[HN Gopher] Broadcom lays off many VMware employees after closin...
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       Broadcom lays off many VMware employees after closing acquisition
        
       Author : mfiguiere
       Score  : 239 points
       Date   : 2023-11-27 18:48 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.businessinsider.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.businessinsider.com)
        
       | ska wrote:
       | Least surprising headline of the day?
        
         | p1esk wrote:
         | Are there any surprising headlines today?
        
       | rilindo wrote:
       | As a public cloud engineer, it feels like this is a mistake to
       | cut deeply right when cloud repatriation is starting to be a
       | thing.
        
         | wmf wrote:
         | Why bother repatriating to VMware? It's probably more
         | expensive.
        
           | ghaff wrote:
           | Yeah. Repatriation is probably an overstated trend even if
           | companies are generally getting smarter about where and how
           | they run workloads. But, while it's hard to migrate companies
           | _off_ VMware to a different on-prem solution, I 'm not sure
           | that you'll see workloads being repatriated going onto VMware
           | (unless the company already has a large installed base).
        
           | alephnerd wrote:
           | Most F1000s use ESXi by default. You can concentrate only on
           | direct sales to F1000s and make more than enough revenue.
           | 
           | Look at Zscaler and Crowdstrike for examples - both follow
           | this strategy.
           | 
           | As a business, you optimize for Net Revenue after Cost of
           | Operation. It's always good to drop customers if it costs
           | more to support them than the revenue you get.
        
             | wmf wrote:
             | Right, but those companies don't benefit from repatriation.
             | Their on-prem IT is more expensive than public cloud.
        
               | alephnerd wrote:
               | > Their on-prem IT is more expensive than public cloud.
               | 
               | Not really. Most of those companies have lax Cloud Cost
               | Management hygiene and/or the Cloud Platform team is
               | separate from the Infra/Servers team.
               | 
               | If you are F250 you can probably negotiate a nice
               | discount if you are able to fully migrate to a single
               | cloud, but most companies don't want to keep all their
               | eggs in a single basket. This means larger organizations
               | cannot avail competitive discounts on public cloud.
               | 
               | By bundling Private Cloud (VMWare ESXi), Network Security
               | (VMWare NSX), APM (CA Wiley), Endpoint Protection
               | (Symantec Enterprise), and Data Security (Symantec
               | Enterprise) I can purchase 5 critical pieces of
               | Enterprise Infrastructure using a single PO. This is
               | critical at large organizations as any PO above $30k
               | almost always requires CFO or Comptroller approval, and a
               | single PO to Broadcom satisfies your Infra, DevOps, and
               | Security needs (which are all cost centers if you aren't
               | a tech company).
               | 
               | Btw, Broadcom themselves is almost entirely on GCP [0].
               | Almost all their infra and products are served using a
               | GCP stack on the backend.
               | 
               | [0] - https://www.broadcom.com/blog/broadcoms-
               | transformation-journ...
        
               | wmf wrote:
               | Who do you work for BTW?
        
               | alephnerd wrote:
               | PE/VC in the Enterprise space now. I used to be a PM and
               | SWE and a staffer for a hot second. Not at Broadcom but
               | have worked closely with their team and alumni. The
               | Enterprise Infra space is a small world.
               | 
               | Edit: Also, I didn't realize I'm replying to an actual
               | legend in the systems/networking space. I read some of
               | your papers when I was an undergrad and later as an early
               | career SWE.
        
               | tempnow987 wrote:
               | I looked at VMware "in the cloud". It was around $50,000
               | - $100,000 per year for 48 cores. I've defended AWS
               | pricing many times, mostly because of ability to burst
               | etc. But the VMware workloads are often much flatter in
               | terms of demand - ie, many systems just left running so
               | the AWS value - while there of course, isn't as obvious
               | to me.
        
               | alephnerd wrote:
               | "In the cloud" options are often much more expensive than
               | what they should be due to customer expectations. The
               | margins are much higher than in on-prem (where 80%
               | "discounts" are common).
        
               | tempnow987 wrote:
               | Sure. That said, the cost / benefit tradeoffs often seem
               | pretty good for AWS. The cost is low enough to other
               | costs on a project that gain on velocity is worth it. In
               | others gains on reliability, maintenance savings etc.
               | 
               | Ended up doing a small on-prem solution. VMWare for 6
               | CPUs x 32 cores = 192 cores runs about $3K/year for the
               | software side which is a good deal to get started. That
               | leaves about $240K/year or so to cover other costs. Not a
               | slam dunk necessarily, but the on-prem store with vmware
               | is not unreasonable.
        
               | alephnerd wrote:
               | > the cost / benefit tradeoffs often seem pretty good for
               | AWS
               | 
               | If it's greenfield I'd agree. There's a reason why most
               | companies founded after 2008 have a heavy public cloud
               | presence.
               | 
               | The issue is if you are a large brownfield deployment
               | (like most F1000s), a "Cloud Transformation" takes
               | forever and is costly.
               | 
               | It can be done - for example Capital One and Broadcom -
               | but it requires executive buy-in to respect engineering
               | leadership and build a solid DevOps/Platform team.
               | 
               | I know if I was to found my own company tomorrow, I'd be
               | entire cloud first because of velocity and ease of
               | scalability, but you can't expect a company like
               | UnitedHealth Group to transition to an entirely cloud
               | first environment within a 2-3 year timeframe as even a
               | minor outage represents millions of dollars lost a minute
               | and litigation.
               | 
               | Over the next 10-15 years we'll see a large number of
               | non-tech first companies becoming multi-cloud, but in
               | 2023, it's still work in progress.
        
             | crmd wrote:
             | Every single one of those F1000's has a highly competent
             | CTO office team with an effectively unlimited hc and budget
             | to find a competitive alternative platform to ESX. I don't
             | know if Broadcom is gonna make their money back before open
             | source gets good enough.
        
               | sithadmin wrote:
               | There isn't a 'competitive alternative platform' that
               | achieves feature or performance parity with ESXi.
        
               | alephnerd wrote:
               | > Every single one of those F1000's has a highly
               | competent CTO office team
               | 
               | I agree
               | 
               | > effectively unlimited hc and budget
               | 
               | I disagree.
               | 
               | A company like Google or FB can build in-house tooling
               | simply because they have entire dedicated teams of
               | engineers to manage their environments in house to meet
               | niche needs. A F10 like ExxonMobil or UnitedHealth cannot
               | justify a FB size engineering footprint when their
               | margins are much lower.
               | 
               | > find a competitive alternative platform to ESX
               | 
               | Yep. The issue is ESX is actually pretty good at getting
               | the job done. Your alternatives from a supportability
               | standpoint are HyperV from Microsoft (which will probably
               | eat up the smaller ESX customers), Citrix Hypervisor
               | (owned and operated by ex-Broadcom leadership), and IBM
               | RedHat's KVM (which requires you to work with IBM for
               | Professional Services).
               | 
               | At the end of the day, you as a CTO or Platform team
               | don't want to be fully OSS. Not because OSS is crap
               | software (anything but), but because a pure OSS play
               | doesn't provide you a dedicated support engineering team
               | if shit hits the fan nor SLAs and monetary compensation
               | if shit breaks.
               | 
               | This is why most OSS core companies max out revenue via a
               | Professional Services play. RedHat is a notable example
               | of this.
        
               | riemannzeta wrote:
               | I have heard this colorfully and memorably referred to as
               | "the need for a single throat to choke."
        
               | alephnerd wrote:
               | Pretty much
        
         | alephnerd wrote:
         | Broadcom's strategy is to remove sustaining engineering or
         | deprecate product lines with limited uptake by F1000 customers.
         | 
         | Also, VMWare has A LOT of fat to trim. I've worked closely with
         | teams and alumni of Broadcom/Avago, VMWare, CA Technologies,
         | and Symantec, and honestly, the cuts Broadcom does are pretty
         | reasonable.
        
           | gwbas1c wrote:
           | > VMWare has A LOT of fat to trim
           | 
           | Oh, VMware is the 2nd shortest job in my career, primarily
           | for that reason.
           | 
           | I don't want to say much in a public forum, but my best
           | lesson from working at VMware is how to sniff out an
           | incompetent engineer early in a job interview: I just ask
           | coding questions that a VMWare engineer would get wrong.
           | 
           | For example:
           | 
           | I have an engineer write some very basic manual SQL data
           | mapping code. If the candidate really pushes back, or just
           | can't figure it out, I move on.
           | 
           | I ask a question where the engineer should use an enum
           | instead of a string. If the engineer uses an enum, I move on.
        
             | alephnerd wrote:
             | I used to do that as well when I was still a SWE and then a
             | PM. VMWare has good talent (when I first became a PM a long
             | time ago, I was mentored by a very smart VMWare PM alum),
             | but it also has a lot of empire building (when I first
             | became a SWE a large portion of my management was VMWare EM
             | alumni who weren't that impressive).
             | 
             | Also, a lot of their early management feel like one hit
             | wonders in my experience working with them.
             | 
             | It reminds me of how PANW was before Arora joined and
             | cleaned house, and Symantec/CA before Broadcom cleaned
             | house.
        
               | FireBeyond wrote:
               | > Also, a lot of their early management feel like one hit
               | wonders in my experience working with them.
               | 
               | And many of those one hits were ideas crafted and handed
               | to them for implementation (still valuable and
               | important), but left to distill ideas on their own? Not
               | so much.
        
             | throwaway5959 wrote:
             | > I ask a question where the engineer should use an enum
             | instead of a string. If the engineer uses an enum, I move
             | on.
             | 
             | I'm confused by this. You're saying you move on if the
             | engineer uses an enum as you would expect?
        
               | akira2501 wrote:
               | Incompetent managers seem to love shorthand "competency"
               | tests like this.
        
               | gamblor956 wrote:
               | You're not confused. As the OP indicated, he was once a
               | VMWare engineer, so he gets his own questions wrong.
        
             | FirmwareBurner wrote:
             | _> I have an engineer write some very basic manual SQL data
             | mapping code._
             | 
             | Do people usually have the SQL language so well memorized
             | that they can pull it out of their head on command? I swear
             | to god I'm not the only engineer who regularly goes to the
             | cheat sheet.
        
               | SoftTalker wrote:
               | As with any language, developers who use SQL a lot do
               | memorize it. Maybe not every bit of it but all the
               | commonly used bits. I used to write SQL and PL/SQL every
               | day at work and I got to the point where I rarely needed
               | to consult the manual.
        
               | FirmwareBurner wrote:
               | _> As with any language, developers who use SQL a lot do
               | memorize it. _
               | 
               | If you're hiring for a SQL developer I guess it makes
               | sense, buit I use SQL about once every 6-12 months or so,
               | so if you hit me with SQL queries on the spot I'll fail
               | your interview for sure.
               | 
               | Honestly, I find interviews that revolve around
               | memorizing and regurgitating some programing language
               | syntax trivia a bit shit.
               | 
               | Wouldn't it be better testing for critical thinking and
               | problem solving skills instead of shit people google
               | anyway?
        
               | SoftTalker wrote:
               | If you're not hiring a SQL developer I agree it doesn't
               | make sense to ask them memory questions about SQL. But it
               | does make sense to ask them memory questions about
               | whatever it is they claim to know. A developer who has to
               | google the basics is not going to be very good at problem
               | solving.
        
               | cmrdporcupine wrote:
               | People doing whiteboard coding should not have to get the
               | syntax 100% (or even 80%) correct. It should be enough to
               | just show conceptual understanding of what kinds of
               | syntactical elements and concepts are present in the
               | language. When I trained for giving interviews @ Google,
               | this was emphasized, at least. It's not about getting the
               | syntax exactly right, it's about getting the algorithm
               | right. Though obviously if someone is getting something
               | fundamental wrong, it raises eyebrows.
               | 
               | If I were interviewing for database/SQL work, I'd be
               | personally probing around understanding of the relational
               | data model, not specifics of SQL syntax. How would you
               | model this table? What's a join? What's normalization?
               | What's wrong, conceptually, with the following schema?
               | etc
        
               | bluGill wrote:
               | When I give coding interviews I often jump in with "it
               | doesn't compile because you forgot the semicolon at". The
               | tools we use don't make it easy for me to fix such
               | mistakes and it doesn't pay to waste their time to search
               | out a mistake I (as an observer) already happened to know
               | - I want to see their algorithm work so we can move on
               | (or see how they debug why it isn't working yet depending
               | on what phase we are in). I don't really care how long it
               | takes you to find that missing semicolon - we all make
               | that mistake once in a while and there isn't much to
               | learn from it.
        
               | rf15 wrote:
               | I have to use SQL like 1-3 times a month and can confirm
               | that the syntactic inconsistencies of the language make
               | me go to the cheat sheet regularly.
        
               | JeremyNT wrote:
               | > _Do people usually have the SQL language so well
               | memorized that they can pull it out of their head on
               | command? I swear to god I 'm not the only engineer who
               | regularly goes to the cheat sheet._
               | 
               | I think the key insight for you here is that there are
               | many jobs where the _only_ technical skill used is SQL.
               | You probably _should_ know this stuff like the back of
               | your hand for such roles. Old, slow moving, large
               | companies have _many_ people doing this sort of work.
               | 
               | Contrast with a generic "developer" at some startup who
               | uses SQL as only one part of much larger and more complex
               | applications.
               | 
               | As a "developer" you have to deal with so much obscure
               | syntax in your life (actual programming languages,
               | shells, dockerfiles, kubernetes yaml, helm, god knows how
               | many 3rd party APIs, ci/cd definitions, other rando
               | DSLs...) that you won't be able to keep everything in
               | working memory.
        
               | vel0city wrote:
               | Any time I've participated in a technical interview as an
               | interviewer we've had the candidate have full access to a
               | computer and web browser.
               | 
               | I don't expect everyone to have everything memorized or
               | get it right on the first try, but if you don't even know
               | what questions to ask or what resources to confer with,
               | I'm usually concerned if the candidate will be a good
               | fit. The candidate can't be expected to instantly warp to
               | the solution but they need to show they can begin to find
               | the path.
        
             | stillwithit wrote:
             | As an EE, when someone explains they need SQL, all the
             | other hallucinated semantic handlebars to compute, I move
             | on.
             | 
             | Abacus, slide rule, grid paper, mechanical pencil, or gtfo!
             | 
             | IT is data librarian work. I compute with raw materials of
             | reality, not 1970s semantic babble. Software as an industry
             | has a lot of fat to cut.
             | 
             | ...The argument can work from various contexts. Not the
             | flex you think it is.
        
               | adolph wrote:
               | If said candidate's whiteboard response doesn't use at
               | least two main spurving bearings, culture fit comes into
               | question.
        
             | broast wrote:
             | Unfortunately it sounds like you're filtering on things
             | that can be easily taught.
        
               | esafak wrote:
               | I think the idea is that if they don't know something
               | basic you can forget about the hard stuff.
        
             | didibus wrote:
             | Incompetent engineers and fat to trim I feel are seperate
             | issues.
             | 
             | Layoffs seem pretty bad at identifying the incompetent from
             | the competent from my experience. It seems to cut on all
             | front, you're not sure if you're left with the best or the
             | worse ones, but you saved a lot of payroll cost either way.
             | 
             | Or if you try to handicap teams by understaffing them, even
             | competent engineers will need to reduce the quality of
             | their output. This is when fat is trimmed in a bad way,
             | where instead of getting rid of low ROI
             | venture/projects/services/products and focus on the
             | important, you just tighten the budgets accross the board
             | for example.
        
           | Icathian wrote:
           | I can't speak for the whole org, but my small corner of
           | VMware got cut far more than was reasonable. We already ran
           | very lean, and with the losses there will be no new features
           | on our product for a very long time, if ever. Best we can
           | hope for is maintenance unless they're planning to staff back
           | up down the line (they're not).
        
             | alephnerd wrote:
             | > Best we can hope for is maintenance
             | 
             | This is probably what's going to happen. Companies like
             | Broadcom and PANW want pretty high margins on their product
             | lines, so they're pretty mercenary in getting it done.
             | 
             | If you got an offer letter, you should probably survive if
             | you can justify your value over the next few months (in my
             | experience w/ M&A)
        
               | Icathian wrote:
               | I got an offer letter, but I've already got an offer
               | elsewhere and will be leaving shortly. I'm not interested
               | in picking up the pieces of the mess they've made. It
               | just makes me very sad, my team was amazing and deserved
               | better.
        
               | alephnerd wrote:
               | Yep. If I was in your shoes I'd leave as well. If you got
               | a very competitive stock grant, that means they really
               | want you. If not, best to leave elsewhere.
        
         | redwood wrote:
         | Have you seen evidence that it's a thing? I've seen evidence of
         | it being a useful threat, just as multi-cloud is. The company
         | that most publicly "did it" ended up plateauing as they stopped
         | innovating on anything other than that backend migration and
         | plus they likely would have gotten the cost they looked for
         | from the hyperscalers if they'd continued to negotiate. But
         | maybe I'm missing something?
        
           | DaiPlusPlus wrote:
           | > Have you seen evidence that it's a thing?
           | 
           | Only anecdotally - though the stuff I've seen is more about
           | undoing the mistake of letting _anyone_ at the company run-up
           | massive bills on cloud-only big-data-processing (CosmosDB,
           | Data Lake, etc).
           | 
           | The only other "repatriation" movement I've seen are orgs who
           | got burned by limitations and glitches in things like
           | OneDrive/GoogleDrive - again, this doesn't really come under
           | VMware's remit.
        
             | FireBeyond wrote:
             | The other big thing to realize is that for VMware, and Red
             | Hat (I used to work on the OpenShift team) is that cloud
             | might be big, but our last estimates were that 80% of our
             | workloads and capacity were on-prem/hybrid, not cloud.
        
           | AmericanChopper wrote:
           | I've had the pleasure of contracting on a cloud migration
           | project, and then a little while later an on-prem migration
           | for the same project. I helped that company build a cost
           | model for comparing their on-prem and cloud workloads, and
           | they ended up moving quite a bit back on-prem. Even for the
           | workloads they didn't move, having a better way of comparing
           | on-prem and cloud TCOs helped them negotiate much better
           | pricing for their remaining cloud workloads.
           | 
           | One legitimate challenge is that it's actually rather
           | difficult to measure the TCO of each option. I've seen
           | companies pushed to get better at that as they experience
           | cloud sticker shock, and as large enterprise pushes more and
           | more work to the cloud, I'd expect to see them continue to
           | improve in this area.
        
         | gwbas1c wrote:
         | > cloud repatriation
         | 
         | You can repatriate VMWare VMs from someone else's datacenter to
         | your datacenter. You might even be able to do it with little
         | downtime. (I vaguely remember that VMWare has 0-downtime
         | movement of a VM among physical hardware.)
        
           | woleium wrote:
           | its called vmotion iirc, and it costs more money than we had
           | when i looked at it
        
           | auspiv wrote:
           | vMotion. works great
        
           | nolist_policy wrote:
           | There's nothing special about live migration, really. The
           | major implementations (VMWare, Hyper-V, KVM/Qemu, Xen, ...)
           | support it for a long time, including shared-nothing
           | migration.
        
         | scarface_74 wrote:
         | Do you have any evidence that this happening besides random
         | anecdotes?
        
       | ReptileMan wrote:
       | In my low labor cost neck of the woods VMware employ a lot of
       | people. I wonder if they will pick up hiring and shift work from
       | US/UK here or will decimate the current offices too. Or both and
       | work current people here to the bone. It's broadcom after all.
        
       | givemeethekeys wrote:
       | Acquiring and gutting is the Broadcom way.
        
         | outside1234 wrote:
         | But this isn't semiconductors.
         | 
         | This will just end up with Microsoft taking all of their
         | customers away.
        
           | stackskipton wrote:
           | As former admin of both, HyperV is nowhere near as good as
           | VMware ESXi offering. Also, switching Hypervisors at F1000 is
           | such a massive project that no risk adverse manager is going
           | to sign off on it.
           | 
           | I've been at F1000 with ESXi clusters, they had 20 racks full
           | of blades/switches/SANs that made up 4000 core cluster. They
           | will ride or die ESXi no matter how hard VMware screws them
           | over.
        
             | NewJazz wrote:
             | Middle management is getting squeezed in a lot of firms.
             | Risk averse management won't cut it, IMO.
        
             | bluGill wrote:
             | Today... However if Microsoft (or someone unknown) works
             | hard for a while they can build a more compelling offering
             | and get F1000 to switch over the next 10-20 years.
        
               | stackskipton wrote:
               | Sure but until then, they can squeeze the hell out of
               | F1000s.
               | 
               | Problem with creating competitive offering is F1000 are
               | not going to take risk on you. Last thing CIO wants to
               | remember for is someone who greenlit moving core
               | infrastructure to product that went under. They also need
               | to provide decent support so startup today has about 15
               | years before they even think of breaking into this
               | market.
               | 
               | So it's got to be a major player like Microsoft who seems
               | to not care about this market because Azure. Nutanix is
               | there but they are all in hyperconverged meaning
               | traditional compute/storage separated hardware would have
               | to be thrown out. Red Hat exited in 2020. So I don't see
               | a competitor on the horizon.
        
           | The_Colonel wrote:
           | That's like saying all Oracle customers are leaving for
           | Postgres. VMWare moat is deep.
        
       | mobilio wrote:
       | Link:
       | 
       | https://archive.md/V9Y67
        
       | deburo wrote:
       | Cost cutting or killing a competitor (does they own another
       | virtual host company?)?
        
         | alephnerd wrote:
         | Broadcom is almost 50% Hardware and 50% Enterprise SaaS (CA
         | Technologies' APM product line, Symantec's EPP product line,
         | and now VMWare's entire private cloud product line) by revenue.
         | 
         | I wouldn't be surprised if Broadcom did this acquisition in
         | order to pull of a HP/HPE type split. Broadcom alumni did a
         | similar thing with Citrix, TIBCO, and NetScaler merging into
         | the "Cloud Security Group"
        
       | cbsks wrote:
       | I interviewed at VMware a couple of years ago. Bullet dodged!
        
         | geodel wrote:
         | I think they allow(ed) permanent remote positions. For someone
         | who care (like me!) it maybe worth quite a bit. So far I am
         | stuck with this RTO mandate in most places.
        
           | brcmthrowaway wrote:
           | Have you found public companies with generous stock comp that
           | allow full remote?
        
             | chihuahua wrote:
             | Depending on what exactly qualifies as "generous":
             | ZipRecruiter, GE Healthcare, Cloudflare, Atlassian.
        
         | chihuahua wrote:
         | I interviewed there a few weeks ago. They mentioned the pending
         | acquisition, and said they had been trying to fill as many
         | positions as possible before that event. They would continue
         | interviewing candidates, but if they wanted to make an offer,
         | that offer would have to wait until after the acquisition
         | completed.
         | 
         | I found a job elsewhere in the meantime, so it's not relevant
         | to me anymore.
        
       | outside1234 wrote:
       | Probably going to lose the other half promptly as well to be
       | honest. I mean, seriously, who wants to work for Broadcom?
        
         | jsdwarf wrote:
         | There are golden handcuffs called RSUs, shares that are
         | distributed to employees over a longer period of time. The
         | longer you stay, the more shares you get ;-)
        
         | natbennett wrote:
         | I know a surprising number of people who hope that Broadcom
         | will be better managed than VMware and that it'll be easier to
         | get good work done there. Mostly folks who came into VMware
         | through acquisitions and then had layers and layers of VMware
         | management piled on top of them.
        
         | uxp8u61q wrote:
         | About 20,000 people according to Wikipedia...
        
         | brcmthrowaway wrote:
         | BRCM comp is about 50% stock, and the stock has been a runaway
         | hit in the last few years. So a lot of people.
         | 
         | They also gave crazy 4 years of RSU grants in one hit right
         | before COVID.
        
       | natbennett wrote:
       | Is this reporting that Broadcom is implementing the layoffs that
       | were announced through the offer letter process? Or are they
       | laying off people who they already gave an offer letter?
        
         | x3n0ph3n3 wrote:
         | People who were not given an offer letter.
        
       | HenryBemis wrote:
       | Reading the dear John letter it reminded me of two of the
       | companies I worked in the past that wanted to reduce their staff,
       | and they were looking for volunteers. In both cases I found
       | better AND god a very decent payout. I understand that someone in
       | their late 50s may not see this as a blessing, but imagine
       | getting another job and a 15% raise and 5-10-20 salaries (gross)
       | in your pocket (as a great sign-off bonus). I see this a free
       | money!
        
         | ghaff wrote:
         | Or someone in their late 50s might be ready to retire (or work
         | part-time independently) for the right buyout offer.
        
           | bluGill wrote:
           | I know I'm hoping that in my late 50s / early 60s my company
           | goes through a round of voluntary layoffs. It remains to be
           | seen how good my 401k and other retirement plans do over the
           | years in between - I can't afford to retire today, but there
           | is a good chance that by 60 I could do so. Having see several
           | relatives die at 64-65 recently I'm not interested in working
           | longer (family history suggests overall I'll have an average
           | lifespan: 78-79 - but the normal bell curves start showing
           | death at 64 is not an outlier)
        
       | bdcravens wrote:
       | In related news, water is still wet.
        
       | factlogic wrote:
       | It also has to be reported that those who are staying as a part
       | of the newly formed Vmware (under broadcom) has been offered a
       | very lucrative and generous pay packages and welcome grants .
       | Especially at levels 5 and above it reaches close to a million
       | dollars of RSU . This is in addition to existing VMware stock
       | that employees have.
        
         | alephnerd wrote:
         | Yep. Broadcom pays Google level but with much less fat and
         | demanding an AWS style work ethic.
        
       | vkdelta wrote:
       | they might as well add NCNR (No Cancellation, No Return) and
       | million dollars engagement NREs while they are at it.
       | 
       | if you have BRCM as your key supplier, you better plan to keep
       | them for life as otherwise.
        
       | nerdjon wrote:
       | First, question:
       | 
       | > Several top VMware executives have left the cloud-computing
       | company over the past year.
       | 
       | Since when is VMWare a "cloud-computing" company?
       | 
       | I am now reaching out to friends to see if everyone is ok, this
       | sucks. I don't really get doing layoffs as soon as the
       | acquisition finishes. Wouldn't you first expect that people are
       | going to leave just due to them being bought and then do
       | additional cuts if necessary after that?
       | 
       | I feel like that has always been the strategy with acquisitions
       | minus redundancy like HR.
       | 
       | Otherwise this is a big moral hit, first being bought and then an
       | acquisition at the same time? Who would stay after that?
        
         | ultrarunner wrote:
         | > Since when is VMWare a "cloud-computing" company?
         | 
         | I think most VPS hosting providers are running on VMWare.
         | Whether that counts as "the cloud" or not is up to you, but
         | virtualization within datacenter is pretty standard.
         | 
         | For what it's worth, every experience I've ever had with
         | Broadcom in the embedded space has been negative. So this came
         | initially as a disappointment, and now I'm disheartened to see
         | my expectations were accurate.
        
           | redundantly wrote:
           | > I think most VPS hosting providers are running on VMWare.
           | 
           | This is highly unlikely. VMware is too expensive for a VPS
           | provider to achieve profitability.
        
             | refulgentis wrote:
             | It seems highly unlikely they're not successful and selling
             | for $64 billion. I don't get it either :/
        
               | brianwawok wrote:
               | F500 companies are paying them millions in licenses to
               | save 10x their hardware cost.
        
           | depereo wrote:
           | I don't know if it's 'most' but there's plenty of large
           | private-cloud B2B setups offering vm-as-a-service / esxi-as-
           | a-service or something frontended by vmware cloud director.
           | Definitely to the tune of billions of annual revenue
           | worldwide.
        
         | alwaysrunning wrote:
         | >I don't really get doing layoffs as soon as the acquisition
         | finishes.
         | 
         | Planning layoffs is typically part of the M&A process, so when
         | it completes, they typically already know who is going to be
         | let go and drop the axe at that point.
        
           | alephnerd wrote:
           | The people making the cutting decisions are also a removed
           | from individual IC level visibility. These cuts are often
           | done based on financial metrics per product line.
           | 
           | You could be an amazing engineer and have a well engineered
           | product, but still get laid off because the product didn't
           | get market traction.
           | 
           | I've been on both sides of the equation. It sucks but such is
           | life sadly.
        
             | gitfan86 wrote:
             | And ability doesn't fit in the spreadsheet they use to
             | calculate their target profitability.
             | 
             | They are going to cut expenses by 40% and increase costs of
             | their products by 20%.
        
               | bluGill wrote:
               | That is the point of lay offs. They are not saying you
               | are bad they are saying they don't need someone in your
               | position.
               | 
               | sometimes a company will let managers in a different
               | department that is hiring know about coming lay offs and
               | ask/force them to take good people. this is rare though.
        
               | alephnerd wrote:
               | > sometimes a company will let managers in a different
               | department that is hiring know about coming lay offs and
               | ask/force them to take good people. this is rare though.
               | 
               | Depends on the kind of layoff. If it's strategic M&A
               | related this happens fairly often. If it's purely a cost
               | cutting hail mary, then not as much.
        
           | comprev wrote:
           | There's probably some legal loophole by which _technically_
           | the employees have a contract with a new company after the
           | merge, since their old employer no longer exists on paper.
           | 
           | This means employees get let go with legal bare minimum
           | compensation and have little (if any) legal position to fight
           | back.
           | 
           | Immoral but not illegal.
        
             | umanwizard wrote:
             | In the U.S. (where VMware is based), virtually all jobs can
             | fire you for no reason at will. Contractually guaranteed
             | jobs are rare.
        
             | hn_throwaway_99 wrote:
             | > This means employees get let go with legal bare minimum
             | compensation and have little (if any) legal position to
             | fight back.
             | 
             | I don't know what country you're posting this from, but in
             | the US none of this matters, and it does not apply. When
             | someone is let go there is no "legal bare minimum
             | compensation." There are some notice requirements (e.g. the
             | WARN act), and many companies will pay out compensation in
             | lieu of notice if the WARN act applies, but an acquisition
             | makes no difference to these notice requirements.
        
               | comprev wrote:
               | In the UK we do have some protections depending on length
               | of time with the company. There is some framework for
               | redundancy payments.
               | 
               | The US culture of "at will employment" (i.e fire you on
               | the spot for little reason) gives me anxiety and I don't
               | even live there!
        
               | bluGill wrote:
               | There are pros and cons. The ability to lay someone off
               | quickly means someone in the US can risk hiring a bunch
               | of people on a risky bet - if/when they give up on the
               | project they can let the people go and cut their losses.
               | Some of those risky bets pay off though and the people
               | are not laid off.
               | 
               | Note that I said lay off not fire above. There is an
               | important legal difference.
        
               | brianwawok wrote:
               | Sure is nice when you hire a bad employee
        
               | olliej wrote:
               | sure is nice when you have a bad employer
        
         | jabroni_salad wrote:
         | vmware is very popular in the private IAAS space. If you have
         | special legal requirements but are too small a fish for the big
         | players to spend time catering to, this is where you end up.
         | IAAS operators that are competent at operations and business
         | logic but not necessarily having the engineering talent needed
         | to run a kvm fleet.
        
         | natbennett wrote:
         | They sell the tools to build private clouds.
        
         | hello_moto wrote:
         | VMWare is used in the cloud as an alternative option from
         | docker container.
         | 
         | VMWare is also diving into K8S space, I'm sure they have some
         | sort of "managed" service offering that bundles their K8S
         | solution.
         | 
         | VMWare owns Spring Framework... that's a cloud toolkit.
        
           | dilyevsky wrote:
           | Vmware bought heptio and with that things like their managed
           | control plane (a la Google's Anthos) and other k8s stuff. I
           | think most of those folks are gone now though
        
             | natbennett wrote:
             | The headline folks from Heptio are gone but the products
             | and staff are still there. They've gotten a lot of internal
             | transfers from other parts of VMware.
        
           | rf15 wrote:
           | Thanks for pointing out the Spring connection... I wonder how
           | that will impact their development.
        
         | IshKebab wrote:
         | > Since when is VMWare a "cloud-computing" company?
         | 
         | That's like 90% of what they do now.
         | 
         | They actually make that really clear with little cloud icons on
         | the "Product" menu on their homepage.
        
       | nektro wrote:
       | when will these layoffs stop?
        
         | gnicholas wrote:
         | When morale improves.
        
         | Ancalagon wrote:
         | Probably not until interest rates come down or plateau for a
         | long time at the least.
         | 
         | Arguably this layoff was more because of the merger though and
         | less because of the economy at broad.
        
         | HDThoreaun wrote:
         | When tech companies get back to pre pandemic staffing levels?
        
       | calderwoodra wrote:
       | My friend has been feeding me information about the acquisition
       | for almost a year now.
       | 
       | They work at VMware and they knew about the layoffs months ago.
       | Apparently another layoff is coming in 3 months or so with a
       | better package and my friend was estatic to make it past this
       | round and to be included in the next round.
        
       | gsich wrote:
       | Broadcom will ruin it. Nothing good comes out of that company.
        
       | trhway wrote:
       | Here at Palo Alto campus Broadcom over the weekend covered the
       | VMWare logos at the campus entry points with cloth sheaths with
       | the Broadcom logos. Looks cheap and rushed. Sound like what I
       | heard about Broadcom :)
        
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