[HN Gopher] Eoops: An object-oriented programming system for Ema...
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Eoops: An object-oriented programming system for Emacs-Lisp (1992)
Author : lr0
Score : 63 points
Date : 2023-11-18 08:25 UTC (14 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (dl.acm.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (dl.acm.org)
| erk__ wrote:
| I guess the implementation of EIEIO came later than this
|
| https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/eieio/
| smitty1e wrote:
| Right. Title should show 1992.
| d0mine wrote:
| Note: support for old EIEIO functions is not autoloaded any
| more in Emacs 29.1
| https://www.masteringemacs.org/article/whats-new-in-emacs-29...
| agumonkey wrote:
| as /u/arthurno1 nicely noted, there's code online, see:
| https://old.reddit.com/r/emacs/comments/17xuf0z/eoops_an_obj...
| KaiserPro wrote:
| Eoop lad, lets get t'keyboard and do t'programming
|
| (yes, thats a bad yorkshire accent)
| spindle wrote:
| KEYBOARD? Tha were lucky
| bloopernova wrote:
| LUCK?! Tha were lucky!
| benj111 wrote:
| As a Yorkshire man, I can confirm that we do speak like that.
|
| And I also approve of this system.
|
| I may use it while driving around in my VW e up. Well obviously
| my whippet would be using it, it isn't safe to program and
| drive.
| mst wrote:
| As a Lancashire lad, I can confirm that, sadly, they do
| indeed.
|
| (for those unfamiliar with this side of the pond, Lancashire
| and Yorkshire are mortal enemies right up until a Southerner
| tries it on at which point Northern Solidarity kicks in and
| we take them out first -then- go back to bickering ;)
| benj111 wrote:
| Tell me about it, my girlfriend's Spanish and lives in
| Lancashire.
|
| I'm the foreigner when I go over there. (Don't worry I have
| my passport, and jabs are up to date).
| KaiserPro wrote:
| Lancashire!? let me tell thee lad.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqAbMbRQ3jE
|
| This man ers frum bolton, and this is hus pro-ject.
| mst wrote:
| Oh gods bowt'n.
|
| Last time I was there I overheard two women walking down
| the street having an argument because one of them thought
| that 11am was too early for crack.
|
| Then I went into a computer game shop and a small child
| in a pram stabbed me in the leg.
|
| Miserable bastard place, I'd rather have to go back to
| skem* _.
|
| *_ skelmersdale, for the multisyllabic ... which most of
| the residents aren't
| KaiserPro wrote:
| skemmy by name, skemmy by nature. A new town too far,
| poor fucking place.
| throwaway81523 wrote:
| I did something like that 20+ years ago, a subset of Flavors with
| some graphics classes, running inside of Emacs. My school deleted
| my account with all the code in it at the end of a semester.
| Gack.
| agumonkey wrote:
| Oh what a shame. Did you write other languages / dialects since
| ?
| throwaway81523 wrote:
| Not sure what you mean about other languages. At the time (as
| a snotty undergrad) I thought what I was doing was exciting
| and important, but I can't say for sure that it would have
| turned into anything interesting. The OO stuff worked ok but
| the amount of user functionality that I got working wasn't
| that great.
| jbotz wrote:
| 1992
| bitwize wrote:
| The fact that people were doing this kind of malarkey in Emacs
| Lisp even before I started using Emacs over 25y ago just goes to
| show what a powerful, flexible, and general-purpose language
| Emacs Lisp is -- and it's not even my favorite Lisp by a long
| shot!
| BaculumMeumEst wrote:
| Emacs Lisp is nobody's favorite lisp, yet it is the most widely
| used lisp by a wide margin.
|
| Emacs proves that having a free and open source cross platform
| GUI editor where you can introspect and modify the editor's
| state, and where a visual step debugger and lots of
| documentation are available, far outweigh the niceties that
| other lisps provide.
| TerrifiedMouse wrote:
| > outweigh the niceties that other lisps provide.
|
| But don't people only use Emacs Lisp to program Emacs?
| tadfisher wrote:
| Why would you need to program anything else?
| unhammer wrote:
| Well, being an Operating System, there have been many
| things programmed "in Emacs":
|
| * email, slack and reddit clients * web wowser * tetris *
| Amazon's customer service handling
| https://tess.oconnor.cx/2006/03/quality-without-a-name (not
| sure what that says about Emacs Lisp. Or Amazon.) * PIM /
| OCD management software * video editing
| https://www.nongnu.org/gneve/ * mind control
| https://github.com/jonnay/mindwave-emacs * Thermonuclear
| word processor * vim and vi emulators, if you ever need to
| use it for coding * Internet of Toys
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29207607 * Air traffic
| control system
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33524683
| BaculumMeumEst wrote:
| yes, and the real-world impact of what they make is greater
| than what is produced with any other lisp
| owl57 wrote:
| I suspect there's an obscure system in Common Lisp or
| even one of its ancestors running something absolutely
| critical to the world as we know it.
| cmrdporcupine wrote:
| Yes, the backend for Google Flights, Orbitz, Kayak etc.
| That seems rather critical.
|
| While it's not clear to me how much of that backend is
| still in Common Lisp, when Google bought ITA Software it
| was primarily a Lisp shop and I understand that it
| largely stayed that way for at least a long time.
| owl57 wrote:
| > it's not clear to me how much of that backend is still
| in Common Lisp
|
| Yes, that's why "suspect" and "obscure": I thought that
| well-known system is already rewritten in Google's usual
| languages. Turns out it isn't publicly known (?), but
| plausible: Google isn't afraid to rewrite their software
| whenever they find legacy hard to maintain, I even heard
| of a project that got rewritten 5 times in ~10 years.
| bitwize wrote:
| At the time of the ITA acquisition, Google had a strict
| four-language policy: C++, Java, JavaScript, or Python.
| Nothing else was allowed.
|
| The ITA acquisition made them rethink that a little bit,
| as they noticed that all the smart people working on QPX,
| the kind of people Google wanted to keep more of around,
| _really_ loved Lisp and had built something great in it.
| And then Go came on the scene and Dart and... well, so
| much for the four-language rule.
|
| QPX defied bitwize's Corollary to Greenspun's Tenth Rule:
| "Any sufficiently complicated Common Lisp or Scheme
| program will eventually be rewritten in C++, Java, or
| Python." (These days I would add JavaScript, TypeScript,
| and Rust.) It was still being maintained in Lisp as of
| the late 2010s and probably still is today. If Google
| ordered a Big Rewrite of QPX in another more marketable
| programming language, they risk losing the good people
| who worked on it to begin with. So... maybe next decade.
| natrys wrote:
| People use Emacs for anything and everything, so by
| extension they write elisp for all kinds of things too. Any
| why not tbh? It's a general purpose language that's
| arguably no worse than python or ruby (subjectively more
| fun for me instead). Yes in specific cases like data
| science or web backend/frontend you should prefer something
| else, but everyday text processing, scripting is elisp's
| forte, so given that it's like a cross platform VM that's
| always there it makes a lot of sense to use it as general
| purpose tech to marry logic with ergonomic frontend inside
| Emacs.
| rileyphone wrote:
| Emacs is oftened remarked to be a whole operating system to
| itself, fulfilling Dan Ingalls' definition[0]: "An operating
| system is a collection of things that don't fit into a
| language. There shouldn't be one."
|
| 0. https://www.cs.virginia.edu/~evans/cs655/readings/smalltal
| k....
| lispm wrote:
| One metric: lines of code.
|
| The GNU Emacs I have for my Mac comes with a Lisp directory
| of 1.5 million non-empty lines of el code.
|
| I would think that there are several other Lisp applications
| which easily have ten times as much Lisp code.
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