[HN Gopher] A map of ATMs designed to scam tourists in Europe
___________________________________________________________________
A map of ATMs designed to scam tourists in Europe
Author : janandonly
Score : 126 points
Date : 2023-11-19 18:23 UTC (4 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (twitter.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (twitter.com)
| paxys wrote:
| https://xkcd.com/1138/
| Throwfi44 wrote:
| Not best approach, some places are empty outside of narrow
| tourist season.
| MarkusWandel wrote:
| Google Street View? A few years ago I saw a social media shared
| pic of sunrise at Angkor Wat. It was beautiful, these splendid,
| isolated ruins, peaceful in the sunrise.
|
| Being curious about the area, I found the exact spot in Street
| View. Sunrise even. But then turned around 180 degrees. To find
| an absolute wall of photographers all capturing the same scene. I
| can't find that scene now though.
|
| But frequently these social media brags are very carefully chosen
| angles - why not, I do the same thing, minus the social media
| posting - and in Street View all you have to do is change view
| angle slightly to see the busy street, the commercial clutter
| etc.
| tayo42 wrote:
| Everyone takes the same photo there. the temples with the
| reflection in still water. all the tour guides take you the
| same place for the sun rise.
|
| angkor wat isnt some off the beaten path temple though. its
| like the only thing to do in siem reap, its gotta be cambodias
| biggest tourist attraction besides misery tourism in phnom
| penh.
| desertrider12 wrote:
| Angkor Wat isn't the only temple around Siem Reap, though. I
| agree that standing around with hundreds of people waiting
| for the sun to come up, then all crowding inside at the same
| time isn't the best experience. But on that same day, other
| temples in the area (Pre Rup, Neak Pean and Banteay Srei) had
| at most one other small group there. And really they're
| almost as impressive in their own ways - Neak Pean is small
| but has a beautiful reflecting pool surrounding the central
| structure.
|
| Same thing in Egypt too. Great pyramids are extremely crowded
| and you're constantly getting hassled by people selling crap.
| But at the less famous Dahshur area, or the less accessible
| Philae/Abu Simbel temples, nobody else was there and we could
| appreciate them in peace. For that it helped to go in the
| summer (low) season too.
| deanCommie wrote:
| I have this sad realization that the current generation is
| taking the backlash to this too far, and as as a result people
| don't want to go anywhere that's too "touristy" as a result.
|
| I get it.
|
| I want the solo unique ethereal earth-changing experiences too.
| But I can also point to two distinct comparison points.
|
| I got to have a fairly tourist-free experience in Angkor Wat. I
| intentionally travelled to Southeast Asia during the lowest
| time of the year - monsoon season. And I wound up in Siem Riep
| anand then Angkor in the middle of a rainstorm. Nobody was
| around. Yet the rain was warm. The temples were equally
| majestic. I had an incredible time feeling like I was actually
| exploring ancient undiscovered ruins by myself. Then the rain
| ended, and oh my, all those reflections. It was incredible.
|
| This was 2008. I don't know if this is possible today even in
| the "lowest" tourist season. But that's not the point, the
| point is that while I do cherish the memories of this day, I
| got to have an exactly opposite experience at Taj Mahal.
|
| By which i mean it was the HEIGHT of tourist season. I was in
| India for a Wedding and had no choice. It was hot. It was
| miserable. There were people everywhere.
|
| AND YET. The Taj Mahal was absolutely magnificent. A true
| wonder of humanity and our history. An absolutely incredible
| experience, and watching how the changing evening light danced
| off the marble and evolved the building was mindblowing. It
| didn't matter that there were seemingly 20,000 other people
| there with me.
|
| The democratization of travel is a good thing. That more and
| more people are exposed to other cultures and worlds is a good
| thing. That it inevitably brings photographers, instagrammers,
| influencers, and all the commercial activities associated with
| it are sad, but also ultimately worth it.
|
| I say this on a macro humanist scale. I'm sure the locals at
| cities that live in those "tourist traps" would greatly
| disagree and are desperate for change. But I'm not writing this
| to them.
|
| I'm writing this to folks on the internet that i know are out
| there that go "Ugh, I wish I could go see Angkor Wat/Taj
| Mahal/Leaning Tower of Pisa/Empire State Building, but I don't
| want to deal with the tens of thousands of tourists all taking
| the exact same picture."
|
| Forget all that. Go. Go where you want to go. Don't let the
| presence of anyone else affect your experience.
| doix wrote:
| Totally agree, even have a similar anecdote. I managed to
| visit Angkor Wat in March 2020, when people were just
| starting to take COVID seriously and Chinese tourists
| couldn't travel anywhere. Quite a few times it was just me
| and my friends walking around with nobody else around.
|
| My contrasting experience was when I visited the pyramids
| last summer. Still thousands of people despite it being +40
| degrees. It was hot and crowded, but it was still amazing.
|
| > but I don't want to deal with the tens of thousands of
| tourists all taking the exact same picture
|
| Yeah, I probably took the same picture as everyone else. The
| way I see it, every picture is unique, even if some are very
| similar [0]. My picture is to remind me of the time I was
| there, I want the shit weather and my shitty camera captured
| as part of the moment.
|
| [0] https://www.livescience.com/61970-photo-wave-
| coincidence.htm...
| tim333 wrote:
| Here's Angkor with I think the sunrise and photographers
| https://www.khmertimeskh.com/501255614/angkor-wat-voted-worl...
|
| but that place was voted "has been voted as the world's best
| place to see a sunrise" hence the popularity. Angkor is
| actually a huge place (400+ acres) and it's quite possible to
| avoid the crowds especially if you have your own transport.
| kzrdude wrote:
| Tourism if anything needs a way to point more people towards the
| long tail, not to crowd at the top.
| Karellen wrote:
| How do you stop the cycle of places in the long tail from
| becoming "go-to" destinations because they're in the long tail,
| having all the local flavour diluted from catering to the
| tourism, before being fully gentrified into identikit tourist
| traps, and being abandoned once they're "at the top" with their
| original local businesses gone, and trying to cater to the
| tourists who've all vanished? While those tourists are in
| search of the finding the next popularity-rising hotspot before
| the same thing happens to that?
|
| Maybe "tourism" is the problem?
| yorwba wrote:
| If you pick from the long tail at random, you're unlikely to
| encounter many other tourists. The "go-to" destination
| problem really only happens if you outsource the long-tail
| mining to some centralized source (e.g. popular social media
| posts) that ends up sending many people to the same place.
| madaxe_again wrote:
| Or just pick places which are an utter pain in the arse to
| get to - days of surface travel by 4x4, foot, boat, ski, or
| canoe. Makes for far more interesting stories, too. I ended
| up living in one of said "I've heard of it but I've never
| been" places. It's lovely. Pain in the ass to get anywhere,
| but if I don't want to see people, I don't, and those that
| I do see I usually chat with over a pitchfork, and walk
| away with a gifted sack of produce.
| alphabettsy wrote:
| Does the proximity of a Hard Rock Cafe count?
| keiferski wrote:
| Not necessarily. There is a Hard Rock Cafe right next to the
| main train station and major mall in Warsaw, and I wouldn't
| call that mall touristic. It's just a nice mall, as far as
| malls go.
| Symbiote wrote:
| I think Hard Rock Cafe exists to keep those tourists away
| from the other places.
|
| (Though I've only been in one once, when my friend's band
| played a gig.)
| Tade0 wrote:
| Considering it was the first such place in Poland, it's sort
| of a tourist trap in and of itself.
|
| Or was. Never been there, because 25PLN for a beer was an
| outrageous sum at the time.
| shortcake27 wrote:
| There's a Hard Rock cafe in Wroclaw charging 2x the price
| of every other restaurant. From memory 70PLN for a burger.
| And yet it's always full. I genuinely don't understand.
| brnt wrote:
| Many tourist are really scared of trying something they
| don't know.
| keiferski wrote:
| Sure, but I wouldn't call the area an ugly mass tourism
| zone. That would be more the Old Town.
| Tijdreiziger wrote:
| As a tourist who has been to said mall, it is a pretty damn
| nice mall, maybe the nicest I've been to.
|
| (I didn't go to the mall for touristic reasons, I just wanted
| to grab a bite after arriving in Warsaw by train.)
| seanmcdirmid wrote:
| Seattle had a Hard Rock Cafe for a couple of decades. I never
| saw anyone go there before, seems like most of the tourists
| just stand in line waiting to visit the first Starbucks.
| latchkey wrote:
| The Hard Rock Cafe in Saigon, before it closed down, was
| actually kind of fun (where else would you hear a live Rock
| coverband in Vietnam?) and the food was decent.
| alephnerd wrote:
| > where else would you hear a live Rock coverband in Vietnam
|
| Acoustic Bar and Yoko Cafe in D3
| latchkey wrote:
| So that's where they ended up?
| alephnerd wrote:
| Maybe? I was never in Saigon when the Hard Rock Cafe was
| around. That said, D3 has an amazing arts and culture
| scene. Lots of hip cafes, art shows, and popups. Plus,
| because of the large Viet Kieu community back in
| California, a lot of cultural interchange occurs between
| the two.
| evrimoztamur wrote:
| These ATMs are plenty useful for contributing to the local money
| laundering industry. More signals are unlisted prices, fading
| storefronts, fluorescent lights. Read more about what's happening
| in London https://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/oxford-street-
| candy-sho...
|
| It's not about scamming tourists at its core, it's about avoiding
| electronic banking networks and pulling cash back into the
| system.
|
| Disclaimer: Amsterdammer...
| philwelch wrote:
| > It's not about scamming tourists at its core, it's about
| avoiding electronic banking networks and pulling cash back into
| the system.
|
| You make it sound like a good thing.
| tim333 wrote:
| A lot of the London candy store thing is about not paying the
| very expensive business rates to the council. They are all
| owned by foreign controlled companies which just go bust come
| enforcement time.
|
| They are not much of a guide to bad areas, for example American
| Candyland (bad) is opposite Selfridges (popular). Streetview:
| https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.514156,-0.1516145,3a,75y,1...
| coldtea wrote:
| > _it's about avoiding electronic banking networks and pulling
| cash back into the system_
|
| So it's beneficial to society!
| lxgr wrote:
| What exactly is the supposed connection between these specific
| ATMs and money laundering? Nothing in the referenced article
| mentions ATMs.
| Symbiote wrote:
| I think the method is the shopkeeper receives dodgy cash, and
| puts that cash in the ATM in their shop.
|
| They get a clean EUR101 when someone makes a withdrawal, and
| the tourist has no problem spending the money.
| evrimoztamur wrote:
| Briefly put, it's not just the ATMs but the shops who
| launder. No prices makes it easy to lie about intake cash
| (revenue) which is part real revenue and part dirty cash.
| Then cook books for costs to extract clean cash.
| yankput wrote:
| Yeah how can you launder money with ATMs, all the cash in and
| out is accounted for in the system.
|
| They are scam but not for money laundering. Just scam.
| NautilusWave wrote:
| Does it have a Ripley's Believe It or Not! museum?
| cedilla wrote:
| Euronet ATMs being a scam is a very americentric view. The world
| is not /primarily/ designed to rip off tourist.
|
| Very evident with this map that just appears to be a differently
| labeled population heat map.
| crazygringo wrote:
| > _The world is not /primarily/ designed to rip off tourist._
|
| In my experiences with traveling to a great number of countries
| and cities... yes, it pretty much is.
|
| Taking any kind of "easiest path" tourism is basically full of
| rip-offs in every hotel, restaurant, and tour, no matter where
| you are.
|
| It takes effort to plan a genuinely enjoyable trip full of rich
| experiences that isn't ripping you off.
|
| Also, it doesn't seem to be a population map at all -- that
| distribution is quite different:
|
| https://www.mdpi.com/land/land-02-00252/article_deploy/html/...
| fl7305 wrote:
| If you do happen to end up in a tourist trap location and are
| looking for a good lunch restaurant, pick one where the local
| construction workers and police go to eat.
| Leherenn wrote:
| Does it actually work? My experience in Europe (well a few
| places at least) is that most blue collar workers don't eat
| lunch in a restaurant, it's way too expansive (and time
| consuming). They either pack it from home, go to the local
| grocery/convenience store or maybe hit a fast food
| place/cheap take away.
|
| It might work better in cultures with a more developed eat-
| out culture like in Asia.
| llamaInSouth wrote:
| around here the police tend to go in restaurants I like
| (atlanta)
| deathanatos wrote:
| I mean, I used to work in SF, in North Beach1.
| Fisherman's Wharf is the tourist trap, and it's like
| right there, and in the years I worked for, never ate
| there. (I've been there as a tourist though.)
|
| For lunch we'd hike over the hill into little Italy, and
| there was a decent sandwich shop we'd get lunch at.
| (Freddy's) Before the hill there was a small asian couple
| who ran a small shop, they made a good mushroom stew. No
| idea if they're still in business, though, or what their
| place was called.
|
| Neither were restaurants ... you weren't going to be
| finding a seat at least inside. There's plenty of seating
| around SF though, if you know where to look.
|
| 1although Google thinks NB is actually a bit W of where
| we were.
| hakfoo wrote:
| Wouldn't it make sense to use something like Google Maps,
| filter to the lowest one or two price categories, and go
| from there?
|
| I'd figure Google Maps, being less explicitly targeted to
| tourists, would be likely to include reviews and pricing
| data relative to a local mentality, which might not be so
| willing to spend tourist prices.
|
| It's easier, I suppose, if you're doing a walking/public
| transit oriented trip and are in a city-- if you don't like
| what you see when you close in, just go 50 metres further
| down the street.
| hgomersall wrote:
| I've travelled extensively in Europe, it being where I live,
| using all different strategies. I've never been ripped off.
| I've been to a hostel from someone we met at the train
| station in Prague. It was fine and good value. Also similar
| story at lake Balaton. It turns out protectively selling
| something is not synonymous with being a scam artist.
| shortcake27 wrote:
| Yeah, I've also travelled extensively around Europe, west,
| central, and east, to some of the most touristy cities in
| the world, and never been ripped off. OK, my current hostel
| is charging EUR8.50 for a continental breakfast, so I just
| go elsewhere. I don't think it's a rip if you're informed
| of the price and choose to pay - that's on you.
|
| Unfortunately I have been ripped in SE Asia, and moreso in
| Central America, where prices were almost never displayed,
| and I was charged US prices for almost everything.
| crazygringo wrote:
| You've never had a taxi try to charge you EUR40 for what a
| local knows is a EUR12 ride?
| hgomersall wrote:
| I take as few taxis as possible, so no.
| bee_rider wrote:
| If it costs extra to work out a plan that doesn't "rip you
| off," and the easy path is full of "rip offs," then maybe it
| is just paying a premium for convenience?
| yieldcrv wrote:
| they aren't even a scam if the American has a good bank
|
| those ATMs give you a choice on how to do currency conversion
| and my bank will do withdrawals at spot rate! I check forex and
| futures charts and I get the same rate.
|
| and other than that just a normal ATM fee the same as I would
| encounter in the states. some banks reimburse those too.
| gpvos wrote:
| Most Europeans are used to zero or low ATM fees, at least
| when no conversion is needed. Our banks don't tend to do the
| fee and reimbursement dance that I've heard American banks
| do.
|
| That said, I've noticed that when I withdraw a non-euro
| currency, my own bank fee has been creeping up and is
| approaching the conversion rate and fee offered by the ATMs,
| so maybe I need to change my policy about that in the future.
| unflxw wrote:
| Not all tourists are Americans. I would expect the average
| person scammed by these ATMs is an European citizen from a
| different country.
|
| I agree the map kinda sucks, because most of the island of
| Mallorca is a tourist trap at this point. But you can see how
| the interior's population centers, like Inca, Sa Pobla and
| Manacor, have none.
|
| For a better example, as one of the replies to the tweet
| suggests, check using Google Maps around Barcelona. You can see
| sixteen of them crowded around Sagrada Familia, for example,
| and barely any in the mostly-residential neighbourhoods further
| north.
| orwin wrote:
| Most Europeans citizens use euros so they won't get 'scammed'
| by euronet ARMs, as the only 'scam' there is currency
| conversion (and fees if you use an 'out of network bank', so
| I think if you are at Boa it should be fine)
| izacus wrote:
| That's not true at all, Euronet ATMs will happily add 5EUR+
| to your withdrawal - something (local) bank owned ATMs
| usually don't.
|
| There's a reason why they got such a bad reputation.
| LargoLasskhyfv wrote:
| Yah, well. That's also true for the ATMs in Germany,
| operated by the 'Sparkasse' (usually big red S) or
| 'Volksbank/Raiffeisenbank' (usually orange/blue signage)
| when you want to withdraw cash as customer of the
| 'Cashgroup' (Deutsche-/Post-/Commerz-/Hypo-Vereinsbank).
| Hm, k, just 4EUR and 80cents. But still...
| gpvos wrote:
| There are still quite a few countries in Europe that don't
| use the euro, so conversion is an issue there. And most
| Euronet ATMs have a high surcharge even when drawing euros
| from a euro account (this may differ per country and
| location).
| izacus wrote:
| Even as a European I can confidently say that Euronet ATMs are
| complete, utter scam and they have a tendency to show up in
| most scammy tourist areas to prey on foreigners.
|
| Even here across southern Europe they always start popping up
| in areas that usually have other seedy businesses preying on
| people. Lately they don't even show their brand and colors
| anymore... only showing foreign languaged "ATM" sign with no
| bank logo.
|
| Avoid them like the plague.
| paganel wrote:
| Same goes for Eastern Europe, and I have the same
| recommendation, avoid them like the plague.
|
| Also (and maybe this only applies for Bucharest, but good to
| know regardless), avoid changing currency (USD to local RON,
| in Romania's case) just as you get off the airplane, the
| exchange rates inside the airport are rip-offs pure and
| simple. The currency exchange shops inside Bucharest proper
| are more than decent, though, no rip-offs there.
| Tijdreiziger wrote:
| I tend to use an ATM inside the train station/airport and
| decline any DCC (dynamic currency conversion), that way I
| get my debit card's exchange rate, which I know is
| reasonable.
| peterfa wrote:
| I made that map, and I'm not American. You can google
| "population density map Mallorca" and compare. I had the same
| assumption as you, so I googled it before publishing.
| deanCommie wrote:
| Funny I had the opposite perspective - Euronet ATMs being a
| scam is a very EUROcentric view.
|
| In America and Canada, _ALL_ ATMs are scams with exorbitant
| fees except for the customers of the bank of that ATM.
|
| The whole "Sorry, we're cash only, but there's an ATM in the
| back" is ubiquitous.
|
| When I moved to Europe in the mid 2010s I was shocked that I
| could use my bank card to withdraw cash from any other bank
| without fees.
| philwelch wrote:
| There are plenty of American banks that will reimburse ATM
| fees. It's an essential feature IMO.
| shortcake27 wrote:
| In Australia and the UK there are no fees for withdrawing
| from a bank ATM (independent ATMs can still charge fees).
|
| IMHO this is superior to the bank refunding you. It doesn't
| cost the bank $2+ to allow you to access your own money
| from a different ATM, it's just rent seeking.
| seanmcdirmid wrote:
| HSBC refunds ATM fees, which is nice since they don't have
| many ATMs in North America. Then I realized I can get by
| without using ATMs at all unless I'm traveling out of
| country.
| codedokode wrote:
| I googled a little and found a Belorussian article [1] that
| says, that first it is an American company (despite the name),
| second, it targets tourists, and third, they use DCC (dynamic
| currency conversion), so that when you want to withdraw euros
| from account in euros, they do double conversion, e.g. euro ->
| USD -> euro with very unfavourable exchange rate.
|
| [1]
| https://www.alfabank.by/about/articles/main/Euronet_DCC_11_0...
| sails wrote:
| Having lived in Palma I can confirm that this is indeed a decent
| way to avoid the two nightmare tourist areas (and not just a
| population density, as the central Palma area would be larger).
|
| I like this idea for proxy maps. Do the same for London with
| American candy stores
| jl6 wrote:
| But the candy stores are in some popular places that are
| otherwise interesting to visit. Same as Angus Steakhouses. The
| winning move is to look at the sights but bring a packed lunch.
| CPLX wrote:
| Just type "wax museum" into Google Maps.
| martopix wrote:
| I had a wonderful trip in Thailand last year by doing two things:
| 1. roadtripping: I rented a motorcycle and chose a (relatively
| touristy) destination, but enjoyed the trip to get there over
| several days, during which I designed my own itinerary and
| stopped to look at the countriside and visit small towns. 2. I
| designed the itinerary while avoiding Lonely Planet and the like.
| By now everybody uses that and goes to the same places. Instead,
| to my surprise, I found that Google Maps makes a great guide. You
| can click on any places around an area, and see how they look
| like, whether they have hotels and cafes, if that temple over
| there is worth a look, if the view along that road is nice. For
| ANY town.
| kurthr wrote:
| Yeah, strangely google (and more local tools like Openrice or
| Tabelog) is much better for finding good spots. Locals are more
| discerning, but if you don't speak the local language it can
| get difficult. Travelocity is almost the opposite since ratings
| are almost directly proportional to the ability to interact
| with (English speaking) foreigners.
| vachina wrote:
| Hmmm yeah. Google Travel used to provide very useful n-days
| itinerary on a city level, where it plans out, and shows on a
| map, the most efficient way to visit a city.
|
| That feature seems to have been nuked and I'm sad.
| dylan604 wrote:
| If you see it in a TikTok/Insta feed, it's over crowded.
| Although, if you're like me that doesn't use the socials, it's
| hard to check
| paganel wrote:
| The same goes for simple enough web searches like "what are the
| most beautiful 10 beaches in [Mediterranean
| country/province]?".
|
| Surprisingly enough there are other people who still know how
| to web-search, hence why those places are crowded even at the
| end of the holiday season. I became aware of that basic fact
| this past September, while visiting the Peloponnese.
| hfh66 wrote:
| Use insta location tags and check what the top posts are for that
| spot.
|
| If they are all influncer posts then skip it.
| Freak_NL wrote:
| The mention of the presence of a Spar supermarket in Europe being
| a marker for overtouristed areas seems oddly area specific. In
| most European countries which have them these are bog-standard
| supermarkets.
| lopis wrote:
| Maybe I'm wrong but that's probably only true in DACH and maybe
| a couple other1 surrounding places. Outside that sphere, the
| rule does seem to apply that Spar is a mass tourist smell.
| spacechild1 wrote:
| In Austria, Spar is one of the two major supermarket chains.
| (The other one is Billa.)
| Sharlin wrote:
| DACH = Germany, Austria, Switzerland
| LargoLasskhyfv wrote:
| In .D(e) SPAR is dead. What can be seen labeled as SPAR, or
| Spar-Express, 'to go', or whatever, is operated by Edeka and
| is indeed catering to so called 'captive audiences' in
| airports, railway-/subway-/metro stations, little kiosks on
| platforms, gas-/fuel stations, and some larger locations in
| some downtowns, whose independent owners couldn't be bothered
| to 'reflag/relabel'. With the exception of the latter, they
| all have one thing in common: huge prices for common crap.
| entropyie wrote:
| They are absolutely everywhere in Ireland, from countryside to
| city centre, rich and poor areas.
| pmckenna wrote:
| Was going to say the same thing. There's zero correlation
| between touristy spots and Spar in Ireland, unless East Wall
| has suddenly become a tourist hot spot without me hearing
| about it
| cianmm wrote:
| Kin has really had the Sherif Street tourism industry
| breaking new ground
| HenryBemis wrote:
| I was in Mallorca this summer. And I have shopped from Spar
| across Europe in the past.
|
| The various "Spar" in Mallorca are mom & pop mini markets
| with 20% higher prices than the Mercadona or Lidl. Walking
| outside such a "Spar" one you SEE that this is not you
| "central-europe-1000 sqm shop" but a rip-off with a Spar
| label on it.
|
| I haven't paid attention on the ATMs though. I believe that
| with the prevalence of Conotoxia, Revolut, and the likes,
| and the fact that everywhere* in Mallorca you can pay with
| your phone/watch, it makes carrying cash unnecessary
|
| *and I mean flea-market that sells crap that only tourists
| would buy, or bread/cheese/snacks/etc.
| Ekaros wrote:
| So they just are the certain size category shops. Usually
| small as the retail spaces are not supermarket sized.
| Thus they don't get benefits from scale and end up being
| expensive.
|
| The reality is that there is no big retail spaces near
| tourist attractions. Or those are much valuable when
| split up. Thus you end up with smaller stores that do not
| benefit as much from scale.
|
| If you do not like the prices, just travel enough to find
| equivalent of Walmart...
| jmkd wrote:
| I live in Mallorca and the amount of retailers and
| services that only take cash is significant, it includes:
|
| - several Palma bus lines (if you don't have the bus
| card)
|
| - the most traditional bakeries, tailors, dry cleaners
| and so on
|
| - 95% of the traders in my local municipal fruit and veg
| market
|
| - 95% of the traders in the largest antiques market
|
| - many cleaners, gardeners, painters, physiotherapists,
| swim instructors, yoga teachers etc
|
| In addition, many places will offer one price for cash,
| and another for paying with card, and we know what that's
| about.
|
| I've had to relearn having cash on my person, otherwise
| you can't get what you need several times a week.
| arp242 wrote:
| And there are also tons of Irish pubs!
|
| Therefore, all of Ireland is a ugly mass tourist place.
|
| QED.
| FFP999 wrote:
| I don't think anyone is holding Ireland responsible for
| "Irish" pubs. It somehow just became a genre of bar on its
| own, and it's easy to do in a lazy caricatured way,
| suitable for someone whose chief aim in owning a bar is
| rooking tourists: shamrock-based logo, change the name to
| "O'Whoever's", and have Guinness on tap, good to go.
|
| Then you have other places like my old hangout from 20
| years ago, which had a few of the same visual signifiers of
| Irishness, but the owner being in fact an Irishman, he
| didn't feel the need to go overboard with that. Hope that
| place is still open and doing well.
| as-j wrote:
| I thought batter example would the presence of a Hard Rock
| Cafe. :)
| Ekaros wrote:
| I have wondered is there actually anything wrong with mass
| tourism? Wouldn't properly build for tourism destinations
| actually be overall better option? As long as they do not become
| over relied on. At least if we must have tourism and do not ban
| it altogether...
|
| Mass tourism would allow optimization for environment and not to
| destroy areas that people actually work and live in. See the
| AirBnB effect for example. And in general the drug use and noise
| caused by them...
| timeon wrote:
| I think topic here is more about personal preference than
| something like environmental concerns.
| lm28469 wrote:
| The thing is if you have to take the plane to get there you're
| already a major net negative for the environment, and that
| would get rid of most mass tourism places
|
| We should live like our grandparents, a few (if any) big trips
| in your lifetime, everything else: in your country or close
| neighboring ones.
| philwelch wrote:
| If you really want to reduce your carbon emissions you can
| start smoking, that will cut years off your life expectancy
| and, as a consequence, your lifetime carbon emissions.
| denton-scratch wrote:
| As a heavy smoker, I rather like that excuse.
| rgmerk wrote:
| Ever visited a proper tourist trap? They're awful places no
| sane adult would ever spend time in.
|
| They exist for people who don't want to actually experience
| anything unfamiliar when they travel.
| robocat wrote:
| That is a very condescending take.
|
| Lots of people choose to go to tourist traps for their own
| reasons. You don't have to like what they like. Like many, I
| even go back to some "terribly" touristy places because it is
| what I wish to do.
|
| I also do off-the-beaten-path travel as well. But I usually
| can't blend in as though I were a local. I also have the
| freedoms and restrictions usual to tourists.
|
| Examples: I enjoy touristy Queenstown in my own country. I
| like Bali. Not a fan of Bangkok.
|
| On-topic: Backpacker accommodation and number of hotels
| signal tourist areas. To avoid tourists, don't stay in
| convenient accommodation!
| Ekaros wrote:
| I was on cruise... I think that is beyond tourist trap.
|
| In February I got trip to Canary Islands, because that was
| rather cheap. Pure tourism, but it is a vacation.
|
| I have been to cities like Florence and London and more. Both
| tourist traps in essence.
|
| Now that I think I don't think I have really gone to non-
| tourist trap place. As you know there is no flights or
| transport to such location which make it hard to visit...
| denton-scratch wrote:
| You seem to be suggesting that by creating purpose-built mass-
| tourism destinations, tourists wouldn't continue to congregate
| in real places, where people live, shop and work.
|
| I live in the centre of an attractive, old university town. We
| have druggies and dossers; typically, they don't have local
| accents (druggies and dossers seem to have their own accent, so
| perhaps that doesn't mean they're non-local).
|
| But the streets around here are increasingly impassable,
| because of people taking photos (of _anything_ ) and blocking
| pedestrians, and columns of foreign language students
| 100-strong. These people don't come here because it's "properly
| built" for tourists; they come here because it's old and
| pretty.
|
| To be fair, most of the tourists are daytrippers; they don't
| stay here overnight, and they don't spend much. Maybe they're
| only here because it's on the tour company list, and maybe it's
| because they want a selfie in front of $MONUMENT for their
| instagram feed.
|
| IMO they'd get more out of their visit if they'd actually look
| at $MONUMENT in real life.
| thinkingemote wrote:
| These types of maps just show where people/tourists are which
| render them not that useful. It needs to be proportionate and
| comparative. E.g. normalised against daytime population, number
| of shops, restaurants or hotels so you can compare which similar
| areas do have more ATMs compared to other less "ugly" areas.
|
| Comparing them against published population maps wont work
| because 1) those show where locals live 2) not where people go
| for entertainment and 3) tourists and hotels are not counted as
| population. Now, it will work if the aim is to go to quiet places
| with only locals and not much points of interest - I've tried
| this as a tourist strategy and ended up in an area surrounded by
| residential tower blocks and one basic cafe and a shop
| underneath.
| varjag wrote:
| Right it's more like "destinations interesting to tourists have
| tourist traps".
|
| E.g. Inca on the map in the tweet is certainly a locals town
| but it's also hardly anything to see or do there.
| anjel wrote:
| If you publish a map or any means of sidestepping BIGTourism you
| will also surely bespoil the untainted.
| nihonthrowaway wrote:
| For London: A map of mosques that don't allow women is a good
| contra indicator.
| contingencies wrote:
| Expensive hotels, airport, American or pizza restaurants,
| guidebook with >3 editions, supermarkets instead of traditional
| markets, construction right up to the waterline, a 'bar street',
| a dense cluster of backpacker hostels, open drug dealing,
| monopoly lockdown on connecting transport (flight/bus/boat
| company), tourist behavior making international news, existence
| of mass-market souvenirs, a 'tourist police' department, dance
| clubs, high end ice cream chain stores.
| lm28469 wrote:
| Search the place on Instagram and if it has more than a few
| thousand tags you're about to enter hell
|
| Some people seem to love being handled like cattle though
| styluss wrote:
| You can look at Google Maps' "Popular Times"
| forthwall wrote:
| For me a good sign of a mass tourism area is where there's people
| in front of restaurants asking people to step in to eat
| coldtea wrote:
| If you visit them they'll become "ugly mass tourism places".
| Better to not identify them and stay at your area, unless
| absolutely necessary (i.e. not for tourism).
| bradleyjg wrote:
| Go on tinder. If you swipe through 100 profiles and see a place
| more than once, avoid it like the plague. Probably him/her too.
| cat_plus_plus wrote:
| A bit elitist? "Ugly mass tourism places" are there because
| weather is good, location is convenient, one of a kind landmarks,
| it's easy to get food and supplies for the whole family and so
| on. Yes, it's going to be expensive and not super authentic. But
| not everyone can take a month off to live like a local. If I only
| have one day cruise ship stop in Mallorca and I have to pay 60
| euro fee to get cash, it's still preferable to missing out on a
| nice dinner or something to take home to remember the trip.
| vbeeaz wrote:
| The subtext here is that some people hate it when the poor can
| enjoy things. I know it sounds like a joke and that it's hard
| to believe, but that's what's happening.
| Sharlin wrote:
| Huh? It's the less wealthy _in particular_ who benefit the
| most from choosing paths less traveled, finding places to eat
| where the food doesn 't carry a 2x or 3x tourist markup and
| the ATMs are not rigged to scam you. Often these paths are
| literally a quarter hour away from the worst tourist traps.
| TeMPOraL wrote:
| To be fair, being at the profiting end of those traps is
| one of the ways in which, as GP put it, "the poor can enjoy
| things".
| rgmerk wrote:
| The point of tourist traps is that you're not poor when you
| enter the trap, but you're poor afterwards.
| pempem wrote:
| Which part is elitist? The description or suggesting that
| paying 60euro for cash is acceptable?
|
| Wild.
| jl6 wrote:
| It's hard to find counterexamples to "safe, interesting, cheap:
| pick two."
| oriettaxx wrote:
| I guess the scam is related to euronet commissions, isn't?
|
| is case what is an typical commission for Euronet ATM?
| oriettaxx wrote:
| found some info in https://www.monito.com/en/wiki/euronet-atm-
| charges-and-fees#...
|
| What is Euronet?
|
| Euronet Worldwide is an American-headquartered worldwide
| provider of electronic payment services. It operates the
| largest independent ATM network in Europe and owns a total of
| almost 46,000 ATMs around the world. Euronet's
| high ATM fees and exchange rates have regularly been
| criticised, but the company has frequently defended itself,
| saying that such fees are necessary to cover ATM running costs
| and the convenience that these machines provide. However,
| considering that many of Euronet's ATMs can be found in
| locations such as airports and supermarkets - where if you need
| cash fast, there's little other choice - you could argue that
| Euronet has found an easy way to generate additional income.
|
| and Euronet ATMs charge high fees that can
| quickly catch you out. Here's what you need to know:
| Euronet ATM withdrawal fees vary from EUR1.95 to EUR4.99
| dynamic currency conversions (DCCs) can stack up to 13% of the
| total amount, you'll find Euronet ATMs in tourist locations
| (e.g. airports, shopping centres, busy streets, etc.),
| we recommend avoiding Euronet ATMs wherever possible.
| thealistra wrote:
| Most Polish people have free ATM withdrawals from Euronet per
| their bank account agreement. In Poland it is probably the
| most popular ATM chain. Where there's a lot of ATMs there's a
| lot of people - not specifically tourists.
|
| This article is weird about assuming that.
| none_to_remain wrote:
| I caught onto to this scam at an airport ATM in Poland 6-7 years
| ago. The hard sell definitely flagged it to me - it said
| something about how the ATM could guarantee their conversion rate
| but if I had my bank handle the exchange the ATM had no idea what
| I would get, could be much much worse. I googled the nominal
| exchange rate and decided I would take my chances with the bank,
| which was the correct decision.
|
| What I thought was crazy is that back then, and now, with a few
| minutes' looking I couldn't find the rate the bank would give me.
| dkjaudyeqooe wrote:
| Paypal has this same scam going, but they charge up 6% plus and
| you'll still get the 3% FTF from your card company.
| AussieWog93 wrote:
| I do a lot of PayPal stuff and this isn't true. You only get
| charged their fee (closer to 2-3% for AUD-CNY and AUD-USD)
| when converting your balance from one currency to another.
|
| If your card gets charged in a foreign currency, the bank
| takes a few but PayPal won't.
| advisedwang wrote:
| Most banks just let visa/mastercard do the exchange and maybe
| tac on a % fee. So the bank doesn't list an exchange rate
| because they don't maintain one. So find out in advance if your
| bank adds a fee and then check Visa [1] or mastercard [2] when
| you actually need to work it out.
|
| [1] https://usa.visa.com/support/consumer/travel-
| support/exchang...
|
| [2] https://www.mastercard.us/en-us/personal/get-
| support/convert...
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