[HN Gopher] VMware is now part of Broadcom
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       VMware is now part of Broadcom
        
       Author : tonoto
       Score  : 153 points
       Date   : 2023-11-22 15:01 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.broadcom.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.broadcom.com)
        
       | thaanpaa wrote:
       | That's an interesting development. Since the ransomware outbreak
       | earlier this year, there has been an increase in security
       | concerns about VMware. I've heard more complaints about the
       | lateness of security patches and the difficulties people have had
       | installing them, etc. I'm curious if this has anything to do with
       | that.
        
         | brohoolio wrote:
         | vCenter is a huge target. VMware docs differ from the the
         | Crowdstrike recommendations, with security vendors saying
         | basically to lock it down to the 9th degree or suffer the
         | consequences.
        
         | convolvatron wrote:
         | this has been in the pipe for more than a year
        
       | saltminer wrote:
       | We are already seeing the squeeze from this. We have recently
       | been informed they are dropping their academic list pricing
       | entirely, which will cause many institutions to pay double or
       | even triple what they do now. As a result, several major
       | universities (specifically the Big Ten but I'm sure many others
       | are as well) are looking into alternatives to reduce license
       | costs ahead of next year's contract negotiations.
       | 
       | Source: Someone higher up in my department.
        
         | rf15 wrote:
         | Even by the standards of blind corp greed, that's a bad move -
         | you want people to know your platform when they're done
         | studying, so they can advocate for it in their jobs. Why would
         | you destroy this revenue stream? Unless they have no longterm
         | vision for VMware and just want to bleed it dry as quickly as
         | possible.
        
           | warriormonk5 wrote:
           | Yeah that's the idea. They hold corporations hostage that are
           | slow to move and increase prices.
        
             | rrdharan wrote:
             | And it's entirely plausible they make enough money from
             | that to buy the next VMware in another decade or so to
             | repeat the cycle. Sustainable bottom feeding as a strategy.
        
           | phpisthebest wrote:
           | Broadcom looks at Orcale and says "Can I have some of that
           | business model please"...
           | 
           | They exist on legacy vendor lockin, and will milk customers
           | until there is nothing left, which will take decades or more
        
             | tsimionescu wrote:
             | Any student can download and use Oracle DBs and most other
             | products for free legally right from Oracle's sites. This
             | suggests that even Oracle understands how important this
             | pipeline is.
        
             | NikolaNovak wrote:
             | But to me, Oracle is the canonical example of getting nerds
             | while they're young.
             | 
             | In university, I had access to Oracle databases, Oracle
             | manuals, Oracle Linux, etc. Not through some special
             | university approved lab set up - I could just go and
             | download them. Even their acquired software like PeopleSoft
             | etc.
             | 
             | I had NONE of that for DB2 or AIX, for example.
             | 
             | And their respective market share, I believe based on no
             | evidence but strong belief, belies that strategy.
             | 
             | (disclaimer, I guess - I work for IBM, but ironically as an
             | Oracle consultant... the early access really _did_ work :-)
        
               | phpisthebest wrote:
               | Many people have talked about this...
               | 
               | People do know that oracle has ALOT more software then
               | their DB right?
               | 
               | I mean their DB is the least vendor lockin thing they
               | sell.....
        
           | mschuster91 wrote:
           | > you want people to know your platform when they're done
           | studying, so they can advocate for it in their jobs. Why
           | would you destroy this revenue stream?
           | 
           | That was how Adobe ran for a looooong time, up until and
           | including CS6. They didn't give a f..k about piracy beyond
           | something that could trivially be circumvented by a keygen
           | and a few well-placed /etc/hosts entries, and that was what
           | made them the utterly dominant power in anything creative -
           | people were used to _years_ of working with Photoshop (a
           | friend of mine started with photography at age 13!), and so
           | they demanded from employers that they use Photoshop.
           | Incidentally, that also was what kept Apple afloat before the
           | iPod /iPhone days - Adobe stuff just worked fine on Apple
           | hardware but was a nightmare on Windows, so people also
           | demanded Macs for their work.
           | 
           | The advent of CC came once Adobe had achieved that lock-in
           | and started milking its customers for all they were worth,
           | and additionally they opened up a load of legitimate
           | customers as well who didn't feel like dropping a few grand
           | on Adobe stuff but who cares about 50$ a month?
        
         | dangerboysteve wrote:
         | XCP-NG
        
           | smegsicle wrote:
           | i thought i heard kvm was winning, is there still a good
           | reason to go with xen?
        
             | dangerboysteve wrote:
             | All are good choices.
        
           | stock_toaster wrote:
           | or proxmox
        
         | depereo wrote:
         | They're pulling entirely out of some countries, too, so here in
         | New Zealand they're apparently going to send comms on the 27th,
         | have a seven day 'consultation' and then probably give everyone
         | the date they don't have a job.
        
         | brohoolio wrote:
         | VMware is notorious for continuously changing SKUs and
         | licensing models to make things more expensive. I would suspect
         | that Broadcom will continue putting the squeeze on customers.
         | If hyper-V (or whatever it's named now) was a viable
         | alternative, I suspect you'd see tons of folks fleeing VMware.
        
           | baq wrote:
           | Azure runs on basically hyper-v I hear (which would make
           | sense, right?), so it can't be _that_ bad?
        
             | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
             | There's bad tech, there's bad user/admin experience, and
             | there's bad licensing/costs. They might just mean that ex.
             | the costs are awful, which I expect Azure wouldn't care
             | about. (Disclaimer: I haven't used hyper-v, I don't know if
             | any of these apply)
        
             | csydas wrote:
             | HyperV has been overlooked by Microsoft for awhile in favor
             | of Azure. You can get a basic HyperV host up and running
             | pretty easily (even for free with the Core edition), but I
             | would not call it great. My experience with HyperV is not a
             | pleasant one as it struggles a lot and the error messages
             | are often extremely cryptic. Similarly, there are some
             | pretty outstanding bugs that existed for years that
             | Microsoft didn't bother to fix -- for example, since HyperV
             | 2019, there has been an impactful RCT bug+ that can be
             | triggered if you upgraded your HyperV hosts in a specific
             | path (2016-2019) and any backup solution used HyperV's RCT.
             | The result of the bug is extremely poor performance on any
             | VM using RCT. Supposedly there was a patch last or this
             | month that addressed it, but I've not heard any positive
             | news from clients about this patch. Nevermind that Windows
             | updates have frequently broken core HyperV functionality
             | (as recent as December 2022 there were bugs where you
             | couldn't start Virtual Machines or even create new ones due
             | to bad Windows updates)
             | 
             | From my perspective, Microsoft doesn't want to deal with
             | HyperV anymore, they want your machines up on Azure. I'd
             | actively advise against HyperV simply because I don't see
             | that Microsoft cares about on-premises.
             | 
             | + RCT == Changed Block Tracking for HyperV, basically
             | faster backups by allowing the backup application to know
             | exactly which blocks of the virtual disks have changed
             | since the last backup and the backup application can do
             | fast incrementals via this means.
        
         | AtlasBarfed wrote:
         | So ... for the corp/academic crowd, what is it VMWare does that
         | VirtualBox doesn't do?
         | 
         | I don't understand orgs that deal with companies with a
         | loooooonnnnnngggggg history of predatory pricing and sales
         | shenanigans and not have active mitigation plans.
         | 
         | Who has Oracle that isn't actively planning going to Postgres
         | or MariaDB? Of course I'd say the same thing for IBM in the
         | 1970s, Microsoft in the 1990s, and AWS today.
         | 
         | VMWare obviously has a lot of the same.
        
           | tiernano wrote:
           | Servers and enterprise.
        
           | mr_mitm wrote:
           | VirtualBox is also Oracle, which is why I switched to
           | KVM/QEMU. But I'm also not an Enterprise user.
        
           | jabroni_salad wrote:
           | Does virtualbox have an equivalent to VCSA? Can I failover a
           | datacenter with it?
           | 
           | virtualbox is pretty capable but I only view it as equivalent
           | to vmware workstation.
        
             | X-Istence wrote:
             | No, you can't failover a datacenter with VirtualBox.
        
           | Stratoscope wrote:
           | > _what is it VMWare does that VirtualBox doesn 't do?_
           | 
           | For my specific use case, it's display responsiveness.
           | 
           | My main work machine is a ThinkPad X1 Extreme Gen 3. Our
           | development environment is Ubuntu, so when I got the machine
           | our IT guy had helpfully installed Ubuntu on it.
           | 
           | There were two major problems though. I could only get my
           | AirPods to pair as headphones, not as a full headset with
           | microphone. And worse, I couldn't get my triple-monitor setup
           | to work at all. (The ThinkPad has a 15" 4K display, and I use
           | two 24" 4K displays with it: one in landscape mode
           | immediately above the ThinkPad display, another in portrait
           | mode to the left.) I could only get two displays out of the
           | three to come up.
           | 
           | I did like the hardware quite a lot - I've been a huge
           | ThinkPad fan for 25 years. So I immediately bought a similar
           | machine for personal use. It came with Windows, and both of
           | the above items worked "out of the box".
           | 
           | So I looked at the bottom of the work machine and saw that it
           | came with a Windows license. I downloaded the Windows 10 ISO
           | from Lenovo and installed Windows on it, figuring I would run
           | Ubuntu in a VM.
           | 
           | I tried VirtualBox first, and it worked, but the display
           | wasn't smooth. For example, I often use the Windows key +
           | left/right arrow to move a window to one side of the display
           | or the other. Ubuntu does a "sliding" animation when you do
           | this, but it looked like it was only refreshing the display
           | every tenth of a second or so.
           | 
           | So I tried VMware and it was perfect. The display is just
           | about as responsive as running Ubuntu on the bare metal -
           | every transition and animation is perfectly smooth.
        
           | wpm wrote:
           | VirutalBox is a barebones type 2 hypervisor with only basic
           | orchestration, backup, networking, management features, if
           | any.
           | 
           | ESXi and the VMWare products built on top of it
           | (vCenter/vSphere) are not even comparable to VB, other than
           | that they both can run virtual machines. vSphere can move
           | running VMs between storage or compute hosts without
           | interruption, can failover between storage or compute, can
           | failover between networking outages (thanks to virtual
           | switches and the ecosystem of hardware support around it),
           | and provides a platform for additional third party add ons
           | for automated backups and recovery. Not to mention easy role
           | based SSO access. My entire university's infrastructure was
           | virtualized on VMWare aside from a few domain controllers and
           | the Netapp storage clusters it all ran on, and the equally
           | large Linux/KVM infrastructure and the HPC datacenter that
           | ran a bunch of other stuff for...reasons (higher ed is fun).
           | And as an added bonus, desktop type 2 hypervisors like
           | Workstation or Fusion integrate perfectly into it. I used to
           | manage a dozen Windows and Linux VMs straight from VMWare
           | Fusion on my Mac and still do at home in my little VMUG
           | cluster.
           | 
           | It's like comparing a Chevy Spark to an aircraft carrier,
           | except you built an entire medium to large sized
           | organization's infrastructure on top of it. You can't just
           | switch overnight unless you want to stop making money for a
           | while. For most orgs who can justify the already steep price,
           | moving away from VMWare onto something else will mean
           | multiple years long projects requiring thousands of person-
           | hours to complete, redundant efforts (as the old stuff can't
           | just go away until the new stuff is battle tested), on top of
           | probable hardware purchases since VMWare and its demands have
           | shaped on-site datacenter spend, layout, and networking for
           | years.
           | 
           | The actual VMs are the easiest part to move since they are
           | just some virtual disks and a config file. It's all the other
           | supporting stuff and high availability that need to
           | configured and battle tested that will take forever. It's not
           | something you can _plan_ to do ahead of needing to do it
           | because doing so would mean doing the same job twice for
           | years for a bet that you can 't just weather some higher
           | costs for a year or two before you can move stuff onto
           | cheaper platforms (and train/hire for expertise).
        
           | NikolaNovak wrote:
           | First, VirtualBox is an Oracle product, so I'm not sure which
           | side you're advocating :)
           | 
           | More to the point, I think VirtualBox is the equivalent,
           | broadly, of VMWare Workstation/VMWare Player; which is a
           | specific individual product that runs on desktop as type 2
           | hypervisor and a teeny tiny bit of the broader VMWare
           | ecosystem (probably neglible part of their revenue).
           | 
           | I don't know if VirtualBox has any product or share in
           | server/datacentre space? Whereas, VMware is absolutely
           | positively huge. The core ESXi product, sure; but again the
           | ecosystem around it, from vSPhere/vCenter to vRealize and
           | Orchestrator and nsx and vSan and everything else, the
           | management and automation flows are pretty well integrated
           | (externally; I'm sure it's a acquired/developed mess
           | internally as every other IT product ever:).
           | 
           | It's a bit like... I don't know, "what does Window Explorer
           | have that File Commander doesn't"? It's a valid question that
           | has a rational answer which is useful for limited use cases,
           | but it misses the very very big forest (Windows and Office
           | and Azure etc) for very minor trees inside of it
           | 
           | Hope that helps a bit?
        
         | jbverschoor wrote:
         | Migrate to proxmox.. it's great
        
           | SV_BubbleTime wrote:
           | Without knowing almost anything about it, I run Proximo on a
           | box at home.
           | 
           | Is it at all comparable to ESX?
           | 
           | I kind of assumed the Proxmox was just the free and cheap and
           | bare bones option.
        
             | ThinkBeat wrote:
             | In terms of features, they match on the simple / broad
             | features. When it comes to scale, reliability, defined
             | compatibility, and supporting tools that is a big no.
             | 
             | I have worked on VMWare stack in previous jobs. but I run
             | proxmox at home now.
             | 
             | Free ESXi without VMware tools is somewhat harder actually.
             | Still far better reliability.
        
           | NexRebular wrote:
           | or to MNX Triton or vanilla SmartOS, they're the greatest.
        
         | linuxftw wrote:
         | I think it's a pretty smart move. Educational institutions
         | don't have the engineering capacity to change their datacenters
         | overnight. They'll be paying the higher fees for years to come.
        
       | boiler_up800 wrote:
       | RIP CloudHealth customers.
        
         | don-code wrote:
         | Former CloudHealth early engineer here. That's nothing new.
         | This started almost in tandem with the VMware acquisition - the
         | company culture had been all about small- to medium-size
         | customers, up through the point where due diligence started
         | with VMware. We were told in no uncertain words that VMware
         | would roll the red carpet out for big names, and that our
         | platform needed to be ready for it. I stuck it out for about a
         | year and a half, post-acquisition, where we tried to figure out
         | and build a "CloudHealth Enterprise Edition" of sorts.
         | 
         | I was surprised that VMware kept the "CloudHealth" branding as
         | long as they did, - it turned out that the brand actually had
         | some cache that VMware wanted to hang on to. But it was
         | formally dropped last year, in favor of "VMware Aria Cloud Cost
         | Control", or some equally overdescribed thing.
        
       | xyst wrote:
       | Vmware changing hands between corporate overlords like it's hot
       | potato.
       | 
       | VMware under EMC $625M acquisition lasted '04-'15
       | 
       | Dell acquires EMC for $58B in '15 which includes previously
       | acquired VMware.
       | 
       | Now Dell is trying to balance their books and sells entire stake
       | of VMWare in '21.
       | 
       | Broadcom now picks up the pieces of VMware with acquisition
       | completed this year ('23).
       | 
       | I wonder which corporate overlord will take it over in the next
       | 4-5 years.
       | 
       | Maybe Oracle or MS will be the next to bag hold.
        
         | tw04 wrote:
         | >I wonder which corporate overlord will take it over in the
         | next 4-5 years.
         | 
         | There will be no next. Broadcom will get blood from the stone,
         | rest assured. They will continue to raise maintenance and
         | licensing fees until they very last customer turns off their
         | last ESXi box. If you think IBM and mainframe is bad, you've
         | never lived with a technology that Broadcom has acquired.
        
           | MrDrMcCoy wrote:
           | 100%. I still have contacts from when I worked there, and
           | It's worse than feared. Everything is on fire and all the
           | best engineering/support talent has either left or is
           | leaving. Broadcom is not only raising prices, but is set to
           | deliver considerably worse products. It makes me sad, because
           | it was once an incredible place to work. Now I recommend that
           | people avoid them like the plague.
        
           | xyst wrote:
           | Never heard of Broadcom. Are they like the private equity of
           | tech? Kind of sounds like it.
        
             | SV_BubbleTime wrote:
             | You almost certainly have Broadcom in your pocket.
        
               | latchkey wrote:
               | These bits absolutely traveled through a Broadcom NIC.
        
               | Cyph0n wrote:
               | As someone who worked on SP routers at Cisco - yes to the
               | above.
        
             | pavon wrote:
             | Broadcom was essentially bought by a private equity firm
             | who took the name as the name of the umbrella corporation.
             | 
             | Before that Broadcom was (and still is) one of the larger
             | communication hardware companies, making chips for cell,
             | wifi, bluetooth, ethernet and ARM SoCs, along with telecom
             | and data center boxes that used these chips. You almost
             | certainly have their hardware in some device you own. But
             | they have always had difficulty competing with Qualcomm,
             | arguably in part due to anticompetitive behavior from the
             | later.
             | 
             | After the acquisition, they have been acquiring enterprise
             | software companies to diversify, including CA Technologies
             | (think Atlassian/Oracle of the mainframe world), Symantec,
             | and now VMWare.
        
             | megous wrote:
             | Broadcom is chip maker for Raspberry Pi, among many other
             | things, that's the one most people here probably will
             | recognize it for.
        
           | lokar wrote:
           | They have actually been pretty open that this is the plan.
           | And all the secondary products and small customers can wither
           | away even faster.
        
           | notacoward wrote:
           | IBM? Try EMC or Cisco. I ended up at the former by
           | acquisition; many friends ended up at the second likewise.
           | AFAICT they both have _much_ worse records of turning
           | acquisitions into abandonware than IBM does (not that IBM 's
           | is great). Oracle and Microsoft have already been mentioned,
           | but Intel deserves a place on that horrible list too. Tech
           | has been full of such fat and lazy predators for a _long_
           | time.
        
           | manicennui wrote:
           | Is there a single large tech company that doesn't fuck over
           | the customers of their acquisitions?
        
             | SSLy wrote:
             | HPE?
        
         | 3seashells wrote:
         | Says something about value vs evaluation?
        
         | api wrote:
         | There's a market out there for a very well designed turn key
         | cloud with things like managed Kubernetes and Postgres you can
         | deploy on bare metal or cheap VPSes. Too bad they aren't
         | looking at that. They have plenty of expertise and some of the
         | software pieces already developed.
         | 
         | I bet the problem is that they are too "enterprise" and
         | couldn't price it low enough. If it were too expensive it
         | wouldn't be competitive with big cloud managed offerings.
        
         | whalesalad wrote:
         | Like the village bicycle - everyone has taken it for a ride.
        
       | bluedino wrote:
       | What is the enterprise virtualization alternative?
       | 
       | Is everyone on Hyper V already? Does Citrix still exist?
       | 
       | Are SuSE or Red Hat offering an 'open source' alternative? Surely
       | people aren't using Proxmox in production?
        
         | navaati wrote:
         | RedHat and a couple other companies will sell you OpenStack
         | clusters, up to a certain size.
        
         | mvdwoord wrote:
         | Containers containers containers ;)
         | 
         | In all seriousness, I think it is a hot topic in Enterprise
         | Architecture (tm) meeting rooms ever since the merger was
         | announced (I know it was in ours). But even if you find an
         | alternative, you need to move, and a lot of companies have a
         | lot of hard to modernize workloads which are skillfully managed
         | by a lot of VMware trained personnel. No easy task.
        
         | tlamponi wrote:
         | > Surely people aren't using Proxmox in production?
         | 
         | Lot's do, e.g., the Austrian domain registry:
         | 
         | https://www.proxmox.com/en/about/stories/story/nic-at
         | 
         | And many others (albeit the big ones aren't listed there, a bit
         | harder to get real testimonials from them, and we do not pester
         | everybody):
         | 
         | https://www.proxmox.com/en/about/stories?f=7
        
         | jzb wrote:
         | Red Hat has/had Red Hat Virtualization but has transitioned
         | that to Red Hat OpenShift Virtualization as a successor. I
         | think RHV is set to phase out in 2026, and I'm not sure if
         | they're currently selling new subs or just servicing existing
         | customers with other folks pointed to RHOV.
         | 
         | The oVirt community's most recent release is from last
         | December, so I'm not sure whether that project is going to
         | thrive now that Red Hat has largely stepped away. (Last blog
         | update is also December 2022.)
        
           | _jal wrote:
           | RHV is dead, they're trying to move people over to (the much
           | more expensive) OpenShift. Support for it has gotten
           | predictably worse.
           | 
           | I don't expect Ovirt to survive, the vast majority of
           | development was RH.
           | 
           | "The market" seems to "deciding" that in-house virtualization
           | will be insanely expensive, and otherwise you need to rent
           | OCP.
        
         | sebazzz wrote:
         | Hyper-V server is killed by Microsoft, though you can of course
         | install Windows Server in Core mode and install the Hypervisor
         | component.
        
         | noinsight wrote:
         | Red Hat used to offer Red Hat Virtualization (RHV) - based on
         | oVirt - but they killed that at approximately the same time
         | this VMware deal was announced (supposedly coincidentally).
         | 
         | Now they bolted on virtual machines onto their OpenShift
         | container platform and are pushing that.
        
         | tonoto wrote:
         | Keep the eyes open on https://oxide.computer/ - they are
         | building hyperscalar racks with open source components. Using
         | bhyve as the hypervisor, API as a first class citizen,
         | Terraform/Opentofu, live-migration. Can't wish for much more
        
       | akmarinov wrote:
       | Did China give the go ahead?
        
         | advisedwang wrote:
         | Why would an American company need China's go-ahead to acquire
         | another American company's American subsidiary?
        
           | mvdwoord wrote:
           | Because they do business in China?
           | 
           | But yes, they have got it..
           | 
           | https://www.streetinsider.com/dr/news.php?id=22439649&gfv=1
        
             | xxpor wrote:
             | Wouldn't be shocked if this is part of a deal Xi and Biden
             | made.
        
               | Patrick_Devine wrote:
               | That is almost a certainty. That, or it was more likely
               | done one or two tiers down during the APEC conference.
        
               | Nthringas wrote:
               | I think this also has something to do with the whole
               | OpenAI debacle
               | 
               | but I can only guess....
        
           | xxpor wrote:
           | See also Intel and Tower Semi
        
         | justincormack wrote:
         | Yes according to the press release yesterday, didnt give any
         | details.
        
       | gigatexal wrote:
       | Everyone's VMWare licenses are gonna go up so much it'll be
       | hilarious. I wonder if any large shops will jump ship to
       | something else, but to what is the question.
        
         | tw04 wrote:
         | If Nutanix were smart, they'd decouple the hypervisor from
         | their garbage storage layer and make hay. But they won't... too
         | much pride to swallow that pill.
        
           | MrDrMcCoy wrote:
           | I'll never forgive Nutanix for murdering EdgeFS. I have not
           | used any of their products, and hopefully never will.
        
             | notacoward wrote:
             | EdgeFS was pretty much a direct ripoff of multiple open-
             | source projects, including one I worked on, so I'm not
             | going to shed a tear for them. IIRC they even cribbed some
             | of the material for manuals.
        
         | phpisthebest wrote:
         | RedHat / IBM had a huge opening to take some of this market
         | share... but then for some inexplicable nonsensical move
         | (common with IBM owned Redhat to be honest) they made the
         | choice to just exit the Onprem Hypervisor space to focus on
         | "Cloud".
         | 
         | I know a few organizations and vendors (like Veeam) were
         | looking to RHV to be a good replacement, the announcement to
         | discontinue the product seems to catch everyone by surprise.
         | 
         | I am still hoping Veeam will add support for a good 3rd option,
         | proxmox, XCP, direct KVM, something...
        
           | suprjami wrote:
           | Red Hat didn't exit, they moved from RHEV to OpenShift Virt.
           | Now it's kubernetes scheduling KVM VMs instead of ovirt-
           | engine scheduling KVM VMs.
        
             | linuxftw wrote:
             | I can't imagine anyone would pay for such a thing. It's a
             | product without a market. People want the VMWare
             | experience, Red Hat just refuses to build it.
        
               | tjscott wrote:
               | Red Hat built it in RHEV (or rather, bought it from
               | Qumranet and rebuilt the .net in JBoss), but struggled in
               | the market. They had an arguably better product than
               | VMware, and better pricing, but VMware customers were
               | hard to move, and Microsoft priced Hyper-V for Windows
               | guests at cheaper than free.
        
               | phpisthebest wrote:
               | >>>but VMware customers were hard to move
               | 
               | were being the key phrase. Timing is everything, they
               | Announced they were shutting down RHEV. AFTER broadcom
               | announced they were buying vmware, seems like a terrible
               | move in that light given that many vmware customers will
               | be looking for a replacement in the next couple of
               | renewal cycles.
        
               | linuxftw wrote:
               | Virtualization is a multi-billion dollar market. Even if
               | you're a distant #2, it should be financially viable. The
               | reality was, it was an awful product that nobody wanted.
               | It could be free and it's worse than rolling your own
               | solution directly on top of libvirt.
        
               | linuxftw wrote:
               | Sorry, nothing Red Hat built was ever better than VMWare
               | in the virtualization space. They never built a cohesive
               | product experience, they could not get out of their own
               | way.
        
             | phpisthebest wrote:
             | OpenShift Virt is not RHEV with K8s add, it is a completely
             | different thing, and running Traditional VM workloads on it
             | is troublesome.
             | 
             | I have no use for kubernetes, I will never use kubernetes,
             | I do not want kubernetes anywhere near me.
             | 
             | Most vmware customers I suspect have the same feelings
        
               | depereo wrote:
               | Set up a VM based workflow and it can run fairly well
               | with minimal intervention for years.
               | 
               | Set up a k8s deployment and you're fiddling with
               | deprecated APIs every couple months - if you don't pay
               | close attention the whole deployment spec falls apart
               | within two years.
               | 
               | The VM stuff works for the majority of companies - you
               | can even sprinkle containers in fairly easily.
               | 
               | It's still a massive if mature market that needs some
               | attention and care, it's a shame it's going to get
               | squeezed and abused by broadcom.
        
       | RedShift1 wrote:
       | The only reason I'm sticking with VMware ESXi is because of
       | Veeam, it's like the only solidly working piece of backup
       | software for VMs. Otherwise I wouldn't doubt to go with Proxmox.
        
         | jbverschoor wrote:
         | Proxmox seems to be working great, including backups
        
           | doubled112 wrote:
           | Built in backups that work are a big reason I ended up on
           | Proxmox at home.
        
         | BadBadJellyBean wrote:
         | Doesn't Proxmox have a builtin backup? You could also use
         | Hyper-V with Veeam.
        
         | xoa wrote:
         | Are you talking about using it AIO? It seems preferable to me
         | in general to have VMs live on external storage like a NAS.
         | Proxmox, KVM, Xen and I assume everything else all support
         | using iSCSI at least. Then your storage layer can focus on that
         | and handle all the backing up, data integrity etc itself. I
         | guess that does raise cost for the same performance vs a single
         | box so it'll depend on budget/needs, but it's getting pretty
         | affordable with a bit of shopping to do some serious storage
         | devices these days.
        
       | spullara wrote:
       | I guess this is really CA buying VMWare. This is a standard move
       | by CA. Buy an entrenched software company that isn't growing but
       | has a lot of customers and milk it.
        
         | mr_toad wrote:
         | > Buy an entrenched software company that isn't growing but has
         | a lot of customers and milk it.
         | 
         | This is textbook management 101, and not just for software
         | companies.
        
       | smcleod wrote:
       | They deserve each other. Two makers of terrible products.
        
       | caycep wrote:
       | I guess the practical question for me is: in case Fusion goes
       | abandonware, is there a viable desktop-focused hypervisor for the
       | Mac other than Fusion or Parallels that runs Windows relatively
       | well? I'm on Fusion, and I've always kind of viewed Parallels
       | with suspicion. There's Vimy and LTM but as far as I can tell,
       | they don't do Windows or GUI's all that well, since their focus
       | seems to be linux and Mac OS X VMS, unless newer versions have
       | improved...
        
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