[HN Gopher] 60% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck, Re...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       60% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck, Report says
        
       Author : safaa1993
       Score  : 41 points
       Date   : 2023-11-22 19:22 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.blobstreaming.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.blobstreaming.org)
        
       | ge96 wrote:
       | I'm one baby... dumb choices, even hitting 6 figs, still poor/in
       | debt ha. I did give some away though so wasn't just being
       | wasteful. But I forgot my place considering I've been in debt
       | since 2010.
        
         | easeout wrote:
         | Would you be open to illustrating in general terms what your
         | situation is like?
        
           | ge96 wrote:
           | Sure this is a "burner" account
           | 
           | I had a poor background but I had grants so I did have access
           | to education but I was bad at it eg. failed. I was lucky to
           | pick up web development to try and get rich from high traffic
           | ads. That did not happen. I worked in factories/restaurants
           | and did some freelancing. I landed my first W2 agency job at
           | $40K/yr then $50K/yr. I climbed the ladder, SWE contractor
           | job $84K/yr then a failed startup thing, $110K after that. I
           | then quit my job since I didn't want to learn C#/.NET (dumb).
           | Was hard to get a job for a couple months, about to go work
           | in Amazon Warehouse till another local agency picked me up
           | for $75K/yr where I'm at now.
           | 
           | All the while I've been either burning money (eg. POS car
           | repair, or expensive toys) or helping my families (last 3
           | years) I think I gave them $60K+ in total. Current net worth
           | is -$80K.
           | 
           | Anyway I have been very fortunate/lucky I'm just dumb.
           | 
           | I hate my job at the moment so I'm either going to get
           | another job or get fired... repeat the debt implode cycle
           | again.
        
             | rngname22 wrote:
             | Hating your job is a matter of the real, material
             | conditions * your own perspective, optimism, ability to
             | make lemonade out of lemons, and pain tolerance.
             | 
             | Unfortunately it's often seen as easier to change the
             | former than the latter (which seems to perhaps be developed
             | throughout childhood and one's upbringing and former
             | experiences), but I would perhaps try to brainstorm if you
             | can ways to improve your own subjective perspective/lens
             | itself. If you quit your prior job, and with your new one
             | hate and want to quit it/think your discomfort for it'll
             | get you fired, maybe you could try to reach out to those
             | around you in your peer network (maybe a former dev
             | coworker or boss or a current coworker and try to get their
             | perspective on things). Maybe there's something with your
             | own ability to tolerate discomfort or find solace in good
             | aspects of your jobs that you could find.
        
               | ge96 wrote:
               | The thing is, without debt, my job is decent, people
               | would be glad. But it is also brain dead development. We
               | outsource our work and I just glue it together... And
               | then they recently have really gotten into micromanaging
               | where every minute of the day is tracked vs. hey, you
               | have two weeks to complete this sprint. That's what an
               | agency is I guess.
               | 
               | My ideal job I'm not qualified for unless I do it as a
               | hobby eg. robotics. So I will free myself financially
               | eventually and then do that for fun.
               | 
               | And I will continue to help my families since they're in
               | a worse situation than me. Hopefully I remember being
               | poor. I used to dream of having a Lamborghini Aventador
               | but now I realize that money could buy me a house with
               | land somewhere.
        
             | shipscode wrote:
             | Nothing dumb about helping your family, so it doesn't sound
             | too bad to me all things considered.
        
             | CoastalCoder wrote:
             | Sorry things are looking so bleak. We're pulling for you.
        
       | dangus wrote:
       | I feel like this is not a very useful article without a
       | comparison to data over time.
       | 
       | I also think we could turn the numbers optimistic and say that
       | 40% of Americans _not_ living paycheck-to-paycheck is pretty
       | impressive.
       | 
       | Finally, I think if you ask the question "are you worried about
       | finances?" of course most people are going to say "yes."
        
         | ImPostingOnHN wrote:
         | _> I also think we could turn the numbers optimistic and say
         | that 40% of Americans not living paycheck-to-paycheck is pretty
         | impressive._
         | 
         | I don't think we could say that at all. Only 40% isn't only
         | unimpressive, it's depressing. The ideal would be 100%.
         | 
         |  _> I think if you ask the question  "are you worried about
         | finances?" of course most people are going to say "yes."_
         | 
         | I think that's a safe bet at the moment, considering most
         | Americans are living paycheck to paycheck at the moment.
        
           | rayiner wrote:
           | Sure, utopia is preferable to reality. But how is that a
           | helpful assertion?
        
             | ImPostingOnHN wrote:
             | That is not an honest phrasing of what I said.
             | 
             | More to the point, bad doesn't become good even if you
             | can't do better. 40% is bad. If 40% was the best we can do,
             | it would still be bad.
        
             | fuzzfactor wrote:
             | Look on the bright side, it means at least 30 to 40% remain
             | to be fleeced before serious changes will be made.
        
         | 082349872349872 wrote:
         | Someone else's numbers gave 38% in 2012:
         | https://consumerfed.org/press_release/many-families-struggle...
         | 
         | ... which doesn't really say that much; I'll leave it to
         | someone on your side of the Atlantic to find historical census
         | data (eg https://www.census.gov/topics/income-
         | poverty/wealth.html ) and cross index it against historical
         | income data (eg
         | https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2023/demo/p60-27...
         | ) to determine if --with a presumably consistent methodology--
         | there have been any significant developments in who is living
         | on what they have and who on what they have coming.
        
       | gumballindie wrote:
       | Wondering how the situation looks like in the uk. The country is
       | basically in limp mode.
        
         | clnq wrote:
         | Generally, not good. Many SWEs in games want to leave for
         | cheaper countries or countries with better pay (US). Our
         | salaries are low, but we don't have a good social safety net to
         | show for it (i.e. our public healthcare is practically
         | inaccessible due to wait times in hospitals, and public dental
         | -- forget about it). So it's a raw deal.
         | 
         | I don't think about how people on average salaries live. Or
         | people with kids, or both. It is too depressing of a thought.
         | One third of kids now live in poverty, more than one in five
         | adults -- a better stat thanks in part to professional DINK
         | couples threading water. Poverty is below paycheck-to-paycheck.
         | 
         | There are no clear prospects for things improving. No
         | meaningful political action. See BBC, Guardian, etc for what
         | the government is concerned about instead. There's no point
         | turning this into a political discussion and beating the
         | proverbial dead horse.
         | 
         | Upskilling and migrating into more well paid jobs is hard. If
         | you didn't have enough time to study outside of work before,
         | now with the CPI rising and your real wage dropping, you have
         | even less time.
         | 
         | Even if it sounds grim, people are finding individual
         | solutions, like leaving.
         | 
         | The last two years in the games industry has seen a lot of
         | attrition just from people becoming unable to sustain their
         | lifestyles in the UK. And a lot of these people are
         | exceptionally skilled 10+ years of exp professionals, and very
         | driven, so they deserve at least an average lifestyle.
         | 
         | What is going on thanks to Brexit and all that is an injustice
         | to them. And good on them for looking out for themselves first.
         | Whenever a colleague leaves for a better life elsewhere, I am
         | happy.
        
           | gumballindie wrote:
           | Probably the most accurate description of what's happening in
           | the uk.
           | 
           | On your final paragraph, I can confirm that pay in east
           | europe, and the standard of living, are higher. I am in the
           | uk but have links there and people just dont understand how
           | someone can work in the uk in tech an not afford a property
           | or a family, whereas in east european countries that's the
           | norm. While it is not my case, I can absolutely tell that my
           | peers in that region of the world are better off than i am,
           | and by british standards i am pretty good.
           | 
           | The irony of brexit is that somehow karma is turning the uk
           | in that which it despised.
           | 
           | The potholes in roads, failing health care, rising poverty,
           | increasing government corruption and an ever increasing mass
           | of people demanding dubious political action, makes me think
           | the culture of the uk has seriously regressed in that it
           | can't sustain itself.
           | 
           | There is almost no company that has provided a service
           | without more than minor issues in the past couple of years
           | and thats alarming.
           | 
           | I frequently read stats about various uk institutions, such
           | as hospitals or schools and they all have official good and
           | outstanding reviews while google and other review sites show
           | a very grim reality. This means the uk is faking statistics
           | to appear better than it is.
           | 
           | I am extremely worried about the country. I dont think it
           | will exist for long and it will split into its historical
           | regions.
        
       | asylteltine wrote:
       | Considering how I see people spending money in the mall, I'm not
       | surprised
        
       | user568439 wrote:
       | I never understood people living like this. I've never lived
       | paycheck to paycheck even though with my first job as SWE 1 month
       | after my graduation I was earning 900EUR a month. I went to live
       | on my own because it was in another city and of course I had to
       | share apartment with more people during 5 with years. I did that
       | until I had a salary where the rent for living alone in a place I
       | liked was below 30% of my netto salary.
       | 
       | The only debt I ever had is my mortgage and I have savings to
       | cover for at least 3 years without working. Without counting that
       | I would get unemployment plus some other investments that would
       | protect me more.
       | 
       | All this lifestyle didn't stop me from traveling a lot (sometimes
       | for months) and having nice things. But except for the home down
       | payment, I never spent more in a year than I earned.
       | 
       | But I also admit that I missed a lot of good investment
       | opportunities due to my risk aversion
        
         | lovich wrote:
         | Bud if you had a software job one month out of college I don't
         | think you've really had to interface with how bad shit gets.
         | 
         | A large group of these people are having a revenue problem, not
         | a spending problem
         | 
         | I walked out of college in the Great Recession with a 900/month
         | student loan debt and paying 500/month for rent in the
         | shittiest apartment in the area with two roommates. I could
         | only get minimum wage jobs that would send you home if you ever
         | got close to full time so you didn't get benefits. Working
         | 50-60 hours a week got me about 1400-1700 a month before tax. I
         | frequently had to steal food if I wanted to eat even every
         | other day and healthcare was completely out the window. There
         | was no improving that situation by being more careful about
         | spending because there was nothing to cut. That was paycheck to
         | paycheck with zero luxuries and not even all the necessities
        
         | jewayne wrote:
         | At some point I came to realize that a large chunk of the
         | population in my country (USA) live their entire lives
         | paycheck-to-paycheck, never getting ahead. I think even in the
         | very best of times, this number never gets below 20% or so. And
         | that's not to say that all these people are irresponsible, far
         | from it. Often it's just some combination of low/unpredictable
         | income and life happening too fast.
         | 
         | Anybody who has the opportunity to build wealth (as I have) has
         | to recognize that at least part of that is luck.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2023-11-22 23:02 UTC)