[HN Gopher] Why doesn't Windows have an "expert mode"? (2003)
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Why doesn't Windows have an "expert mode"? (2003)
Author : scaglio
Score : 46 points
Date : 2023-11-19 20:10 UTC (2 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (devblogs.microsoft.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (devblogs.microsoft.com)
| xnzakg wrote:
| Technically "developer mode" in win10 is kind of a similar idea?
| xerox13ster wrote:
| This was DOS back in the day, no?
|
| TBH I wouldn't overly mind a version of Windows that really was
| just a terminal on top of the kernel, with the option to use the
| Windows shell or whatever other shell I want or build one if
| that's what I desired. Much like that most proselytized of Linux
| distros. It would still be Windows, but I would feel in control
| of it to some degree.
|
| But it would have to be something other than PowerShell, and I
| think that's a nonstarter for Microsoft.
| userbinator wrote:
| _TBH I wouldn 't overly mind a version of Windows that really
| was just a terminal on top of the kernel, with the option to
| use the Windows shell or whatever other shell I want or build
| one if that's what I desired._
|
| WinPE is literally that. A highly stripped-down version of
| Windows that boots to cmd.exe as a shell.
| pjmlp wrote:
| Windows Server Core.
| tw04 wrote:
| They have that, it's Windows server core.
|
| https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-server/administrat...
| layer8 wrote:
| You can configure Windows to boot into a custom shell:
| HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows
| NT\CurrentVersion\Winlogon\Shell
| wongarsu wrote:
| The Windows kernel is genuinely great. I wouldn't mind if
| somebody managed to make a better shell that runs on top the
| commercial Windows kernel.
| charcircuit wrote:
| A terminal does not make something expert mode. It just means
| that the software has an outdated user interface.
| MountainMan1312 wrote:
| Command lines aren't outdated. They're still far more
| efficient than GUI for a wide range of tasks.
| charcircuit wrote:
| Nope. Even in some absolute worst case scenario that you
| could come up with you can build a command line into a GUI.
| layer8 wrote:
| > I don't know squat about Active Directory.
|
| Damn, if even Raymond Chen doesn't understand AD...
| eurekin wrote:
| Brings back old memory on a AD lab, where our professor was
| presented with "contact your local administrator" dialog upon
| closing some simple configuration dialog.
|
| He had set-up the AD himself and had no idea where it came from
| yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
| Ah yes, the good old
|
| < Contract your system administrator.
|
| > _I am the system administrator!_
| mtVessel wrote:
| aka you _are_ the brute squad!
| yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
| Yeah, I appreciate it in both ways I've said it: Both
| "I'm the sysadmin, I'm in charge here, shut up and do
| what I said", and also "yeah, I'm the sysadmin and I have
| no idea what you're trying to tell me". In both cases I'm
| a bit put out with the machine, but somewhat different
| tones.
|
| I guess there's also the "oh, right - _sudo_ make me a
| sandwich ", but that's less notable in my experience.
| teaearlgraycold wrote:
| He may have learned a bit in the last 20 years
| userbinator wrote:
| AFAIK he worked mainly on the GUI side in Windows, so that's
| not really surprising.
| actuallyalys wrote:
| I completely agree that there are different types of expertise,
| but I'd expect experts to know their own expertise and not touch
| parts of a hypothetical "expert mode" outside their particular
| expertise.
| ninth_ant wrote:
| What you describe does not match my personal experience
| providing technical support, both professionally and socially.
| At all.
| MountainMan1312 wrote:
| Touching things outside of the arbitrary box others have placed
| them in is exactly how people become experts in the first
| place.
| RachelF wrote:
| It's called the registry. A very long linked list data structure
| designed to scare experts into using another OS. This process
| takes time as despair finally wins against hope.
| layer8 wrote:
| The registry is not that different from a file system,
| actually. It even allows mounting other "file systems"
| (registry hives).
| ratsmack wrote:
| And over time, it becomes a huge garbage dump that slowly
| degrades the performance of the computer.
| poisonborz wrote:
| This makes little sense without saying what an "expert mode" is.
| What is "geek settings turned on?". You can already configure
| ~everything and more via the windows registry or gpedit.msc.
| There are thousands of "expert settings" apps and special iso-s
| for anyone wanting more user friendly tweaking. Any OS that is
| enterprise-ready does not need any "I'm geek" checkbox.
| layer8 wrote:
| I think the argument is rather to make Windows simpler (because
| it's supposedly too complicated for many non-geeky users), but
| to retain an "expert mode" for the more "advanced" functions,
| or a slider as described.
| wongarsu wrote:
| Microsoft partially does that since at least Windows 10 by
| dumbing down and enshittening the Home Edition, while
| providing "expert settings" like the Group Policy Editor or
| better Windows Update settings in the Pro Edition and above.
| The strategy hasn't really proven popular so far
| mcpackieh wrote:
| > _What is "geek settings turned on?"._
|
| Not hiding file extensions. The worst setting Windows ever had,
| ostensibly intended for the benefit of noobs but I never
| understood why.
| HenryBemis wrote:
| YMMV - The reverse for me. I hate it when I don't see the
| extension. And you'd think that a file named File.xls.scr
| with the icon of the Excel would be seen by a user, but it
| doesn't.
| bhauer wrote:
| > _YMMV - The reverse for me. I hate it when I don 't see
| the extension._
|
| Sounds like it's _not_ the reverse for you. You and GP
| commenter both think hiding file extensions was a silly
| feature. And I agree.
| jojobas wrote:
| That, and hiding system and hidden files.
| meiraleal wrote:
| Because MS makes more money out of users than competitors/power
| users
| anonymouskimmer wrote:
| I asked for basically the opposite of this for MS Office
| products. I use Excel for specific purposes, and it would really
| make it more usable if I could easily hide a bunch of features
| (especially alternate click context menus that I accidentally
| engage during the middle of a _huge_ select or copy-paste
| sequence, requiring me to start over). While still having those
| unused features available via some drop-down menu.
| YaBa wrote:
| He's wrong. We do need an expert mode, at least to remove UAC in
| a simple way and allow us to mess around at will.
|
| Let's see, UAC is nice for your grandmother who might click on
| something that it shouldn't, yet, we, advanced users are
| constantly annoyed by those cof,cof "security" features who get
| in the way when doing something.
|
| Yet, your grandmother will eventually get ransomware or malware
| despite the UAC and other features, so, what's the point!??!
|
| At the moment I just remember UAC, but there are plenty of
| features that we want to turn off with a simple button and we
| can't, unless we play around with the registry or 3rd party apps.
|
| And this is why power users love Linux, we can do whatever we
| want, if we break it, it's fine and we can learn with it. At this
| rate, your computer will no longer be "your" computer, Microsoft
| will own it and you will like it.
| malfist wrote:
| Another example, for the love of God, let me disable windows
| defender without jumping through a bunch of hoops or installing
| another antivirus.
| RunSet wrote:
| https://www.sordum.org/9480/defender-control-v2-1/
| mschuster91 wrote:
| > Let's see, UAC is nice for your grandmother who might click
| on something that it shouldn't, yet, we, advanced users are
| constantly annoyed by those cof,cof "security" features who get
| in the way when doing something.
|
| Even for us power users, we might hit some drive-by exploit, a
| friend might send us something that got wormed or whatever. And
| now, unless that malware comes with a UAC bypass/privilege
| escalation exploit which is worth millions of dollars, we get
| an unexpected UAC prompt and have a chance to stop a minute and
| actually notice that something is Not Right.
| dist-epoch wrote:
| Unfortunately as more and more software is installed only for
| the user (in AppData), the malware can just infect a binary
| from there (Chrome, Discord, VS Code, ....)
| josephg wrote:
| Yeah - I've had this rant more times than I can count.
| Modern PC security is stupid because it protects users from
| other users (what other users?) but it doesn't protect
| users from bad software they run on their own account. When
| the computer only has 1 user anyway, there isn't much
| practical difference between the root user and my user
| account. But the elephant in the room is software supply
| chain attacks and malware. The fact any program I run can
| do anything it wants with all my files is ridiculous and
| appalling.
|
| Phones get it right. The Facebook app on my phone can't
| read Gmail's data. And Gmail can't access my photos without
| permission. On desktop any program can read or write to any
| of my files. And my files - photos, work, code - matter a
| lot more to me than anything my OS works hard to protect.
|
| There's no good technical reason, either. It's a problem of
| pure inertia.
| vondur wrote:
| Apple kind of does this with the MacOS now. It will
| continuously ask you for each app to give it permissions
| to specific folders (downloads, home directory) plus can
| the app use the camera, the microphone etc.. I feel like
| most people blindly just tap yes to get it out of the way
| and use the app they just installed.
| dist-epoch wrote:
| UAC is the Windows equivalent of sudo.
|
| Do you disable sudo on your Linux box or run everything as
| root?
| Longhanks wrote:
| You can absolutely log in as root and run anything with no
| questions asked.
|
| Where's that login for windows for those who want that?
| Hydraulix989 wrote:
| The expert mode is "Linux"
| firexcy wrote:
| If Windows could've been dialed back to be as not manipulative as
| it was at the time of the post's writing (ie 2k & XP), I would be
| glad to hold the temptation to self-claim as an expert.
| meatjuice wrote:
| A batch file that turns on all the "geeky features" will do
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(page generated 2023-11-19 23:01 UTC)