[HN Gopher] Printed robots with bones, ligaments, and tendons
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       Printed robots with bones, ligaments, and tendons
        
       Author : cainxinth
       Score  : 176 points
       Date   : 2023-11-16 12:56 UTC (10 hours ago)
        
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       | WesSouza wrote:
       | Cue Westworld opening theme.
        
         | rob74 wrote:
         | Right, didn't know what those hands reminded me of
         | (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgvXU5R-xWs&t=33s), thanks for
         | the hint!
        
         | nwoli wrote:
         | Westworld will be a literal inspiration to entrepreneurs of the
         | future (building theme parks of the same type)
        
           | jtr1 wrote:
           | https://nitter.net/AlexBlechman/status/1457842724128833538?l.
           | ..
        
           | rob74 wrote:
           | "at long last, we have created the Torment Nexus" (EDIT:
           | didn't notice that the link posted by jtr1 points to the
           | original "Torment Nexus" tweet)
        
           | gattr wrote:
           | I agree. We'll have life-like androids for all kinds of
           | entertainment (not AGI-controlled, just some fancy future-
           | generation LLM) sooner than direct neural interfaces for
           | full-immersion VR or stuff like that.
        
         | moffkalast wrote:
         | Doesn't look like anything to me.
        
       | tpetr wrote:
       | These violent delights have violent ends
        
         | lucubratory wrote:
         | Hook it up to GPTs based on GPT-7, build the theme park...
         | frankly, yeah, Westworld seems way, way more achievable in the
         | short term than it seemed when I watched it way back when.
         | 
         | That said, while 3D printing like this may advance and be
         | useful, I think more normal humanoid robots that are covered in
         | a human layer is much more likely.
        
           | skummetmaelk wrote:
           | > I think more normal humanoid robots that are covered in a
           | human layer is much more likely.
           | 
           | In Westworld the first versions of the hosts were exactly
           | that, and progressed to the more... fleshy... kind later on.
        
         | tycho-newman wrote:
         | Thou shalt not make a machine in the likeness of a human hand.
        
         | MeteorMarc wrote:
         | Can the hand operate a 3D-printed gun?
        
         | ilaksh wrote:
         | https://i.imgur.io/NOjtQXr_d.webp?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&f...
         | 
         | I used to own a unique sculpture (created by an artist from
         | Tijuana) that embodied that phrase.
        
           | tpetr wrote:
           | Cool!
        
       | rob74 wrote:
       | Bones, ligaments and tendons... now they just need synthetic
       | muscles! (I know there is research on that, but not sure if the
       | current "state of the art" has performance comparable to "meat"
       | muscles)
        
         | photochemsyn wrote:
         | I think the technology to 3D print at the cellular-protein
         | scale (microns to nanometers) is a ways off still. For anything
         | like muscle, you'd need micromachines (comparable to actin-
         | myosin) linking fibers (in muscle they're about 50um in
         | diameter and a few centimeters long) that would work in
         | coordination using some kind of energy (in animals the fuel is
         | ATP) source.
        
       | Euphorbium wrote:
       | I remember there was analogous project, that used inflatable
       | muscles. It was at least 10 years ago, and at the time seemed
       | like something from science fiction, but it was a real thing.
        
       | ssfrr wrote:
       | The status quo they describe is a printing process where material
       | is deposited and then UV cured, then there's some kind of
       | scraping process. That seems like a hybrid of FDM and
       | lithographic printing from a vat of goo a la FormLabs.
       | 
       | Is that a common process?
        
         | syntaxing wrote:
         | Industrial equipment uses this technique often for different
         | purposes like glueing. Might seem obvious but the scraping is
         | an artifact from the UV curing, it happens for SLA printers
         | too. There's a reason why the vat is a FEP film since it has
         | lubricating properties like PTFE so each layer peels off
         | easily. Also fun fact, that's what carbon3D printers are so
         | damn fast. They have a semi permeable film that lets oxygen
         | through which creates a thin barrier of "cured yet viscous"
         | resin between the film and part so they don't have to wait to
         | peel or scrape anything.
        
       | PedroBatista wrote:
       | I think this is one of the areas the whole "AI revolution" is
       | lacking.
       | 
       | "Cognition", vision and generally the sensor parts are pretty
       | advanced by now, ex: all the latest GPTs and vision Apis. But the
       | actuator parts of the equation are pretty much the same as years
       | ago.
       | 
       | I think a large part of this is the old industry saying:
       | "Software is cheap/easy, Hardware is expensive/hard", These days
       | "robots" pretty much means a robot arm that is either a clunky
       | pile of parts with an Arduino for the hobbyist market or a multi-
       | thousand dollar industrial arm to move card boxes.
       | 
       | I also don't know if human movement is a well understood problem
       | yet, everything I've seen until now looks pretty much a better
       | version of movement from a 's sci-fi robot movie ( I'm not
       | discounting the difficulty of this, just pointing out )
       | 
       | Maybe this is the calm before the storm, now it's all "chat bots"
       | and it's mostly inside our computers, when humanoid robots start
       | to roam the streets and affecting the physical World it will be
       | another ball game.
        
         | numpad0 wrote:
         | I'm not sure the angels necessarily need physical robotic
         | bodies, or just have to have consequences of their direct
         | actions fed back, to get grounded. They can search the Web
         | already, and kind of able to close a long loop when additional
         | training is done upon them using the data contaminated with
         | searches they make.
        
         | civilitty wrote:
         | The sensors are not advanced at all. Things like pressure and
         | texture sensing along with positional feedback are still
         | extremely primitive compared to what human hands are capable
         | of.
         | 
         | This might be a little progress towards miniaturizing muscles
         | but we've still got a long way to go on the whole package.
        
       | ilaksh wrote:
       | I wonder if there could be a way to use this technique to 3d
       | print something like HASEL actuators for artificial muscles to go
       | along with the tendons and bones.
        
         | cmanion wrote:
         | I have been able to partially print them[0]. The electrodes we
         | used could have been inkjet printed* and there is some
         | potential of printing the dielectric fluid too. In the process
         | I developed, the HASELs had to be filled with dielectric fluid
         | during postprocessing, but it has been shown that it is
         | possible to print closed volumes of fluid with inkjet 3d
         | printers[1]. Although there is some risk the dielectric fluid
         | could interfere with the curing of the polymer.
         | 
         | *We also were able to develop a technique for printing
         | electrodes without modifying the printer, but this hasn't been
         | published yet
         | 
         | [0]https://www.researchgate.net/publication/343949671_Modeling_
         | ...
         | 
         | [1]https://www.csail.mit.edu/news/first-ever-3-d-printed-
         | robots...
        
           | ilaksh wrote:
           | Congratulations! If one were to try to commercialize this
           | (assuming further development), do you think the Artimus
           | Robotics patents would be a problem?
        
       | btbuildem wrote:
       | Reminds me of the Leeloo creation scene in 5th Element
        
       | numpad0 wrote:
       | Oh, so this isn't about optimizing torque/force distribution for
       | axes? I always thought it'll be neat if I could move an arm
       | parallel or orthogonal to an axis, simply by setting such
       | predetermined set of servos to exact same values, thanks to such
       | clever cross-coupling of joints. A bit like CoreXY, but requiring
       | actual maths to set up, but computationally cheap to use.
       | 
       | When us humans animate, don't we tend to reveal such type of
       | optimization that we can just add power to limbs to translate
       | object, rather precisely, along cardinal directions as well as
       | parallel directions, relative to our mental origin point? This is
       | often explained as human brains being smart and doing fast IK
       | calculations, but I doubt it.
       | 
       | But I ended out creeping out someone while trying to show how _I_
       | can easily mouse-drag my wrist joint parallel to screen
       | coordinates, so in cases above didn 't apply to most, just
       | disregard :p
        
       | gene-h wrote:
       | It is a shame that inkjet UV cure 3D printers haven't caught on
       | with hobbyists. Inkjet 3D printers are awesome, the resolution is
       | hard to beat, you can make parts with multiple materials as was
       | shown in the article. Some can even print in color. But currently
       | these machines tend to be very expensive, as in $250,000 and up.
       | Worse, allegedly if you want to make full use of the printer's
       | capability you have to sign over your IP to the company that made
       | the printer.
       | 
       | Some people at MIT figured out how to build one cheaply and IIRC
       | they even released plans for it online.[0]
       | 
       | You can also buy phone case printers on AliExpress which use the
       | same inkjet UV cure process for about $1500[1]. They allegedly
       | have some limited capability to do 3D too.
       | 
       | So it is possible to build 3d printers like this cheap enough
       | that hobbyists could afford them. I suspect the reason they
       | haven't caught on is due to patents, one may not even be able to
       | sell a kit to make such printers
       | 
       | [0]https://cdfg.mit.edu/publications/multifab-machine-vision-
       | as... [1]https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2261799819029324.html
        
         | Kuinox wrote:
         | I tried to see what it take to build one. My first issue is
         | that there is very little information about how the tech work.
         | This article inkjet tech isn't the same one than the powder +
         | inkjet:
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powder_bed_and_inkjet_head_3D_...
         | 
         | > the resolution is hard to beat
         | 
         | Are you sure it's on the same level than the regular hobbyist
         | resin printers ? Thoses have 35 um to 50 um resolution.
        
           | gene-h wrote:
           | I am not referring to powder bed inkjet 3d printing, I am
           | referring to making parts by inkjetting UV curable polymer.
           | The 3D printer mentioned in the article, the cheap 3d printer
           | previously made at MIT, and the phone case printer available
           | on AliExpress all use this process. >resolution The inkjets
           | used have similar DPI as those used in 2D printers, so
           | resolution can be as small as 13-16 micrometers[0]
           | [1]https://www.rnd-tech.com/3d-printers-product-
           | lines/polyjet/e...
           | 
           | [1]https://www.3dsystems.com/sites/default/files/2020-08/3d-s
           | ys...
        
             | iancmceachern wrote:
             | Objet printers use this tech, projet too
        
             | Kuinox wrote:
             | > am referring to making parts by inkjetting UV curable
             | polymer.
             | 
             | Yes, I said they were not the same, my point is there isn't
             | even a Wikipedia article about it. I don't see how
             | technologically it can reach better accuracy than current
             | resin printer that are based on lithography technics. It's
             | just a multi material resin printer but sounds way harder
             | to do for an hobbyist.
        
         | iancmceachern wrote:
         | They haven't caught on outside of R&D and industrial uses
         | because they're maintenance nightmares.
         | 
         | Think of an inkjet printer that prints honey, and the honey
         | hardens when exposed to light.
         | 
         | The maintenance, the bad chemicals your exposed to in the
         | printing, curing, cleaning processes, etc.
         | 
         | They're nightmares, you would not want it in your home. Same
         | reason I don't have a sla printer, not worth it.
         | 
         | The projet 3500 is the coolest printer in this space if you do
         | want one. It's cool be a use the support material is paraffin
         | wax, so to clean and cure the parts you just melt off the wax
         | in a low temp oven and clean the parts in an ultrasonic cleaner
         | with cooking oil in it.
        
         | iancmceachern wrote:
         | You can get a lower end objet or projet for like $30k, used
         | ones for far less
        
         | fortran77 wrote:
         | "UV Cure" printers are a big mess to deal with. As a hobbyist,
         | if I can do it with an "FDM" printer, I will!
        
       | Eumenes wrote:
       | what kind of composites will offer robots ballistic protection,
       | while not sacrificing mobility?
        
         | nick222226 wrote:
         | Non-newtonian fluids filled with particles of inconel and
         | layers of kevlar fiber?
        
       | oooyay wrote:
       | This reminds me of the real preemption to "West World". They had
       | discovered cognitive machines and had them for some time, but
       | printing "bodies" was the true break through that connected
       | everything together. Pun intended.
        
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       (page generated 2023-11-16 23:01 UTC)