[HN Gopher] 11.8M CHF for clinical trials of novel arthritis repair
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11.8M CHF for clinical trials of novel arthritis repair
Author : taubek
Score : 94 points
Date : 2023-11-21 09:08 UTC (13 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.unibas.ch)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.unibas.ch)
| 4ggr0 wrote:
| 11.8M CHF [?] 13.3M USD
| unixhero wrote:
| The dollar is strong like a silverback gorilla these days
| sschueller wrote:
| Isn't a silverback gorilla actually strong? The dollar is
| quite week in comparison against the CHF than what it used to
| be. In 1985 1 CHF got you just 38 cents.
| 4ggr0 wrote:
| EDIT: Mixed it up, _assumed_ that the USD is stronger than
| CHF
|
| And I'd rather have a slightly weaker currency than not
| having a usable healthcare or social system :)
| config_yml wrote:
| The dollar is weak, not the Swiss Franc
| 4ggr0 wrote:
| I am stupid. Thanks. I am so used to the dollar being
| stronger that my brain didn't even compute that it's the
| other way around.
|
| Which means we have the stronger currency AND healthcare,
| harharhar.
| vlabakje90 wrote:
| It might be, but this exchange rate is no evidence for that
| statement. The CHF/USD exchange rate is literally at one of
| it's highest points since 1985.
| sschueller wrote:
| Switzerland produces a lot of surgical implants so something like
| this would impact that industry but like everything you need to
| move forward and find better ways to heal people even if it
| affects your bottom line.
| abirch wrote:
| Europe and Switzerland would benefit since those countries pay
| for healthcare. The saving would outweigh the tax revenue they
| would have gathered.
| qgin wrote:
| Switzerland is very close to the US model, where everyone is
| required to purchase private insurance. But the plans are
| cheaper with better coverage.
| unglaublich wrote:
| Mandatory health insurance is as far from the US model as
| it gets, no?
|
| Most EU countries have a healthcare model like Switzerland
| where you have mandatory private insurance.
|
| It's only more expensive in CH than in many EU countries
| because the state doesn't directly subsidize the healthcare
| insurers.
|
| Think ~5k$ premiums + ~3k$ deductibles.
| FirmwareBurner wrote:
| _> Most EU countries have a healthcare model like
| Switzerland where you have mandatory private insurance._
|
| No they don't. Most EU healthcare systems are socialized
| and publicly run by the state, with the option of paying
| private for better/faster services on non-life-
| threatening issues where the public system is
| overcrowded, or for things not covered by the state
| insurance.
|
| The likes of Switzerland and a few others like the
| Netherlands where health insurance is fully private like
| in the US, are the exception. But AFAIK in CH/NL the
| state will still subsidize your healthcare anyway if
| you're below the poverty line and too broke to afford the
| private plans.
| misja111 wrote:
| Yes, but the premium can be deducted from taxes, also
| cantons offer health insurance subsidy for families with
| low income.
| densh wrote:
| Premium deduction gives you a 20-30% discount depending
| on your residence canton and income. It's still not free
| by any means.
| swe_dima wrote:
| I had 3rd-degree arthritis in my knee that I developed after 4
| surgeries due to a football(soccer) injury.
|
| 4 years ago I could only walk with crouches due to pain.
|
| Last month I competed in 2 half-marathons.
|
| I was able to get much much better by doing a lot of PRP
| (platelet-rich plasma) injections over past years and a single
| SVF (stromal vascular fraction) injection 1.5 years ago.
|
| My MRI shows that cartilage has grown back significantly (not
| fully, but I no longer have a gaping hole in it).
| lsllc wrote:
| Can you elaborate? I assume that for the PRP they take your
| blood and centrifuge out the PFP and inject it back into the
| knee joint?
|
| Glad you were able to rehab so well!
| swe_dima wrote:
| Yes, in PRP they take your blood, extract platelet-rich
| plasma from it and inject it into your joint.
|
| With SVF they make you a small liposuction (around 80 ml if I
| am not mistaken, local anesthesia), then also extract cells
| from it that are similar in function to stem cells and inject
| them into your knee.
|
| PRP is very noninvasive. SVF is more invasive, mostly the
| liposuction part, but I'd say it's still walk-in the part if
| you compare it with something like arthroscopic surgery.
| mmmwww wrote:
| How did the half marathons go? Any pain?
| swe_dima wrote:
| Managed to finish in the top 10% after 6 months of
| preparation.
|
| There was no pain during them, but once you cool down you
| feel all the beating you received.
|
| I mean, I am still not 100% healthy, I get some swelling
| after exercise, and I don't think I can compete with
| anyone doing it seriously, I just can't get the same
| volume of exercise a healthy person can. Like, I can only
| run 10-16km every 2 days, because I need to give my knee
| time to recover, while a healthy person can run it every
| day.
|
| But hell, just some time ago I was looking with jealousy
| at people running at all.
| mmmwww wrote:
| That's great. No arthritis here but i had surgery in the
| knee for an ACL/miniscus recently so I feel your pain! I
| completed my first half a month ago.
| yolo3000 wrote:
| I read in a previous post of yours that you did 50!! PRP
| injections. I was also advised to get PRP injections by a doc,
| he said a lot of top athletes suffer from cartilage damage, and
| they do these injections to prolong their careers. But then I
| was held back because it seemed they had a business from doing
| these PRP shots, I didn't trust them. They were also pretty
| expensive, around 500 euros/shot, and you needed to do several.
| But 50? that seems a lot, and a lot of times you had your blood
| drawn. In the Netherlands where I live, the doc didn't even
| mention PRPs, he jumped straight to a microfracture surgery. It
| felt like the guy was looking for someone to practice surgery
| on, hate these doctors.
| swe_dima wrote:
| Of those 50 injections around 15 were PRP and the rest were
| hyaluronic acid injections.
|
| I was doing them back in Russia and a PRP injection there
| would cost around $80.
|
| I keep doing hyaluronic acid injections every 3 months just
| to be safe, whatever I am doing it seems to be working, so I
| continue doing them. Right now I live in Georgia they cost
| around $105 here ($90 for the syringe, $15 for the doctor).
|
| SVF seemed to have a much stronger effect than PRP, it's hard
| to quantify, but I would say a single SVF felt close to all
| the PRPs I did before.
| swe_dima wrote:
| I was recently talking to a colleague of mine from Canada who
| needs to get shoulder surgery but there's no end in sight for
| the waiting.
|
| I think it's worth it considering getting a paid surgery in a
| "2nd world" country, like Kazakhstan, Turkey, Russia (pre-
| war, feels uneasy going there now) and etc. Things there cost
| 10 times less and most surgeries, where hospitals don't need
| very advanced equipment, are probably done on the same level
| as "1st world" countries.
| orangepurple wrote:
| When I was 18 I went for a long run with a heavy backpack and
| developed extreme tendonitis on the sides of my knees. I
| could barely walk without excruciating pain. After three
| weeks of this suffering I got one round of PRP injections and
| was able to walk a week later. I made a full recovery within
| the month. Insane. There was no way it would have healed so
| fast without the injections based on the pain trajectory from
| the prior weeks.
| toomuchtodo wrote:
| I have a friend I am advocating for who has degenerative
| arthritis in their ankles in their early 30s and are on their
| way to being wheelchair bound. Are there any resources you
| could recommend that would enable me to improve their outcome?
| Your comment is very helpful already, I appreciate it.
| swe_dima wrote:
| Just like in programming, the boring but true answer is "it
| depends", because every situation is different.
|
| A generic advice that I learned is that muscle-strengthening
| exercises help A LOT. Basically muscles form a protective
| corset around your knee and reduce the stress on your joints
| by a lot.
|
| Also, arthritis often happens due to low blood flow, so as
| painful as it may be, you have to keep moving, try not to sit
| too much.
|
| Another generic piece of advice is controlling your weight,
| this is just simple math, the less you weigh, the less stress
| your knee receives.
|
| What also worked for me was hyaluronic acid injections, when
| I was in a lot of pain and it was hard to work on my muscles,
| hyaluronic acid helped to reduce this pain by being a good
| lubricant. Probably I am going overboard with it now, but I
| keep having injections every 3 months just to be safe. It can
| be of different concentration and volume. If you inject
| something with a smaller % you have to do it multiple times
| in a row with 5-7 days between, if you inject something with
| a higher % then a single injection is okay.
|
| The PRP / SVF part you already read about. I am also a 31 yo,
| so while I am young my body is better at regeneration, I
| don't think elderly people get the same effect from these. I
| did 3 sessions x 5 PRP injections with 6 months between
| sessions. The effect is by no means immediate.
|
| It's certainly a hard road, but better than a wheelchair.
| saiya-jin wrote:
| Yes building supporting/stabilizing muscles can do wonders,
| but as with everything key is to start way before you
| actually have problems and pain - that's a phase when body
| is already struggling and failing to fix things long term
| and degradation happens. Look at your direct ancestors for
| clues.
|
| Adequate stress on joints from right exercises executed in
| good form are part of this. Beginners almost never got this
| right and overdo things, investing into professional help
| in the beginning is very good idea.
|
| Same with weight - when people react to degrading health
| due to say being obese, one is beyond point of return in
| many things comprising overall quality of life and health.
| Like getting your act together after first heart attack,
| way too late.
|
| If in pain, generally don't exercise through it, body is
| saying something ain't right so rather address it. Try
| things like swimming which put very little stress on the
| knees yet can work whole body efficiently. You really want
| to have all parts of body developed well, otherwise you
| will be always chasing some degradation like whack-a-mole
| without ever winning.
| sebgr wrote:
| In case this is useful - I had end stage arthritis in one of
| my ankles and ended up getting a bipolar ankle allograft in
| San Diego at Scripps. I barely think about it nowadays except
| that sometimes after a long hike or strenuous workout it will
| feel a bit stuff. Considering I could barely walk before it
| was a night and day difference.
|
| You essentially get a completely new joint surface from a
| donor and have to be in crutches for 3 months but it was 100%
| worth it for me. I refused to do fusion and avoided any
| doctor that said nothing could be done.
|
| https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31045670/
|
| Another solution for end stage ankle arthritis is distraction
| surgery but I didn't look into it much but it could be useful
| too: https://www.hss.edu/conditions_ankle-distraction-
| arthroplast...
| treprinum wrote:
| How about BPC-157? Did you think about that one?
| swe_dima wrote:
| I haven't, I don't think it was even an option for me, it's
| easier for clinics to get a legal clearance if you inject
| your own cells.
| vGPU wrote:
| I've tried it and TB-500 personally for persistent
| tendinitis, can't say either helped.
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