[HN Gopher] Paris to hold referendum on higher parking fees for ...
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       Paris to hold referendum on higher parking fees for heavy SUVs
        
       Author : geox
       Score  : 68 points
       Date   : 2023-11-17 17:50 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.brusselstimes.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.brusselstimes.com)
        
       | rowyourboat wrote:
       | Shouldn't parking fees be dependent on area and not weight?
        
         | n4r9 wrote:
         | This is one way to discourage pollution in the city.
        
           | lowkeyoptimist wrote:
           | And discourage EVs since they are heavier than ICVs.
        
             | footy wrote:
             | And thus more dangerous when they hit pedestrians in a
             | city.
        
         | creer wrote:
         | It's not about safety or parking. Parking spaces are mostly a
         | fixed size - you fit or not - and where they are not it's
         | vehicle length that should matter. It's a cute strategy by an
         | insanely opinionated and activist mayor (to use a majority
         | against an easy-pickings minority). The use of referendums is
         | an interesting twist in her track record.
        
           | Swenrekcah wrote:
           | It is about safety. Larger cars on the streets are more
           | dangerous for the people living in the city.
           | 
           | Cars have been getting ridiculously large over the past
           | decades because the only force acting upon carmakers is the
           | desire of the car buyer.
           | 
           | If I'm buying a car, I obviously want the largest car I can
           | afford and semi-reasonably fit where I'm going to be. This
           | has many benefits for me, but a lot of negative externalites
           | for everyone around me.
           | 
           | That is why policies need to discourage larger cars in many
           | ways, to keep the average size in check, so to speak.
        
             | technothrasher wrote:
             | > If I'm buying a car, I obviously want the largest car I
             | can afford
             | 
             | Is that obvious? I guess I'm weird, as I always want the
             | smallest car I can get that gives me the features I want.
             | I'm constantly annoyed that I end up in larger cars than I
             | ideally want because that's basically the choice I'm given.
        
               | shakow wrote:
               | > Is that obvious?
               | 
               | The best-selling cars in the US are (and from afar) the
               | F150 and the Dodge RAM, so empirically it seems correct.
        
               | salamandersss wrote:
               | I mean the US effectively outlawed an arguably most
               | versatile of all vehicles for vast spaces of US, the
               | compact truck, which fits somewhere in the middle of
               | vehicle sizes. I suspect most of those people had to move
               | to another class, perhaps to these larger trucks.
        
             | salamandersss wrote:
             | >decades because the only force acting upon carmakers is
             | the desire of the car buyer.
             | 
             | Trucks, and perhaps some cars also got bigger also because
             | of fuel efficiency regulations (CAFE) that require a larger
             | footprint if gas mileage is worse. They had to make for
             | instance the Tacoma much larger to match a barely changed
             | engine. And foreign small import trucks were stifled with
             | the chicken tax, pushing consumers towards Americas
             | McGigantic brands.
        
         | fxtentacle wrote:
         | Road wear scales with weight^2 so if you want to refinance road
         | maintenance off the parking fees, this seems reasonable.
        
           | SoftTalker wrote:
           | It's worse than that, more roughly weight^4
           | 
           | https://pavementinteractive.org/reference-
           | desk/design/design...
        
           | redwall_hp wrote:
           | Fourth power of axle weight, apparently. So (weight/2)^4 for
           | a car or SUV.
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_power_law
           | 
           | Also, squishy humans really prefer to not be hit by heavier
           | objects travelling at similar speeds.
        
             | salamandersss wrote:
             | Privatizing all roads would ironically probably be the
             | fastest way to cut down on oversized vehicles. Nobody wants
             | to pay a quadratic weighted toll on the GVWR of a bunch of
             | extra SUV, but when they have to pay it all in taxes non-
             | quadratically anyway it's a fuck it go big moment.
        
               | janosdebugs wrote:
               | Let's see... If we privatize roads and every owner (pinky
               | promise) only makes everyone pay basod on vehicle
               | weight... That almost sounds like a tax based on car
               | weight.
        
               | salamandersss wrote:
               | The only reason why an SUV is economical for me is I'm
               | pillaging sedan and small car owners by making them pay
               | my share.
        
             | MandieD wrote:
             | All other things being equal, taller front bumpers and
             | hoods make for worse pedestrian outcomes, as well.
        
               | 6c696e7578 wrote:
               | What irks me most is that most children are invisible in
               | the blind spots around SUVs, which typically are seen
               | around school drop off/pickup.
        
           | cbg0 wrote:
           | This is what road/vehicle taxes are for.
        
         | tmnvix wrote:
         | Some combination of both would be best in my opinion. Weight
         | due to wear on roads and size due to the safety implications
         | (some personal vehicles are now almost 2m tall and impossible
         | to see over for pedestrians and cyclists - creating a much more
         | dangerous environment).
        
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       (page generated 2023-11-17 23:02 UTC)