[HN Gopher] EP-133
___________________________________________________________________
EP-133
Author : bpierre
Score : 171 points
Date : 2023-11-22 14:22 UTC (8 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (teenage.engineering)
(TXT) w3m dump (teenage.engineering)
| tapeloop wrote:
| need to get me one of these
| stigi wrote:
| you're username suggests so :)
| stigi wrote:
| I don't know how they do their math, but they advertise it for
| 299USD but when I open the store it's sold for 349EUR which today
| converts to 380USD... That's a 30% difference that hurts.
| 6581 wrote:
| The $299 don't include VAT.
| alanfranz wrote:
| Prices in the US generally don't include VAT, and maybe there's
| some exchange or import fee on top as well.
| ericpauley wrote:
| Likely this. 349 EUR is 17% VAT on 299.
| donkeyd wrote:
| And often there's also an invisible consumer rights 'tax' on
| top. Since online purchases and warranty are quite heavily
| regulated in Europe, sellers often add some margin to cover
| the extra costs this might bring.
| cammikebrown wrote:
| Gonna pick this up in Portland on Friday. $300 out the door
| marginalia_nu wrote:
| Speaking in general, prices tend to differ between regions away
| from just basic exchange rate math, since shipping costs means
| you don't get proper arbitrage pressure, which is what would
| pushes prices toward (lowest advertised price) x (exchange
| rate).
| stigi wrote:
| Thanks for the pointers everybody. They make sense. The
| frustration of seeing a 299 price tag and then being hit with a
| 349 price after one click on the store link is bad.. Didn't
| stop me from buying though :D
| achairapart wrote:
| Looks like the price for Europe is always 349 Euros VAT
| included, whatever your local VAT is (it goes from 16% to
| 27%).
|
| Rest of the world is always $299, no VAT applied.
|
| Shipping is always free.
| dubcanada wrote:
| Welcome to most of the world outside of US. I can drive 3 hours
| and pay 20-30% less for everything including exchange rate.
| capableweb wrote:
| The pricing is surprisingly low ($299) for being Teenage
| Engineering, wonder if they got tired of people complaining about
| their pricing? I guessed somewhere around $1000 before seeing the
| price.
| lifty wrote:
| It looks like it's made of plastic. Some of their other
| outrageously priced products are made of aluminium. Maybe that
| accounts for a chunk of the difference.
| dmicah wrote:
| Their pocket operator series were inexpensive, at $60-100 per
| model, but were very basic with essentially a bare PCB and most
| of the electronics protected by being placed under the screen.
| I believe that much of the cost of their expensive products is
| due to a lot of custom parts like CNC machined aluminum
| enclosures. This product seems designed to hit a price point
| between the pocket operators (~$100) and their plastic OP-Z
| (~$500).
| op00to wrote:
| I'll put my comment about price here. I saw "teenage
| engineering" and immediately thought "no way I'd afford that",
| but I clicked anyway. Sort of like how I'd look at a
| Lamborghini poster as a kid.
| maxfurman wrote:
| From the Verge article[0] on this device, it was designed from
| the ground up to a) only need parts that they could actually
| get during the pandemic, and b) sell for less than $300.
|
| I think this looks really cool and I want my in-laws to gift it
| to me for the holidays.
|
| [0] https://www.theverge.com/2023/11/22/23965528/teenage-
| enginee...
| ketzo wrote:
| Wow, that article is great -- some cool details on TE's
| internal processes.
| alderz wrote:
| The store page is struggling with 502's right now.
| dmd wrote:
| I finally gave up and just bought it from their Amazon store.
| https://www.amazon.com/teenage-engineering-sampler-sequencer...
| cats_ wrote:
| Just used this link to order. Thanks!
| driggs wrote:
| Curious that its got a nonstandard 46.875 kHz samplerate rather
| than 44.1 or 48.0 kHz.
|
| Not that it matters since its only output appears to be on the
| analog side of the DAC.
|
| This is a surprisingly well-featured sampler/sequencer for the
| price!
| porkloin wrote:
| Yeah, very weird. They have a sample prep tool that converts
| existing samples to the correct format, and obviously the
| internal sampling records to that rate.
| MrBuddyCasino wrote:
| "93.75kHz and 46.875kHz are the sampling frequencies Bruno
| Putzeys uses in all his digital products for Hypex, Grimm
| audio, KII, etc.", as outline here[0], for the following
| reason: 5.2 Clock The clock circuit
| is the same as that used in the CC1 except that the
| sampling rate is set to 93.75kHz instead of one of the
| more traditional audio rates. This is specifically done
| to improve the performance of the SRC chip. An uncommon
| clock frequency reduces the odds that mix products
| between the incoming clock and the internal clock fall
| inside the PLL loop bandwidth of the SRC.
|
| [0]
| https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/w...
| driggs wrote:
| OK, you've pasted from the #1 Google result after searching
| for "46.875 kHz samplerate".
|
| What does this have to do with the Teenage Engineering
| EP-133? It doesn't have USB audio or SPDIF, so no standard
| samplerate clock to conflict with.
| MrBuddyCasino wrote:
| It does have DACs, that presumably operate at the standard
| frequencies.
| driggs wrote:
| The ADC and DAC operate at 46.875 kHz, its samplerate.
| That's the entire point of my original comment about it
| being nonstandard.
| CamperBob2 wrote:
| The thing is, if the sample rate matters with respect to
| _anything_ other than the Nyquist limit, your filtering
| isn 't good enough.
|
| Relying on spacing between sample clock harmonics to keep
| beatnotes out of the passband isn't great engineering
| practice. I have to do that in a relatively-exotic RF
| application, admittedly, but I wouldn't advertise it as a
| feature. :) And I'd never choose that approach at audio
| frequencies. There's just no need.
| driggs wrote:
| The concern isn't about the trivial difference in Nyquist
| frequency, it's about aliasing and dithering when
| importing/exporting/synchronizing digitally.
|
| 1 sample from the EP-133 is 1.0629251700680271 samples at
| 44.1kHz, or 0.9765625 samples at 48kHz.
|
| (But, again, it doesn't export/synchronize audio
| digitally, so it probably only matters if directly
| importing samples.)
| tecleandor wrote:
| It might be because of the clock of the CPU or the dac being
| 24Mhz.
|
| 24MHz/512=46.875KHz
|
| Edit: or 12, 6, 3... 24MHz/512=46.875KHz
| 12MHz/256=46.875KHz 6MHz/128=46.875KHz
| 3MHz/64=46.875KHz...
| duped wrote:
| I've heard Lexicon used to use weird sample rates in its
| reverbs to make it harder to reverse engineer.
| lukeh wrote:
| It may have to do with part availability during the pandemic,
| perhaps?
| art-not wrote:
| i use my po-33 constantly. it's one of my favourite things I've
| ever owned. it's crazy how good they are at making little devices
| feel easy to use
| zoklet-enjoyer wrote:
| I love my PO-33. If I didn't have a SP-404 MK2 I'd be getting
| this. I still might be able to figure out how to justify it to
| myself. But really I don't need a 3rd sampler.
| wavemode wrote:
| Beautiful device. Ugh. Coming across ads like this is like a bad
| drug.
|
| I can hear the equipment in my closet that I already barely use,
| crying out to me "don't do it!"
| mr_sturd wrote:
| Ha! I'm teetering on the edge of buying a MicroFreak. There's
| no way I could justify the cost of anything from
| TeenageEngineering - though PS299 isn't as steep as I was
| expecting from these. Stay Strong!
| capableweb wrote:
| > on the edge of buying a MicroFreak
|
| Just do it, it's a lot of fun! You only live once, and if you
| save the box + bags and regret the purchase, you can sell it
| for minimal loss :)
| efields wrote:
| The microfreak is a marvel. Buy it now. Take the time to
| understand it. You won't regret it.
| nekopa wrote:
| I have to back up the others: just buy the microfreak, it is
| awesome. It was my first hardware purchase, and I am so glad
| I got it. They keep adding functionality via firmware
| updates, so recently they added sample playback to it, along
| with granular synthesis. I added a volca drum and a multi
| effect pedal to my hardware line up, so now I can head out to
| my local pub and jam out without needing a laptop with me,
| and the whole setup fits in an old messenger bag.
| mr_sturd wrote:
| Sounds like a neat set up! I've got the Volca Sample for
| the beats. Does audio go from Drum to Freak to headphones;
| and does the Freak control clock for the two?
| pizzaminded1 wrote:
| I bought one recently, and it sounds awesome, despite the
| fact that there are still some minor issues even after
| firmware update.
| mr_sturd wrote:
| What issues do you have with it?
|
| I do really like that they're able to improve on the
| product with firmware updates. One of the benefits of
| software-controlled oscillators.
|
| I'd love it if they'd open it up with an SDK like Korg's
| Logue series.
| kstrauser wrote:
| Insert the meme of me turning to look at this, while the dusty
| Novation Launchpad sitting on my desk is looking at me with
| jealous anger.
|
| I want this. I don't need it at all. But wow, I want it.
| yardie wrote:
| Wow, compared to some of their other products $299 for a TE
| sampler seems absolutely reasonable and much lower than I
| expected.
| virtualritz wrote:
| What a beauty!
| noman-land wrote:
| How do these guys manage to create such damn cool looking stuff
| every time? It's really impressive.
| bdowling wrote:
| The image of Muhammad Ali taunting Sonny Liston to get back up is
| one of the most famous images in sports. I can't imagine how much
| it cost to license.
| dmd wrote:
| You think they licensed it, rather than just copying it from
| google image search? (Speaking as someone whose spouse licenses
| images and sees people doing that ALL THE TIME.)
| capableweb wrote:
| Yes, absolutely they licensed it. Teenage Engineering is not
| a random mom-and-pop shop, and that image is not a photograph
| that most people wouldn't recognize.
| dmd wrote:
| You say that, but you'd say the same about, e.g. The New
| York Times, and my wife's org has to contact them multiple
| times a year for using images without permission. They
| always pay up, but they keep doing it! Khan Academy is
| another big violator.
| porkloin wrote:
| There's a credit and statement in the footer of the page:
|
| > Muhammad Ali(tm); Rights of Publicity and Persona
| Rights: Muhammad Ali Enterprises LLC
|
| > Photos by Neil Leifer (c) ABG-SI LLC
| ErneX wrote:
| They credit the Muhammad Ali Enterprises LLC in the bottom of
| the page so yeah they got the rights, I mean they are using
| boxing gloves also on the product pictures.
|
| Edit: even their limited edition packaging has these
| pictures.
| Night_Thastus wrote:
| I have absolutely no use for this, but damn I love the
| aesthetics. That thing is just gorgeous.
| joakinen wrote:
| Totally on the same page! The form factor is spot on, and the
| vibe is just downright cool. But samplers aren't my cup of tea,
| so I'll wait to see what other gadgets they roll out in this
| series.
| danwee wrote:
| I'm a total newcomer about this, but I would like to learn and
| start making "music". They advertise:
|
| > MAKE USE OF THE CURATED SELECTION OF DRUMS, BASS AND KEYS THAT
| COME PRE-LOADED ON YOUR K.O.II.
|
| Question: would I be stuck with their pre-loaded curated
| selection or is there any way I can "upload" any extra
| dum/bass/keys and use them?
| lotsofpizza wrote:
| There is software included that allows you to add your own
| samples(audio files).
| capableweb wrote:
| Yes, you'd be able to use whatever samples you want; transfer
| from the computer ("drag and drop samples using the sample
| tool") or record them yourself via the input.
| ErneX wrote:
| It has 64MB for samples, I think you can record via the line in
| + microphone or with a software companion.
| tecleandor wrote:
| From what I see in their docs [0], you can either record
| samples directly from their hardware, or use a web tool [1]
| using Web MIDI (!) to update them. Guessing from the Web MIDI
| use, probably should be easy to create open tools or even load
| that page offline to update its samples. [0]:
| https://teenage.engineering/guides/ep-133/functions#10.1-sample
| [1]: https://teenage.engineering/apps/ep-sample-tool
| MDGeist wrote:
| Yesterday an expensive desk toy, today a reasonably priced
| sampler. Not sure if TE is YOLOing or it is all part of a genius
| marketing plan.
| tecleandor wrote:
| Yep! If you showed me that landing page hiding the price, and
| knowing TE, I would have said that it was going to be at least
| double or triple the price.
| deebosong wrote:
| Can't help but feel it's their gameplan. And I try to remain
| non-reactive, but I thought it was smart.
|
| That toy car looked ridiculous, but not completely out of line
| with their shenanigans in the past. So it seemed somewhat "in
| character."
|
| And then to immediately follow-up with a way more useful,
| beautiful, functional, cool and interesting product that's
| "only" $50 more expensive - with all the anchoring price point
| tactics and such dialed-in - and is like, 3x less than their
| OP-1 was (maybe even more), and "only" 2-3x more expensive than
| their higher-end pocket operators that essentially have similar
| functions... Then I do think they know exactly what they're
| doing.
|
| All that being said, it absolutelye worked on someone like me
| and I bought one lol. I was so, so ready to be offended and be
| presented with more egregiously expensive-but-useless doodads.
| But $300 for a slick sampler... That's really not bad at all.
| Considering the Roland 404 is $200 more, and some other audio
| gadgets I bought with less functions are in the $200 range.
| schwartzworld wrote:
| This thing is an upgrade over the po33, but it's not anywhere
| close to the same league as the 404. This is less of a
| criticism of TE and more of a credit to the incredible depth
| of features they've packed into the 404mkii.
| efields wrote:
| As someone with a Chompi on the way, thank you for giving
| me some perspective to keep me from smashing that buy
| button.
| deebosong wrote:
| Dang that's good to know. No worries if not, but would you
| mind giving a broad breakdown between the two?
| rumori wrote:
| SP404mkii pros: DJ mode, SD card slot up to at least 64
| Gb, 16Gb(!) internal memory for 16 projects 160 samples
| each, works as an audio interface over USB-C, full size
| 1/4" jack input and outputs, 33 effects with 3-6
| parameters, 5 configurable effects simultaneously,
| resampling with effects, skipback recording, rubber pads,
| looping samples, real-time time stretching, OLED display,
| on screen wave editing and chopping.
|
| EP-133: 64 Mb internal memory, no SD card slot, 6.3mm
| jacks, predefined effects (considering the POs these are
| usually hardcoded with only couple of adjustable
| parameters), didn't see an unquantizied mode in the
| manual, but it has note offsets, 9 effects in total,
| adorable design!
|
| My guess is that EP-133 is very immediate and fun to use
| but you hit a wall at some point due to lack of storage /
| limited effects, whereas the 404 will take you from
| making beats to playing full multi-hour live set and
| beyond.
|
| Both great in their own right.
| deebosong wrote:
| Wow appreciate it! This really helps.
|
| The SP404mkii sounds like a powerhouse and amazing value
| in comparison to the EP-133 now lol.
|
| But I'm def not anywhere near being able to take
| advantage of either to their full capacity.
|
| Thank you again.
| art-not wrote:
| You can unquantize actually! at the very least you can
| with midi input.
|
| I use my po 33 a lot. It's something between a toy and a
| full fledged device. I've used it 'live' when hosting a
| pen and paper event i wanted custom music for. Usually
| though it's something I enjoy using when I want to do
| something musically without being too 'committed'.
|
| I think there's a lot of value from an item being easy to
| use and evoking the concept of play. It makes it easy to
| keep up 'good habits' like music making on days where I
| dont want to or cant do more.
| rumori wrote:
| This, the 404mkii is a really strong machine on all fronts,
| if they manage to give us a proper looper in this year's
| software update I will be over the moon. I like TE but
| their gear always ends up being closer to a toy than
| anything. It's really fun but it mostly ends there.
| Elektron and Roland devices end up being much more
| versatile and professional in the long run.
| merelysounds wrote:
| Absolutely both.
|
| They have been successfully releasing extremely well designed
| and extremely frustrating devices for a while now.
|
| And if anything, they're getting more and more popular, working
| with ikea or panic and both iterating on old ideas and
| exploring new ones.
| yitchelle wrote:
| As I load up the website, it dithers for a moment before the full
| image comes up. I love this effect...Have I gone full circle from
| my dialup days? I think I have...
| ketzo wrote:
| It's so nice, actually. Great little effect that fits well with
| the rest of the page's aesthetic.
| agloe_dreams wrote:
| Not only is it a nice effect.... but the Muhammad Ali landing
| page is downright insane. That hero image choice is pure gold.
| It is insanely brave to not put the product in the hero too.
| Utter envy.
|
| Edit: OH MY GOD, THE PACKAGING.
| mr_sturd wrote:
| > Whatever you now find weird, ugly, uncomfortable and nasty
| about a new medium will surely become its signature. CD
| distortion, the jitteriness of digital video, the crap sound of
| 8-bit - all of these will be cherished and emulated as soon as
| they can be avoided.
|
| -- Brian Eno
| frankfrank13 wrote:
| Wow, for basically the price of a Circuit?? Insane
| wintorez wrote:
| I love their design language.
| cfr2023 wrote:
| Teenage Engineering Syndrome, oppressive proprietary products
| with undeniably appealing designs. On the surface, this is their
| bet effort yet. Props for that, I suppose.
| capableweb wrote:
| > Teenage Engineering Syndrome, oppressive proprietary products
| with undeniably appealing designs
|
| Kind of comes with the sector/industry, not a lot high-quality,
| standalone gear that wouldn't be considered "oppressive
| proprietary products".
| Dudester230602 wrote:
| Nothing to write home about in 2024:
|
| * stereo / mono sampling at 46.875 kHz / 16-bit
|
| * 24-bit ADC / DAC
| amelius wrote:
| I don't see why a laptop can't do this. This will just turn into
| extra e-waste.
| dwhit wrote:
| > I have a few qualms with this app: > 1. For a Linux user, you
| can already build such a system yourself quite trivially by
| getting an FTP account, mounting it locally with curlftpfs, and
| then using SVN or CVS on the mounted filesystem. From Windows
| or Mac, this FTP account could be accessed through built-in
| software. > 2. It doesn't actually replace a USB drive. Most
| people I know e-mail files to themselves or host them somewhere
| online to be able to perform presentations, but they still
| carry a USB drive in case there are connectivity problems. This
| does not solve the connectivity issue. > 3. It does not seem
| very "viral" or income-generating. I know this is premature at
| this point, but without charging users for the service, is it
| reasonable to expect to make money off of this?
| dagmx wrote:
| A laptop can do a great many things. That doesn't mean it's the
| best form factor for doing it.
|
| Music making devices are very much about the ergonomics of
| devices and the reduction of friction in workflow. This is also
| significantly more portable than a laptop, with much lower
| latency than you would likely get.
|
| When people compare devices, they should really consider not
| looking at just paper /capabilities and what it means to a
| user.
| deebosong wrote:
| OK I'm commenting twice and have no affiliations to TE or The
| Kount.
|
| But apparently, The Kount made a buncha sounds for this thing.
|
| https://twitter.com/THEK0UNT/status/1727365475976216610
|
| I'm not that good at making beats, don't have deep knowledge on
| tech specs, or even have good creative workflow (I'm a very
| enthusiastic dabbler). But The Kount's free sample packs are so
| good (IMHO), and the beats he makes are certified bangers (he
| uploads 1 min vids of them on Twitter/ IG/ YouTube). Just wanted
| to highlight this as well and makes me happy to know.
| shoemakersteve wrote:
| Scrolling down, I see that they apparently also sell hoodies for
| $130USD (not including tax and shipping). Literal insanity
| iamben wrote:
| Curious as to why that's insane? It's on par with / a little
| less than most streetwear brands. Of course you can buy a
| hoodie for $25, but you can also buy one for thousands. You're
| only going to pay what something is worth to you; it's very
| subjective.
| simonebrunozzi wrote:
| The device looks gorgeous.
|
| I did a little bit of music creation with an Amiga 500 and
| Soundtracker, ~30-32 years ago.
|
| What would be an equivalent software-only thing to warm up to
| this again, before I decide I really need to purchase this thing?
| themoonisachees wrote:
| I'm not really in that scene, but I know for a fact trackers
| are going well in their niche. One that I know of is OpenMpt
| (I'm not good enough to use it properly so I can't speak to how
| good it is), but there are more.
|
| In general, teenage engineering devices look fantastic and are
| really capable in the right hands, but they look deceptively
| simple while they are in fact really complex to make good music
| with. I know of a few people who burnt $1k on an OP-1 because
| they thought they could make music easily with it.
| least wrote:
| For a software sampler, I would highly recommend Koala Sampler
| [1], which has a very easy to use workflow and is modestly
| priced ($5 for the base version, with sub $5 upgrades). If you
| don't like it, you probably won't like the EP-133.
|
| There's also hardware trackers like the Tracker and Tracker
| Mini from Polyend [2] and the Dirtywave M8 [3] that might
| interest you as well. Their workflow is closer to what you used
| in the past.
|
| [1] https://www.koalasampler.com/
|
| [2] https://polyend.com/tracker-mini/
|
| [3] https://dirtywave.com/products/m8-tracker
| Sirizarry wrote:
| Really depends on the kind of music you wanna make. Since this
| is a sampler though, you can probably fire up something like
| reaper (free) or fl studio (less free) and start chopping up
| your favorite songs to make something new. Teenage engineering
| makes some really unique hardware though. I own their OP-1 and
| it's a hell of a learning curve to get efficient with it but
| it's so cool.
| tshaddox wrote:
| I'd like to see a website UI that looks like that big video.
| ge96 wrote:
| not a music producer but the aesthetic of the TP-7 is so cool.
| patapong wrote:
| A long presentation and demo of the EP-133 is available here:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjW6_BuXN_4
| Cockbrand wrote:
| Stupid noob question: would I be able to control this from a DAW
| like Reaper?
| 9999 wrote:
| Absolutely gorgeous and like everything else I've owned from them
| it will probably break if I so much as look at it crosseyed.
| Still this one is actually cheap enough that I might buy it
| anyway.
| lq0000 wrote:
| What is a "super segment hybrid display"? Looks cool, has VFD
| vibes, but I assume it's just an OLED with an overlay or
| something based off in the Verge article "Most of the KO II's
| parts are just off-the-shelf components, including the display"
| jhbruhn wrote:
| That's my guess as well. Either monochromatic OLED (cheap!) and
| colored icons (not so cheap?) or the other way around. LCD with
| front panel might also be fine as long as it's bright enough,
| and the front panel is dim enough.
| codeulike wrote:
| Whereas an Analogue Synth actually does something analogue that
| (in principle) a laptop could not emulate, a standalone sampler
| like this is just a digital device in a box with nice buttons,
| right? So it does the sortof thing you could do on an ipad by
| paying $5 for a sampler/sequencer app. But it does it in a nice
| looking physical box with some cool buttons.
|
| I mean, thats fine, but I just want to be clear about that.
| nmeofthestate wrote:
| Yep - in the same way that you can prepare a meal with a Swiss
| Army knife instead of using kitchen knives, you can play music
| on a qwerty keyboard instead of a piano keyboard. You can
| achieve the same end result, but one tool is more tailored to
| doing the job.
| codeulike wrote:
| Right, and its nice to have shiny new tools to play with. But
| ipads and laptops are actually pretty good for music
| production too. Not really like preparing a meal with a Swiss
| Army Knife.
| JoeyJoJoJr wrote:
| Why would you use a Mac versus PC. Why would you use FL
| Studio versus Logic, or grand piano versus a synthesiser?
|
| It comes down to the interface and the unique affordances
| it brings. A piece of musical hardware such a this is a
| musical instrument.
| jnovek wrote:
| For many -- myself included -- the buttons and encoders make it
| much easier to play as a musical instrument. When I buy a
| digital instrument I'm not just buying the sound engine, I'm
| also buying a specialized controller for playing that sound
| engine.
| masto wrote:
| I can't wait for Bad Gear to do this one.
| S_A_P wrote:
| Love that guy.
| kazinator wrote:
| That looks too flimsy for pro audio; a month of gigging and it's
| toast.
|
| No XLR or 1/4" TRS jacks.
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(page generated 2023-11-22 23:02 UTC)