[HN Gopher] David Attenborough is now narrating my life
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       David Attenborough is now narrating my life
        
       Author : andygcook
       Score  : 236 points
       Date   : 2023-11-15 19:19 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (twitter.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (twitter.com)
        
       | iris2004 wrote:
       | It's a neat demo. I don't know how I feed about cloning the voice
       | of a living person, even a 'public' figure like a presenter. I
       | wouldn't be surprised if it eventually becomes illegal, although
       | it'll likely be as difficult to enforce as normal casual
       | copyright infringement.
        
         | woleium wrote:
         | I expect the existing laws will be extended. I had a colleague
         | tell me about looking into how much Morgan freeman wanted for a
         | 15s commercial ($$$$$$). The alternative he used was a "sound
         | alike" voice actor, for which Morgan Freeman received royalties
         | to the tune of $$$$$.
        
           | pcthrowaway wrote:
           | Why would Morgan Freeman be entitled to royalties for a
           | commercial where the voice over sounded similar to his
           | voice... unless he actually sold the rights to represent him
           | with a vocal likeness in the commercial (AKA he didn't do the
           | voice over, but the commercial was able to claim the voice
           | over was by Morgan Freemen, or that it represented Morgan
           | Freeman's opinions... like when a book by a celebrity is
           | actually written by someone else)
        
             | frereubu wrote:
             | I don't get this either, and would be very interested in a
             | clear explanation.
        
             | galangalalgol wrote:
             | yeah at least in the US you are fine as long as you don't
             | claim the voice is a certain person.
        
             | 3np wrote:
             | Gathering, retaining, using individual voice recordings for
             | business purposes may be regulated, though. Already is in
             | places, even if enforcement and precedence is lacking.
             | 
             | So there'd be no legal way to produce or share the model
             | generating such a voice or its output.
        
             | kevinmchugh wrote:
             | You can't use a Tom Waits (or Morgan Freeman) sound-a-like
             | because you're profiting off their work and likeness.
             | Unless the celeb sells a licensed sound-a-like.
             | 
             | https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/when-tom-waits-sued-doritos/
        
               | chankstein38 wrote:
               | What if my voice sounded like Tom Waits or Morgan Freeman
               | and I did commercials? It doesn't and I don't I'm just
               | curious how this makes sense. Is it just if the voice is
               | advertised to sound like him?
        
               | stuckinhell wrote:
               | Yes you would owe them money. This why I'm against
               | artists trying to chokehold the AI.
        
               | pcthrowaway wrote:
               | I don't think with the current copyright system you would
               | owe another artist money when recording a commercial just
               | because your voice happens to sound like theirs. But with
               | AI perhaps it's "fair" (given the assumption that there's
               | any fairness to copyright in the first place) to expect a
               | creator to provide some kind of compensation to the
               | source material that their AI was trained on.
               | 
               | Case in point, this bot was clearly trained on David
               | Attenborough samples, perhaps it can't be used
               | commercially without purchasing some rights to the man's
               | likeness.
        
               | stuckinhell wrote:
               | Picasso is widely quoted as having said that "good
               | artists borrow, great artists steal."
               | https://lifehacker.com/an-artist-explains-what-great-
               | artists...
        
               | lbwtaylor wrote:
               | There is a significant difference between "stealing"
               | artistic ideas, and impersonating individual humans.
               | 
               | How folks can think it's reasonable to impersonate Morgan
               | Freeman and use his voice to sell, for example, crypto
               | crap. It's gross and should absolutely be illegal.
        
               | cjaybo wrote:
               | Well Picasso wasn't much of a legislator, and I don't
               | think his point was that all artistic theft is
               | justifiable to begin with.
        
               | mywacaday wrote:
               | What would happen if a voic was trained on Morgan
               | Freeman, Jack Nicholson, Robert De Niro, George Clooney
               | and tuned to not sound like any one individual but have
               | the characteristics we find appealing. Could that be used
               | for its own copyright claim?
        
               | tim333 wrote:
               | I guess you wouls have the chance to argue about it in
               | court, if someone came after you.
        
               | pavon wrote:
               | In that case though (and the Bette Milder precedent), the
               | sound-a-like was used with a song that the artist was
               | associated with, which implied that it was the actual
               | artist, or at least deliberately invoked their likeness
               | in mind of the viewer.
               | 
               | I'm skeptical that using a narrator that happened to
               | sound like David Attenborough or Morgan Freeman would be
               | enough by itself to qualify for right of publicity unless
               | it included obvious references to prior work, catch
               | phases, or the like.
        
               | notahacker wrote:
               | Difficult to find a Morgan Freeman sound-a-like if
               | they're not marketing themselves as a Morgan Freeman
               | sound-a-like. And if they are (and obtaining more
               | customers as a result), it's easier to pay Morgan Freeman
               | royalties than come up with persuasive arguments that
               | selling 'voiceovers that sound like Morgan Freeman' isn't
               | profiting from deliberately invoking his likeness...
        
               | amelius wrote:
               | > Difficult to find a Morgan Freeman sound-a-like if
               | they're not marketing themselves as a Morgan Freeman
               | sound-a-like.
               | 
               | How about this scenario: they publish a youtube video,
               | then someone says in the comments: hey you sound just
               | like morgan freeman, then the company looking for the
               | voice performance googles for morgan freeman, finds the
               | comment and contacts them.
        
               | bryanrasmussen wrote:
               | So then in court the google for Morgan Freeman and the
               | comment you sound like Morgan Freeman come out and then
               | you owe Morgan Freeman $$$$$$$$$ because he had to go to
               | court over it.
        
               | mym1990 wrote:
               | What happens if the sound alike is given away for free
               | and there is no profit or even revenue component?
        
               | ge96 wrote:
               | Huh, Salma Hayek was right
        
               | ASalazarMX wrote:
               | If your voice is the twin of a celebrity's, but you don't
               | benefit from the likeness (for example, not being paid
               | for voice acting where your identities could be
               | confused), you'd probably have a strong defense if the
               | celebrity tries to extort royalties from you.
               | 
               | The rest is shades of grey. For example, if you're an
               | incredible voice imitator and plan to do shows,
               | negotiations would be wise. Even Weird Al asked for
               | permission when he didn't had to, legally speaking.
        
               | aequitas wrote:
               | > Even Weird Al asked for permission when he didn't had
               | to, legally speaking.
               | 
               | But Weird Al does parodies, which is fair use. He's not
               | trying to pass off an album as being a genuine Michael
               | Jackson album or something.
        
               | morelisp wrote:
               | Why would Weird Al try to pass off his albums as being
               | from the guy who stole his songs?
        
             | vasco wrote:
             | Right of Publicity: https://higgslaw.com/celebrities-sue-
             | over-unauthorized-use-o...
        
               | airstrike wrote:
               | if my product doesn't imply or state that the voice is
               | Morgan Freeman's, I don't think they really have a case?
               | at least not based on common sense
        
               | justinpombrio wrote:
               | If the voice was chosen specifically to sound like Morgan
               | Freeman, for the purpose of making listeners think it's
               | Morgan Freeman when they hear it, it seems reasonable for
               | it to run afoul of Morgan Freeman's right to publicity.
        
               | airstrike wrote:
               | I owe nothing to Morgan Freeman just because I sound like
               | him, unless I'm intentionally misleading listeners by
               | advertising his name or implying as much
        
               | ewi_ wrote:
               | If they can reasonably argue that you're being hired
               | because you sound like Morgan Freeman and you wouldn't
               | get the job otherwise, then they likely have a case.
        
             | bradley13 wrote:
             | Tell that to Einstein's family. Put an older guy with a
             | German accent and wild white hair in a commercial, and they
             | want paid.
             | 
             | Honestly, it's offensive that they can "own" a general
             | appearance. But their lawyers manage to enforce it.
        
               | avar wrote:
               | An easy workaround for this is to dress your German
               | speaker in a Nazi uniform, now suddenly nobody wants to.
               | be associated with them, even if you keep the unkempt
               | white hair.
        
           | ciabattabread wrote:
           | > The alternative he used was a "sound alike" voice actor,
           | for which Morgan Freeman received royalties to the tune of
           | $$$$$.
           | 
           | Was it Josh Robert Thompson, who is officially authorized?
           | [1]
           | 
           | [1] https://filmschoolrejects.com/morgan-freeman-crab-in-
           | barb-an...
        
         | MrDresden wrote:
         | While I agree, I also did thoroughly enjoy a recent Youtube
         | channel that did Warhammer 40K lore in Attenborough's voice. It
         | recently got taken down for obvious reasons.
         | 
         | Makes you wonder if in a few years there will be licenses
         | available for using someone's voice for such endeavours.
        
           | kkzz99 wrote:
           | I have been creating audiobooks from ebooks for a while now.
           | I just grab an .epub and turn it into a pretty good audiobook
           | in minutes for completely free using local models.
        
             | Tagbert wrote:
             | What do you use for the voice and the text to speech
             | generator?
        
             | Dig1t wrote:
             | Yes please do share the models you are using
        
         | CamperBob2 wrote:
         | Shouldn't be illegal, but I could understand it if we see laws
         | that require explicit disclosure when voices of living people
         | are simulated. At first glance that seems like the right
         | compromise.
        
         | anon_cow1111 wrote:
         | The extremely obvious legal problem is, ALL simulated voices
         | sound like some real person somewhere, it's just a matter of
         | finding that person.
         | 
         | I don't see a solution to this, so I'll tend to believe the
         | cynic's viewpoint that the final written law will be in favor
         | of whoever has the most lawyers.
        
           | fragmede wrote:
           | Sure. The difference is some voices, like David Attenborough
           | or Samuel Jackson are instantly recognizable to a large
           | audience while someone who isn't famous' voice is not.
           | 
           | Where to put the bar is a specific issue, but the exemplars
           | in their category stand out as recognizable.
        
           | jstarfish wrote:
           | > I don't see a solution to this
           | 
           | It's actually simple. Take David Attenborough's _name_ out of
           | the picture.
           | 
           | "A generic British guy is now narrating my life" isn't as
           | funny as implicating a known celebrity, which is where the
           | legal issues would arise. A generic British guy isn't going
           | to sue you.
           | 
           | Hell, you might even be able to get away with "A generic
           | British guy who sounds like David Attenborough is now
           | narrating my life."
        
         | jojobas wrote:
         | If human vocal impersonation is legal (and they are damn
         | convincing at times) so should be machine.
        
       | tptacek wrote:
       | This is simultaneously impressive and pretty gross.
        
         | i_am_jl wrote:
         | Do we have a word for this yet? I feel like it's becoming
         | common enough that we'll soon need one.
        
           | devindotcom wrote:
           | generative impersonation, I suppose
        
             | AlecSchueler wrote:
             | But for something simultaneously impressive and gross?
        
               | rzzzt wrote:
               | grimpressive? improsse?
        
           | civilitty wrote:
           | Repugnificent.
        
           | pawelduda wrote:
           | Imgrossive
        
           | jl6 wrote:
           | CreePT
        
           | shmeeed wrote:
           | Uncanny vallAI
        
         | throwaway4aday wrote:
         | Why do you think it is gross? Also, what does gross mean in
         | this context? It's a very ambiguous term. Would it be less
         | gross if this was a meme video where someone does an impression
         | of Attenborough and just narrates what the person being filmed
         | is doing in a comical way, there are a million of those
         | probably.
        
           | LightBug1 wrote:
           | You sound like a robot, devoid of understanding the most
           | obvious human traits and feelings.
        
       | xwdv wrote:
       | It's exciting to imagine that we can soon enter the age where
       | people will be able to voice their opinions in their own voice
       | and choice of words, long after they are dead and gone from this
       | physical world. Perhaps the first version of some digital
       | afterlife.
        
         | isoprophlex wrote:
         | I too long to retain some corporeal presence as a box, filled
         | with an llm trained on my life's collected texts and
         | utterances. A featureless grey cube with only two buttons
         | marked "more snark" and "more grossness", to be dusted off and
         | interacted at every christmas by my great-grandchildren.
        
           | metabagel wrote:
           | And a robotic finger to pull.
        
           | thallium205 wrote:
           | This comment will be added to your LLM.
        
         | midasuni wrote:
         | And of course anyone can use your voice ti voice any opinion.
         | Want Ghandi saying his words are backed with nuclear weapons?
         | Want to portray Hitler as a nice loving chap? And that's before
         | you get onto current politicians -
         | https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/nov/10/faked-audio...
        
           | Dioxide2119 wrote:
           | Hm. Gives a bit of truth to the Amish claim that having
           | themselves be photographed steals a bit of their soul. Your
           | voice is (was) unique to you.
           | 
           | Recordings moved the needle to your voice (when saying new
           | phrases) is unique to you.
           | 
           | These voice cloning of the last few years means that your
           | voice (as long as it is never recorded and remixed) is unique
           | to you.
           | 
           | A far more difficult proposition.
        
             | giraffe_lady wrote:
             | I sincerely find this to fall into the proscriptions
             | against necromancy present in most ancient belief systems.
             | The dead should not be made to speak the words of the
             | living. And we should not create for ourselves any
             | illusions about the completeness or finality of death.
             | 
             | It's not so much that it's a moral transgression as that it
             | will undermine and corrupt our own understanding of what it
             | means to be a living person.
        
               | xwdv wrote:
               | Turns out, it doesn't mean much to be a living person.
               | _Ideas_ are what matter to society, not the individual
               | that spawns them. When you kill a revolutionaire, you are
               | only killing a man.
        
           | xwdv wrote:
           | This will be a fairly trivial problem to solve. Each spoken
           | word can be cryptographically signed on some kind of
           | distributed public ledger and unless the words originate from
           | a verified origin you cannot assume something you hear was
           | indeed spoken by the original source LLM.
           | 
           |  _Only_ verified sentences coming from your LLM clone can be
           | considered the actual you.
        
         | cryptoz wrote:
         | But like, you can't know what someone would have said in the
         | future if they aren't there to say it. No amount of LLM
         | improvements would be able to know the real internal thoughts
         | and memories of someone. You could guess, sure, but you don't
         | know with any certainty.
         | 
         | People change. Small things change people - seeing a car speed
         | by might alter your opinion on some variety of things, but no
         | LLM was there to capture that moment.
         | 
         | It will always be a guess. You can never know for sure what
         | someone who is deceased would think about something in the
         | future since they are simply not there.
        
         | theGnuMe wrote:
         | This is a startup - digital tombstones or a digital dia de los
         | muertos.
        
       | Dig1t wrote:
       | This is astounding. This is the kind of demo that we could only
       | dream of just five years ago, now some hacker dude on Twitter can
       | just throw this kind of thing together. Seriously cool.
        
       | itissid wrote:
       | Oh man what a time to be alive. The creativity is amazing. Bravo.
        
       | smlacy wrote:
       | https://nitter.net/charliebholtz/status/1724815159590293764
        
       | atleastoptimal wrote:
       | I tried making something like this but OpenAI restricts Vision
       | API calls to 100 per day rn
        
       | kadomony wrote:
       | Given the Attenborough Lore channel for Warhammer received a
       | cease and desist, you can bet that his legal team will be busy
       | suing the shit out of people like this.
        
         | hyggetrold wrote:
         | I was so bummed about that. It makes sense of course but those
         | videos were really fun.
        
           | DaiPlusPlus wrote:
           | Was it noncommercial and done in the spirit of satire
           | (surrealism?) - in which case surely they'd get a pass - but
           | I guess they just didn't want to go bankrupt trying to defend
           | themselves?
           | 
           | It's a shame then - when you compare it to the situation
           | between the _nerdcore gangsta-rapper_ alter-ego of Stephen
           | Hawking: MC Hawking; who was created without authorization by
           | Dr. Hawking, and sold real physical CDs for a profit (and I
           | own one!), but who ultimately received an endorsement from
           | the late physicist who took it all in good humour - and
           | arguably Stephen Hawking is a bigger public figure than David
           | Attenborough.
           | 
           | ...if it really does comes down to just the personal approval
           | by the subject themselves (and not their legal
           | /marketing/legal teams acting without them even being aware)
           | then I'm concerned what it means for artistic liberty vs
           | public figures.
        
             | kadomony wrote:
             | I don't believe it was intended to be satirical. The depth
             | of worldbuilding and lore in Warhammer affords an immense
             | opportunity for Games Workshop to actually do some kind of
             | series like what was created with Attenborough's likeness.
             | His voice is his main source of income for his estate
             | nowadays, so it makes sense he doesn't want it replicated,
             | especially without any permission being granted.
        
               | throwaway4aday wrote:
               | Too bad they'd never do that and would probably do a
               | worse job if they did. There should be carve outs for
               | fans to make things that bloated corporations will never
               | have the ingenuity to come up with or the balls to carry
               | out.
        
           | kadomony wrote:
           | Same. When I logged into YouTube and saw "Scholar's Lore", my
           | heart sunk and I immediately knew what had come to pass.
           | Attenborough is fiercely protective of his voice.
        
         | russellbeattie wrote:
         | That was such a great channel. The voice was paired with pitch
         | perfect writing as well. The script had exactly the sort of
         | flow that an Attenborough BBC program would have, plus it was
         | actually really informative.
         | 
         | He really should re-dub the entire series with a unique AI
         | generated voice and repost. They wouldn't be as good, but still
         | pretty close.
        
       | rcarmo wrote:
       | I want this, but with Werner Herzog. It would be the only way to
       | do justice to the existential angst that pervades some of my
       | meetings.
        
         | slothtrop wrote:
         | There's AI generated word-salad debate between Herzog and Zizek
         | https://infiniteconversation.com/
        
           | pacifika wrote:
           | Flagged by Safari for an invalid cert
        
             | justin_oaks wrote:
             | Should happen on any browser. Try
             | https://www.infiniteconversation.com/ instead.
        
         | willseth wrote:
         | Came here to say this. This is correct.
        
         | willcipriano wrote:
         | Mike Rowe would be good for doing work around the house.
        
       | SpaceManNabs wrote:
       | I think this is nasty to provide as a service to others because
       | the voice didn't consent. I don't agree with others when also
       | critiquing personal use. Personal use should be fair use as long
       | as you aren't stealing or mining a service to minimize some
       | personal cost.
       | 
       | So is this a text to speech model while mimicking somebody's
       | voice? That is pretty cool.
       | 
       | One thing I don't understand is how you get specific models for
       | someone's voice. Do you fine tune to that voice?
       | 
       | The issue of style transfer is not something I understand for
       | audio. Anyone have example papers to read? I am familiar with
       | MuLan, MusicLM, and MusicGen.
        
         | spyder wrote:
         | In the tweet he says he is using https://elevenlabs.io for the
         | voice, which is currently the best quality text-to-speech
         | service and allows for voice cloning too.
         | 
         | And Elevenlabs is saying this about cloning other people's
         | voices:
         | 
         |  _Can I clone anybody 's voice?
         | 
         | Yes, as long as you have their consent. For Professional Voice
         | Cloning, we have integrated robust security measures to make
         | sure you can only clone your own voice. Unless you share it,
         | your voice belongs and is available only to you._
         | 
         | But it looks like it's not enforced if the example in the tweet
         | is possible.
         | 
         | But even if it would be enforced by the company, open-source
         | models are getting close to them and they are harder to
         | control. The public or commercial use of the output from these
         | models can (and probably should) be limited by laws, but if the
         | users want to use it privately (for example to narrate
         | themselves) there is not much you can do to prevent it
         | especially with the progress in this tech it will become more
         | trivial to do it for anybody.
        
           | leobg wrote:
           | It actually is enforced. They have a verification system
           | where they show you random text on the screen and you have to
           | read that into the microphone. So I don't know how the tweet
           | author got around that.
        
       | hyperific wrote:
       | This is nuts. I want a version of this where Emma Thompson
       | narrates my life like Stranger than Fiction.
        
         | jph wrote:
         | You're right, Stranger than Fiction is perfect for this, and
         | her narration would be excellent.
         | 
         | "Harold checks his watch then begins to read Hacker News...."
        
       | BlueTemplar wrote:
       | Reminded me of the South Park guys (et al.) take on Deep Fakes
       | from a few years ago, especialy the bit with Michael Caine :
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WfZuNceFDM
       | 
       | (Of course they used a real fake voice for all of them.)
        
       | VikingCoder wrote:
       | I think you shouldn't be able to distribute code / model like
       | this without permission...
       | 
       | ...but...
       | 
       | What if you distributed code that when I ran it, and plugged in
       | each of the Blue Planet / Planet Earth DVDs, it would learn how
       | to do this, with a local model?
        
       | nextworddev wrote:
       | Wonder how he's deciding which frame to feed to judge.py, given
       | it would be tremendously wasteful to call gpt4vision on every
       | frame. Maybe there's some logic to detect meaningful drifts?
        
         | AussieWog93 wrote:
         | In the video, it just captured a frame every 5s. You can see
         | the way he holds up his cup of water for a little too long to
         | make sure it gets captured.
        
         | circuit10 wrote:
         | Looks like it just does it every 5 seconds
        
       | throwawaaarrgh wrote:
       | Take my money
        
       | divbzero wrote:
       | YouTube is developing revenue sharing for AI-generated music [1].
       | I wonder if they will extend revenue sharing to non-musical
       | content like the narration in OP.
       | 
       | [1]: https://www.theverge.com/2023/8/21/23840026/youtube-ai-
       | music...
        
       | LightBug1 wrote:
       | Interesting ... and awful ... it sharpens how I feel about it
       | knowing that the man is nearing the end of his life. This is
       | absolutely not how I want to experience and remember the man.
        
       | dang wrote:
       | Related: https://github.com/cbh123/narrator
        
       | floatrock wrote:
       | Isn't part of the actors' strike about maintaining rights on AI-
       | reproductions of actor likeliness?
       | 
       | This is a brilliant and effective demo of why that's important.
        
       | OnlyMortal wrote:
       | "... and here we have the common Twitter poster. Their attempt to
       | gain favour with their peers and, therefore, popularity with
       | potential mates falls foul once again."
       | 
       | - Attenborough maybe.
        
       | oldshatterhand wrote:
       | I need Werner Herzog to narrate my life!
       | 
       | "Look in the eyez of this nerd. The intenzity of the ztupidity
       | looking at back at you is juzt amazing."
        
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       (page generated 2023-11-15 23:00 UTC)