[HN Gopher] No "malfeasance" behind Sam Altman's firing, OpenAI ...
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       No "malfeasance" behind Sam Altman's firing, OpenAI memo says
        
       Author : felixbraun
       Score  : 31 points
       Date   : 2023-11-18 18:37 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.axios.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.axios.com)
        
       | jayveeone wrote:
       | So why the spectacle? Why the melodramatic press release and
       | thoughtless communication with investors?
       | 
       | I will not shed a tear for Altman or Microsoft, but this
       | fantastic Friday massacre, don't seem to line up with cause.
        
       | morph123 wrote:
       | As smart as the people are at OpenAI they sure do some incredibly
       | stupid things.
       | 
       | I guess it proves that this "company" is ran by scientists and
       | not business people, which I guess is reassuring?
        
         | CamperBob2 wrote:
         | The company is run, somehow, by people who have never run much
         | of anything in their lives. Results are as expected.
         | 
         | How that situation came about would be an interesting story in
         | itself.
        
           | belter wrote:
           | Does that not apply also to Sam Altman?
        
         | Zigurd wrote:
         | Did only Sam have Satya Nadella's phone number? Seems like a
         | rude surprise for a Friday afternoon.
        
           | belter wrote:
           | Your concern for Microsoft feelings is noted...
        
         | tempsy wrote:
         | I mean most of the people high up in the company as well as the
         | entire board appear to be fairly junior (early to mid 30s).
        
       | jessenaser wrote:
       | If this was a division over the safety of models, the safest
       | thing they could do is to release older models as soon as they
       | release a new one.
       | 
       | If they release GPT-5 (closed), then they should release GPT-3.5
       | with its weights, stack, and documentation.
       | 
       | Real research can be done to see what safety precautions can be
       | learned from it, as the successors are quite similar. For
       | example, GPT-3.5 is still updated with features as of Dev Day,
       | and gives a quite similar tech stack to the newest models.
       | 
       | --> What no one on Earth wants to bet on is a few people in San
       | Francisco figuring safety out, when the rest of the world could
       | be working on that. <--
       | 
       | If a model is leaked to the public, you have no time to prepare
       | for safety. The damage is done.
       | 
       | If a model is kept forever behind closed doors you do not follow
       | your mission of safe AGI. This only proves that overnight moves
       | could be made that destabilizes who has control over the most
       | powerful models. At least an open release of older models shows
       | your dedication to innovation and safety.
       | 
       | I'd bet that since Microsoft has a copy of the stack and weights,
       | and that the US govt has their own Azure instance cloud, the US
       | already has a copy of OpenAI's technology. So its not going to
       | die if OpenAI crumbles. It just goes to two different hands.
       | 
       | ---
       | 
       | And this is just a bare minimum step. Not even considering this
       | means there is a larger problem than ideological division. It is
       | more like a power grab.
       | 
       | *As much as people think that releasing models is a safety risk,
       | it might just be the best thing you can do.*
       | 
       | ---
       | 
       | Economical Steps for a release that satisfies safety and
       | investment (don't give away your MOAT):
       | 
       | Current Model: GPT-4; Faster/Cheaper option: GPT-3.5; Fully
       | Release GPT-3
       | 
       | Current Model: GPT-5; Faster/Cheaper option: GPT-4; Fully Release
       | GPT-3.5
       | 
       | Current Model: GPT-6; Faster/Cheaper option: GPT-5; Fully Release
       | GPT-4
        
         | nathanaldensr wrote:
         | Define "safety," because for me and others, the definition
         | seems to be "not projecting politically-incorrect views or
         | information" or just straight up censorship.
        
           | CamperBob2 wrote:
           | "Safety" = "Our company is safe from competition, thanks to
           | captive regulators."
        
           | photochemsyn wrote:
           | The only thing that immediately comes to mind is you don't
           | want a model capable of writing a Stuxnet-type cyberweapon
           | for a script kiddie to use.
           | 
           | All the other stuff about nuclear/chemical/biological/illegal
           | drugs etc. is basically nonsense, that information is in the
           | public domain already and the way governments try to control
           | it is through legal restrictions like Select Agent Rules.
           | Likewise, the result of giving most people a recipe for a
           | chemical weapon is that they'll end up poisoning themselves,
           | and those who won't already possess the requisite skills
           | (happily the vast majority of trained experts in these fields
           | aren't psychopaths). The real risk here is governments doing
           | such things in the name of national security, I think.
           | 
           | The other argument that many have adopted, that LLMs will
           | make such cunningly clever arguments that gullible humans
           | will follow them to their own destruction (I assume this
           | means getting the masses to embrace communism or fascism or
           | tax the uber-wealthy or something like that) seems utterly
           | ridiculous to me, even though that's probably the "AI threat"
           | I've seen the most ink spilled about. The best defense
           | against such dark arts is simply teaching critical thinking
           | skills to children.
        
           | jessenaser wrote:
           | At bare minimum it is to define and understand what are the
           | capabilities of a model.
           | 
           | Just like with missiles. They could be short range, ICBM, or
           | nuclear.
           | 
           | So if a model could make real looking videos that could
           | confuse even expert analysis, and the general public, then we
           | should prepare by doing X, Y, Z, so that the public cannot be
           | confused by fake video, since we have some preventions.
           | 
           | X, Y, Z, are mitigations. They do not, and will not work if
           | they are censorship, since the other person can release a
           | model that is uncensored and use it. That misses the point of
           | the problem. Since others have it, your mitigation is to make
           | software systems where you can sort posts by being real or
           | fake. How you do it is an example of safety research.
           | 
           | Safety is not talking about restricting models, it is talking
           | about mitigating the negative effects of a weapon used the
           | wrong way. Same thing with code. Malware will exist, so you
           | must make a firewall, or train employees to not click
           | phishing links, ...
           | 
           | The safety research is finding the best methods of
           | mitigation, and a small team in SF is not going to be the
           | best at doing this. If the world knew the extent of a model,
           | they know what extent of mitigations they can do.
           | 
           | Overnight actions and power struggles in an organization can
           | happen. If the world had these models, even the risk of
           | OpenAI using them in a bad way, or restricting access to just
           | themselves on usage of models, would be a more minimal risk
           | issue, since two models ago are open.
        
       | yankput wrote:
       | This really feel like a supervillain origin story though
       | 
       | Now Sam should make a green goblin mask and learn how to fly
       | around town
        
         | sage76 wrote:
         | Ilya is spiderman then lol.
        
       | croes wrote:
       | Duplicate
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38322688
        
       | pelagicAustral wrote:
       | OpenAI has been bleeding money for a while [0]. Why would it be
       | so crazy that the board wants heads to roll? The craziest part
       | really is that he literally was allowed to give a keynote like a
       | week ago (a good one), but of course, have they sacked him
       | before... what kind of message that sends. Instead, he got sacked
       | after, ANNOUNCEMENTS WERE MADE!
       | 
       | 0: https://futurism.com/the-byte/openai-losing-money-chatgpt
        
         | LeafItAlone wrote:
         | 1. It seems like everyone in the space is loosing money and yet
         | investors still seem willing to just keep throwing more at
         | them.
         | 
         | 2. From other accounts, the people they fired were the ones
         | leaving more heavily towards commercialization. Based on what
         | I've read (which is certainly multiple steps removed from the
         | source), these would have been the wrong members to oust if the
         | goal was to make more money.
        
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       (page generated 2023-11-18 23:01 UTC)