[HN Gopher] Pinecone Open-Sources AWS Reference Architecture wit...
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       Pinecone Open-Sources AWS Reference Architecture with Pulumi
        
       Author : zackproser
       Score  : 61 points
       Date   : 2023-11-27 17:26 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.pinecone.io)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.pinecone.io)
        
       | manojlds wrote:
       | Sounds silly to go to a vector DB vendor to get reference
       | architecture for my app where it will only be a small part of my
       | app.
        
         | CharlesW wrote:
         | I believe the point is that you can leverage the reference
         | architecture for that small part of your app.
        
           | zackproser wrote:
           | Yes - this and to make it easier to understand how you'd use
           | Pinecone at scale.
           | 
           | We get a lot of feedback that our many open-source Jupyter
           | notebooks (github.com/pinecone-io/examples) are very helpful
           | for learning new techniques and understanding how patterns
           | work - even for starting new applications.
           | 
           | However, we're also often asked how to go from Notebook to
           | prod. The Reference Architecture is a step in the direction
           | of making this easier and more clear.
        
       | whalesalad wrote:
       | The massive (and contextually irrelevant) AI generated images
       | every other paragraph remind me of setting line spacing to 2.2 in
       | order to hit the minimum number of pages for your school essay.
        
         | zackproser wrote:
         | Thanks for the feedback!
        
           | isoprophlex wrote:
           | The massive paragraph heading size compared to the text
           | itself doesn't do the readability a whole lot of good,
           | either.
        
         | cdchn wrote:
         | Most of the text felt AI generated as well.
        
           | zackproser wrote:
           | Interesting! I can assure you none of the text was auto-
           | generated. I've written before about how I don't like having
           | text generated for me.
           | 
           | I do use Grammarly for editing assistance when I'm writing
           | something for work.
        
             | _a_a_a_ wrote:
             | Appreciated, but 16+ MB of images - there was no need given
             | ~4K of text. That's a 4,000 times bloat. Please,
             | professional devs don't need this. Just give us the info.
        
               | zackproser wrote:
               | I appreciate the feedback, but we may need to agree to
               | disagree on this one :)
               | 
               | As a professional dev, I enjoy articles with eye candy
               | and AI-generated images, especially those with a pixel-
               | art bent make me happy.
        
               | nacs wrote:
               | Except for the first image which is a human-made
               | schematic, the rest of the images are filler and serve
               | almost 0 purpose.
               | 
               | At the very least they should have been sized down to 30%
               | of their size and have the text flow around it instead of
               | putting so many full-width images.
        
         | paulddraper wrote:
         | Don't forget to bump up those page margins.
        
         | quickthrower2 wrote:
         | They are the new cat images, borat jokes and rick rolling.
        
         | ryoshu wrote:
         | The isometric architecture diagram is hard to read as well.
        
       | candiddevmike wrote:
       | As someone interested in kicking the tires of VectorDBs, where
       | does Pinecone rank? Is there one that will be "future proof"?
        
         | federationfive wrote:
         | Redis is probably better suited
        
         | gk1 wrote:
         | I work for Pinecone so my bias is obvious, but objectively:
         | Pinecone is ranked as the most popular vector DB according to
         | multiple sources [1][2][3][4], the best funded ($100M Series
         | B), and is used in production by the likes of Shopify, Gong,
         | Plaid, Zapier, Midjourney, CVS, and thousands of others.
         | 
         | [1] https://retool.com/reports/state-of-ai-2023
         | 
         | [2] https://state-of-llm.streamlit.app/#third
         | 
         | [3] https://db-engines.com/en/ranking/vector+dbms
         | 
         | [4] https://www.g2.com/categories/vector-database
        
         | dmezzetti wrote:
         | Couple relatively recent HN threads that give a good overview
         | of the vector database landscape.
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36943318
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38416994
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38420554
        
         | fzliu wrote:
         | Regarding "future-proof-ness": we've been building production-
         | grade vector search since 2018 and have a number of
         | organizations running it at billion+ scale in production
         | environments. It's all open source too.
         | 
         | https://milvus.io
        
       | redwood wrote:
       | Anyone have good experience with Pulumi? The IaC space feels a
       | bit crowded
        
         | zackproser wrote:
         | I've worked with Terraform extensively, including doing a lot
         | of similar work (Reference Architectures, modules, AWS) over
         | the past several years.
         | 
         | This was my first time using Pulumi, and it was very much a
         | delight. There's clearly been a lot of thought and effort put
         | into the plugins and overall developer experience.
         | 
         | For example, you can have Pulumi handle the Docker image builds
         | for you - as well as the ECR repository logins and pushes. This
         | means that your end users don't need to manually build images,
         | log into ECR and push them - they just run `pulumi up` instead.
        
           | rtuin wrote:
           | My setup extends on this: the pulumi stack creates ECR repo,
           | IAM user+access token, adds credentials and ECR details to
           | GitHub actions secrets, and GitHub actions builds tags and
           | pushes the images to ECR when a release is (automatically)
           | tagged.
           | 
           | Pulumi is (mostly) a bliss!
        
         | Jemaclus wrote:
         | I've used Pulumi for professional projects and personal
         | projects, and I think it's fantastic. You can write your code
         | in pretty much any major language (professionally, i use
         | Python, personally I use Go), and you get the same output.
         | Running the Pulumi program itself couldn't be simpler.
         | 
         | My one critique is sort of weird in the sense that Pulumi
         | supports way more than its public documentation says. I hope
         | they up their documentation game in the future, because there
         | are a lot of things that I had to go digging through source
         | code to find out how to implement. But that's really a minor
         | nitpick in the grand scheme of things. Big Pulumi fan here.
        
           | quickthrower2 wrote:
           | I agree! Looking at the source code is invaluable. Also if
           | you use Azure, look at the generated ARM templates, for clues
           | on how to set things up where the docs are short on details.
           | It is nice they don't abstract over the ARM templates too
           | much.
        
           | cnunciato wrote:
           | Pulumi docs engineer here. Really appreciate that feedback --
           | what sort of thing did you have to go digging for? We're
           | definitely investing here so I'd love to hear more about what
           | you were looking for and didn't find (or what you discovered
           | along the way that we could've made clearer). Thanks!
        
             | rtuin wrote:
             | There are more than a few resource types lacking import
             | examples/details in the docs.
             | 
             | Other than that, for most resources I use the docs are
             | pretty good.
        
         | quickthrower2 wrote:
         | Yes Pulumi is nice. Having the power of Typescript types (if
         | you choose Typescript) is amazing.
         | 
         | The thing is I haven't used Terraform extensively so I can't
         | compare.
         | 
         | The main downsides I found are probably IaC downsides in
         | general. Such as scenarios where you need to click-ops to
         | repair because only some of the infra was deployed. I think the
         | clouds need to make their stuff IaC friendly to avoid this
         | though.
         | 
         | My main fear is taking on that dependency on something newer.
         | With Terraform if the company goes bust, the community could
         | take over, and probably it would become an Apache project.
         | Maybe Pulumi would too. It is not good enough for it to be open
         | source. It needs to keep up with the daily changes in the
         | cloud.
        
           | zackproser wrote:
           | Strong agree here - I am still keeping an open mind about
           | TypeScript - using it for frontend / Vercel web apps and
           | while maintaining open-source examples.
           | 
           | I will say it was very nice getting the type hints for
           | infrastructure while developing as well as hints about
           | something being unused, etc.
           | 
           | It overall worked better than I was probably expecting.
           | 
           | Also agree with your points on the pain of IaC - it's
           | terrific when it works but there's always those special
           | "except this resource doesn't follow any of those rules"
           | cases to make things painful and extra complex.
           | 
           | I've also found that IaC can have a chilling effect for folks
           | who haven't ever tried it before - it's a powerful
           | abstraction tool - but at the end of the day you also need
           | some level of understanding around what is happening under
           | the hood - where to debug an error (which level), etc.
        
         | kcorbitt wrote:
         | For a previous startup a couple of years ago I tried to get our
         | infra onboarded with terraform, hit a bunch of blockers,
         | switched to Pulumi, and have used it for every project big or
         | small since.
         | 
         | Hits a really nice sweet spot for me -- yes, you want your
         | infra definition to be declarative, but being able to write
         | real code in a real language (Typescript in my case) that
         | generates that declarative infra definition is exactly the
         | right level of abstraction imho.
        
       | next_xibalba wrote:
       | Pinecone's aggressive marketing here on HN is getting really old.
        
       | sabareesh wrote:
       | Other day i was trying out Azure SQL for storing vector DB. After
       | a POC i was able to get results on sub 1 second to get the
       | results with 2 core serverless instance. It begs me to reconsider
       | does dedicated Vector db really worth it ? Here is the article on
       | how to store and query vector data
       | https://devblogs.microsoft.com/azure-sql/vector-similarity-s...
        
         | beoberha wrote:
         | Ask yourself the same question about an OLAP system. Once
         | you're at a large enough scale, it makes sense to use tools
         | custom designed for your access patterns.
         | 
         | I work on Azure SQL, but it's pretty clear that this is a cool
         | demo. It may scale for some usages, but I wouldn't build a
         | production system on it.
        
           | sabareesh wrote:
           | Well tried it with ~ 34 million records , which is good
           | enough sample for our usecase
        
           | bob1029 wrote:
           | > Azure SQL
           | 
           | > large enough scale
           | 
           | You mean something like the Hyperscale service tier? This is
           | what we are building our new products on top of.
        
         | weberer wrote:
         | >After a POC i was able to get results on sub 1 second to get
         | the results with 2 core serverless instance
         | 
         | Is that good or bad?
        
           | sabareesh wrote:
           | ~ 34 million embeddings , Seems this is a good enough sample
           | for our use case.
        
       | Dowwie wrote:
       | Now THAT is developer advocacy-- a reference architecture and a
       | complete video series. I'm intrigued by the fact that Typescript
       | was chosen for this work. Are you finding that clients are
       | rolling out ML architectures based on Typescript microservices?
        
         | zackproser wrote:
         | Thanks so much for your support
         | 
         | We are finding that JavaScript is an often overlooked language
         | for working in AI:
         | 
         | https://www.pinecone.io/learn/javascript-ai/
         | 
         | There's also a very nice synergy between using a language like
         | JavaScript (many are familiar enough to read through and
         | understand what's happening) and the type safety that
         | TypeScript introduces.
         | 
         | We are seeing a lot of interest in working with Typescript
         | hence why many of our examples are TypeScript applications.
        
       | dvfjsdhgfv wrote:
       | Why is this on the main page? Just a few paragraphs of text with
       | autogenerated images, and the contents feels like LLM-generated,
       | too.
        
         | zackproser wrote:
         | Thanks for your question!
         | 
         | The images were generated via DALL-E - so they're not
         | technically "autogenerated". They were created using a
         | generative model, however.
         | 
         | The content itself definitely was not generated by an LLM -
         | although that feels like a low-effort comment =/ What in
         | particular felt LLM-generated to you?
         | 
         | I think this is on the main page because being able to set 3
         | environment variables and run `pulumi up` to get to a
         | production-ready system in your own AWS account, without having
         | to purchase anything, is a massive time-saver for anyone with a
         | high-scale use cases that wants to use Pinecone's vector
         | database.
        
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       (page generated 2023-11-27 23:01 UTC)