[HN Gopher] New Wave Sci-Fi: 75 Best Novels of 1964-1983
___________________________________________________________________
New Wave Sci-Fi: 75 Best Novels of 1964-1983
Author : webmaven
Score : 130 points
Date : 2023-11-25 17:21 UTC (5 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.hilobrow.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.hilobrow.com)
| kramerger wrote:
| Hugged to death already
|
| https://web.archive.org/web/20231109133450/https://www.hilob...
| daoboy wrote:
| It is interesting to see how a handful of writers (especially
| Phillip K Dick!) really dominated the genre.
|
| Also a few forgotten gems I am going to have to reread now.
| kramerger wrote:
| I feel this was the winter of sci-fi.
|
| I enjoyed Dune and Androids but the rest are mostly meh. A lot
| of DNF books for me (including Slaughterhouse-Five, which I
| know has its fans but I really disliked)
| aardvark179 wrote:
| I couldn't disagree more. The new wave is where SF starts to
| get interesting for me, and is when a lot of my favourite
| authors got started.
| sctb wrote:
| I'm curious to hear more about why you feel this was the
| winter of sci-fi! Can you share some more besides personal
| preference? (I'm not a huge Vonnegut fan or even big reader
| in general and Slaughterhouse-Five and Cat's Cradle were
| pretty far from DNF for me.)
| ajmurmann wrote:
| I feel similarly. However, I absolutely love Vonnegut, but
| don't see his work as scifi. Sure it has all the elements,
| but the themes are mostly different. To me the best scifi is
| about a technology that could exist and plays through all the
| consequences. Slaughterhouse Five isn't that, it's about
| WWII. (From my definition one might guess correctly that I
| see space opera as a derogatory term)
| kramerger wrote:
| I heard that his writing could have been a way to process
| what he went through during the war. That could explain the
| darkness.
|
| There is a modern fantasy writer that writes quite dark
| stories. I read that this is because of a very sick family
| member, and some of his best books have been written in a
| hospital room. While I applaude both for turning something
| bad into something good, these sort of books are just not
| my cup of tea. And I think a lot of people are like me. We
| read books to get away from the problems of real life, not
| dive into other people's troubled minds.
| ajmurmann wrote:
| "And I think a lot of people are like me. We read books
| to get away from the problems of real life, not dive into
| other people's troubled minds."
|
| That certainly makes sense and is of course also a
| subjective preference. To me great insights lie in the
| darkness, but it isn't for everyone and not at any time.
| PaulHoule wrote:
| I like the list.
|
| It's the kind of list an English professor might make, not
| necessarily a sci-fi fan. In particular, Dick's genius was
| recognized only after his death.
|
| Even though sci-fi sometimes rises above other genre
| literature, it's not taken that seriously by literary types.
| Baudrillard talks a lot about Dick and Ballard and that's it.
| Stanislaw Lem (whose _Cyberiad_ ought to be on that list
| instead of _The Futurological Congress_ ) himself said that
| Phillip K. Dick was on a whole other level than other sci-fi
| writers.
|
| Notably the list subverts the category of "novel" by adding a
| lot of things (comic books, concept albums) that aren't really
| novels.
|
| I think Fred Pohl is missing (say _Gateway_ ) and also Joe
| Halderman ( _Worlds_!). I 'd rather see any Frank Herbert book
| but _Dune_ (say _Whipping Star_ or _The Santaroga Barrier_.)
| For that matter I 'd like to see something from Heinlein before
| he had the stroke like _The Moon is a Harsh Mistress_ or _Glory
| Road_. I 'd also want to see Niven's _Neutron Star_ (a set of
| short stories that read like a novel) but despite some "new
| wave" sensibilities Niven comes across as reactionary today
| because the Tor Books revival ( _Forge of God_ and _Enders
| Game_ ) of sci-fi in the 1980s liked Heinlein and Niven and Doc
| Smith better than LeGunn, Dick, Ballard, Herbert, etc.
|
| On the other hand, put a sci-fi fan in charge of making this
| list and it's no doubt they'll add a stick of books from some
| author who is a "no account" in literary circles like Piers
| Anthony -- still I would try to slip him in at his most
| psychedelic.
| routerl wrote:
| > Dick's genius was recognized only after his death.
|
| Which we should give credit for: I only found PKD due to
| Jonathan Lethem's advocacy. PKD fans are likely to enjoy
| Lethem's sci-fi, especially _Gun, With Occasional Music_.
|
| The crew of writers responsible for elevating PKD from pulp
| to cult deserve some attention, especially from PKD fans (aka
| "Dick-heads", which is just the most perfect name for a
| fandom).
|
| > I'd like to see something from Heinlein before he had the
| stroke like The Moon is a Harsh Mistress
|
| Plus one for _The Moon is a Harsh Mistress_. That 's probably
| the best of Heinlein's work.
| deng wrote:
| This is a list for New Wave SciFi, not all SciFi, and Pohl
| and Halderman are usually not considered as "New Wave"
| authors.
| DougMerritt wrote:
| > Dick's genius was recognized only after his death
|
| Yes and no. It should certainly be noted that he was _very_
| popular during his life, not a nearly unknown author. Book
| clubs selected multiple of his novels, as one of many
| examples of that.
|
| His stuff became a huge fad when they made many movies based
| on his works, but that's not the same thing as him previously
| being an unsung genius.
| Finnucane wrote:
| PKD's books didn't generally sell all that well during his
| life. In those days the sfbc picked up everything. And most
| of his books were OP when he died. I can remember having to
| scrounge around for them.
| mbb70 wrote:
| Pkd was a genius, an addict, and most importantly, got paid by
| the page.
|
| Jonathan Letham's Amnesia Moon (mentioned at the bottom) is my
| favorite "how pkd would write if he weren't ripped on speed
| 24/7"
|
| Guess it's time to reread it. And ubik, and fmytps, and the
| lathe of heaven, and hyperion, and embassytown and...
| sonofhans wrote:
| If you haven't, check out "Philip K Dick is Dead, Alas," by
| Micheal Bishop. Same vibes -- Dick without the speed :)
| vodou wrote:
| I really love this era of sci-fi, a kind of short window between
| the immature boy fantasies before and the dull hard SF the came
| after. The weirdness, the hallucinatory, the craziness! And most
| importantly, so many great writers.
| windowshopping wrote:
| Enders game, speaker for the dead, ringworld, and many others
| are post-1983. Are those dull hard sci fi?
| ur-whale wrote:
| > Enders game, speaker for the dead
|
| Truly not in the same category as stuff from e.g. PKD, by a
| very wide margin, especially speaker for the dead.
| windowshopping wrote:
| Well, matter of opinion, and judging by critics' lists your
| opinion is the minority.
| demondemidi wrote:
| "Ender's Game" is a little boy fantasy, almost literally.
| zem wrote:
| not to mention the vorkosigan series!
| ur-whale wrote:
| > the dull hard SF the came after
|
| To be fair to the crowd that came after, the average
| consumption of creativity-enhancing substances was a lot less
| in the 80's and forward than in the [60's, early 80's] period.
| andybak wrote:
| Doesn't Hard SF both predate and postdate New Wave? It's a
| thread that weaves through the whole of science-fiction. (heck
| - didn't Jules Verne once diss H.G. Wells for not being "hard
| sci-fi enough"?)
| runeofdoom wrote:
| If you're seeking weirdness and hallucinatory craziness, I
| think Peter Watts, Tamsyn Muir, and Charles Stross (among many
| others) can absolutely deliver.
| demondemidi wrote:
| It's really hard to overstate the impact of PKD's later works and
| JG Ballard. Having read about 50% of this list, I think all of
| our modern dystopia, paranoia, and existential SciFi sprouted
| from their insane seeds. And the depth of LeGuin's exploration of
| social, sexual, and economic identity in alien worlds sticks out
| like a sore thumb compared to her peers.
|
| Damn, tho, the book cover for The Three Stigmata... is
| fascinating. I always pictured him as just a cyborg octogenarian
| but now I can't unsee this. I miss that artwork.
|
| Aaaaand, it would be nice of the page author would put these in a
| CSV at the bottom so that I can make a checklist!
| PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
| I don't know enough to know if your ascription of those "ills"
| to those authors is accurate, but I certainly find it
| refreshing to see someone asserting that no, it's not "just
| fiction" and the art we create and consume changes us, and
| changes society, not always in a good way.
| retrocryptid wrote:
| I've often thought that if the American libertarian party
| renamed themselves "The LeGuin Party" they might get a lot
| more members.
| runeofdoom wrote:
| Such members would be unlikely to support their "I've got
| mine, fuck you" ideology.
| morelisp wrote:
| The converse of this actually exists. There's a fan award
| called the Prometheus Award given by the "Libertarian
| Futurists" which is often jokingly called the "Scottish
| Socialist Award", given how many times they've awarded it
| to works that are perhaps equally anti-extant-state but
| with virtually all other politics at odds. (And in some
| cases, IMO, strong misreadings of the awarded work.)
| ranprieur wrote:
| It's nice to see both Engine Summer and In Watermelon Sugar on
| this list. If you like mellow postapocalpyse, check out Hitoshi
| Ashinano's manga Yokohama Kaidashi Kikou.
| retrocryptid wrote:
| Hmm. Just thinking about west meeting east... Hiroshima Mon
| Amour is, in many ways, a cyberpunk work in the way the concept
| of memory as a first-class character with its own life is in
| clear display.
| corethree wrote:
| 15. Rocannon's World has a stupid tagline in the title. Ignore
| it.
|
| This book is short and is supposed to be the first part of a
| novella called "worlds of exile and illusion" which consists of a
| trilogy of stories.
|
| Read the novella of 3 stories in order. Do not just read
| rocanonns world individually.
|
| When read Separately the stories are your standard sci Fi fare
| but when wholistically read the trilogy becomes one of the most
| epic stories I have ever read. All three stories seem only
| slightly connected but as a trilogy all three stories combine to
| form a completely different epic tale that spans the entire
| universe.
|
| I didn't really like Ursula's left hand of darkness. It was ok,
| but worlds of exile and illusion blew me away. But for some
| reason most people don't know about this gem and I think it's
| because the books were initially released separately.
|
| The whole thing needs to be read in order as one book, the length
| of each story actually makes it better fit for a single book too,
| link:
|
| Worlds of Exile and Illusion (Hainish) https://a.co/d/0jtS7Zb
|
| Guaranteed there's nothing else like it in sci Fi both on
| television and in other sci Fi books.
| zem wrote:
| I read the entire hainish cycle back to back in chronological
| order once, and it was a superb experience. the books aren't
| technically a series but they do build up a coherent universe
| and timeline between them.
| corethree wrote:
| I would say the first three books form a series. An
| underlying story of a great interstellar war and how that war
| was first lost than won.
|
| Of course you won't be able to put all of this together until
| the last book in the trilogy, the last chapter.
|
| The other books can be read out of order, but the first three
| are a trilogy.
| thriftwy wrote:
| There's no Mote In God's Eye...
|
| It seems to match the time frame and it's one of the best books
| known to me.
| aardvark179 wrote:
| It is also very definitely not new wave.
| thriftwy wrote:
| It is a very advanced book from literary standpoint. The new
| wave is now an "old" wave with all the weird stuff, but Niven
| would read as fresh today as back in the 70s.
| ur-whale wrote:
| No mention of any piece by Jack Vance ?
|
| For something to claim to cover the golden age of Sci-Fi ?
|
| Very weird.
| andybak wrote:
| New Wave has a specific meaning and it's one that by definition
| excludes another specific period ("Golden Age")
|
| I'm not quite sure whether Jack Vance is regarded as part of
| either?
|
| EDIT - ah - further down the page there's a mention of Golden
| Age. But it seems to only be in terms of precursors and
| influences on New Wave:
|
| > The following titles from science fiction's so-called Golden
| Age (1934-1963) are listed here in order to provide historical
| context.
| deng wrote:
| Yes, this is not a list of "Best SciFi books from 1964 to
| 1983", it is specifically meant to cover the subgenre of New
| Wave. This is also why for instance "Flowers for Algernon" or
| "The forever war" is not there, since they are not considered
| New Wave but are for sure classics that would be on a generic
| "Best SciFi" list.
| root_axis wrote:
| Needs more Gene Wolfe :)
| bouvin wrote:
| Any SF list is incomplete without him! However, he was never
| New Wave, which this list is.
| aardvark179 wrote:
| But it does include The Fifth Head of Cerberus. I think only
| work up to Book of the New Sun would fall into the specified
| time period, so most of his work would qualify even if it
| were new wave.
| AceJohnny2 wrote:
| Related, someone on Reddit re-read all the Hugo/Nebula/Locus/WFA
| winning books and reviewed them. I found their rating system, and
| how well the books aged, very worthwhile:
|
| https://www.reddit.com/user/RabidFoxz/comments/stwi8k/vol_6_...
| retrocryptid wrote:
| Good list, but Orson Scott Card is a bit over-represnted. I
| recently re-read scheismatrix (plus) after 35 years. My spouse
| found a copy of Burning Chrome in the local tiny library, so
| I'm likely to review a few more cyberpunk works. I have fond
| memories of the 64-83 era, but it took me a while to warm to
| Sterling and Gibson. It almost seems like every new sci-fi
| story has a bit of cyberpunk embedded in it. All the cyberpunk
| authors were (I believe) influenced by Ballard and PKD.
|
| Anyway. Thx for the pointer.
| justsomehnguy wrote:
| > found a copy of Burning Chrome
|
| most of Gibson's works I had read in ncview.exe
|
| I doubt I can replicate the experience now *sad smile*
| drdaeman wrote:
| There are a bunch of terminal apps that emulate CRT look-
| and-feel, and you can surely run NC in an emulator.
| justsomehnguy wrote:
| Sure, but I wans't talking about the visuals alone.
|
| I can run NC in DosBox on the glorious 43".
|
| I read Gibson on 15" in the native 320x200 and my 40Mb
| HDD shook the table table on the seeks.
| drmpeg wrote:
| I couldn't finish Neuromancer. I guess I'm just not a fan of
| the antihero thing. Toward the end of the book, I just didn't
| care what happened to him.
| MarketingJason wrote:
| Hyperion was awesome. Canterbury Tales-style narrative focused
| on a group of pilgrims on a crazy planet steeped in legend set
| against a galaxy-spanning empire that is being threatened by a
| faceless looming external threat. As if that wasn't enough, the
| pilgrims are threatened from within by mystery, murder and
| betrayal as much as they are hounded by the immortal blade-
| covered daemon they know they are eventually destined to face.
|
| Each pilgrims tale is unique and told in a different vibe -
| from pious and regretful to vulgar and indifferent.
| brazzy wrote:
| Seconded. The segement "The River Lethe's Taste is Bitter" is
| the most heard-rendingly sad thing I have ever read.
| retrocryptid wrote:
| Man. Someone really likes PKD. And sure, his stories are great
| reality-benders. Maybe we could use a little bit more of that
| these days. And I love Ballard. I think PKD is slightly over-
| represented on this list and Ursula K Leguin slightly under-
| represented. But I'm happy to see some of the other authors made
| the cut.
|
| I think if I were to do a list like this I would pick 10 or 12
| authors from the era and mention which works express the literary
| zeitgeist.
|
| Dang. Maybe I _SHOULD_ do that.
| norir wrote:
| It is wild that PKD and UKLG both went to Berkeley HS at the
| same time (though UKLG has said that neither she nor any of her
| friends had any memory of him).
| danidiaz wrote:
| I would also recommend the site "Science Fiction Ruminations":
| https://sciencefictionruminations.com/
|
| Lots of thoughtful sf book reviews with a heavy (but not
| exclusive) focus on the New Wave.
| deng wrote:
| Good list, though of course I have only read maybe half, if even.
| A bit too heavy on Dick and Ballard for my taste, but I'm very
| happy to see James Tiptree Jr. (Alice Sheldon) and Octavia Butler
| on there, which are too often forgotten
| DougMerritt wrote:
| James Tiptree Jr (yes, aka Alice Sheldon) is often forgotten?
| That would be criminal!
| everyone wrote:
| I appreciate any list of sci-fi books, and it's interesting to
| see, but for me, this list sucks. It's very fantasy / literature
| heavy as opposed to hard sci-fi. Seems like a list of "sci-fi"
| books from someone who doesnt really like sci-fi. For me it's
| like a bottom 75 list.
| deng wrote:
| It says "New Wave SciFi" in the title, so it only covers "New
| Wave Scifi". It's perfectly fine to not like the genre, of
| course, but that's not a fault of this list.
| bouvin wrote:
| 'Bottom 75 list'?
|
| You have not read much SF, have you? Sturgeon's Law [1] was
| created for a reason. If you think this is as bad as SF gets, I
| turn your attention to Robert A. Heinlein's "To Sail Beyond the
| Sunset".
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturgeon's_law
| gcanyon wrote:
| Making my pitch for John Varley's work. The Eight Worlds setup is
| rich, interesting, and mind-expanding.
| ryantgtg wrote:
| And it's still going! It was refreshing to have a new book set
| in that world. I'm a big fan, and think a few more of his books
| should have been on this list.
| deng wrote:
| It seems a lot of people here are unaware that "New Wave Science
| Fiction" is not another name for this specific time period but
| rather a subgenre of SciFi which started and got popular during
| that period. See also
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Wave_science_fiction
|
| Of course very good other SciFi was written during that period as
| well.
| worik wrote:
| I am unconvinced
|
| Phillip K Dick wrote some absolute classics. And some utter
| dross. In this period
|
| I do think there is a rough arc of transition, but I disagree
| that there are definable ages
|
| It is good sport of arbitrary classification but has no useful
| meaning in selecting books
|
| Ax a counter example there is TV, where technology defined clear
| boundaries cable then streaming
|
| Nothing, not even kindle, has hat such an effect in literature.
| It is gradual change from the 1940s through the twenty first
| century. 1940 very different from 2023, but no boundaries
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2023-11-25 23:01 UTC)