[HN Gopher] Several piracy-related arrests spark fears of high-l...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Several piracy-related arrests spark fears of high-level crackdown
        
       Author : gslin
       Score  : 117 points
       Date   : 2023-11-27 16:56 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (torrentfreak.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (torrentfreak.com)
        
       | MyFirstSass wrote:
       | I'm from the region and every regular person pays for streaming
       | these days, especially youngsters.
       | 
       | I've searched for content on danish trackers once, for content
       | that wasn't on any services, and i think a few people use it for
       | that, ie. fans or film buffs.
       | 
       | Often whole seasons are removed, content jumps around, or stuff
       | just disappears forever even if you've paid for it.
       | 
       | So this operation seems very excessive.
       | 
       | Maybe there's an active strategy to remove old stuff to keep
       | people interested in the newer?
       | 
       | Either way this weird cultural goldfish-memory is tragic. There's
       | so much out there not on streaming these days.
        
         | ptek wrote:
         | I can understand people wanting to share rare local stuff which
         | would be otherwise harder to find. In New Zealand even though
         | tvnz has streaming, all the older material still hasn't been
         | digitised.
        
       | ptek wrote:
       | I think back in the Amiga days the major groups were Trilogy and
       | Paradox late 80s-92
        
       | oldpersonintx wrote:
       | can you imagine going to prison over dreck like Indiana
       | Jones:Dial Of Destiny or The Marvels?
        
         | stuckinhell wrote:
         | I'm fairly certain many executives believe those movies failed
         | due to piracy.
        
         | baz00 wrote:
         | The Marvels failed because it was vomitus garbage
        
         | Aaronstotle wrote:
         | I think any person who saw The Marvels trailer could have told
         | you that movie was going to bomb.
        
           | kyriakos wrote:
           | They released multiple trailers hinting to come back of older
           | characters and yet it bombed. It wasn't just the plot in this
           | case but the characters didn't have neither the star power
           | behind nor the coherence that characters like iron man and
           | captain america had.
           | 
           | Marvel movies kept upping the stakes with every movie
           | reaching the point where it makes no sense why other
           | superheroes don't join in to help. For example where were the
           | avengers during the events of The Eternals?
        
         | ghaff wrote:
         | You can never go home again, so to speak, to watch the first
         | Indiana Jones film cold. But Last Crusade and Dial of Destiny
         | were IMO perfectly good (though not great) films.
        
       | typon wrote:
       | I wanted to watch a special by my favourite comedian Stewart Lee.
       | It's only available on BBC iPlayer and most VPNs I have tried
       | don't seem to work with it. Is it really unethical for me to
       | torrent that special that I literally can't pay for even if I
       | wanted to? Information wants to get out (almost like a gas), and
       | as long as it's suppressed, torrenting will remain relevant.
        
         | WendyTheWillow wrote:
         | Yes, it is unethical to pirate content you don't own the rights
         | to.
         | 
         | The problem comes from the false belief of entitlement to the
         | media. The common argument that it's the "only way" to obey
         | certain content forgets the alternative, which is to not
         | consume that content.
         | 
         | You aren't entitled to watch what you want.
         | 
         | Obviously this is closer to "littering" than it is to murder,
         | but technically it's unethical.
        
           | Dylan16807 wrote:
           | That depends on what you think the purpose of copyright is.
        
           | A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote:
           | Humans are exceedingly adept at determining fairness and
           | adjust their own actions to match fairness levels[1]. If you
           | pay for something and becomes unavailable, because someone
           | else messed up and effectively lowered the value of your
           | purchase[2], there is a simple argument to be made that maybe
           | lack of ethics on one side is almost negligible when compared
           | to that of a multimillion faceless conglomerate. In other
           | words, it may be unethical, but it is hard for me to argue
           | that it is not warranted.
           | 
           | [1]https://www.apa.org/news/podcasts/speaking-of-
           | psychology/fai... [2]https://www.polygon.com/2018/4/27/172928
           | 36/gta-4-soundtrack-...
        
           | graphe wrote:
           | >Yes, it is unethical to pirate content you don't own the
           | rights to.
           | 
           | If I'm not entitled to media, why are they entitled to have
           | no 'piracy' with digital technology? If you decide to spread
           | information, don't be surprised if it spreads.
        
           | hotnfresh wrote:
           | The ethical distance between this and littering is about as
           | large as the one between littering and murder, though.
           | 
           | If it's unethical, it's somewhere around running a stoplight
           | that's plainly not registering your presence and hasn't
           | turned for ten full minutes, with perfect straight mile-long
           | views either way and not a car or person in sight. Not really
           | unethical at all.
        
             | WendyTheWillow wrote:
             | I like the littering analogy because it's a kind of
             | tragedy-of-the-commons problem. If _everyone_ pirated,
             | clearly there 'd be a problem around capitalistic
             | incentives for making intellectual property, similarly to
             | how if _everyone_ littered, there 'd be a problem around
             | environmental cleanliness.
             | 
             | But I don't think most people would argue that everyone
             | should pirate IP.
             | 
             | That's a good follow-up question though; for those who
             | believe pirating is ethical, do you a) believe everyone
             | should pirate, and b) if not, what makes your pirating
             | acceptable but other pirating unacceptable?
        
               | Dylan16807 wrote:
               | Weren't we talking about the situation where there's no
               | way to buy? Piracy there isn't going to undermine the
               | incentive to create.
               | 
               | If everyone litters in public areas where trash cans are
               | reasonable to expect, but have not been installed, a
               | likely and good outcome is that trash cans get installed.
               | (But in a more accurate analogy, the trash cans would
               | cost negative money to install!)
        
               | WendyTheWillow wrote:
               | That's a problem, however, because it presumes an
               | entitlement to content. Maybe there _is_ no way to buy,
               | and that 's on purpose. You don't have an inherent right
               | to consume content; that ought to be up to the owner of
               | that content, even if they decide to arbitrarily limit
               | access to their content.
               | 
               | It's up to them, and when you take that decision away
               | from them, you commit an immoral act.
        
               | zlg_codes wrote:
               | > That's a good follow-up question though; for those who
               | believe pirating is ethical, do you a) believe everyone
               | should pirate, and b) if not, what makes your pirating
               | acceptable but other pirating unacceptable?
               | 
               | Pirating something, I see as gaining access to something
               | when the official or preferred channel is either
               | unreasonably expensive, or the product itself is unknown.
               | 
               | Piracy is an effective way to _try before you buy_ , at
               | your own pace. On one hand, sure, once you pirate
               | something you don't _need_ to buy it, but my own dabbling
               | has resulted in MORE purchase activity, not less. I could
               | buy games or movies or shows knowing I would enjoy them
               | and be satisfied with my purchase.
               | 
               | There were totally games and whatnot that I downloaded,
               | tried, and then ignored or deleted. Was anyone really
               | damaged by that? I see that as the equivalent of window
               | shopping. It's what you do after you try it that forms
               | the ethical stance, in my opinion.
               | 
               | Are you a struggling student pirating AfterEffects or
               | something else so you can earn money and then buy a real
               | copy? Some might say that's ethical pirating because
               | there's an intent to be legit about it but there are
               | obstacles. "Don't buy or get it" one might say, and
               | forever lock themselves out of opportunity.
               | 
               | Choosing to keep a pirated version of something is as
               | much a social and political commentary as it is a
               | technical violation of monopoly. Someone who can afford
               | something they pirated, that they liked and kept, may be
               | seen as a cheapskate.
               | 
               | But honestly, there are many games and music albums and
               | shows I would never have tried out if I didn't have an
               | easy and accessible means to just give'em a whirl.
               | 
               | So you could say I see no harm in "explorative" piracy,
               | or pirating that then gets deleted when you find out you
               | don't like it. In the rights-owner's world, that person
               | should be out money, and disappointed in their purchase!
               | Seems like more moral harm than making sure you like what
               | you're buying.
        
               | WendyTheWillow wrote:
               | The problem with that is, of course, the lack of consent
               | from the property owner. This is the "entitlement
               | problem"; the options are not listed by asking, "How will
               | I obtain this content?" they're listed by asking, "How
               | will the content provider allow me to consume their
               | content?" Sometimes, the answer is, "There is no way to
               | consume this content."
               | 
               | If the owner of AfterEffects doesn't _want_ to allow
               | students to use their software, that 's their right as
               | the property owner. Students have _no_ entitlement to
               | that software. Violating the owner 's property rights is
               | an immoral act.
        
               | zlg_codes wrote:
               | And business has no entitlement to profit. Business
               | models do not have to be respected, they must be
               | validated through market success. And the intellectual
               | property model is invalid. Copying an idea does not rob
               | another person of that idea.
               | 
               | "But it's law", I don't care, law is religion for the
               | ruling class and judges are essentially priests. They
               | work on _doctrine_ , adjacent to _indoctrination_. They
               | operate with the attitude that the judge, and by
               | extension the state, can do no wrong. That 's already
               | operating from a place of moral invalidity.
               | 
               | If I shared something to the world, even under license,
               | and people copied it endlessly, I'd be told that I have
               | _personal responsibility_ , and _what did I expect to
               | happen_ when I shared. Victim blaming, essentially.
               | 
               | But the moment it's a business, the moment money's
               | involved, suddenly we aren't entitled to anything and
               | business deserves every last dollar they can squeeze.
               | 
               | The understanding is flipped. Businesses are second class
               | entities to citizens. They deserve no more consideration
               | than an individual, and indeed already enjoy too many
               | privileges they've done nothing to earn.
               | 
               | They aren't entitled to money.
        
               | garfij wrote:
               | Following the example from the original comment, I would
               | argue that if the content is otherwise unavailable for
               | purchase or rent, then yes, it is ethical for anyone and
               | everyone to pirate it.
               | 
               | Conversely it is unethical to retain the rights to shared
               | cultural artifacts and _not_ provide a way for people to
               | access them.
               | 
               | I'm papering over some grey area where if it's not
               | available for purchase but you could get it from the
               | library, maybe via inter-library loan, then maybe in
               | aggregate it's better ethically to do that.
        
           | fluoridation wrote:
           | What do you mean when you say that it's "unethical"? I
           | understand that something is "unethical" when it contravenes
           | some code of correct behavior. I'm not sure what code is
           | contravened in the following scenario:
           | 
           | * Steve sells secrets for a fee.
           | 
           | * I want to buy a secret from Steve but he refuses to sell to
           | me specifically.
           | 
           | * Steve sells his secret to Bob.
           | 
           | * Bob is willing to tell Steve's secret to me for free, so he
           | does so.
           | 
           | It seems to me that in this scenario everyone got what they
           | wanted. Steve got to sell his secret to Bob and not to me,
           | and Bob and I got to learn Steve's secret. I think it would
           | be unethical to _force_ Steve to sell his secret to me if he
           | doesn 't want to, but I don't see what's unethical in
           | learning his secret from someone else even if he refuses to
           | sell it to me directly.
        
             | fragmede wrote:
             | Steve didn't want you to have them. Depending on what they
             | actually are, it could be important. If you're North Korea,
             | and they're the secret to nuclear weapons, Bob is in a lot
             | of trouble with Steve. Or if it's Steve's mom's ashes, and
             | you did something to her that Steve didn't like. Regardless
             | of how you got them, you got them, when Steve didn't want
             | you to have them. You might as well have broken into
             | Steve's house and stolen them yourself. That you had a
             | third party, Bob, to get you those secrets doesn't
             | contravene the fact that Steve didn't want you to have
             | them.
        
               | fluoridation wrote:
               | Of course, I used the word "secret", but it really is the
               | wrong word. A secret is something you don't tell anyone,
               | because you can't afford the wrong person finding out.
               | The game we play with copyright is pretending that
               | cultural artifacts are secrets, even though culture by
               | definition exists in the transmission from one person to
               | another.
               | 
               | If Steve didn't want me to have his secret at all he
               | shouldn't be selling it to Bob or anyone else.
        
             | WendyTheWillow wrote:
             | It's a fair question, but you are ethically responsible for
             | knowingly obtaining ill-gotten goods, and pirated media
             | violates the original purchaser's agreement with the IP
             | owner.
             | 
             | Basically, Bob agreed with Steve that Bob would not give
             | anyone else the secret, and Steve only sold Bob the secret
             | because he made that agreement, but then Bob turned around
             | and gave it to you for free.
             | 
             | So Bob lied, and you know Bob lied, and you benefit from
             | Bob lying, so it's unethical.
             | 
             | Again, all kinds of modifiers and caveats apply to the
             | severity here. I really have little sympathy for Steve when
             | he's a gazillionaire already, and the marginal value lost
             | isn't meaningful enough to stop Steve from making more
             | secrets, but technically speaking it appears to be an
             | immoral act to pirate.
        
               | fluoridation wrote:
               | >ill-gotten goods
               | 
               | I reject that there's such a thing as "ill-gotten bits".
               | 
               | >So Bob lied, and you know Bob lied, and you benefit from
               | Bob lying, so it's unethical.
               | 
               | If unethicality is transitive like this then the concept
               | of what's ethical or unethical dissolves into
               | meaninglessness. Everyone's actions affect everyone else
               | in form or another. How many murders and thefts am I
               | currently indirectly benefiting from just by existing, or
               | by using this computer? Even if I count just the ones I
               | know about and the ones I can infer, I think the number
               | is too large to care about.
               | 
               | I'm willing to concede that Bob's behavior is unethical,
               | but not that "my" behavior is, by transitivity.
        
               | WendyTheWillow wrote:
               | But I'm not talking about "affecting", I'm talking about
               | the direct action of knowingly obtaining stolen goods.
               | That's not indirect, that's direct!
               | 
               | We can look at law as an example of an application of
               | ethical concepts; it's illegal to knowingly purchase
               | stolen goods.
               | 
               | That said, if you don't believe in ownership of "bits",
               | then you probably don't care about this even if it were
               | unethical to you to obtain stolen goods.
               | 
               | You also probably don't have a great deal of respect for
               | property ownership generally, or capitalism, so there are
               | more foundational issues that can't really be resolved in
               | this context.
        
               | fluoridation wrote:
               | >I'm talking about the direct action of knowingly
               | obtaining stolen goods. That's not indirect, that's
               | direct!
               | 
               | "Stolen goods" are stolen because someone stole them and
               | is now trying to give them to you, probably in exchange
               | for money. If Bob purchases a secret from Steve and tells
               | me "hey, do you want to hear this thing Steve told me?
               | I'll tell you for free", at what point does the secret
               | Bob tells me become "stolen"? How can an action that
               | takes place after the acquisition of a thing have an
               | effect on the legitimacy of the owning of the thing (in
               | this case, a copy of the secret)? It seems to me that the
               | only possible answers to these questions are "never" and
               | "it can't", respectively.
               | 
               | >if you don't believe in ownership of "bits", then you
               | probably don't care about this even if it were unethical
               | to you to obtain stolen goods.
               | 
               | I believe in the ownership of bits. If we understand that
               | control is a fundamental part of ownership, then it
               | stands to reason that bits (or, more accurately,
               | sequences of bits) are owned by keeping them secret.
               | Therefore, if you reveal a secret you give up ownership
               | of it, in the same way that you give up ownership of
               | something when you hand it over to someone else.
               | 
               | That aside, do you think bits are exactly the same as
               | physical goods? Why would you think that someone who
               | rejects ownership of bits rejects ownership of property
               | in general?
        
               | WendyTheWillow wrote:
               | Your definition of stolen goods is circular; stolen goods
               | aren't stolen _because someone stole them_ ; they're
               | stolen because consent was not granted by the owner. You
               | can however _contingently_ be sold a good, which means
               | you are only allowed to have the good if you agree to
               | certain conditions. Once you violate those conditions,
               | you are forfeiting your ownership of that good if that 's
               | what you agreed to (and it is in the case of most digital
               | content).
               | 
               | As for control, it is decidedly _not_ a fundamental part
               | of ownership. You are not, for example, able to control
               | driving your car into another person willfully, but you
               | do still  "own" your car.
               | 
               | What it boils down to is the ethical obligation a person
               | has to do what they said they would do. Are you ethically
               | obligated to not lie? If so, when Bob tells Steve that he
               | (Bob) isn't going to share Steve's secret with anyone
               | else without Bob's permission, he would then break his
               | word if he subsequently shared Bob's secret with you.
               | You, knowing that Bob obtained the secret by lying to
               | Steve, are complicit in Bob's lie, making you morally
               | culpable.
               | 
               | This is obviously complicated by the infinitely
               | reproducible nature of digital goods, hence why I said
               | you don't care much for capitalism if you don't agree
               | with this notion, as capitalism introduces the concept of
               | artificial scarcity to protect Steve's incentives to
               | continue to produce secrets. There are many arguments
               | suggesting that Steve would produce secrets regardless of
               | incentive, but for a capitalist, the protection of the
               | monopoly is paramount.
        
               | fluoridation wrote:
               | >Your definition of stolen goods is circular
               | 
               | No, it's not circular. A good is a stolen good if it has
               | been stolen. That's not circular. There's a distinction
               | between something being stolen and something being a
               | stolen good, and the definition of the latter rests upon
               | the definition of the former. I didn't define "stealing"
               | because I didn't think it was necessary, as I thought we
               | all know what it means. But it seems we actually don't
               | agree on what "stealing" means. I think you "steal"
               | something if you remove someone's possession of an item
               | without their permission. If there's such a thing as
               | agreement between two parties that if violated can void
               | one of the parties rights to exploit an item then that's
               | not stealing. When you purchase something you acquiring
               | complete ownership over the thing. If there's strings
               | attached that can turn the purchase into a "theft" then
               | it's not a purchase. Perhaps it's a lease of some kind.
               | 
               | >As for control, it is decidedly not a fundamental part
               | of ownership. You are not, for example, able to control
               | driving your car into another person willfully, but you
               | do still "own" your car.
               | 
               | You're using control in a different sense than I. What I
               | mean is that you can decide what to do with the object as
               | you like, _with regards to the object itself_. No, you
               | can 't drive your car anywhere you like, but you can sell
               | or gift your car to anyone you like, and you destroy it
               | you like, or you can leave it parked forever if you like.
               | None of these are things you can do with a car you don't
               | own, are they?
               | 
               | >You, knowing that Bob obtained the secret by lying to
               | Steve, are complicit in Bob's lie, making you morally
               | culpable.
               | 
               | Well, let's stick to one thing at a time, eh? If you have
               | yet to convince me that my behavior is unethical, much
               | less are you going to convince me that it's immoral.
               | 
               | >What it boils down to is the ethical obligation a person
               | has to do what they said they would do.
               | 
               | I don't think a person has an ethical obligation to keep
               | promises that are based on unethical grounds. Such as
               | attaching strings to things that you sell. If you *sell*
               | me a car and make me sign a contract that says I can't
               | gift it to whoever I please, you bet I'm going to do
               | whatever I please. Your contract is nonsensical and
               | opposite to the notion of property. If you sell me
               | something you relinquish all rights to the thing you sell
               | me and acknowledge my right to do as I please with it. If
               | you don't relinquish those rights then you can't call it
               | a sale, and you have to price the transaction
               | accordingly.
               | 
               | >This is obviously complicated by the infinitely
               | reproducible nature of digital goods, hence why I said
               | you don't care much for capitalism if you don't agree
               | with this notion, as capitalism introduces the concept of
               | artificial scarcity to protect Steve's incentives to
               | continue to produce secrets. There are many arguments
               | suggesting that Steve would produce secrets regardless of
               | incentive, but for a capitalist, the protection of the
               | monopoly is paramount.
               | 
               | If you want to say that capitalism cannot exist without
               | intellectual property rights then I'll have to ask you to
               | argue for it.
        
               | WendyTheWillow wrote:
               | So you must believe that Steve can't condition the sale
               | of his secret with Bob upon Bob's behavior, according to
               | you? Steve can't say, "Bob, this is yours _as long as_
               | you don 't tell fluoridation. If you break this, you
               | forfeit ownership of this secret, and it is now mine
               | again."
               | 
               | What mechanism prevents Bob and Steve from entering into
               | such an agreement? To me, _that_ would be a violation of
               | freedom, to limit the kinds of agreements people can
               | enter into.
               | 
               | Besides, if one _could_ enter into such an agreement,
               | what would you call the deliberate violation of the
               | agreement, resulting in you knowingly possessing what
               | then becomes Steve 's secret again upon sale to you? To
               | me, knowingly possessing something that does not belong
               | to you seems like a fair definition of theft.
               | 
               | If you don't believe people are free to enter into
               | contingent ownership agreements, I do think you'll have a
               | pretty large problem with capitalism, even separate from
               | intellectual property, as it questions the very nature of
               | both freedom and ownership. Even by your own definition
               | of "control", wouldn't I not have control over something
               | if I can't concoct whatever rules for that thing that I
               | like?
        
               | at_a_remove wrote:
               | Well, it's sort of an "all bets are off" deal.
               | 
               | The purpose of copyright was a tradeoff: exclusivity, for
               | a while, but then cultural content is available and
               | preserved. The latter part of the deal has been _broken_.
               | And this is a deal with no teeth. There 's no penalties
               | to the copyright holder for something just becoming
               | completely unavailable, despite that availability being
               | part of the original intent.
               | 
               | So, if they let down their end of the social contract,
               | anything goes.
        
           | _bohm wrote:
           | > technically it's unethical.
           | 
           | For some technical definition of ethicality on which I'm sure
           | we can all agree :)
        
           | AlexandrB wrote:
           | What does it mean to "own rights" to the distribution of
           | information? It's effectively a restriction on everybody
           | else's freedom of speech for the benefit of the rights
           | holder. Whether this is a net benefit to society or not is
           | _very_ situational, so the ethics here are not as clear cut
           | as you imply.
           | 
           | > You aren't entitled to watch what you want.
           | 
           | The rights holder is not entitled to stop me from sending
           | certain streams of bits in all circumstances.
           | 
           | Edit: While calling IP "property" can be a useful abstraction
           | in some cases, it leads you astray in others. For example,
           | the only way to measure "losses" from piracy is as loss of
           | potential sales since the owner is not deprived of the
           | "property" in the process. But what are the losses when media
           | not available in a given geography is pirated in that
           | geography? There was no "potential revenue" that could be
           | recognized there because the media was _not for sale_. Thus
           | one _could_ argue that the losses are precisely $0.
        
             | WendyTheWillow wrote:
             | The rights holder isn't entitled to stop you from doing
             | what you like; _you_ are entitled, however, to agree not to
             | do things in order to obtain information.
             | 
             | That's what pirating is based on; you've explicitly agreed
             | _not_ to make available content for others when you agreed
             | to purchase the content.
             | 
             | By providing content for pirating, you are breaking your
             | word. Further, by consuming pirated content, you have a
             | reasonable assumption that the person providing you with
             | the pirated content obtained that content through
             | deception, which ropes you in on the culpability of the
             | ethical violation.
             | 
             | Nobody's freedom of speech is violated because nobody has
             | been compelled to do or say anything! Rather, you are
             | knowingly benefitting from the deception of others.
        
           | kps wrote:
           | > Obviously this is closer to "littering" than it is to
           | murder
           | 
           | Littering leaves behind something that costs money (effort)
           | to deal with. Trespassing is a better analogy: temporarily
           | using something that doesn't belong to you, in a way that is
           | undetectable if no one catches you in the act.
        
           | executesorder66 wrote:
           | That's debatable. It's illegal to torrent, but not
           | necessarily unethical. Is it really unethical to make an
           | identical copy of a file? How would you feel if I made an
           | identical copy of your car and drove off with the copy?
           | 
           | Furthermore the people involved in making the content put a
           | lot of time and effort into making this work of art. (Whether
           | it is good art is for the perciever to decide) and now the
           | distributor is preventing audiences from viewing/accessing
           | the art for no good reason. Is that ethical?
           | 
           | I see torrenting as a case of civil disobedience. Yes it is
           | not legal, but it IS ethical. It is protesting stupid laws
           | and policies. When distributers don't let you legally access
           | content, they should get fucked over, and people should
           | pirate it to send a message: "We would have paid for this,
           | but you didn't want to let us. So fuck you, we will get it
           | for free then. See how much blocking legal access helps you."
        
           | nitwit005 wrote:
           | The justification given for copyright law is typically to
           | "promote the arts". In a situation where they refuse to sell
           | the product, that justification is essentially gone.
           | 
           | If you violate a law that doesn't benefit anyone, who is
           | harmed?
        
         | Avamander wrote:
         | It's even more "fun" when it's the same streaming service, but
         | your region is not amongst the blessed ones. One still has to
         | pay the same price for the subscription as those that get a
         | better catalogue, not to mention the differences in purchasing
         | power. I struggle to see how avoiding in some sense unethical
         | business practices is (as) unethical.
         | 
         | EUIPO nicely published a study recently that very clearly says
         | that it's primarily a service and economic issue. The amount of
         | available service providers and the amount of piracy heavily
         | correlated.
        
       | stuckinhell wrote:
       | Not surprised this is happening. Disney has had 10 major film
       | bombs in row. Alot of executives must believe it's due to piracy.
        
         | baz00 wrote:
         | As a follower of all things arrrrrrrr, the reason I didn't
         | watch the Disney stuff was because I'm fucking fed up with
         | their fucking garbage. I don't steal it _or_ watch it in the
         | cinema!
        
           | hotnfresh wrote:
           | Lots of the genre TV shows these days--like the Netflix
           | Marvel stuff, or most of the Star Wars or Disney Marvel tv
           | shows--can only be saved by fan edits because of the absurdly
           | slow plotting, used to stretch a bit over a movie of plot to
           | fill three or more movies worth of time. The scripts and
           | editing are beyond flabby, they're morbidly obese. Even if
           | you're paying for the service, the best version of the
           | product's usually coming from pirates.
        
           | kyriakos wrote:
           | Watched all marvel movies up to endgame at the cinema. After
           | that watched a few at home and gave up. It's not piracy it's
           | repetitive uninspiring plots, bad special effects, and
           | characters that we don't care about.
           | 
           | The Critical Drinker has a series of videos about what's
           | wrong with movies these days, even if he's always
           | exaggerating his points are spot on.
           | https://youtube.com/@TheCriticalDrinker?si=IwnFx_y3YCA-zBzU
        
             | baz00 wrote:
             | Just watched a couple of those. Absolutely nailed it.
        
           | zlg_codes wrote:
           | Same. I don't subscribe to any services and honestly, if it
           | wasn't for my SO I wouldn't watch much of anything. They
           | don't know how to appeal to me and I finish most movies
           | wishing I had written some code instead.
           | 
           | Even gaming is going that way with the bad business practices
           | and over-reliance on filler content like crafting to extend a
           | game's life.
           | 
           | So it'll be funny when these media giants blame piracy, it
           | gets studied, and found that even pirating for their stuff is
           | less common than it used to be. Sometimes markets just
           | shrink. Hollywood wasn't going to bust blocks forever.
        
             | baz00 wrote:
             | Yeah gaming is terrible. I just sold my GPU because I don't
             | need it because the games are all shit.
        
           | mythrwy wrote:
           | They are now producing a product that isn't even worth
           | minimal effort to steal.
        
         | pixelpoet wrote:
         | 100% guaranteed said execs won't be watching South Park: Into
         | the Panderverse, which is literally directly about them. You
         | couldn't pay me to watch that Disney crap.
        
           | jjeaff wrote:
           | I highly doubt that most of Disney's fan base is actually fed
           | up because their movies aren't "edgy" enough. Perhaps some of
           | the Lucasfilm fans, but Kathleen Kennedy (the target of the
           | South Park ribbing), seems to be doing fine. I believe at
           | least one of her Star Wars movies is the 2nd highest grossing
           | Star Wars movie ever.
        
             | networkchad wrote:
             | You're confusing quality with gross revenue. First thing
             | that comes to my mind: Marvel movies gross an absolute shit
             | ton of dollars, but the quality of the story is absolute
             | dogshit. Yeah, she won't lose her job, but the quality of
             | said movies lacks.
        
               | saiya-jin wrote:
               | You moved the subject, not everybody cares about
               | 'quality' of movies like movie buffs (like me) do.
               | 
               | Marvel is popcorn fun, sometimes better, sometimes worse.
               | These are not even planned as some art-aspiring movies,
               | so as long as expectations are managed everybody is fine,
               | earnings at least says so and if you don't like whole
               | genre then simply skip them.
               | 
               | Actually, snobbish bashing of Marvel became such a cheap
               | 'look at me' desperate attention grab attempt of
               | teenagers that I don't take it seriously. In same vein as
               | globalization protesters focus on McDonald for some
               | reason. You have endless line of say family movies that
               | are absolute nauseating crap from cinematography,
               | storytelling, character development etc., among other
               | fails of hollywood, anybody wanting to be actually taken
               | serious would start with those 'gems'.
        
               | sgift wrote:
               | Sure, but the thing that "Into the Pandaverse" seems to
               | make fun off (according to the description in the GP
               | comment, I haven't seen it) doesn't lead to better
               | quality. Edginess doesn't equal quality, even if some
               | people seem to think just dialing up the edginess-meter
               | would make the films magically better.
               | 
               | It _can_ be part of a quality experience, such as so-
               | called  "woke" content can be, if it's done in the right
               | way. But that needs good content creators, with enough
               | leeway and time to make a good experience, same as
               | everything else.
        
           | autoexec wrote:
           | It's exclusive to Paramount+ so I expect that a lot of
           | people, Disney or not, won't be watching South Park: Into the
           | Panderverse
        
             | skyyler wrote:
             | I'm going to illegally download it to watch it later
             | tonight.
        
           | godelski wrote:
           | >> Alot of executives must believe it's due to piracy.
           | 
           | > 100% guaranteed said execs won't be watching South Park
           | 
           | Oh, really? Well, did you know that over one fourth of the
           | people in America think that 9/11 was a conspiracy random
           | metrics are meaningful? Are you saying that one fourth of
           | Americans are r......?
        
             | the_only_law wrote:
             | Huh, since when did HN have strike through support.
        
               | Dylan16807 wrote:
               | That is U+0336 COMBINING LONG STROKE OVERLAY
        
               | the_only_law wrote:
               | Ah got it. For a second i thought markdown support had
               | been expanded.
        
               | godelski wrote:
               | Honestly I just google it every time because I can't be
               | bothered to learn the keyboard shortcuts.
        
         | jjeaff wrote:
         | I could see why they might blame piracy for faltering Blueray
         | or streaming sales. But piracy rates for movies still in the
         | theater must be quite low. At least, I assume most people are
         | not watching Cam footage of the screen with its terrible
         | quality.
        
           | sgift wrote:
           | The underlying assumption here is that their accusation has
           | to make sense, but that's not the case. It only has to sound
           | reasonable to Wall Street, so the managers can get money for
           | a bit longer, until people are fed up.
           | 
           | Unsurprisingly, I think that piracy - whether blueray or
           | streaming - isn't in any measurable way relevant to the
           | current woes of Hollywood or even more specific Disney.
           | They've made their bed, now they have to lie in it.
        
         | autoexec wrote:
         | > Not surprised this is happening. Disney has had 10 major film
         | bombs in row.
         | 
         | Which were they? The last Disney movie I think I saw was
         | Elemental and that ended up doing pretty well in terms of money
         | and reviews.
        
           | angry_moose wrote:
           | Its not 10 outright failures in a row, but they've been doing
           | poorly for most of 2023.
           | 
           | Keep in mind that ~2X the official production budget is
           | roughly the minimum threshold for a movie to break even,
           | after factoring in marketing and the theater take:
           | 
           | Elemental was a modest success earning $495.9M against a
           | $200M budget.
           | 
           | The Little Mermaid maybe barely broke even at $569.6M against
           | a $297M budget.
           | 
           | Indiana Jones bombed hard, earning $384M against a $300M
           | budget.
           | 
           | The Marvels is trending towards about $200M against a $274.8M
           | budget.
           | 
           | Wish opened terribly this weekend, pulling in $49M in its
           | first weekend against a $200M budget (will likely finish
           | between $120-150M)
           | 
           | Edit: Forgot about Haunted Mansion, earning $117.5M against
           | $150M.
        
             | slickdork wrote:
             | I looked up their meta critic scores out of curiosity:
             | 
             | Elemental - Metacritic score of 58/100
             | 
             | The Little Mermaid - Metascore of 59/100
             | 
             | Indiana Jones - Metascore of 58/100
             | 
             | Wish - Metascore of 48/100
             | 
             | Haunted Mansion - of 47/100
        
         | tyfon wrote:
         | Could perhaps also be due to them charging a subscription and
         | demanding extra money to view the movie in addition.
         | 
         | Just an idea..
        
           | plagiarist wrote:
           | I think you might be on to something. People already paying
           | $XX/mo. might be more inclined to wait for the streaming
           | release. I'd love to see some stats on viewership split by
           | streaming subscriptions.
        
             | gspencley wrote:
             | That's me. I would have watched Wish already if it was a
             | simultaneous stream + theatrical release. I don't think
             | it's worth taking the family to the theatre to see it but
             | (despite lukewarm reviews) I'm still looking forward to
             | watching it on Disney+ nonetheless.
        
         | jimbob45 wrote:
         | _Alot of executives must believe it 's due to piracy._
         | 
         | A lot of people think it's because they're woke. It's not even
         | that - they're just bad movies. I watched Moana a few times and
         | realized they're making fundamental story mistakes. Characters
         | never resolve their conflicts, jokes are prioritized over
         | theme, and important character traits are shown too quickly to
         | the point where you can miss it if you blink.
         | 
         | We really need Disney to slow down and understand that the
         | story comes first with these movies and that good stories take
         | a long time to develop. Frozen took like fifty years to finally
         | make. BatB took four plus numerous failed iterations over
         | decades.
         | 
         | I highly recommend that everyone read the Katzenberg memo[0]
         | from the 90s that was sent out right before Disney went from
         | middling studio to international powerhouse.
         | 
         | [0]https://sriramk.com/memos/katzenberg.pdf
        
           | whatshisface wrote:
           | "Woke" movies end up being greenlit like sequels are, on the
           | basis of something about them not on their individual
           | strengths. That's why spiritually correct movies (Lionsgate
           | makes them too, it's not just Disney) and sequels are often
           | worse than one-off productions that slip through the
           | extremely challenging filtering process. If you combine
           | ideology and sequels, you get some of these remakes. The only
           | thing saving us from a live action remake of Chronicles of
           | Narnia is that it was live action to begin with.
        
             | gamblor956 wrote:
             | What was woke about the Chronicles of Narnia movies?
             | 
             | The books are famously super-Christian, and the movie
             | adaptation was produced by Walden Media, owned by the
             | ultraconservative Philip Anschutz.
        
               | danShumway wrote:
               | I don't think this is actually what most people _really_
               | think when they throw out accusations of films being
               | "woke", but if you take GP at their word:
               | 
               | > "Woke" movies end up being greenlit like sequels are,
               | on the basis of something about them not on their
               | individual strengths.
               | 
               | Then pretty much any Christian movie that is primarily
               | marketed on the basis of being a Christian movie would be
               | woke, and Narnia was heavily marketed in Christian
               | circles and I remember Christians at the time certainly
               | feeling that this was a Christian fantasy movie that was
               | made for them that was going to serve as an alternative
               | to more secular fantasy movie series.
               | 
               | Modern Christian cinema is basically the definition of
               | prioritizing a message and a demographic over any other
               | cinematic feature or quality; these are films that get
               | greenlit because they espouse a Christian ideology and
               | because a subset of the market will pay to see any movie
               | that explicitly espouses a Christian ideology regardless
               | of its quality or how obviously the film is shallowly
               | pandering to them.
               | 
               | The broader Christian entertainment market even captures
               | the sense of cynicism in that definition. A lot of
               | Christian media is made by non-Christians not because of
               | some holy purpose but because it's easy and profitable to
               | pander to certain Christian denominations. If you don't
               | know how to make good movies, a good fallback is to quote
               | some Bible verses in a bad movie and then see if you'll
               | get support from an audience that mostly just cares about
               | being represented on a movie screen.
               | 
               | ----
               | 
               | Again, I'm not saying that I think this is a great
               | definition to use. I think it's kind of reductive: good
               | movies have themes, that's part of what makes them good.
               | And good movies get made because people care about the
               | themes and care about the finished product and how it
               | will affect viewers. The idea that films having a message
               | or political point of view is intrinsically counter to
               | their quality -- it's just not a great way to approach
               | film criticism. Theme/telos can't be fully separated from
               | a film's quality.
               | 
               | But if we're talking about message over substance, it's
               | not at all surprising to me that someone would call a
               | Christian or Conservative movie woke. It's only
               | surprising because we know deep down that generic
               | criticism of "message over substance" is not really what
               | most people mean when they call a film "woke".
        
               | whatshisface wrote:
               | Art transcends conservatives-versus-liberals and so does
               | the principle of substituting propaganda for art. That's
               | why _I_ don 't like what Hollywood has taken away from
               | itself; people who would accept the bad movies if they
               | were preaching who-knows-what-else can speak for
               | themselves. It's a common refrain that people criticize
               | these new movies as a way to secretly criticize what they
               | represent, but to be honest, it's just a lot of really
               | bad movies...
        
           | hutzlibu wrote:
           | "realized they're making fundamental story mistakes.
           | Characters never resolve their conflicts, jokes are
           | prioritized over theme, and important character traits are
           | shown too quickly to the point where you can miss it if you
           | blink."
           | 
           | Isn't that a common theme, in allmost all mainstream
           | hollywood movies?
        
           | gamblor956 wrote:
           | You might have the wrong movie. Moana spent 5 years in
           | development, made almost $700m at the box office, and has a
           | 95% RT rating (critics rating) and an A CinemaScore (audience
           | rating). Nobody else seems to have noticed the "fundamental
           | story mistakes."
        
           | kyriakos wrote:
           | Consider that moana was before they went completely downhill.
           | Give elementals a try and you'll see what I mean.
        
           | gspencley wrote:
           | > A lot of people think it's because they're woke. It's not
           | even that - they're just bad movies.
           | 
           | Every time I hear this claim "It's not that it's 'woke', it's
           | that it's a bad movie" I ask myself: "what does 'woke' mean,
           | then?"
           | 
           | I don't consider myself to be a conservative. I lean left on
           | a lot of issues, especially social issues. I love Star Trek
           | and a lot of left-leaning art. Yet I can't stand "woke"
           | movies and tv series.
           | 
           | Why is that?
           | 
           | In my opinion, _part_ of being a  "woke" movie IS being a bad
           | movie. It's not that it has a message or a point of view.
           | There is tons of great art out there has a left-leaning
           | message. To me, "woke" suggests that any combination of
           | character, plot, theme, development or production design was
           | neglected in favour of tokenization (or "pandering" as South
           | Park put it). The implication being that the movie was
           | supposed to do well because, allegedly, "modern audiences"
           | are seeking titles with heavy handed messages and
           | tokenization because that's what they are looking for, versus
           | well thought-out writing and production. A "woke" movie is
           | one where bad reviews can and are blamed on various *ists.
        
             | Dylan16807 wrote:
             | What are some "woke" movies and shows, by your definition?
             | 
             | The accusations I see are almost always aimed at either the
             | basic and valid choices of theme, or complaining about some
             | character's demographic when it doesn't come at the cost of
             | anything else. And for the latter, often complaining about
             | over-representation when that is not in fact happening.
        
             | mason55 wrote:
             | > _Every time I hear this claim "It's not that it's 'woke',
             | it's that it's a bad movie" I ask myself: "what does 'woke'
             | mean, then?"_
             | 
             | I think the idea here is that "woke" is a loaded and
             | controversial term. Even people who agree that "woke"
             | movies are, by definition bad, can disagree on what exactly
             | "woke" means.
             | 
             | But for these movies we can skip that whole argument
             | because _even if you forget about the wokeness argument,
             | the movies are still bad_. Even if all woke movies are bad,
             | you can have bad movies that aren 't woke, or are both woke
             | + bad for other reasons. By removing the wokeness argument
             | it makes it easier to form a consensus that the movies are
             | _still bad_.
        
           | inglor_cz wrote:
           | "A lot of people think it's because they're woke. It's not
           | even that - they're just bad movies."
           | 
           | That may be just an aftereffect of woke.
           | 
           | The younger generation is heavily exposed to ideas like "you
           | must not offend anyone ever, otherwise your career is over"
           | or "teams must be diverse first and foremost, results don't
           | matter as much, but you must tick all the required identity
           | boxes".
           | 
           | I can see how combination of those two results in production
           | of bland, superficial art, regardless of the genre or medium
           | used.
        
           | MyFirstSass wrote:
           | I think one of the reasons people are so tired of wokeness in
           | movies is that they can sense the fact that it's fake justice
           | corpo-speak.
           | 
           | It's what happens when you vacuum any substance from the
           | original justice movements leaving only identity without any
           | critique of the actual power brokers of the world; the war
           | machines, the financial exploitation, the industrial
           | complexes.
           | 
           | It's more sinister than having no social commentary at all.
        
         | paul7986 wrote:
         | I think it's due to TikTok and YouTube as well superhero movie
         | fatigue.
         | 
         | I personally canceled all streaming services and binge YouTube
         | and some TikTok /reels when not socializing with friends or
         | family.
        
         | ReptileMan wrote:
         | Honestly they are so dull and lifeless they are not even worth
         | pirating. Like the recent Assassin's' creeds.
        
         | LordDragonfang wrote:
         | It's not even piracy - it's their own streaming services. Why
         | would I pay to watch a mediocre Disney movie in theatres when I
         | already pay for the streaming service I know it's going to end
         | up on in a few weeks? On demand, in the comfort of my home,
         | without having to spend my precious non-work time making plans
         | to drive to a theater?
        
         | inglor_cz wrote:
         | "Disney has had 10 major film bombs in row"
         | 
         | Excuse me, I don't follow movies much, which are the 10 bombs?
         | I would like to learn more about what happened.
        
         | mullingitover wrote:
         | Blaming piracy is just lazy, and I'm embarrassed for those
         | execs.
         | 
         | We're in the middle of a historic glut in entertainment options
         | and there are only so many hours in a day to consume it all.
         | Profits have collapsed over the past decade[1] as a result.
         | 
         | > Professionally produced film and TV has more competition for
         | attention than ever before. People spend more time (and money)
         | on video games than they do on movies, and they spend more time
         | watching YouTube than any other TV network.
         | 
         | > This is fine for the business of culture since we're all
         | spending more time consuming media. But it's bad news for the
         | legacy players and for people who like to make traditional
         | scripted programming. It's harder to justify spending $200
         | million on a TV series when people can also watch a bunch of
         | TikToks that cost nothing to make.
         | 
         | [1]
         | https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2023-06-25/film-a...
        
       | gustavus wrote:
       | When my son was younger he liked Paw Patrol, so we bought several
       | season of Paw Patrol, I now have a duaghter that is the same age
       | and likes Paw Patrol. I pulled up my handy Youtube subscription,
       | went into my bought movies and found out that the Paw Patrol
       | season I had bought and paid for was no longer available because
       | it was now only available on KidsToons+ or PreimerParenting or
       | some other bull hockey like that.
       | 
       | I decided at that point if they can yank away media I had already
       | paid for on a whim, we no long had a contract. Now I am working
       | on buying myself a fine sailing ship, and unfurling the jolly
       | roger to sail the high seas seeking booty and plunder and buried
       | treasure.
        
         | op00to wrote:
         | Kids TV episode naming ESPECIALLY Paw Patrol is horribly
         | inconsistent when sailing the seas, which leads to child revolt
         | when they want to see a specific episode and the file names are
         | all wrong.
        
         | westpfelia wrote:
         | Its a good time to get into it with Black Friday deals on
         | usenet providers. Can snag year long subscriptions on the
         | cheap.
        
         | overtomanu wrote:
         | plunder and buried treasure == pirate bay?
        
         | AlexandrB wrote:
         | Consumer rights have taken a huge hit with digital
         | distribution. For example, it's not possible to resell most
         | "digital goods" as you could with physical media. Losing access
         | to stuff you paid for with no recourse is another example.
         | 
         | It's closer to a rental than a "purchase".
        
           | gustavus wrote:
           | And it's closer to independent backup than "piracy"
        
         | gamblor956 wrote:
         | YouTube does not remove purchased videos, those are yours to
         | keep watching for as long as YouTube retains the right to keep
         | distributing them (which is separate from the right to
         | rent/sell them; generally the rightsholder agrees to indefinite
         | distribution rights for _sales_ as a basic contractual
         | provision since it would otherwise render the  "sales" right
         | meaningless).
         | 
         | Note that it is the _exceptional case_ that YouTube would lose
         | the right to show Paw Patrol to purchasers. Given the
         | popularity of the show, something like that would have made
         | national news. Politicians would be talking about it right now.
        
       | zoogeny wrote:
       | Recently a friend of mine recommended me to watch the movie
       | Heavenly Creatures. I went to justwatch.ca to see if it was
       | streaming anywhere in Canada [1]. Not only was it not listed as
       | streaming, it wasn't even listed to purchase anywhere. I went to
       | as many places as I could think to find it: Amazon, Apple,
       | Netflix, even Cineplex online. I was not able to find it anywhere
       | available in Canada to stream for any amount of money. I found an
       | article online that corroborates this is true [2] and recommends
       | using a VPN to access content in other regions.
       | 
       | It made me realize that we are very much at risk of losing our
       | cultural memory. For this particular movie I could use a VPN I
       | suppose, but I imagine that some movies/music/books will someday
       | not be available in any region in any form.
       | 
       | 1. https://www.justwatch.com/ca/movie/heavenly-creatures
       | 
       | 2. https://www.entoin.com/entertainment/heavenly-creatures-
       | on-n...
        
         | wahnfrieden wrote:
         | Some, someday? Most are already not available, it's about half
         | of all produced that are available. There are online archives
         | that try to assemble access to many of these lost or otherwise
         | inaccessible films or other media, but they get shut down or
         | lock access over time.
        
         | ljm wrote:
         | There was a TV show starring JK Simmons called Counterpoint. I
         | was able to watch it at one point but now it is completely
         | unavailable in the UK. Can't even buy the series!
         | 
         | Despite subscribing to the Showtime channel on Amazon Prime, I
         | cannot watch Homeland. I can watch it on Netflix though and the
         | audio and quality is absolute shit. And I don't want to give
         | Netflix 20 quid a month for that.
         | 
         | Why homeland? Was on a Damien Lewis binge. Love that guy's
         | work.
        
           | ghaff wrote:
           | Counterpart. Was a really good show. It's available in the US
           | but it looks like you have to buy or rent.
        
             | ljm wrote:
             | That's the thing. Can't do it. Unless it was released on
             | physical media.
             | 
             | I really wanted to watch it again considering severance s2
             | has been in limbo for ages.
        
               | ghaff wrote:
               | It seems to be available on DVD in the US. Though going
               | forward--and given the number of people who don't even
               | own DVD players any longer (even some older folks think
               | it's weird I still have one)--I expect more and more
               | things won't be released on physical media any longer.
        
           | walthamstow wrote:
           | > Was on a Damien Lewis binge
           | 
           | Guessing Band of Brothers, Billions, what else?
        
             | daveguy wrote:
             | Life was a good one. Sadly, not enough people agreed and it
             | was cancelled after 2 seasons.
             | 
             | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_(American_TV_series)
        
             | Arrath wrote:
             | That crime procedural where he was a Good Cop who went to
             | jail on a bad rap or whatever it was?
             | 
             | E: Should have refreshed before replying.
        
             | schlipity wrote:
             | Don't forget about Life. The show that ended too early.
        
           | Yoric wrote:
           | Wasn't that Counterpart? The one that takes place in Berlin?
        
         | LeonardoTolstoy wrote:
         | Do libraries in Canada loan DVDs and/or Blu-rays (and I suppose
         | do you have something to play those, a PS5 for example)?
         | 
         | Just checked my local library system and there are 7 available
         | copies of Heavenly Creatures, I could get it and watch it in a
         | few days via inter library loan. But I'm in the States.
         | 
         | 95% of the films I watch via the library I would venture. But
         | it depends on your system.
        
           | zoogeny wrote:
           | I do not own a DVD or Blu-ray player! I'm sure I could buy
           | the DVD/Blu-ray on ebay (I saw it on Amazon for over $40!)
           | and then buy a DVD/Blu-ray player. Or maybe it's on VHS or
           | Laserdisc and I could obtain a physical copy of one of those
           | and the necessary machines. That seems like a lot of work for
           | a 2 hour movie. Probably faster to pay for a VPN and then
           | stream from a region where it is available.
           | 
           | Of course, none of that has anything to do whatsoever with
           | the point. As we transition as a society away from physical
           | goods and towards digital goods, we are placing ourselves at
           | risk of companies erasing those digital goods. For now we
           | have backups (like DVDs) and workarounds (like VPNs).
           | Reasonably soon that won't be the case. It is possible that
           | the favorite content of toddlers today (e.g. on Disney+)
           | might just be totally inaccessible to them one day.
        
             | michaelleslie wrote:
             | Goodwill (or similar) is your friend here. Physical media
             | players are likely to get purged when someone's de-
             | cluttering their home.
        
               | beej71 wrote:
               | Secondhand stores are also great for picking up CDs and
               | DVDs for cheap.
        
             | beej71 wrote:
             | You can also buy USB DVD-ROM drives for $15 or so, then
             | rip. I'm in the middle of doing that to my DVD collection.
        
         | michaelleslie wrote:
         | Anecdote, but I've gone back to public library DVDs and Blu-
         | rays for titles unavailable on streaming for similar reasons to
         | what you've described.
         | 
         | I'm in the States, so it's less of an issue of region/market
         | lock-out and more an issue of no one being able to own their
         | own media any more.
        
         | hn_ta456 wrote:
         | Our cultural memory and our ability to develop it and pass it
         | on was erased when we decided that a small group of people had
         | to be in charge of writing, recording and broadcasting it.
         | Recorded culture is dead and frozen culture.
        
           | 0xDEAFBEAD wrote:
           | >Our cultural memory and our ability to develop it and pass
           | it on was erased when we decided that a small group of people
           | had to be in charge of writing, recording and broadcasting
           | it.
           | 
           | When did we decide that? It's never been easier for an
           | ordinary person to write, record, and broadcast...
        
             | hn_ta456 wrote:
             | Write, record and broadcast _what_? What happened to the
             | stories, music and performance handed down by cultural
             | tradition? Unless you think Mr Beast qualifies. "Broadcast"
             | is also part of the problem. Audience size is the goal, not
             | the story, moral or history.
        
         | glimshe wrote:
         | I simply can't find my favorite Graphic Novels in DRM-free
         | format outside pirate streams. I want to pay for them, but
         | there is no scenario where I'll shell out hundreds of dollars
         | to rent content from big DRM providers like Amazon.
         | 
         | I'm not as afraid of _completely_ losing our cultural memory
         | exactly because  "piracy" can't be ultimately defeated: As long
         | as people can consume their DRM-protected content, there will
         | be always a way to remove the DRM and offer it through
         | alternate means. I understand the risk of civil disobedience,
         | however it seems that there has never been a time without the
         | risk-takers that effectively protect our cultural heritage.
         | 
         | Despite the immense power of the immoral US Copyright law, it's
         | not all-powerful as places like sci-hub prove.
        
           | sonicanatidae wrote:
           | The media giants did this, with exactly what you mentioned.
           | DRM.
           | 
           | I can download a movie for free, or I can spring $20-30 for
           | the DVD, then sit through forced FBI warnings, then previews,
           | etc. when I really just wanted to watch a damn movie.
           | 
           | They shifted the burden to the consumer (time wasted) and in
           | a world with piracy, good luck with that model.
        
         | jfghi wrote:
         | Recently I tried to purchase an exercise book to find that the
         | printed copy released in 2013 was nowhere to be found new or
         | used although I remember it being for sale as recently as last
         | year. Instead there is only a kindle version available.
        
         | jhbadger wrote:
         | In the US (and perhaps elsewhere) I recently witnessed this
         | with _Angels & Insects_, the 1995 movie based on a novella by
         | A.S. Byatt (who died last week). Not only does it not appear to
         | be available streaming, but the DVD is out of print and used
         | copies seem to be going for $40+.
        
       | A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote:
       | If steam and gog proved anything, it is that piracy is a service
       | level issue. It is so much easier for me to purchase from of
       | those, because I can trust ( at least until Gabe dies in Steam's
       | case ) to some reasonable extent that they won't try to pull a
       | rug from under me.
       | 
       | CD Projekt is a public company now, but you CAN download raw ISOs
       | if you are so inclined.
       | 
       | If there was a similar reasonable repository for other media.
       | Right now.. what we have almost the exact opposite that will
       | likely result in a spike of piracy. I have 3 streaming services (
       | wife's bidding; don't judge ), but it is going to end up soon if
       | they don't have anything worthwhile on it -- and I already argue
       | that they do not.
        
         | ghaff wrote:
         | A number of years back, an analyst friend of mine made a claim
         | in a talk that Napster was more about convenience (i.e. near
         | instant access) than it was about cheapness. I didn't buy the
         | argument at the time but habits that have developed in the time
         | since suggest there's a lot of truth in what he said. Video is
         | more complicated than music because of fragmentation and
         | outright unavailability of a lot of content. But most people
         | with even remotely mainstream music tastes are _very_ widely
         | fine with just streaming.
        
           | hotnfresh wrote:
           | I'd happily pay $50/m for a streaming service with a single
           | UI that had all the shit my piracy server does, and a
           | guarantee that things won't disappear (or at least a track
           | record of that rarely happening). Hell, I might pay as much
           | as $100/m. Maintaining the server and pirating stuff takes
           | time, and hard drives cost real money.
           | 
           | It's only the combo of money savings, higher quality (most
           | steams are shit), unavailability of what I want (the best
           | versions of several TV shows and movies are piracy
           | exclusives, for one thing), and unified UI that make it worth
           | it. Start chipping away at those, and it gets not-worth-it
           | pretty fast. Apple tried with their unified streaming service
           | UI on Apple TV, but several big players who hate their paying
           | customers refused to implement it, so that's a dud.
           | 
           | Hell, I in-fact still pay for like five streaming services
           | despite all the above. I'd gladly pay one higher bill if it
           | let me stop fussing with this crap.
        
       | croes wrote:
       | I would like to see the same enthusiasm in the prosecution of
       | financial crimes committed by Wall Street & Co.
        
         | fmajid wrote:
         | "Treason doth never prosper: what 's the reason? Why, if it
         | prosper, none dare call it treason."
         | 
         | -- John Harrington
        
         | winternett wrote:
         | The other day I saw Netflix promoting they were streaming the
         | WIZ (The 1970s movie With Michael Jackson FFS)... No new edit
         | of the movie even, just a 40 year old movie that is now re-
         | released for the 120th time, on streaming.
         | 
         | There is often little to no value in new media, it's just
         | rising costs in light of no alternative options for
         | entertainment. Any other business doing that would fail, but
         | these companies are having a field day on re-runs and low-
         | effort content because social media encourages everyone to be
         | isolated indoors on the Internet 24/7 when they're not working
         | for large companies. A lot of the independent films being
         | released rival that of major studios now, and no one is really
         | citing the disparity in quality amidst the rising costs of
         | online entertainment.
         | 
         | I still kept most of my DVDs and a DVD player for the same very
         | reason... I'll replay old movies if there are no new options
         | forever and be happy if I need to. Most modern movies and shows
         | are low-effort and rehashed ideas anyways, especially as Ai
         | editing comes into play, the quality will decline in volumes of
         | lazy work IMO...
         | 
         | The single best way we can send a firm message is by not
         | playing into funding the corruption. Instead of gamified Wall
         | Street investing, high yield saving accounts and gambling on my
         | own business ideas is still risky, but potentially far more
         | profitable and stable than the markets in this new capitalist
         | model.
         | 
         | Don't play the game if the field is skewed for you to lose.
        
         | plagiarist wrote:
         | You would have to be able to subscribe to Justice+. It's costly
         | but subscriptions come with government handouts so I think you
         | end up making money.
        
         | TacticalCoder wrote:
         | > I would like to see the same enthusiasm in the prosecution of
         | financial crimes committed by Wall Street & Co.
         | 
         | What about corrupt politicians?
        
           | lioeters wrote:
           | That's the "& Co", for the company of collaborators,
           | conspirators, and corrupt cohorts.
        
       | uconnectlol wrote:
       | why am i paying severe amounts of tax money to protect the
       | investment [1] of some garbage software, movie, and music firms
       | whose product quality for the last 20 years have been at an all
       | time disgraceful low to the point where i'm basically getting
       | scammed if i buy their products but there is a cartel of such
       | companies so no matter what alternative i choose it's just as
       | bad.
       | 
       | 1. and not even. the threat of piracy is just theoretical
        
         | InCityDreams wrote:
         | >why am i paying severe amounts of tax money
         | 
         | Define "severe"?
        
           | lotsofpulp wrote:
           | All the court costs for litigating copyright issues are
           | explicitly costs, the lack of creativity from people not
           | being able to use previously created media an implicit cost.
           | 
           | Societies want to incentivize creating media, not creating a
           | monopoly for 100+ years. Copyright protections should last 10
           | years.
        
         | darigo wrote:
         | ha, your comment reminds of that quote from the mentor:
         | 
         | "We make use of a service already existing without paying for
         | what could be dirt-cheap if it wasn't run by profiteering
         | gluttons, and you call us criminals"
        
       | echelon_musk wrote:
       | I'm confused by this article. They seem to equate the scene with
       | p2p. Admittedly I did only skim read TFA.
        
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