[HN Gopher] Eoops: An object-oriented programming system for Ema...
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       Eoops: An object-oriented programming system for Emacs-Lisp (1992)
        
       Author : lr0
       Score  : 63 points
       Date   : 2023-11-18 08:25 UTC (14 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (dl.acm.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (dl.acm.org)
        
       | erk__ wrote:
       | I guess the implementation of EIEIO came later than this
       | 
       | https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/eieio/
        
         | smitty1e wrote:
         | Right. Title should show 1992.
        
         | d0mine wrote:
         | Note: support for old EIEIO functions is not autoloaded any
         | more in Emacs 29.1
         | https://www.masteringemacs.org/article/whats-new-in-emacs-29...
        
       | agumonkey wrote:
       | as /u/arthurno1 nicely noted, there's code online, see:
       | https://old.reddit.com/r/emacs/comments/17xuf0z/eoops_an_obj...
        
       | KaiserPro wrote:
       | Eoop lad, lets get t'keyboard and do t'programming
       | 
       | (yes, thats a bad yorkshire accent)
        
         | spindle wrote:
         | KEYBOARD? Tha were lucky
        
           | bloopernova wrote:
           | LUCK?! Tha were lucky!
        
         | benj111 wrote:
         | As a Yorkshire man, I can confirm that we do speak like that.
         | 
         | And I also approve of this system.
         | 
         | I may use it while driving around in my VW e up. Well obviously
         | my whippet would be using it, it isn't safe to program and
         | drive.
        
           | mst wrote:
           | As a Lancashire lad, I can confirm that, sadly, they do
           | indeed.
           | 
           | (for those unfamiliar with this side of the pond, Lancashire
           | and Yorkshire are mortal enemies right up until a Southerner
           | tries it on at which point Northern Solidarity kicks in and
           | we take them out first -then- go back to bickering ;)
        
             | benj111 wrote:
             | Tell me about it, my girlfriend's Spanish and lives in
             | Lancashire.
             | 
             | I'm the foreigner when I go over there. (Don't worry I have
             | my passport, and jabs are up to date).
        
               | KaiserPro wrote:
               | Lancashire!? let me tell thee lad.
               | 
               | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqAbMbRQ3jE
               | 
               | This man ers frum bolton, and this is hus pro-ject.
        
               | mst wrote:
               | Oh gods bowt'n.
               | 
               | Last time I was there I overheard two women walking down
               | the street having an argument because one of them thought
               | that 11am was too early for crack.
               | 
               | Then I went into a computer game shop and a small child
               | in a pram stabbed me in the leg.
               | 
               | Miserable bastard place, I'd rather have to go back to
               | skem* _.
               | 
               | *_ skelmersdale, for the multisyllabic ... which most of
               | the residents aren't
        
               | KaiserPro wrote:
               | skemmy by name, skemmy by nature. A new town too far,
               | poor fucking place.
        
       | throwaway81523 wrote:
       | I did something like that 20+ years ago, a subset of Flavors with
       | some graphics classes, running inside of Emacs. My school deleted
       | my account with all the code in it at the end of a semester.
       | Gack.
        
         | agumonkey wrote:
         | Oh what a shame. Did you write other languages / dialects since
         | ?
        
           | throwaway81523 wrote:
           | Not sure what you mean about other languages. At the time (as
           | a snotty undergrad) I thought what I was doing was exciting
           | and important, but I can't say for sure that it would have
           | turned into anything interesting. The OO stuff worked ok but
           | the amount of user functionality that I got working wasn't
           | that great.
        
       | jbotz wrote:
       | 1992
        
       | bitwize wrote:
       | The fact that people were doing this kind of malarkey in Emacs
       | Lisp even before I started using Emacs over 25y ago just goes to
       | show what a powerful, flexible, and general-purpose language
       | Emacs Lisp is -- and it's not even my favorite Lisp by a long
       | shot!
        
         | BaculumMeumEst wrote:
         | Emacs Lisp is nobody's favorite lisp, yet it is the most widely
         | used lisp by a wide margin.
         | 
         | Emacs proves that having a free and open source cross platform
         | GUI editor where you can introspect and modify the editor's
         | state, and where a visual step debugger and lots of
         | documentation are available, far outweigh the niceties that
         | other lisps provide.
        
           | TerrifiedMouse wrote:
           | > outweigh the niceties that other lisps provide.
           | 
           | But don't people only use Emacs Lisp to program Emacs?
        
             | tadfisher wrote:
             | Why would you need to program anything else?
        
             | unhammer wrote:
             | Well, being an Operating System, there have been many
             | things programmed "in Emacs":
             | 
             | * email, slack and reddit clients * web wowser * tetris *
             | Amazon's customer service handling
             | https://tess.oconnor.cx/2006/03/quality-without-a-name (not
             | sure what that says about Emacs Lisp. Or Amazon.) * PIM /
             | OCD management software * video editing
             | https://www.nongnu.org/gneve/ * mind control
             | https://github.com/jonnay/mindwave-emacs * Thermonuclear
             | word processor * vim and vi emulators, if you ever need to
             | use it for coding * Internet of Toys
             | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29207607 * Air traffic
             | control system
             | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33524683
        
             | BaculumMeumEst wrote:
             | yes, and the real-world impact of what they make is greater
             | than what is produced with any other lisp
        
               | owl57 wrote:
               | I suspect there's an obscure system in Common Lisp or
               | even one of its ancestors running something absolutely
               | critical to the world as we know it.
        
               | cmrdporcupine wrote:
               | Yes, the backend for Google Flights, Orbitz, Kayak etc.
               | That seems rather critical.
               | 
               | While it's not clear to me how much of that backend is
               | still in Common Lisp, when Google bought ITA Software it
               | was primarily a Lisp shop and I understand that it
               | largely stayed that way for at least a long time.
        
               | owl57 wrote:
               | > it's not clear to me how much of that backend is still
               | in Common Lisp
               | 
               | Yes, that's why "suspect" and "obscure": I thought that
               | well-known system is already rewritten in Google's usual
               | languages. Turns out it isn't publicly known (?), but
               | plausible: Google isn't afraid to rewrite their software
               | whenever they find legacy hard to maintain, I even heard
               | of a project that got rewritten 5 times in ~10 years.
        
               | bitwize wrote:
               | At the time of the ITA acquisition, Google had a strict
               | four-language policy: C++, Java, JavaScript, or Python.
               | Nothing else was allowed.
               | 
               | The ITA acquisition made them rethink that a little bit,
               | as they noticed that all the smart people working on QPX,
               | the kind of people Google wanted to keep more of around,
               | _really_ loved Lisp and had built something great in it.
               | And then Go came on the scene and Dart and... well, so
               | much for the four-language rule.
               | 
               | QPX defied bitwize's Corollary to Greenspun's Tenth Rule:
               | "Any sufficiently complicated Common Lisp or Scheme
               | program will eventually be rewritten in C++, Java, or
               | Python." (These days I would add JavaScript, TypeScript,
               | and Rust.) It was still being maintained in Lisp as of
               | the late 2010s and probably still is today. If Google
               | ordered a Big Rewrite of QPX in another more marketable
               | programming language, they risk losing the good people
               | who worked on it to begin with. So... maybe next decade.
        
             | natrys wrote:
             | People use Emacs for anything and everything, so by
             | extension they write elisp for all kinds of things too. Any
             | why not tbh? It's a general purpose language that's
             | arguably no worse than python or ruby (subjectively more
             | fun for me instead). Yes in specific cases like data
             | science or web backend/frontend you should prefer something
             | else, but everyday text processing, scripting is elisp's
             | forte, so given that it's like a cross platform VM that's
             | always there it makes a lot of sense to use it as general
             | purpose tech to marry logic with ergonomic frontend inside
             | Emacs.
        
           | rileyphone wrote:
           | Emacs is oftened remarked to be a whole operating system to
           | itself, fulfilling Dan Ingalls' definition[0]: "An operating
           | system is a collection of things that don't fit into a
           | language. There shouldn't be one."
           | 
           | 0. https://www.cs.virginia.edu/~evans/cs655/readings/smalltal
           | k....
        
           | lispm wrote:
           | One metric: lines of code.
           | 
           | The GNU Emacs I have for my Mac comes with a Lisp directory
           | of 1.5 million non-empty lines of el code.
           | 
           | I would think that there are several other Lisp applications
           | which easily have ten times as much Lisp code.
        
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