[HN Gopher] Taking my e-bike as an undercover food delivery rider
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       Taking my e-bike as an undercover food delivery rider
        
       Author : GoRudy
       Score  : 29 points
       Date   : 2023-11-20 20:10 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (electrek.co)
 (TXT) w3m dump (electrek.co)
        
       | oh_sigh wrote:
       | If tips don't put you above minimum wage, does Doordash need to
       | top you up? Or is that part of the appeal of being a contractor -
       | that you can get paid below minimum wage legally?
        
         | thecyborganizer wrote:
         | Paying a fee per job done, rather than a wage per hour of
         | labor, is literally the entire point of the gig economy.
         | Uber/DoorDash/etc. claim this is a perk, since you can set your
         | own hours.
         | 
         | However, food delivery gig workers in New York City and a few
         | other places have recently successfully won the right to earn a
         | fixed minimum wage: https://www.thecity.nyc/2023/09/28/minimum-
         | hourly-pay-court-...
        
         | sleepybrett wrote:
         | the second one.
         | 
         | There was a big fight in washington/seattle
         | https://www.king5.com/article/news/local/seattle/seattle-cit...
         | 
         | Lot's of misinfo/disinfo being disseminated from
         | doordash/instacart etc about how unfair it is and how it will
         | kill it's business. If your business can't survive your workers
         | being paid minimum wage, maybe you shouldn't be in business.
        
           | laweijfmvo wrote:
           | the entire US economy it seems is contingent on not doing
           | anything properly, including paying reasonable wages
        
       | brnt wrote:
       | If you like this, Jeroen van Bergeijk has been writing about his
       | doing such jobs undercover for a decade. I don't know that he was
       | translated, but a documentary I think was.
        
       | Someone1234 wrote:
       | Interesting video, but the amount of money he made from food
       | delivery is horrifyingly low. Maybe under minimum age. Least of
       | all if you stay until near the end when he says that almost all
       | of that was from tips.
       | 
       | People will hand-wave this away as "this isn't meant to be a full
       | time job, just beer money on the side" but for a lot of adults it
       | is in fact their primary source of income.
        
         | jszymborski wrote:
         | The article points out that it is indeed about $2 lower than
         | the min wage for the state he was in (FL)
        
           | Animats wrote:
           | Not only that, he's counting revenue as income. He has
           | operating costs. Less than a car, but real.
        
         | alephxyz wrote:
         | a lot of people with student visas in Canada choose to do it
         | since they're limited to 20hr/week of work. You make a bit more
         | money doing ~30 hours of Uber eats with 20 hours spent actually
         | delivering food than working 20 hours at minimum wage.
        
           | nicoburns wrote:
           | Surely if you're working for 30 hours then the comparison
           | ought to be with 30 hours at minimum wage, no?
        
             | aidenn0 wrote:
             | Not if it's illegal for you to work 30 hours at minimum
             | wage.
        
             | ska wrote:
             | I think their point was that they have an artificial limit
             | for the actual hours booked (20h), but a lot of delivery
             | time is not-working (e.g. waiting on an order) but that
             | doesn't count against the 20h.
             | 
             | So if they are willing, they can spend 30h
             | waiting+delivering with a lower hourly rate, but higher
             | total $ than just working 20h at min wage.
        
       | edward wrote:
       | I'd like a way to tell the delivery app that I'd prefer delivery
       | by bike as opposed to car. Maybe I'm willing to pay a premium for
       | bike delivery.
        
       | urbandw311er wrote:
       | The argument around tipping grates for me.
       | 
       | The author is saying that the companies don't pay him enough so I
       | should tip to compensate.
       | 
       | This will actually make things worse, as I will then be
       | artificially propping up a broken market.
       | 
       | A better solution would be for _nobody_ to tip. At this point,
       | all the drivers would quit because the pay is too low, so the
       | companies would be forced to raise it to a level where they can
       | attract drivers.
        
         | jackvalentine wrote:
         | Yeah - I don't use food delivery apps because of the
         | wage/tipping issue. My wife HATES that I go and collect food
         | myself but I just feel too anxious navigating the exploitation
         | in the sector.
        
           | Amezarak wrote:
           | Why on earth would this bother her??? It also saves tons of
           | money. I downloaded a delivery app, saw how much more it
           | would cost, and have never used one again.
        
       | laweijfmvo wrote:
       | every time my food delivery driver is on a moped, I get my food
       | 3x faster than by car, and often half of the estimated delivery
       | time. haven't seen an e-bike driver yet.
        
       | Scoundreller wrote:
       | > So please tip your delivery rider. I always did before, but now
       | I tip even better.
       | 
       | Better yet, tip partly/fully in cash so the app doesn't know the
       | true value of their earnings (especially with inevitable lawsuits
       | and settlements that may deduct tips when doing minimum wage
       | calculations).
       | 
       | Personally, I don't like tipping in advance of receiving a
       | service.
       | 
       | I'm in Canada, so it's a good way to get rid of my $1 and $2
       | coins (and some minority of quarters).
        
         | chankstein38 wrote:
         | Your experience may vary but for me this sounds like a great
         | way to never have anything actually get delivered. I have to
         | tip $10+ for every order just to get my order picked up and
         | brought to my house. If I don't declare that's the tip amount
         | in the doordaash app, no driver picks it up. Once I had a $5
         | smoothie order and tried to only tip $5 so I wasn't paying $15
         | for a smoothie and the order ended up sitting at the restaurant
         | and got cancelled.
         | 
         | My brother was a DoorDash driver and a lot of his friends were
         | and they all said that they regularly skipped orders with $0
         | tips because it meant they made nothing on them. DoorDash, at
         | one point, even tried to implement something to address this by
         | changing the way the income for the order was displayed but
         | it's still quite prevalent.
         | 
         | So, yeah, tipping cash is a great idea except these companies
         | have built their whole model in a way that makes that look like
         | you're going to tip $0. So unless someone doesn't care and
         | picks it up, in my area at least, it sounds like you're just
         | not going to get stuff delivered.
        
           | mikestew wrote:
           | _My brother was a DoorDash driver and a lot of his friends
           | were and they all said that they regularly skipped orders
           | with $0 tips because it meant they made nothing on them._
           | 
           | This sounds like the whole idea is just broken. No one is
           | making any money, including DoorDash (I at least _assume_
           | they 're not profitable), and the only money to be made in
           | any of this is the idea of a "tip" which effectively holds
           | your order hostage unless you pay up some unspecified amount.
           | All so you can have a lukewarm burger delivered to your door.
           | Oh, and if you get ghosted, you could have already eaten your
           | _hot_ food by the time you get it sorted, had you just gone
           | and picked it up yourself.
           | 
           | I dunno, does this sound like something a rational person
           | would participate in? ("...he asked rhetorically.")
        
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       (page generated 2023-11-20 23:01 UTC)