzIo4
        
       | crispyambulance wrote:
       | This is VERY a good idea.
       | 
       | I have a steam-based heat and didn't understand, when I first
       | moved in, what was required in terms of maintenance. You MUST
       | flush the boiler at least every season and preferably once a
       | month. 5 years later I needed a boiler replacement-- just shear
       | ignorance on my part.
        
       | bjt12345 wrote:
       | Good idea.
        
       | dbg31415 wrote:
       | Really good to do this!
       | 
       | I recently had drama with a contractor... it went into mediation,
       | and the contractor was able to say, "How do we know this damage
       | wasn't caused before we got there?" Contractors are shady, and
       | likely that wouldn't change, but I wish I had more photos of my
       | house before the flood.
       | 
       | https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/anyone-have-connections-usaa-...
        
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