[HN Gopher] 75% of Software Engineers Faced Retaliation Last Tim...
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       75% of Software Engineers Faced Retaliation Last Time They Reported
       Wrongdoing
        
       Author : IcyApril
       Score  : 35 points
       Date   : 2023-11-20 15:02 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.engprax.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.engprax.com)
        
       | parkerhiggins wrote:
       | I've found that there isn't a lot of discussion or research
       | around this subject. Shoutout to engprax, a compliance company,
       | for clearly approaching the issue.
       | 
       | Is it actually an issue though? Software engineers by design (?)
       | are not capital "P" professionals. There's no certification or
       | board underwriting our work. Software engineering/developers have
       | had the latitude to "move fast" and represent the only
       | "professional" trade that has the ability to "try again" (with a
       | deployment) versus a structural engineer for example.
       | 
       | > Dr Junade Ali CEng FIET, the Principal Investigator of the
       | study, said: "Recent developments demonstrate the fundamental
       | importance of software engineers being free to raise the alarm
       | when they become aware of potential wrongdoing; unfortunately our
       | research has highlighted that software engineers are not
       | sufficiently protected when they need to do so. From software
       | engineers facing mass retaliation for speaking up and banned
       | gagging clauses still being used, to 'industry-standard' software
       | development metrics not considering the public's risk appetite;
       | this investigation has highlighted systematic and profound issues
       | with society-wide impact, given how integral computers are to all
       | our lives.
       | 
       | With the ubiquitous nature of software in modern society are we
       | at the point were we need certification? The development and
       | certification of "industry-standards"? This theme, balancing
       | innovation with responsibility, is throughout the the Biden
       | Administration's Executive Order on the Safe, Secure, Trustworthy
       | Development and Use of Artificial Intelligence (Order).
       | 
       | Who is really responsible though? The developers who wrote the
       | code? Or the executive who ordered the change?
       | 
       | There's are plenty of examples of this in recent history. Where
       | engineers/developers released code they knew was
       | harmful/fraudulent but did so anyway under fear of retaliation.
       | 
       | > FTX (Nishad Singh) https://www.reuters.com/technology/how-
       | secret-software-chang...
       | 
       | > Pollen
       | https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/pollen/#:~:text=Later%2C%....
       | 
       | I wonder where this is going to go.
        
         | tekla wrote:
         | > Who is really responsible though? The developers who wrote
         | the code?
         | 
         | Yes. The person who wrote the shit is responsible as much as
         | the person who ordered the change.
        
           | JohnFen wrote:
           | I could not agree more.
           | 
           | We are all responsible for our actions and the results our
           | actions cause. "I was just following orders" in no way
           | absolves anyone of that responsibility.
           | 
           | That you may pay a price for doing the right thing doesn't
           | make avoiding doing it acceptable.
        
       | porompompero wrote:
       | Extensible to nearly all professions? In academia it happens..
        
       | xhkkffbf wrote:
       | Just 75%? A friend was working for one of those AI startups. They
       | wanted him to download and effectively steal documents for
       | training their LLM. When he pointed out that the TOS explicitly
       | forbade mass downloading, they fired him immediately. Sleezy
       | times.
        
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       (page generated 2023-11-20 23:01 UTC)