[HN Gopher] Carvana Stock, CarMax Sink as Amazon Enters Online C...
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       Carvana Stock, CarMax Sink as Amazon Enters Online Car Sales
        
       Author : my12parsecs
       Score  : 31 points
       Date   : 2023-11-17 12:06 UTC (10 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.investors.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.investors.com)
        
       | jqpabc123 wrote:
       | In my experience, trying to buy a car online actually _increases_
       | the cost and time and frustration.
       | 
       | So does buying a car outright. They will actually pay you
       | (additional rebates) to finance a new car in a lot of cases.
       | 
       | There is so much counter intuitative gamesmanship going on in
       | this industry, I doubt Amazon or anyone else can really fix it.
       | 
       | Two of their favorite tricks are "dealer added equipment" and
       | "documentation fees". If you pay either of these, you are getting
       | screwed. They are few and far between but it is possible to find
       | dealerships that don't play these games.
       | 
       | For example, "Nitro tires" for $400 --- is just air. Air is more
       | than 70 percent nitrogen. They are actually charging you a good
       | chunk of money to put air in the tires.
       | 
       | Other examples include "Diamond plating" for $400 --- it's just
       | wax. Scotchgard on the seats for $400 --- is just a spray can
       | that may or may not have been applied (how do you really know?).
       | 
       | I've seen vehicles on the lot with $2-3000 of this BS added to
       | price of the vehicle. Of course, these last minute additions
       | often aren't included in the price you find online.
        
         | wwweston wrote:
         | > and "documentation fees".
         | 
         | My favorite part of this one on my recent used auto purchase is
         | how clear it is _the dealer didn 't even do their job here_.
         | The vehicle had been traded in to the dealer. The title was
         | made out to "The Estate of <Former Owner>", and person who
         | signed the car over to them very clearly wasn't the name on the
         | title (which you might expect, as estate indicates a death) and
         | had not even so much as a common last name. The dealer sure
         | seemed to know this was an issue at _some_ point because
         | someone had written  "POA" next to the signature... but there
         | was no power of attorney documentation that came with the title
         | and other paperwork, and when I contacted the dealer about it
         | they clearly had none of this paperwork in spite of the trade-
         | in having been completed 6 weeks earlier. In fact, it took 4
         | emails just to get the paperwork guy to understand the actual
         | problem (he thought I was complaining they hadn't signed the
         | title over to me), and once we reached that point, it took them
         | a few days to provide a POA document _for an entirely different
         | person_ than the person who signed the title over to them --
         | they literally did not understand the assignment.
         | 
         | It's almost two months from when I purchased the vehicle, and
         | still trying to get documentation puzzle pieces put together,
         | and it's just in the last week I got them to send me _the temp
         | tag for the car_ (they forgot to put it on before I had the
         | vehicle delivered, and didn 't notice when I'd mentioned the
         | problem earlier).
         | 
         | This isn't some random guy with a half-developed lot where
         | inventory is mostly consignment either -- this is a Toyota
         | dealership (Suburban Toyota of Troy) that's part of a franchise
         | of dozens of dealerships across several states (Suburban
         | Collection / Lithia Motors). It's almost funny now that I
         | thought that indicated an extra level of professionalism when
         | this situation has turned out to have a lot in common with
         | title jumping.
         | 
         | And when I told dealership I expected them to refund the doc
         | fee (among other remedies), the response I got was a reality
         | denying "we have provided everything you need to register the
         | vehicle in a timely manner," which isn't true _now_ let alone
         | two weeks ago when they said it.
         | 
         | In theory I'd be willing to pay _some_ documentation fee for
         | the privilege of knowing that everything is clear and when I
         | walk into state offices to register my car, it 'll happen. But
         | at this point, it's clear that's a theory and incentives are
         | against dealerships actually caring and would remain that way
         | without escrow.
         | 
         | I suppose there's always state regulators and small claims
         | court.
        
           | jqpabc123 wrote:
           | About the only advice I can offer --- walk away from any used
           | car deal that doesn't have a clear title. And insist on
           | seeing the title before you sign anything.
           | 
           | There is a lot of room for error with used cars. "Abandonment
           | title", "Salvage title", "Estate title", etc. are all things
           | I routinely avoid like the plague. It's just not worth the
           | trouble.
        
           | toomuchtodo wrote:
           | I would recommend filing a complaint with the state
           | regulatory agency responsible for issuing dealership business
           | licenses ("Michigan Department of State" in your situation).
        
         | xrd wrote:
         | Only $3k? I took the kids back home after an exhausting three
         | hour session. In that 45 minutes the dealership managed to
         | convince my wife to agree to $9k on top of the base price of
         | $45k.
        
           | jqpabc123 wrote:
           | I try to avoid a 3 hour session with a dealership con artist.
           | Nothing good usually comes from it --- they are just trying
           | to wear you down.
           | 
           | I make a fair, _all inclusive_ offer (minus government fees
           | which they have no control over). My standard is $1000 below
           | MSRP. If they balk at that, I just walk away. They 'll want
           | your phone number so they can harass you later. I keep a
           | spare phone with a minimal $3 a month plan (Ultra Mobile)
           | just for these situations.
           | 
           | As I said above, they are few and far between but there are
           | dealerships out there that will deal without these BS games.
           | You may have to go out of state to find one.
           | 
           | I went to Clermont, FL. It is the auto mall of the southeast.
           | Within a 5 mile stretch of Hwy 50 is every car dealership you
           | have ever heard of, all loaded with inventory. The BS is
           | minimized by the simple fact that you can easily and
           | literally just walk to the competition next door.
        
             | grogenaut wrote:
             | My wife and daughter fell asleep as I explained time value
             | tradeoffs of money to the add-ons guy who was trying to
             | sell me everything. Rock chip cover, googled 5 local offers
             | for 1/4 the price. Prepaid service contract, guy tried to
             | tell me it would void my warranty if I did the oil myself.
             | "Sir what you just said is illegal". He was flustered for
             | the undercoat sales to stop salt rust "we live in Seattle
             | which doesn't use salt". Took me about 30 minutes and I had
             | a ton of fun.
        
             | fatnoah wrote:
             | > The BS is minimized by the simple fact that you can
             | easily and literally just walk to the competition next
             | door.
             | 
             | I've only purchased two new cars in my life, but both times
             | I managed to minimize the time involved by doing the test
             | drives and chatting on one day, but showing up shortly
             | before the dealership closed on a weeknight to actually do
             | the deal. Yes, the did try to sell me on the all the
             | extras, but they didn't push things either since it seemed
             | like 3 people had to stick around for the whole process
             | (dealer, business paper person, and manager).
        
           | userinanother wrote:
           | Some states let you reverse the transaction in the first 24
           | hrs.
        
       | kwertyoowiyop wrote:
       | Can't wait to buy a new JYFRIXRIFMEER sedan!
        
         | richbell wrote:
         | That was my first thought as well. :)
         | 
         | Context, for anyone who hasn't used Amazon in recent years.
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32195987
        
         | mikestew wrote:
         | It's the commingled inventory I'm looking forward to. Looks a
         | lot like a Hyundai, but there's something just a little off
         | about this car...
        
       | ctvo wrote:
       | This happens every time Amazon announces something and is a great
       | opportunity to buy on the cheap as Amazon fails a year later.
       | 
       | See online pharmacies, health care, real estate (!), loans.
        
         | sdfghswe wrote:
         | Whole foods
        
       | gamblor956 wrote:
       | It's only a matter of time before Amazon's car sales section is
       | filled with vehicles from BSTCARZ or GREENCARR or their Alibaba
       | dropshipping ilk.
        
         | bdcravens wrote:
         | Looking forward to getting the $2000 EV truck delivered in 2
         | days
         | 
         | https://electrek.co/2023/11/14/two-years-after-buying-a-2000...
        
       | cramjabsyn wrote:
       | Good riddance. Carvana was a nightmare of vehicle issues, months
       | late trade-in payoff and revolving door customer support. I truly
       | hope they go out of business.
        
       | treis wrote:
       | Carvana's stock did not sink. It's up 10% over the last 5 days.
        
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       (page generated 2023-11-17 23:02 UTC)